[lamewing]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Good for you and don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Have fun with the weekly security patches from MS, the adware, spyware and viruses. The constant reboots and worst of all being part of mindless drones. You may have saved a buck or two but now your saddled with a dog of an OS.

I'm amazed at why people ahve to post that they're leaving. Usually its trolls with a post count under 5 but this time its a ripe old member with a post count of 32.

I use Windows on one of our home systems daily...and I must say that you are seriously over playing the "windows card".

1. Weekly security patches with Windows? I don't have weekly patches. Should I prefer the big security patches with a new iteration of OSX...and every update? When I do have a patch...I download it in the backgroudn and poof it is done. Sometime I reboot, sometimes I dont'. Weekly? Come on!

2. A nice firewall and I don't have virii, adware or spyware. I know how my computer works and I take care of it. No Norton or anything on my system, but it runs very well.

3. Constant reboots? My system has been up for over 4 weeks with no issues.

4. Hmmm, no mind for me huh? No brain then as well? At least zombies won't be after me.

5. "Dog of an OS" Once again, you are seriously overplaying this. Windows works very well. It isn't nearly as pretty as OSX, no question, but it isn't the "dog" you claim it to be.

[hickey]

so then when it is legal for machines to dual boot OS', are most of the people here going to get PC boxes?


maybe this should be a poll

[lamewing]

Originally Posted by goMac

You wanted a solid computer so you bought a DELL?

See you back here in a year...

I have to agree with you here. If you want to use a PC...build your own or buy a well-supported boutique computer from a company like Voodoo, Falcon NW, etc (NOT Alienware)

[quiklee]

Apple's becoming the new Sony, huh? . . . . . i hope they learn from their mistakes . . . I'm too invested into Apple . . . .literally!

[Goofas]

Originally Posted by demibob

I find it hard to believe youve had that many problems in just two years. Iv had my ibook for three and it still works like it did the day i brought it. Did you buy them second hand if so from where.

When my eMac power supply burned up after 5 days of being a "switcher", I had to fight for 2 days to get Apple to send me a new eMac not a refurbished one. Then the new one had a big scuff down the right side of it (I suspect a refurb anyway). The combo drive broke after 6 months and the eMac is not user repairable; solution was buy an external drive ( that will ot work with idvd or imovie ) or drag the 80lb. brick to the second floor of the Galleria in Houston and wait 2 weeks for a new drive.
I bought my eMac from Apple online and my iMac from Fry's...not used as you might think.

[Kadman]

Originally Posted by lamewing

I use Windows on one of our home systems daily...and I must say that you are seriously over playing the "windows card".

1. Weekly security patches with Windows? I don't have weekly patches. Should I prefer the big security patches with a new iteration of OSX...and every update? When I do have a patch...I download it in the backgroudn and poof it is done. Sometime I reboot, sometimes I dont'. Weekly? Come on!

2. A nice firewall and I don't have virii, adware or spyware. I know how my computer works and I take care of it. No Norton or anything on my system, but it runs very well.

3. Constant reboots? My system has been up for over 4 weeks with no issues.

4. Hmmm, no mind for me huh? No brain then as well? At least zombies won't be after me.

5. "Dog of an OS" Once again, you are seriously overplaying this. Windows works very well. It isn't nearly as pretty as OSX, no question, but it isn't the "dog" you claim it to be.

Well said! I think some around here are still milking the days of exploits without available protection from the Windows 95 era. These days I see much more similarities between the way OSX and XP handle regular security updates. I haven't seen a virus, spyware program, or other malware on any of our Windows boxes...ever. When my daughter got her first PC at 5, she would occasionally end up with the Yahoo tool bar. This was simply because she was actively clicking on the "Yes" to install button that was presented from one of the kids game sites (I think it was Candystand). I simply instructed her not to answer yes, and I haven't seen it since. This makes me wonder about the intelligence level of some of these whiners. If they aren't bright enough to not install everything they are given an option to install, then maybe it's a just punishment to spend hours removing malware. LOL

[chris v]

Hardware breaks. I'm not excusing Apple, but their warrany service is as good as anybody's, and the odds of component failure aren't any better with any other make of PC out there. By and large, there machines (on average) last years longer than PCs in the field.

[ixus_123]

I use Mac os X on an aging G3 366mhz ibook. I think os X is fantastic & with the bundled apps makes a fantastic computer package I would haprily reccomend to anyone.

I also have a Desktop PC that is a dual boot between Windows XP & Linux (Ubuntu 5.10). I built the PC myself to my needs - basically all I want in a computer is snappy apps & a large display (19" 1280x1024 & greater).

I use the XP partition for games & linux for surfing the internet, sorting my finances with kmymoney, sorting photos with f-spot, touching them up with the gimp, all using a small light but nice looking gui - XFCE

For my needs this is perfect. If money wasn't an object then sure, I'd love a powermac running 2 30" displays but it is and Apple doesn't really offer me what I want in their consumer level desktops - which is also fine.

I do think their laptops are fantastic though. I've always lusted after a powerbook. My iBook has been fantastic - build quality is excellent & it has survived overheating (due to use on mattress), tea being spilt on in more than once, being dropped. The only issue I had was when the yo-yo power adapter caught fire - well started sparking & smouldering. The actual ibook itself has been great & is still in use today.

