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Horsepoo!!! · Sep 17, 2003, 09:32 PM

How long have CD/DVD combos been shipping in Macs.

Maybe I'm not remembering straight but I'm under the impression that most Macs that fit the OS X specs (G3 and up) have CD/DVD combo in them.

I know the early iMacs and Beige G3s didn't. But when has Apple started putting CD/DVD drives as a minimum spec?

Instead of shipping 3 CDs, Apple should offer the 3 CDs as an option and offer 1 DVD as default. Or whatever...

Art Vandelay · Sep 17, 2003, 09:45 PM

There are many Macs out there that do not have DVD capable drives. My work Mac is a QuickSilver G4/733 It is CD-RW only.

Apple is including a DVD install disc with current Macs that have DVD drives, but I doubt you will see retail versions of OS X come on DVD for a while. It's cheaper for them to have one SKU than it is to offer two SKUs (one CD, one DVD).

justinkim · Sep 17, 2003, 09:46 PM

IIRC, a CD only drive was one of the standard options in the first generation of G4s. I seem to remember having to make a case for getting a DVD in a Yikes G4 at work way back when.

Art Vandelay · Sep 17, 2003, 09:51 PM

After taking a peek at the Apple Store, you can still buy an iBook or eMac with a CD-ROM drive.

moonmonkey · Sep 18, 2003, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
How long have CD/DVD combos been shipping in Macs.

Maybe I'm not remembering straight but I'm under the impression that most Macs that fit the OS X specs (G3 and up) have CD/DVD combo in them.

I know the early iMacs and Beige G3s didn't. But when has Apple started putting CD/DVD drives as a minimum spec?

Instead of shipping 3 CDs, Apple should offer the 3 CDs as an option and offer 1 DVD as default. Or whatever...

My Flat screen iMac only has a CD/RW.

diamondsw · Sep 18, 2003, 11:37 AM

Now that we're getting up to 3 CD's, though, I also say ship it on DVD, with a CD option. Yes, there are two SKUs (out of *how many* Apple has?), but they'll save costs on production, and it's just a heck of a lot nicer for the 75% at least that have DVD drives.

MrK · Sep 18, 2003, 03:01 PM

I say bring back the floppy. How many floppies would Panther be, if you install Dev tools and Xcode?

2.5 GB / 1.44 MB = 1737 floppies. That would give you some wrist and elbow injuries.

OwlBoy · Sep 18, 2003, 04:41 PM

Does "The Floppy is dead! Long live the Floppy" apply here? or do I still not understand that quote....

-Owl

CharlesS · Sep 18, 2003, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by MrK:
I say bring back the floppy. How many floppies would Panther be, if you install Dev tools and Xcode?

2.5 GB / 1.44 MB = 1737 floppies. That would give you some wrist and elbow injuries.

Even AOL would not send you that many disks.

MrK · Sep 18, 2003, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Even AOL would not send you that many disks.

You mean Time Warner? They dropped AOL from their corporate name, too much negative publicity...

ZackS · Sep 18, 2003, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by MrK:
I say bring back the floppy. How many floppies would Panther be, if you install Dev tools and Xcode?

2.5 GB / 1.44 MB = 1737 floppies. That would give you some wrist and elbow injuries.

I bet with the sit format's 23% average compression they could get it down to 1337 floppies. That would be so.. oh wait...

WJMoore · Sep 18, 2003, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Now that we're getting up to 3 CD's, though, I also say ship it on DVD, with a CD option. Yes, there are two SKUs (out of *how many* Apple has?), but they'll save costs on production...

It would probably cost them far more to have and manage both DVD and CD versions. The retail version will be CD for some time to come.

Art Vandelay · Sep 18, 2003, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by MrK:
You mean Time Warner? They dropped AOL from their corporate name, too much negative publicity...

AOL, a unit of Time Warner (formerly AOL Time Warner) is still AOL. Only the corporate parent has removed AOL from its name.

Chuckit · Sep 18, 2003, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Now that we're getting up to 3 CD's, though, I also say ship it on DVD, with a CD option. Yes, there are two SKUs (out of *how many* Apple has?), but they'll save costs on production

They'll also have a horde of customers confused when the install disc doesn't work in their computers.

By the way, are we getting up to 3 CDs? I thought we'd been at 3 CDs with 10.0.

Horsepoo!!! · Sep 18, 2003, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Chuckit:
They'll also have a horde of customers confused when the install disc doesn't work in their computers.

