[wingdo]

I have this long history (dating back to the 5300) of buying a new laptop just before a new one gets released. It is not how I intend to do it, Apple just has it in for me.

Anyway, My PowerBook is getting quite long in the tooth and it is time to get a replacement. I am reading the usual complaints about new MBP's and I really do not see any major issues, my Book can cook my dinner if I play WoW long enough so heat isn't a problem.

The question is, do I buy now? Do I wait for a Memron book? Do I wait for the Santa Rosa chipset after that? Do I wait for the next generation CPU after Memron? It is a never ending cycle of when to buy. So do I buy now, or hold off for another month or two or six?

[ghporter]

Merom Macs are not going to be coming out any time soon. And my two-week-old MacBook Pro isn't even that hot... I mean it's wonderful and all that, but it doesn't burn me! So anyway, go for it before your PB dies a horrible death just when you need it most!

[wingdo]

Why are Memrons taking so long to come out? I just placed another order this week for 5 more Dell Laptops with Core 2 Duo chips and they have already arrived. I cannot really judge these laptops against our Core Duo order as there is a large MHz difference between the two as well so of course the Memron laptops are quite a bit faster.

[Eriamjh]

If you keep waiting, you will never have a computer. So buy JUST after an upgrade and be happy. Something better is always around the corner and it is NEVER as fast as all the benchmarks or hype lead you to believe.

[Macfreak7]

If you can wait, wait at least until jan. If you NEED a new puter then get it now. I'm waiting cause i don't absolutely need a new one right now.

here's more reason to perhaps wait..

[thiagofll]

It is almost confirmed that the MacBook Pro will be released in November or even before there. I am guessing Oct. 31st....Here's the link:

Core 2 Duo MacBook and MacBook Pro due this November? - Engadget

[rhashem]

Originally Posted by wingdo 

I have this long history (dating back to the 5300) of buying a new laptop just before a new one gets released. It is not how I intend to do it, Apple just has it in for me.

Apple's product cycles really aren't that hard to predict Especially now on Intel, whose CPUs schedules are announced months in advance.

Now would not be a great time to buy an MBP, unless you really need it. Core 2 will definitely be arriving sooner rather than later. If you buy one right after the Merom models are released, you should be got for six-nine months given Apple's historical behavior.

[webmonkie]

If you are waiting on a new product that is coming out next week/month you should wait. But if you are waiting on something that might come out in the next year, I say you buy now.

[Patcarla]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Merom Macs are not going to be coming out any time soon.

How do you know that?

[Javizun]

I say get wahts out now-jobs said something about the case design and how perfect it is that he doesnt know how t ochange it-so a new design might not be coming out anytime soon.

reports all over the internet have mentioned that core duo 2 only shows a 8% increase in performance-heat issue is not solved with merom-so why not get a macbook pro now?
a merom will be no diffrent-how extensive is your computer usage that you believe you will actually see the performance gain?

i have used a 2.16 & 2.0 both are fast even the 1.83 is extremely fast when you have ram in it.
dont procrastinate a purchase the only attractive thing about the core duo 2 is that the name makes the core duo seem old and that was part of intel whole naming scheme.

core duo & core duo 2? dont fall for clever naming and marketing look at the specs. It's all i nteh numbers man not the name

[phazedowt]

Originally Posted by Javizun 

I say get wahts out now-jobs said something about the case design and how perfect it is that he doesnt know how t ochange it-so a new design might not be coming out anytime soon.

reports all over the internet have mentioned that core duo 2 only shows a 8% increase in performance-heat issue is not solved with merom-so why not get a macbook pro now?
a merom will be no diffrent-how extensive is your computer usage that you believe you will actually see the performance gain?

i have used a 2.16 & 2.0 both are fast even the 1.83 is extremely fast when you have ram in it.
dont procrastinate a purchase the only attractive thing about the core duo 2 is that the name makes the core duo seem old and that was part of intel whole naming scheme.

core duo & core duo 2? dont fall for clever naming and marketing look at the specs. It's all i nteh numbers man not the name

Well.. technically, Core 2 is a new architecture-- the "Core Architecture" (which unifies Intel's desktop and laptop lines, adds 64-bit instructions across the board, etc.) while the individual chips branded as "Core" (confusingly enough) were an incremental improvement on the already existing Pentium M. Less than a year in and the "Core" brand is already as confusing as the "Pentium" brand (5th gen: "Pentium", 6th gen: "Pentium Pro", "Pentium 2" and "Pentium 3", 7th gen: "Pentium 4").