I want to uprade to another iBook, I don't need speed, all I want is a display of 1280x1024 or greater & that great apple build quality & battery life

[ghporter]

I should point out that all my home desktops are home-built PCs running (for now) XP. When I needed a platform for supporting a bunch of shared drives, I could build a PC with a ton of 'em for not too much money. When my son "needed" to be able to play games, I could build a decent gaming system for (again) not too much money. Right now, I'm at school and using a Dell laptop to type this. I have yet to see a real hardware problem with ANY Dell product-and that includes scores of them at work. I've had ONE PC hardware problem at home-bulged capacitors on a PC Chips motherboard. That's over somewhere around a dozen homebuilt computers, so I think I'm doing pretty well. (I'm still saving pennies for a Mini, but now I'm going to have to save a few more for the new one.)

I should also point out that all my home computers are behind a NAT router and running a software firewall of one sort or another (OS X's on the iBook, Symantec's Client Security on the PCs), plus the PCs are set to automatically install Windows updates as they come out, so they're pretty secure.

This does NOT mean that I'm Bill Gates' lap boy. There's a lot to be complained about with Windows-a whole lot. But it is not the buggy, frequently crashing, inherently virus infested platform that a lot of people here apparently believe it is. Further, I take the same precautions with my wife's iBook that I do with the PCs; it runs Norton AV (I've never seen it even stutter), it has Software Updates active and she updates everything that's applicable every time. Security on ANY platform takes a little dilligence, and getting things set up to protect you, that's all.

[phoenix78]

The overwhelming fundamental TRUTH about any computer system that you buy is that every manufacturer has faulty parts and they very frequently break down. You will never find a brand that does not have users who have had something go bust. that is the reason why you have WARRANTY so that if something does go bust that you are not left in the lurch.

i use my PB17" very happily for a year now(i have had problems with apple before) and i also have a dell desktop which is 2 years old and needed a HD replaced and a dvd drive changed at the same time. lol... who gives a **** that it stuffed up?! i got it changed. me happy, world happy, dell happy (maybe), technician happy....everybody happy

i use both windows and osx and i love both. i get my work done because both systems are fine. about viruses... many viruses are only on systems because too many people are uneducated and dont know how to determine is something is bogus or dodgee looking in an email or some stupid spyware site etc...

aggression (or flaming) on forums is quite common. it is akin to road rage... put some people in a car and they turn into some kind of beast... and forums... some loose control and get angry... my guess at the reasons why is it comes down to being protected by being physically away from others and nobody knows who you are and that makes people drop their inhibitions and cut loose (they can be someone they are not.. like wearing a mask). and in a car... you are enclosed in this metal thing that can drive fast and get away from people... you can mouth off and just drive away after... unless you get the super agro guy who comes out of the car at the stoplights lol...

many people need to take a chill pill... its just a machine lol... its not a cup of coffee!!! i am much more peevish about my coffee tasting better than my pc dying lol... (brasillian is my choice! yummmm think i wil have one now!!)

enjoy yourselves !!!
cheers
robM

[garyj]

I won't get into the Windows vs Mac argument.

But he mentioned that if there was a problem he could easily replace the motherboard on the Dell.

What planet is he from? This argument would make sense if he bought all the parts and put the thing together himself.

Dell is as proprietary as Apple when it comes to motherboards.

[lamewing]

Originally Posted by garyj

But he mentioned that if there was a problem he could easily replace the motherboard on the Dell.

What planet is he from? This argument would make sense if he bought all the parts and put the thing together himself.

Dell is as proprietary as Apple when it comes to motherboards.

He's from Earth.

I will elaborate. If the unit is under warranty you can have Dell send you a new mobo and they will let you replace it yourself. I did this myself. (No I won't buy another Dell as I learned to build my own PC).

Also, if you are using a full sized Dell system, you should be able to replace the mobo with a comparable 3rd party mobo of the same type, ie ATX, etc.

I don't know if those mobos Dell uses are truly proprietary anyway. Mine was a standard Intel mobo. Nothing special or fancy. Very plain-jane and very STABLE. I doubt there is much difference today as Dell just takes components and builds the system. I don't think they design mobos just for their own use.

You cannot do this on a Mac unless you can find a donor machine. Try asking Apple to send you a replacement mobo. HA!

[foo2]

Originally Posted by Goofas

When my eMac power supply burned up after 5 days of being a "switcher", I had to fight for 2 days to get Apple to send me a new eMac not a refurbished one. Then the new one had a big scuff down the right side of it (I suspect a refurb anyway). The combo drive broke after 6 months and the eMac is not user repairable; solution was buy an external drive ( that will ot work with idvd or imovie ) or drag the 80lb. brick to the second floor of the Galleria in Houston and wait 2 weeks for a new drive.
I bought my eMac from Apple online and my iMac from Fry's...not used as you might think.

Agreed on carting it to the Galleria - but surely Apple will send someone to your house? You really have to cart it to the G. store?

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by Goofas

After 2 years of being an Apple user and singing the praises of OSX I'm gone. I have owned 2 apple computers in 2 years and both have had countless hardware issues.