By the way, are we getting up to 3 CDs? I thought we'd been at 3 CDs with 10.0.

Come on now...do people put DVDs into their CD players thinking it's a music CD? I know a lot of people are stupid but...not *that* stupid.

diamondsw · Sep 18, 2003, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by Chuckit:
They'll also have a horde of customers confused when the install disc doesn't work in their computers.

By the way, are we getting up to 3 CDs? I thought we'd been at 3 CDs with 10.0.

Not counting developer tools, OS X 10.0 and 10.1 were 1 CD, Jaguar was 2, and now Panther is 3.

Eug Wanker · Sep 18, 2003, 11:04 PM

Currently shipping Macs come with software install DVDs. Mine did, and that was 2002.

But I can understand CDs for general OS releases.

Art Vandelay · Sep 18, 2003, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Currently shipping Macs come with software install DVDs. Mine did, and that was 2002.

But I can understand CDs for general OS releases.

Just to clarify, only those with DVD drives come with DVDs. CD only Macs still come with CDs.

Chuckit · Sep 19, 2003, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Come on now...do people put DVDs into their CD players thinking it's a music CD? I know a lot of people are stupid but...not *that* stupid.

DVDs and music CDs aren't sold side-by-side, and they don't have similar packaging. Maybe you're right and it would seem natural, but I think a lot (maybe not most, but a lot) of people would look at the two options for installation and say, "Shoot, which do I have? I think I might have a DVD-ROM drive, but I'm not sure...oh well, OS 9 works well enough for me, I guess."

If they noticed the difference at all, that is.

legacyb4 · Sep 19, 2003, 02:46 AM

Been meaning to ask, but is the OS X "DVD" that ships with compatible machines a proper, bootable OS (ie, can I choose to partition before installation?) or is it typical "software restore" only setup where you can only restore to factory original configuration?

Cheers.

Originally posted by Art Vandelay:
Apple is including a DVD install disc with current Macs that have DVD drives, but I doubt you will see retail versions of OS X come on DVD for a while. It's cheaper for them to have one SKU than it is to offer two SKUs (one CD, one DVD).

blackbird_1.0 · Sep 19, 2003, 03:10 AM

the only thing i dislike about the cdrom drives apple ship sis the fact that they only read 24x to 32x, while a regular pc cdrom has been at 52x for 2 or 3 years, which is good for games...i'm not complaining, i'm just saying.

zadak · Sep 19, 2003, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Not counting developer tools, OS X 10.0 and 10.1 were 1 CD, Jaguar was 2, and now Panther is 3.

10.1 was 2 CDs, OS 9 was included, remember?

Eug · Sep 19, 2003, 08:52 AM

Just to clarify, only those with DVD drives come with DVDs. CD only Macs still come with CDs.

Of course.

However, that's only the lowest end eMac and iBook (and Xserve). Everything else has at least a combo drive.

benb · Sep 19, 2003, 09:55 AM

How much does it cost to press a DVD? Why not just throw 3CDs and a DVD in the same box?

Eug · Sep 19, 2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by benb:
How much does it cost to press a DVD? Why not just throw 3CDs and a DVD in the same box?

Cost. As cheap as a DVD is, it still costs more than nothing. Why bother? 3 CDs is not a big deal at all. If it was 5 then that's pushing it.

Powaqqatsi · Sep 19, 2003, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by zadak:
10.1 was 2 CDs, OS 9 was included, remember?

minus OS9 equals 1 CD

cpac · Sep 19, 2003, 11:42 AM

correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jaguar come on "3 cds" - 1 that was the system, 1 that was "extras," and 1 that was developer tools?

And doesn't this correspond to Panther's 3 cds?

What's the problem?

Gankdawg · Sep 19, 2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by ZackS:
I bet with the sit format's 23% average compression they could get it down to 1337 floppies. That would be so.. oh wait...

diamondsw · Sep 19, 2003, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by cpac:
correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jaguar come on "3 cds" - 1 that was the system, 1 that was "extras," and 1 that was developer tools?

And doesn't this correspond to Panther's 3 cds?

What's the problem?

Jaguar had two CD's for the OS (very few installations would avoid needing CD 2), and one for development. Panther has three CD's for the OS, and still an extra for development. Here's the breakdown:

10.0: 1 for OS, 1 for development, 1 for 9
10.1: 1 for OS, 1 for development, 1 for 9
10.2: 2 for OS, 1 for development, 0 for 9
10.3: 3 for OS, 1 for development, 0 for 9

goMac · Sep 19, 2003, 12:25 PM

Classic used to come on both floppy and CD, why can't they do the same for X? I don't see a huge problem...