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Patcarla 

How do you know that?

Mainly because if they were, they'd be out by now to compete with the few Merom-based PC laptops. Merom's been out since late July, so there's been ample time for them to have been built into a Mac laptop if that was going to happen. And there aren't any major events on the calendar until "holiday time," which isn't typically a big Apple product announcement time. Steve might slip in a "silent upgrade" on us, but it's not likely to be a major processor change because you get a lot more marketing mileage out of those. And besides, Merom isn't that big a step beyond the current Core Duo processors. The next step, the Penryn, is on a process size that's about 30% smaller than the current Merom, with attendant reductions in power requirements and heat generation that go with smaller process sizes; I think that Penryn is a more likely candidate for the next big Mac laptop upgrade than a Merom.

Of course I could be wong and Steve could come on the TV tomorrow with a whole new line of Merom-based laptops. I just don't think it's likely.

[Javizun]

true 64bit is added-but is it woth the hype now? how many application are out there 64 bit?
i know proofing the future is the best thing-but what intel doesnt tell you is that when 64 bit does come out there might be something else needed besides the 64bit support that your computer doesnt have.

what i mean is whith every chip theres always something minuscule to out do the previous
chip to better their sales is part of business. The core duo now will be able to run both
leopard and vista so your already future safe.

if the merom indicated a significant improvement all aspect sacross the architecture, then i would think about considering the merom line. But till then maybe not another 4 years will 64 bit will start emerging and it may be longer.

i jsut dont see the wait for 64 bit, 8% performance gain. I mean analyze what their offering you with the merom and with the core duo...

i know if i was intel i will hype the **** out of every product **** i will dog my own product so that people flock to get the .165mhz increase-& 64 bit that will most likely require something besides the support. It has happened in computers before where they claim it supports it but when you want to install it "SORRY YOUR COMPUTER IS MISSING A MAJOR COMPONENT TO BE ABKLE TO RUN THE SOFTWARE.

[tracheopterix]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Mainly because if they were, they'd be out by now to compete with the few Merom-based PC laptops. Merom's been out since late July, so there's been ample time for them to have been built into a Mac laptop if that was going to happen. And there aren't any major events on the calendar until "holiday time," which isn't typically a big Apple product announcement time. Steve might slip in a "silent upgrade" on us, but it's not likely to be a major processor change because you get a lot more marketing mileage out of those . . .

I disagree. At this point it would be disadvantageous for Apple to make a big deal of Merom since they are late to the table. If they are going to update to Merom before the holidays and without a major case revision it will be silent. That seems to be the most likely scenario: a quiet update to C2D for the MBPs in the next 4 weeks or so before Thanksgiving. All of the reports (or rumors) indicate this.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by tracheopterix 

All of the reports (or rumors) indicate this.

I have taken the position that "all the reports/rumors", having been so wrong so many times since the move to Intel processors, are (to put it nicely) lacking in credibility. My theories are my own, and not based on "insider" information or analysis of analysts analyses or even reading tea leaves. To me it just doesn't make sense to change to a processor that doesn't bump performance up that much when the next version is due relatively soon, and especially since Apple has a history of a relatively slow upgrade schedule.

[wingdo]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

and especially since Apple has a history of a relatively slow upgrade schedule.

My biggest hope when Apple moved to Intel was the idea that we would no longer be on the once every 9-12 month upgrade cycle. I was really looking forward to the idea of a basic never ending CPU upgrades like all the other PC manufacturers have. I have to deal with Windows PCs at work and the one thing I do like about them is the never ending cycle of always getting better CPUs. It has not transferred to Macs. It seems to be the same old once a year upgrade.

[atc ben]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I have taken the position that "all the reports/rumors", having been so wrong so many times since the move to Intel processors, are (to put it nicely) lacking in credibility. My theories are my own, and not based on "insider" information or analysis of analysts analyses or even reading tea leaves. To me it just doesn't make sense to change to a processor that doesn't bump performance up that much when the next version is due relatively soon, and especially since Apple has a history of a relatively slow upgrade schedule.