Any individual's experience with reliability will vary. I've had 4 macs in the last 7 years ... one (a DVSE 400 from '99) was given away to a friend and still running. The other 3 are all still functioning perfectly (even my '00 DV iMac which has a 120gb HD plopped in and acts as the house server, web surfing machine in the LR, and RDC monitor "head" for my roommate's PC so he can use Ventrilo while playing FFXI on his PS2). Basically, all my macs have been bulletproof except for a burnt out FW port on the original DVSE that was caused by an external CDRW that claimed to be bus powered but, as it turned out, wasn't (became a "known" tech issue for that external burner).

So, YMMV, but sounds like you just had a run of bad luck.

[24klogos]

Originally Posted by Goofas

After 2 years of being an Apple user and singing the praises of OSX I'm gone. I have owned 2 apple computers in 2 years and both have had countless hardware issues. The latest I have battled is the classic exploding caps in my rev A G5. I decided to buy a new Apple this weekend then thought some more. If I am going to buy an Intel machine...why not just go back to a PC. I bought a Dell XPS 2.8 dual core, 160gb hdd, 1gb ram, dvd burner, media center remote, 128 video, 5 usb's wireless key/mouse, Office 2003, 17'' Ultra sharp monitor, and 2.1 speakers shipped for $1000. Can't beat that with a stick Apple. The best part is if a component "dies" I can fix it myself! I will only miss iphoto.

Dude, If you think the machine you got is going to make life easier, good luck, what you could gain in speed (maybe) and a lower price you have to end up working it in working-time, cause windows just takes longer to get to point A to B, period. so either way, whatever you do... don't anounce it like its some press relase, go ahead buy a Dell, you're not Michael Jackson to be setting a good example for society.

if you wanted to piss all the forum members off in the other hand, great job, if you add all the time all the people here have spent writing you back, you could have 2 or three full days to cope with the extra steps your clunky windows machine will make you take to get to point A.2

[foo2]

Originally Posted by 24klogos

Dude, If you think the machine you got is going to make life easier, good luck, what you could gain in speed (maybe) and a lower price you have to end up working it in working-time, cause windows just takes longer to get to point A to B, period. so either way, whatever you do... don't anounce it like its some press relase, go ahead buy a Dell, you're not Michael Jackson to be setting a good example for society.

if you wanted to piss all the forum members off in the other hand, great job, if you add all the time all the people here have spent writing you back, you could have 2 or three full days to cope with the extra steps your clunky windows machine will make you take to get to point A.2

Why do you think it would take any longer? Does Firefox work differently on the PC compared with the Mac? Does Photoshop? How about MS Word?

[24klogos]

Originally Posted by foo2

Why do you think it would take any longer? Does Firefox work differently on the PC compared with the Mac? Does Photoshop? How about MS Word?

The way you move around, browse through files and are able to combine all the different appz on a workspace makes it hundreds of mouseclicks more efficient and stable... i have used both windows machines for heavy graphic arts and multimedia since 1999, along with macs, and could not really feel the same way about OS9... but with OSX, little things, small diferences in the workflow and integration allow you to save tons of time during crunchtime, in the long-run, it's just the way it is... customizable feautures like exposee, the font management system, the finder and the freedom of spotlight.. i mean, are you being sarcastic? the workflow in OSX for power users is YEARS ahead than on any windows XP environment...

[Kyle Dreaden]

Here's how I see it.

Some people prefer OS X, some people prefer Windows. Hell, some people prefer Linux over both solutions. It's a matter of personal preference, I think. Obviously, I've had trouble with Windows in the past that prompted my switch four years ago (which I've been thrilled with), but some people find Windows to be more practical for their situation.

With that said, I do think that it's an obvious truth that Windows is a higher maintenance OS than OS X.

If they aren't bright enough to not install everything they are given an option to install, then maybe it's a just punishment to spend hours removing malware. LOL

Let's take a moment to realize that not everyone using a computer in today's world is a genius like you, sir. Granted, I'm more than capable of installing the proper preventative software on a PC and maintaining it without problems, but do I want to? No. Some people don't mind, and to those people, good for you. Honestly, if someone is really happy with a PC, then more power to them, less money spent. I, on the other hand, prefer Apple.

But back to my point. Some people are not as enlightened as you, my friend. For those people, a Mac is an outstanding solution. I'll use my own father as an example. He's a brilliant executive for a very large Medical Device company. The man could run circles around top sales strategists, and does on a daily basis. Though, despite his knowledge and wisdom, he is unfortunately not the best with technology. He struggles to understand why his bluetooth headset sometimes won't connect with his Treo 650. He becomes frustrated when his "High Speed DSL" doesn't load a certain (slow) site as quickly as others. He's just not up to speed on technology, and that's okay! There came a point last year where I became fed up with driving over to his place on a weekly basis to fix whatever error he had accidentally caused within his Windows environment. Simple things that most power users know to avoid. Downloading files accidentally, opening attachments, installing every piece of software that is attached to other pieces of software. Things of that nature. I bought him a Mac Mini and gave him a basic tutorial. Within a week, the man was converted. Not because he enjoyed the technical advantages or highly intuitive and user centric interface design, but because the damn thing just worked and he didn't have to worry about clicking the right thing or facing computing doom.