Cipher13 · Sep 20, 2003, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by Art Vandelay:
Just to clarify, only those with DVD drives come with DVDs. CD only Macs still come with CDs.

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Currently shipping Macs come with software install DVDs. Mine did, and that was 2002.

But I can understand CDs for general OS releases.

Actually, my iBook 900 (combo drive) came with CDs.

Perhaps only systems where a CD-ROM is not an option at all come with DVDs.

legacyb4 · Oct 4, 2003, 11:33 AM

Answering my own question now that I have a new PB that shipped with a software restore DVD: yes.

Originally posted by legacyb4:
Been meaning to ask, but is the OS X "DVD" that ships with compatible machines a proper, bootable OS (ie, can I choose to partition before installation?) or is it typical "software restore" only setup where you can only restore to factory original configuration?

Cheers.

Lyra · Oct 4, 2003, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
How long have CD/DVD combos been shipping in Macs.

Maybe I'm not remembering straight but I'm under the impression that most Macs that fit the OS X specs (G3 and up) have CD/DVD combo in them.

I know the early iMacs and Beige G3s didn't. But when has Apple started putting CD/DVD drives as a minimum spec?

Instead of shipping 3 CDs, Apple should offer the 3 CDs as an option and offer 1 DVD as default. Or whatever...

I hear ya pal, same here, I cannot figure out why the heck they don't offer this solution, I am sick and tired of having so many discs... Cause in my line of business, you have A LOT! And yes when you have 3 discs you have to find, it is 3 and not just one you can have in a special place...

Ah never mind, this is again one of those things Apple will ignore, as always...

Then in 2 years they will come out with them...

IT IS 2003!!!!! O4 is here in a few months!!! COME ON APPLE!!!! USE DVDS!!!! You bunch of Smart A$$ people, you should be able to conjure up a DVD disc...

ryju · Oct 4, 2003, 12:33 PM

Considering my iMac doesn't have anything more than a CD-ROM drive... they damn well better not put it on a DVD.

biscool · Oct 4, 2003, 04:54 PM

This is a stupid argument. Who cares? It will be on CD because they are still shipping machines with only CD or CDRW drives. Why add costs, etc by making two editions of panther?

Detrius · Oct 4, 2003, 05:11 PM

My opinion is that as long as DVD burners are not commonplace, the OS should still ship on CDs, even if all machines come with DVD readers. You should be able to make a copy of your OS disk if you want or need to. Even though nearly every machine I have access to can read DVDs, none of them have DVD burners.

As the guy that fixes your machine when you bring it in with problems, I don't want to be sticking my original OS install discs in your machine, just because I may forget to remove them.

stravinsky1911 · Oct 5, 2003, 01:16 AM

What if I want to install Panther on my trusty 233 iMac? Not that I would, but...

CD is the least common denominator for OS X capable macs, so that's what Apple will use.

stravinsky1911 · Oct 5, 2003, 01:18 AM

Actually, should say CD is the common drive to OS X capable systems- are there any that fit the minimum specs that don't have a CD drive?

naphtali · Oct 5, 2003, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by stravinsky1911:
Actually, should say CD is the common drive to OS X capable systems- are there any that fit the minimum specs that don't have a CD drive?

Erm how do you install OS X then?

aapljack · Oct 5, 2003, 02:16 AM

The software install disc that came with my new powerbook is on DVD. It is nice just dealing with one disc for the install.

-b

bradoesch · Oct 5, 2003, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by legacyb4:
Answering my own question now that I have a new PB that shipped with a software restore DVD: yes.

I like the way you think. I'm thinking about a small question about the dual 2 GHz G5 right now...

psu03bob · Oct 5, 2003, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by benb:
How much does it cost to press a DVD? Why not just throw 3CDs and a DVD in the same box?

If every box shipped with two copies of the software piracy would be rampant. Who could resist the temptation to share their extra copy with a friend?

Also, if the purpose of shipping with a DVD is to reduce the number of disks you now have 4 instead of 3.

biscool · Oct 5, 2003, 08:58 PM

Also, if the purpose of shipping with a DVD is to reduce the number of disks you now have 4 instead of 3.

I think the original poster's point was to use one disc to install from, so you don't have to keep switching discs...

If every box shipped with two copies of the software piracy would be rampant. Who could resist the temptation to share their extra copy with a friend?

Who can resist the temptation to burn a copy for a friend?