I tend to agree with you. I don't think they're planning a Merom update in the MBPs any time soon. The ONLY other reason I can think of, as to why Apple hasn't upgraded the MBPs with C2D, is that they are taking this opportunity to engineer a case redesign or something. And I think the chances of an updated case before the holidays are slim with no major Apple events scheduled. Maybe at MacWorld. I kinda hope I'm wrong, but I've waited this long. I might as well wait until January.

On the upside, we got yet another color for the iPod Nano. We needed that like a hole in the head. That being said, I'll probably order one for my wife.

[giggs11]

Originally Posted by thiagofll 

It is almost confirmed that the MacBook Pro will be released in November or even before there. I am guessing Oct. 31st....Here's the link:

Core 2 Duo MacBook and MacBook Pro due this November? - Engadget

"Almost confirmed" ... like the other twenty articles we've seen that were pretty much the same.

The answer is always going to be the same. If you need it now, get it. If you can wait, wait. I'm doing the latter, because I'm in no rush and will probably wait for Leopard anyways.

[tracheopterix]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I have taken the position that "all the reports/rumors", having been so wrong so many times since the move to Intel processors, are (to put it nicely) lacking in credibility. My theories are my own, and not based on "insider" information or analysis of analysts analyses or even reading tea leaves. To me it just doesn't make sense to change to a processor that doesn't bump performance up that much when the next version is due relatively soon, and especially since Apple has a history of a relatively slow upgrade schedule.

Sure, I hear what you're saying. The rumors are notoriously wrong, and all any of us are doing is speculating. I've read a thousand rationales for many perspectives on this issue and I keep coming back to the same question: why wouldn't apple update to C2D? Sure, there are some answers to this, but none of them hold water for me--I'm sure Apple could put these chips out anytime they wanted to. The reasons I'm betting on a release before the holidays are 1) buyers need a reason to go MBP over MB, 2) the historical data of Apple update timing, 3) there is no reason to delay CD2 for a new case; the case update would totally outshine a meager chip bump, and 4) most importantly: Santa Rosa is not coming soon.

Santa Rosa, the next version of Merom, is forcast for March, or April 2007 (see here, here, and here). In all likelyhood it will be later than that. So if Apple doesn't bump the MBP line before then they will go at least 14 months without a speed bump (since Feb 14th 2006, link).

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by wingdo 

My biggest hope when Apple moved to Intel was the idea that we would no longer be on the once every 9-12 month upgrade cycle. I was really looking forward to the idea of a basic never ending CPU upgrades like all the other PC manufacturers have. I have to deal with Windows PCs at work and the one thing I do like about them is the never ending cycle of always getting better CPUs. It has not transferred to Macs. It seems to be the same old once a year upgrade.

Always getting "better" CPUs does not mean real improvements, at least not all the time. And it's FRUSTRATING to wind up with the last laptop machine in one configuration when the newer configuration is slightly faster and better but all the parts are non-interchangable (yes, this has happened to me!). With a more well-thought out upgrade schedule, there's a larger pool of machines for each model, so the user has a better chance of being able to get replacement parts and internecine upgrades.

Stepwise speed increases aren't the issue they were only a few years ago because the technology "under the hood" is at a point where pure CPU power is not the driving factor in overall speed. You can often put two PCs next to each other and not see or feel any difference, in spite of them having radically different processor speeds. Put a 3.0GHz machine next to a 2.0GHz machine, and you and I won't notice any performance difference in 99% of what the machines do because they are both limited by bottlenecks in data flow to/from hard drives and memory.

I can see other improvements coming bit by bit though; eSATA ports, faster drives as stock parts, and things like that can keep the "between upgrades" models in the public eye.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Merom Macs are not going to be coming out any time soon...

I 100% disagree; too bad we cannot wager this issue. MBPs are 9 months old now, and as a consequence of v1 status lame in important aspects like mass storage, Superdrives, FW800, etc. Intel's road map is clear, there is zero technology to performing a basic upgrade and Merom PC laptops have already been announced.

The only reason Apple would go into this holiday season with only the existing substandard MBPs is if the chips are not available. Indeed there are some rumors to that effect, but that is not the reason cited for "Merom Macs are not going to be coming out any time soon..."

It is cool that we will see who is right/wrong soon enough! :-)

-Allen Wicks

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I 100% disagree; too bad we cannot wager this issue.

You make some interesting points, some of which I agree with. I think that MBPs are actually at a v1.5 stage because they had such problems with fans, heat and sound, which HAVE been addressed and mostly fixed. The storage issues aren't that big a deal either because it's no trouble to load up the assembly line with bigger drives whenever-and adding storage is not really linked to processor power.