Now, three months later, he's got a new Intel iMac 20" and has not called me for help once. Well, he did call me at one point to brag about how his machine was faster than my G4, but I think that's just because he was excited to have a machine that was less of a burden and more of an advantage to him.

Moral of the story? Some people dig Apple, some people dig Microsoft. Whatever works, do it.

Oh, and one more lesson learned, Some people need to humble themselves to the rest of the world and recognize that 90% of people on this forum are highly advanced computer users which represents less than the majority of computer users in today's world. What works for you may not work for others. So watch your slanted ranting and recognize that most of us here don't really care for self-righteous PC zealots.

We love our Macs. M'kay Sweetie?

[24klogos]

Originally Posted by Kyle Dreaden

Here's how I see it.

Some people prefer OS X, some people prefer Windows. Hell, some people prefer Linux over both solutions. It's a matter of personal preference, I think. Obviously, I've had trouble with Windows in the past that prompted my switch four years ago (which I've been thrilled with), but some people find Windows to be more practical for their situation.

With that said, I do think that it's an obvious truth that Windows is a higher maintenance OS than OS X.



Let's take a moment to realize that not everyone using a computer in today's world is a genius like you, sir. Granted, I'm more than capable of installing the proper preventative software on a PC and maintaining it without problems, but do I want to? No. Some people don't mind, and to those people, good for you. Honestly, if someone is really happy with a PC, then more power to them, less money spent. I, on the other hand, prefer Apple.

But back to my point. Some people are not as enlightened as you, my friend. For those people, a Mac is an outstanding solution. I'll use my own father as an example. He's a brilliant executive for a very large Medical Device company. The man could run circles around top sales strategists, and does on a daily basis. Though, despite his knowledge and wisdom, he is unfortunately not the best with technology. He struggles to understand why his bluetooth headset sometimes won't connect with his Treo 650. He becomes frustrated when his "High Speed DSL" doesn't load a certain (slow) site as quickly as others. He's just not up to speed on technology, and that's okay! There came a point last year where I became fed up with driving over to his place on a weekly basis to fix whatever error he had accidentally caused within his Windows environment. Simple things that most power users know to avoid. Downloading files accidentally, opening attachments, installing every piece of software that is attached to other pieces of software. Things of that nature. I bought him a Mac Mini and gave him a basic tutorial. Within a week, the man was converted. Not because he enjoyed the technical advantages or highly intuitive and user centric interface design, but because the damn thing just worked and he didn't have to worry about clicking the right thing or facing computing doom.

Now, three months later, he's got a new Intel iMac 20" and has not called me for help once. Well, he did call me at one point to brag about how his G5 was faster than my G4, but I think that's just because he was excited to have a machine that was less of a burden and more of an advantage to him.

Moral of the story? Some people dig Apple, some people dig Microsoft. Whatever works, do it.

Oh, and one more lesson learned, Some people need to humble themselves to the rest of the world and recognize that 90% of people on this forum are highly advanced computer users which represents less than the majority of computer users in today's world. What works for you may not work for others. So watch your slanted ranting and recognize that most of us here don't really care for self-righteous PC zealots.

We love our Macs. M'kay Sweetie?

WHAT?

[Kyle Dreaden]

I'm sorry, was there a question about my post?

[Kyle Dreaden]

Oh, I wasn't replying directly to you, 24klogos. Sorry about that!

[foo2]

Originally Posted by 24klogos

The way you move around, browse through files and are able to combine all the different appz on a workspace makes it hundreds of mouseclicks more efficient and stable... i have used both windows machines for heavy graphic arts and multimedia since 1999, along with macs, and could not really feel the same way about OS9... but with OSX, little things, small diferences in the workflow and integration allow you to save tons of time during crunchtime, in the long-run, it's just the way it is... customizable feautures like exposee, the font management system, the finder and the freedom of spotlight.. i mean, are you being sarcastic? the workflow in OSX for power users is YEARS ahead than on any windows XP environment...

I'm not being sarcastic. WIth the advent of OS X, the two environments are now very, very similar for many, many things. Some people prefer certain things and not others.

Bear in mind that many features available in the environments can be downloaded and installed in the other environment. They're not nearly as different as they once were.

[jwoods]

Yeah, but OS X still has alot of advantages. I could say "it ain't windows" and many would agree.


For me....I just like it better. I have to use windows at work for the most part, and coming home to OS X is a welcome change. Then again, I've used XP as a gaming platform on my PC. When I wanted to do something semi-serious....I booted into Linux.

To each his own.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by garyj

I won't get into the Windows vs Mac argument.

But he mentioned that if there was a problem he could easily replace the motherboard on the Dell.

What planet is he from? This argument would make sense if he bought all the parts and put the thing together himself.

Dell is as proprietary as Apple when it comes to motherboards.

You are correct, but I got the impression he was talking about replacing individual components on the motherboard. Not likely, as I pointed out in my first response here.

Dell has good reason to use those proprietary boards; those really cool cases are one. But that makes the user a prisoner of that particular case and motherboard combination-negating the hardware flexibility advantage of the PC platform. If you go with Dell, you have to stay with them or give up the whole computer when the motherboard/CPU combination is no longer worthwhile.

[lamewing]

Originally Posted by ghporter

You are correct, but I got the impression he was talking about replacing individual components on the motherboard. Not likely, as I pointed out in my first response here.