Firewire 800, on the other hand, is something I think SHOULD be addressed on ALL MBPs; why not make that single firewire port on the 15" machines FW800?

But I still don't think that Merom is enough better than what we have now for Apple to stock the part, change the assembly line and otherwise confuse support for existing machines; with a number of different processors on the same platform it gets downright weird when you go to fix something.

As you say, it'll be interesting to see who's right, and I won't be at all upset if I'm wrong-except that I have a current, 2 week old MBP right now.

[glhart]

I am happy with my latest revision 17" Powerbook. It seems to me that this thread is paying too much attention to speed. For me, the screen is more important. The MBP 17" screen is marginally better than mine (a bit brighter, wider viewing angle), but this is not enough to make me spend a small fortune for it. I would contend that for the vast majority of users, the difference in speed between the latest Powerbooks and the MBP is not that significant. Unless there is some change in the screen or something similar, why wait for Merom? Especially when it will be new and may have unexpected issues (like the core 2 iMacs). You have to keep in mind that the speed of your machine is dependent on many things besides the CPU.

[LfGrdMike]

Well I think they will be updated before the holidays. How major of an upgrade is hard to tell. I am in the market and kind of feel like with 802.11n rumored to be in the iMacs and everything that I need to at least wait for the revision before the holidays or whenever that next revision will be. At this point the 15" MacBook Pro in my mind is way overpriced. To not have FireWire 800 like its predecessor had is just odd... Apple isn't missing any features anywhere else but these two things.

The speed bump for my purposes isn't as big of a deal as not wanting to be behind the cutting edge because my machine doesn't have 802.11n and things like that. I understand some people need every bit of power they can possibly get. For my purposes the machines are extremely fast as is. My main concern is that I want the issues ironed out with the heat and all those things. They probably haven't been updated because I am in the market to btw. Thank me later folks. This time I can afford to wait where as last time I couldn't wait any longer it was a must.

My friends make fun of me because they look at reality more. There is always something new and you just have to accept it. In this case its hard for me to have that mentality because of the above.

[iBorg]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I 100% disagree; too bad we cannot wager this issue. MBPs are 9 months old now, and as a consequence of v1 status lame in important aspects like mass storage, Superdrives, FW800, etc. Intel's road map is clear, there is zero technology to performing a basic upgrade and Merom PC laptops have already been announced.

The only reason Apple would go into this holiday season with only the existing substandard MBPs is if the chips are not available. Indeed there are some rumors to that effect, but that is not the reason cited for "Merom Macs are not going to be coming out any time soon..."

It is cool that we will see who is right/wrong soon enough! :-)

-Allen Wicks

Agreed - with every other laptop manufacturer now shipping C2D units, it would be an extreme embarassment for Apple to continue to sell "last generation" Core Duos in its "Pro" lineup. Now that Apple is using the same "off the shelf" parts that everyone else is using, it's more than just bragging rights to use cutting edge technology. C2D MBPs (and probably MBs) will debut within the next 1-2 weeks.



iBorg

[atc ben]

Originally Posted by iBorg 

Agreed - with every other laptop manufacturer now shipping C2D units, it would be an extreme embarassment for Apple to continue to sell "last generation" Core Duos in its "Pro" lineup.

iBorg

Nevertheless, that is exactly what they're currently doing.

[justinkim]

Originally Posted by atc ben 

Nevertheless, that is exactly what they're currently doing.

And one would hope that they will not continue to do so for much longer.

[tracheopterix]

latest rumors predict this week based on inventory:
Mac Rumors: Latest MacBook Pro Rumors... This Week?
iTWire - Core 2 Duo MacBooks to launch next week?

[Cottonsworth]

Originally Posted by tracheopterix 

latest rumors predict this week based on inventory:
Mac Rumors: Latest MacBook Pro Rumors... This Week?
iTWire - Core 2 Duo MacBooks to launch next week?

I read the same articles and find them very convincing. The MacBook Pros are long overdue for an update since they have outlined their average product cycles. While it is true that the next update might not provide a significant speed bump, it still wouldn't make sense to honker down good, hard-earned money for a model that is about to be discontinued.

[Anand]

I could be in luck or out of luck! We put in an order for a Macbook Pro about 2 weeks ago (education). I hope I get a new Macbook and not a old one.