Dell has good reason to use those proprietary boards; those really cool cases are one. But that makes the user a prisoner of that particular case and motherboard combination-negating the hardware flexibility advantage of the PC platform. If you go with Dell, you have to stay with them or give up the whole computer when the motherboard/CPU combination is no longer worthwhile.

I don't think so. My last dell has a standard Intel mobo. The case was standard on the inside and allowed me to place an Asus mobo in to replace the aging original mobo. There large cases are standard ATX and will fit standard ATX mobos.

Sure, their smaller cases might be proprietary or are they mini-atx compliant? I will have to research that. Nonetheless, why are so many folks here adamant about slamming Dell? I don't get it. My wife has used two Dell laptops (inspiron models) that were given to her by Texas Tech. Yes, they are ugly. Yes they are as solid as some other models. Don't say Apple is the most solid laptop...try using a Panasonic Toughbook! But they have never given her a single problem. My old Dell never gave me a problem either.

[24klogos]

Originally Posted by foo2

I'm not being sarcastic. WIth the advent of OS X, the two environments are now very, very similar for many, many things. Some people prefer certain things and not others.

Bear in mind that many features available in the environments can be downloaded and installed in the other environment. They're not nearly as different as they once were.

I dont think so, even adding plug-ins that will make your Win machine try to behave in such ways doesn't match the efficiency and workflow you can get with OSX. face it, i have used both OS's for the same kind of work, if i am on crunchtime and need to get something done fast, hands down OSX will get me there. yeah, some people prefer windows and would not even dare to try OSX, thats fine with me really, but whats right is right and OSX simply runs circels areound the most "pimped-out" XP.

[foo2]

Originally Posted by 24klogos

I dont think so, even adding plug-ins that will make your Win machine try to behave in such ways doesn't match the efficiency and workflow you can get with OSX. face it, i have used both OS's for the same kind of work, if i am on crunchtime and need to get something done fast, hands down OSX will get me there. yeah, some people prefer windows and would not even dare to try OSX, thats fine with me really, but whats right is right and OSX simply runs circels areound the most "pimped-out" XP.

Can you describe the workflow and efficiency you speak of?

[foo2]

Originally Posted by 24klogos

I dont think so, even adding plug-ins that will make your Win machine try to behave in such ways doesn't match the efficiency and workflow you can get with OSX. face it, i have used both OS's for the same kind of work, if i am on crunchtime and need to get something done fast, hands down OSX will get me there. yeah, some people prefer windows and would not even dare to try OSX, thats fine with me really, but whats right is right and OSX simply runs circels areound the most "pimped-out" XP.

Can you describe the workflow and efficiency you speak of?

[24klogos]

man, talking about efficiency, if i start telling you all the things that make me, at least prefer the workflow in OSX i would be re-writing all the stuff i have already said, and that would be repeating steps, sort of like working on a Windows platform.

Plus, this post is about that kid that went and bought a Dell, so if you are defending windows or are just wanting me to explain in detail, step by step why OSX is more efficient... sorry, it aint gonna happen, call me what you will, but i dont have time for that... go to http://www.apple.com/macosx/ to investigate.

If you are a cross platform user like i am, that bounces from 200mb files from appz, working with video, crunching and moving large animation files and working with libraries on your projects with thousands of items... OSX is just the best way to get around, thats the most i can tell you, chances are if you're not a power user you wouldnt understand.

[foo2]

Originally Posted by 24klogos

man, talking about efficiency, if i start telling you all the things that make me, at least prefer the workflow in OSX i would be re-writing all the stuff i have already said, and that would be repeating steps, sort of like working on a Windows platform.

Plus, this post is about that kid that went and bought a Dell, so if you are defending windows or are just wanting me to explain in detail, step by step why OSX is more efficient... sorry, it aint gonna happen, call me what you will, but i dont have time for that... go to http://www.apple.com/macosx/ to investigate.

If you are a cross platform user like i am, that bounces from 200mb files from appz, working with video, crunching and moving large animation files and working with libraries on your projects with thousands of items... OSX is just the best way to get around, thats the most i can tell you, chances are if you're not a power user you wouldnt understand.

I am a power user, and I prefer Windows for speed & flexibility, but I'm freely willing to concede that others may work differently...how about you?

[24klogos]

in that case, i'm glad windows works for you.
peace

[Tuishimi]

Originally Posted by lamewing

He's from Earth.

I will elaborate. If the unit is under warranty you can have Dell send you a new mobo and they will let you replace it yourself. I did this myself. (No I won't buy another Dell as I learned to build my own PC).

...

You cannot do this on a Mac unless you can find a donor machine. Try asking Apple to send you a replacement mobo. HA!

You are absolutely WRONG about that not getting a replacement. When my G5 iMac rev A died, the techy said "Are you comfortable with replacing it yourself?" And I said yes, he fed-ex'ed it out that day. I replaced it and sent back the old one. That was it.

[meelk]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Good for you and don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Have fun with the weekly security patches from MS, the adware, spyware and viruses. The constant reboots and worst of all being part of mindless drones. You may have saved a buck or two but now your saddled with a dog of an OS.

I'm amazed at why people ahve to post that they're leaving. Usually its trolls with a post count under 5 but this time its a ripe old member with a post count of 32.

bitter much?

[MrNo]

Why do Mac users get upset if some kid says they are going back to Windows?
It seems some of us are very limited ...

[meelk]

Originally Posted by MrNo

Why do Mac users get upset if some kid says they are going back to Windows?
It seems some of us are very limited ...

I find it hilarious. Talk about childish.

[LagunaSol]

Originally Posted by MrNo

Why do Mac users get upset if some kid says they are going back to Windows?
It seems some of us are very limited ...

Go to any forum on the Web on any product with a loyal following (and it's loyal followings that make Web forums possible, no?) and post a comment about your abnormally poor experience with the product and how you're switching to something else and see what people say.

This is hardly a phenomenon limited to Mac users.

[packetattack]

As someone who over 25 years of experience in IT and remembers well paper tape to 4K RAM chips, AST cards, Hercules cards, monochrome graphics, Sprites, OS2, Windows 1.0, 2,3.0,3.1,3.5, 4.0,95, ME, XP,etc..etc..etc, I think I have the right and the background to offer a few comments. This also goes with my degree which is in fact, in Network Design.

The architecture of Windows is flawed from the getgo. It was fine in it's day, but the core of Windows is old in computer time and it shows. MS is fighting a losing battle trying to "fix" it and they know it, hence the redesign for Vista. To MS's credit and they do deserve some credit, before Windows, there was not cut and paste between applications for example, there were half a dozen front ends such as GEM and QuarterDeck. So MS has bought some cool items to the table. Vista is bringing more cool items to the table and yes, they "borrowed" some from OSX. Imatation is the sincerest form of flattery

Now, if you actually read and study the history of Steve Jobs, you will find out that while Billy was still struggling with his earliest versions of Windows, JObs had NEXT which was light years ahead of WIndows. But greed and ego got in the way and Steve got his butt handed to himself while Billy got the world.

So now, which was better? NEXT was but NEXT was passed over so Windows became the better OS for a varity of reasons beyond the normal techie reasons. Move the clock up, Raposdy and NEXT get merged, Steve Jobs takes over Apple and OSX is born after mating NEXT with BSD. WIndows is still struggling and that rolls up to today. Which is better? Well, better depends on one's point of view which is made up of more than just being a geek. OSX is nice, it's stable, it works but it's limited to Apple hardware. WIndows is pretty too or can be, mostly works but has issues being as aged as it is but runs on virtually any intel platform. Better? Could be.. and is in certain circumstances.

Do I run Windows? Yes I do and it's on over 60 Dell servers and over 500 desktops. Does Dell have problems? yes they do. I also use three types of Macs for my own use. DO they have problems, yes, they do and one needed to be rebuilt because OSX is damn touchy about RAM. I use both OS systems for the specific need of the moment. In fact, this missive is being written on a Dell laptop. Why? because I'm laxy to get my iBook out of it's bag

If someone wants to run Windows, fine, let them. It's their choice and it *may* be the best choice for them. But, to say that "I'm running windows on Intel because of QA issues with apple" is a copout. I had over 100 motherboards replaced due to faulty caps and i posted the story to why they are faulty someone else on the boards, it's not Apple's problem, it was the vendor of the electroylitic caps and it's been well documented by the IEEE and others. When you do switch back to Windows, remember as you are running reg cleaning tools, spyware tools, AV tools, defrag tools etc just to keep WIndows running that it's like buying an old car. They work and you can have emotional attachment to them but they take alot of work to keep them running. Nothing is perfect and that includes Apple.

I just read that a more realistic re-do of the OSX security test made it over 30 hours without compromise. Windows can not do that without alot of work and some breakage of parts needed for normal day to day operations. Does this make OSX better? In come circumstances. Windows is easier to support and find support for. Does this make it superior to OSX? At times, yes. And the list goes on.

So all of the posturing over which is better is just alot of chest thumping and ego. We would be better served if all that effort went into something productive instead of hot air.

[foo2]

Originally Posted by packetattack

As someone who over 25 years of experience in IT and remembers well paper tape to 4K RAM chips, AST cards, Hercules cards, monochrome graphics, Sprites, OS2, Windows 1.0, 2,3.0,3.1,3.5, 4.0,95, ME, XP,etc..etc..etc, I think I have the right and the background to offer a few comments. This also goes with my degree which is in fact, in Network Design.

The architecture of Windows is flawed from the getgo. It was fine in it's day, but the core
of Windows is old in computer time and it shows. MS is fighting a losing battle trying to

You realize that Windows 3.1 and Windows NT/2000/XP have almost nothing in common save the GUI and the fact that both run on Intel CPUs, right? Win32 and Win16 are completely different OSs. To even compare the two, as you do later, is silly. Under the hood, they're radically different. Win3.1 is DOS-based. WinNT and up are from Dave Cutler's mind, and his inspiration was DEC's VMS.

I just read that a more realistic re-do of the OSX security test made it over 30 hours without compromise. Windows can not do that without alot of work and some breakage of parts needed for normal day to day operations.

That's not correct. www.microsoft.com (and many other massive sites) have been running on NT4/2000/2003 technology for a decade now, or more, and it has been stable and unhacked. What you mean to say is that any "UNPATCHED" OS is unsafe, and one can say that about any OS, Mac or Windows or generic Unix.