[DevNine]

Still being updated as of 12:50GMT.Phoned the Applestore in Ireland and the guy I was talking to thinks it is probably a new Mac Book Pro.

[aljawad]

Apple store is DOWN!
Boy, am I glad I waited!

[DevNine]

The wait is killing me, still down at 13:35GMT

[Mrjinglesusa]

Buy NOW!!!!!

[Tuoder]

You still might consider waiting to see if there are any new problems with this revision. I would go for it though.

[meatyocre]

Buy it NOW! No better time.

[osiris]

Oh joy.

[houstonmacbro]

core 2 duos ... nothing else to wait on now right...?

[Tuoder]

Originally Posted by houstonmacbro 

core 2 duos ... nothing else to wait on now right...?

Core 2 Quad

[Simon]

Today is officially the best day to buy a MBP. Unless of course you're a wuss and want to wait for early buyer reports.

[wingdo]

My order will be placed today.

I'm not waiting for Santa Rosa, I am not waiting for the quad. This really is the very best day to order.

Although I do wish there was still a 7200 HD option for the 15". Is heat really that much of an issue in the 15 now?

[wingdo]

[/austin powers voice] YEAH BABY [/austin powers voice]

MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 2.33GHz
Part Number: Z0DQ
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
Accessory Kit
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
SuperDrive 6x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Accessory Kit
Estimated ship: 3-5 business days
Delivered within 2-3 business days after shipping

Order is placed!

[Tuoder]

Originally Posted by Tuoder 

Core 2 Quad

Originally Posted by wingdo 

My order will be placed today.

I'm not waiting for Santa Rosa, I am not waiting for the quad. This really is the very best day to order.

It was a joke. You can wait forever if you want to. From a standpoint of features for money, waiting for the first day that a product comes out is the best. For reliability, it is better to wait until the last day of a revision, especially the last revision.

[osiris]

MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 2.33GHz
Part Number: MA610LL/A
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
SuperDrive 6x (DVD+R DL/DVD�RW/CD-RW)
Accessory Kit
Estimated Ship: 2-4 business days
Delivered within 5 business days after shipping

[ghporter]

I'm officially eating crow here folks. This is exactly what everybody was saying "should" come out, and what I was saying wasn't enough of a change for Apple to do (not that it's a bad change!). Maybe I was hoping they wouldn't release the new MBP so soon-I JUST got mine on Oct 6. Oh welll...

I can be jealous and live with it.

[bcoutlander]

Call me crazy..... But I just purchased a RevA refurb for $1599.
Refurbished MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
15.4-inch widescreen display (1440x900 resolution)
1GB (single SODIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
100GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB GDDR3 memory


Not exactly cutting edge, but much better than the Black MacBook I was looking at buying before this became available. I thought it was too good of a deal to pass up.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Today is officially the best day to buy a MBP. Unless of course you're a wuss and want to wait for early buyer reports.

So, this is just to show that I do put my money where my mouth is.

MBPRO 15/2.33 CTO
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM-2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive@5400rpm
SuperDrive 6X
15" Glossy Widescreen Display
BkLit Keyboard/Mac OS
Country Kit

And thanks to Apple's academic discount this will cost me a mere 2k.

[siflippant]

Originally Posted by Simon 

So, this is just to show that I do put my money where my mouth is.

MBPRO 15/2.33 CTO
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM-2x1GB
120GB Serial ATA Drive@5400rpm
SuperDrive 6X
15" Glossy Widescreen Display
BkLit Keyboard/Mac OS
Country Kit

And thanks to Apple's academic discount this will cost me a mere 2k.

Simon... you have a great collection of Macs over the years... but not a 17" - is it just too big a machine for you then? Mmmmmm... not sure if 15's the way to go here now...

[Simon]

Originally Posted by siflippant 

Simon... you have a great collection of Macs over the years...

Well, I still lack a decent room to set em up in. They're just all stored in an old book case. One day I'll try to make something decent out of it. Maybe when I'm retired.

but not a 17" - is it just too big a machine for you then?

Yeah, unfortunately it kinda is. I really like the 17" MBP - it's a beautifully sleek machine. My problem is that since I work for a federal research lab I only get to fly coach. And most of the time the 15" barely fits. And when I use my MBP at home or at work I hook it up to a big TFT screen anyway, so basically I just don't need a 17". I still love its looks though.