No matter what OS you run, it's crucial to get your OS updates installed and done. The fact that Apple doesn't support an OS with critical updates when it's just a few years old (10.0, 10.1, 10.2) is disturbing to me - so many easy exploits if someone wanted to look and try....

[F*ckDell]

OS this... OS that... all I know is that I've used Dell since I can remember. And when the new Intel Power Towers come out, you'll never see my use a Dell or a PC ever again. I'm tired of all the extra crap you get with name brand computers. Nothing ever works right, and if something does work right, goodluck trying to get it work a second time! Dell sucks... 3,000 on a Laptop and nothing but problems. Sent it to Dell countless times and just new problems pop up once it returns. I say F*ck Dell and F*ck PCs... can't wait to get my first Apple...

[steve666]

Apples hardware has always been ridiculously overpriced for whats in it, but they used to be reliable. If its true that they are building computers on mainland China than that is truly scary. As someone who sells computers and peripherals, everything i sell thats made in China is garbage with a capital G. Products made in China are only made there because its cheap to build it there-you can basically forget about quality control.
Is the new Mini made in China? If it is, forget about it. It's bad enough Apple cheaped out and put in integrated graphics.
The iMac has plenty of goodies in it to make it worth its price, even though its not upgradeable, but the new Mini just screams 'rip-off' to me. Small Hard Drive, crappy chip (solo), integrated graphics, no keyboard and mouse, no modem, inadequate system RAM (you're not really getting 512 Mb RAM because of the IG), and for $599? Come on.

However, if you're going to go the PC route, buy an HP over a Dell. Dell just sucks right now.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by steve666

Apples hardware has always been ridiculously overpriced for whats in it, but they used to be reliable. If its true that they are building computers on mainland China than that is truly scary. As someone who sells computers and peripherals, everything i sell thats made in China is garbage with a capital G. Products made in China are only made there because its cheap to build it there-you can basically forget about quality control.
Is the new Mini made in China? If it is, forget about it. It's bad enough Apple cheaped out and put in integrated graphics.

All of Apple's hardware products (computers and iPods) have been outsourced to Asian ODMs (Asustek, Compal, Inventek, Quanta, etc.) for 5 years or so.

[packetattack]

Originally Posted by foo2

You realize that Windows 3.1 and Windows NT/2000/XP have almost nothing in common save the GUI and the fact that both run on Intel CPUs, right? Win32 and Win16 are completely different OSs. To even compare the two, as you do later, is silly. Under the hood, they're radically different. Win3.1 is DOS-based. WinNT and up are from Dave Cutler's mind, and his inspiration was DEC's VMS.



That's not correct. www.microsoft.com (and many other massive sites) have been running on NT4/2000/2003 technology for a decade now, or more, and it has been stable and unhacked. What you mean to say is that any "UNPATCHED" OS is unsafe, and one can say that about any OS, Mac or Windows or generic Unix.

No matter what OS you run, it's crucial to get your OS updates installed and done. The fact that Apple doesn't support an OS with critical updates when it's just a few years old (10.0, 10.1, 10.2) is disturbing to me - so many easy exploits if someone wanted to look and try....

lets take this one item at a time. The overlaying architecture of Windows has been (and is changing) is to allow legacy support. This crippled Microsoft from providing a secure platform without a termendous amount of work. In order for legacy stuff to work, it has to work the same way as before complete with problems. So while providing legacy support, unintentional holes were introduced. Even without this issue, MS has had core faults in their desig. Witness the last go around of exploits using how images are rendered. It impacted virtually all recent versions of windows due in part to reuse of code. Which in of itself is not a bad idea if the code works right but when the code is bad, it can be devestating.

Microsoft's own site has not be "unhacked" as you claim, they were hit by slammer just as many of us were. In fact, I remember a bit of a debacle when it was discovered a few years back that MS was using Linux on some of their websites instead of IIS including one site bashing Linux. Now there was an irony. More than a few folks had a hoot over that one.

If were just a case of "patching" as you described, then MS would have no problem in getting their federal certifications for selling the govt. secure OS systems for such things as Navy aircraft carriers and crypto systems. But, it is not just patching, you must disable services, patch and specially configure subsystems like IIS to be hardened. They are certified but the configuration used is very difficult to use in the real world with real world applications. It's too locked down.

If you read my first response carefully, I never claimed that Windows OR OSX was the endall OS, patched or otherwise. They each have their place and each can be the "right" system. But, OSX does have some advantages over Windows that can not be casually overlooked and it has some disadvantages that also can not be overlooked.

I did point out that changing your OS based on a percieved lack of QA or not was silly or as I said, a copout. Neither system is perfect and you must look at the entire package and decide if it fits your needs, the business needs if any, if you can support it and overall costing. Pray that Apple never takes up the same "Software assurance" model that MS uses.

[Tuishimi]

Originally Posted by steve666

Apples hardware has always been ridiculously overpriced for whats in it, but they used to be reliable. If its true that they are building computers on mainland China than that is truly scary. As someone who sells computers and peripherals, everything i sell thats made in China is garbage with a capital G. Products made in China are only made there because its cheap to build it there-you can basically forget about quality control.

Seriously?

[packetattack]

Originally Posted by Tuishimi

Seriously?

Yeah.. I think he is serious. But he is showing his lack of global knowledge by these comments. I wonder if he understands that a vast number of electronic chips while designed here in the states are actually manufactured in China and Taiwan. Only a few chips are made here in the states and they tend to the very complicated chips. The plain old chips (now thats an understatement) can be made almost anywhere but China does it well and cheaply. Not to mention parts like diodes, resistors, capacitors, wiring harnesses etc are made equally cheap overseas and meet decent QA standards. Do you really think that all the parts in your Ford or Chevy are made here is the US? if so, you are seriously deluding yourself.

On my last Ford Ranger, the body panels were pressed in China, the engine was German, the transmission come from Mexico and the truck was mostly assembled here in the states.



Geographic location does not equate to garage QA, it relates to a price point that someone is trying to hit and the skill levels and material used.

[ghporter]

Macs have been on the high end since they came out. This is absolutely true. And part of that has been the fact that there is a much smaller market for Macs, and since they use a lot of proprietary hardware, those hardware parts don't come down in price due to high volume.

Once Apple started using standard parts (PCI cards, RAM, IDE (and now SATA) drives, etc.) the prices DID come down, just not very much. You still have to buy by the container-load (those 40-foot containers!) to realize any discount when buying parts in bulk.

"F*ck Dell," aside from your extremely unpleasant user name, you have shown in your above post that you are anything but an informed consumer. You are also not an experienced or even well informed computer user. One reason high volume computer makers manage to provide well-equipped computers with a lot of extra bells and whistles for relatively low prices is that they get paid by software makers to include things like "trial versions" of the software and the like, NONE of which are needed to run the computer. There was a lot of unnecessary stuff included on our iBook too, but it's easy to dump that stuff on a Mac - easier than on a Windows box, but not that much easier.

An experienced computer user often decides "there's too much crap preinstalled," and rebuilds the drive (which takes a couple of hours, even on a Windows machine) to suit his or her tastes. No biggie. Besides, Dell doesn't set things up to suit users, they set them up to suit ease of manufacture.

I predict you will be a less-than-satisfied Mac user when your "dream machine" Mac comes out, simply because so far you haven't tried to learn much more than how to turn on a computer.

To All: Negativity is unnecessary and counterproductive. As Mr.NO said, it's pretty dumb to think of being a Mac user as membership in an exclusive club, and then agonize over someone saying they're going to buy a Windows machine. That entire issue is so completely self-contradictory it isn't even funny. Or maybe it's hypocritical... Either way, it's dumb.

[jwoods]

Thank you.

As I said earlier, I have never understood why people think it matters to others what kind of computer they buy. If you have a Mac and have decided to move on to a PC using windows....more power to you. It's your money, do what you want to with it.

[F*ckDell]

Has anyone heard or read about HP buying out Dell? A little bird told me they heard that on TV, but I havn't seen or heard anything of that. Any ideas peeeeople?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by F*ckDell

Has anyone heard or read about HP buying out Dell? A little bird told me they heard that on TV, but I havn't seen or heard anything of that. Any ideas peeeeople?

Your little bird is smoking crack. HP cannot afford Dell, and it would be counter to their business philosophy to acquire yet another computer company. Besides, they did such a lousy job of acquiring Compaq that they fired their CEO-Carly Fiorina had some really good things going for HP, but the shareholders thought first they should buy a truly crappy company (you probably have no idea how crappy Compaq computers were) and then blaming Carly for the public not beating a path to their door. These stockholders appear to also be smoking crack from their behavior...

Anyway, don't subscribe to the Wall Street Journal just to read all about this supposed issue. It's not going to happen.

[imitchellg5]

Wow have fun with windOZe and mikro$opht junk

[steve666]

Originally Posted by packetattack

Yeah.. I think he is serious. But he is showing his lack of global knowledge by these comments. I wonder if he understands that a vast number of electronic chips while designed here in the states are actually manufactured in China and Taiwan. Only a few chips are made here in the states and they tend to the very complicated chips. The plain old chips (now thats an understatement) can be made almost anywhere but China does it well and cheaply. Not to mention parts like diodes, resistors, capacitors, wiring harnesses etc are made equally cheap overseas and meet decent QA standards. Do you really think that all the parts in your Ford or Chevy are made here is the US? if so, you are seriously deluding yourself.

On my last Ford Ranger, the body panels were pressed in China, the engine was German, the transmission come from Mexico and the truck was mostly assembled here in the states.



Geographic location does not equate to garage QA, it relates to a price point that someone is trying to hit and the skill levels and material used.

I was referring to mainland China, not Taiwan which is a fully industrialized country that doesn't employ child and slave labor.
About QC, companies produce products in China because they pay labor beans. Cheap cheap cheap. They don;t do it because of an educated labor force. Its cheap. The lowest common denominator. Products are designed to be cheap and break within a year or two. How many people own 10-15 yr old HP Printers for example? Plenty. How many people will still be using, say an HP 5610 AIO Printer 10 years from now? 6 years from now? None.
Products are designed to be cheap and throwaway. First Mexico was the place to be, then China opened up and its labor is even cheaper so manufacturing went there. Quality control is simply not an issue for companies and it shows in the lack of quality in electronics.