[mrmister]

Maybe I'm not a normal Apple customer, but for me the central things I want from a new 15" powerbook are:

�Same weight or less than the current model.

�Same battery life or more than the current model.

�Improvements in processor speed.

...and roughly in that order.

The new 15" AlBook is over half a pound heavier, has slightly larger dimensions on every axis and less battery life.

They had a long time to design while waiting for the Motorola CPUs to be ready, and instead I feel like we're going backwards.

Does anyone else feel this way, or is everyone instead stroking their new AlBooks in total reverance?

[dennis88]

I don't think the new pb 15" have less batterylife, because the previous one did not have 5 hours batterylife, and people that have gotten the new one says the batterylife is great.

[aapljack]

I'm not disappointed by any of the facts you sighted, except maybe the battery-life. But could it be that Apple is just being a little more realistic with their battery-life specs? Seems like whenever they say '6 hrs battery-life' I hear that it is never that much and usually around 4.5 at best. Just a thought.

What you have to think about is everything that is improved on this model. Backlit keyboard, built-in bluetooth, airport extreme, new enclosure, FW800, USB 2.0.

I think the new features far out-weigh any of the drawbacks.

-b

[Maflynn]

What was the weight for the prior model?

Mike

[TAZ]

I have not yet had a chance to stroke my new book as its just now somewhere over Alaska flying to meet me either Saturday or Monday. However, its not truly a step backwards. The size difference is under .25" which you wont notice unless you take out your tape measure. The weight is also probably going to go unnoticed, unless youre holding it side by side with the Ti. The changes in dimension and weight are required by the material change. Al alloy is heavier and than the Ti and it is also weaker. In order to make the book function there has to be thicker walls in the stampings which means bigger computer and a heavier one. Also, if Apple were smart they would have increased the interior space to try and alleviate the heat concerns that people raised with the Ti. The battery life is probably due to the added gizmos and gadgets like BT, backlit keyboard, ambient light sensor...

The biggest step backwards I feel was the eliminatio of L3 cache. these machines seem to post very good benchmarks as they are. i just wonder how they would have fared with the L3 left in them.

[PBG4 User]

The previous model was 5.3 pounds. The new model is 5.6 pounds.

.3 doesn't not equate to over 1/2 pound heavier.

.3 pounds = 4.8 ounces.

Just don't carry your water in your backpack anymore and you won't even notice the difference (it'll be lighter even).

[MrK]

A. Panther will increae your battery life and will likely be available in a month or so.

B. Size: Definite step backwards. I was really looking forward to the 15" but am not really impressed. I know the Titanium was too flimsy, I had a Ti 800, but this is one more reason for me to keep my 12" for awhile. I miss the screen but the Mid-Al is just too heavy / big.

C. Processor speed: Take Moto's bosses out into the street and run them over with a bus. I know it is expensive but maybe some L3 cache would have made up for the disappointing speed increases.

As always, great looking designs and the best OS, but these new PB's are not all that. I am hopeful Apple will come out with something better in 6-7 months. At least they finally have USB 2 ...

[Peabo]

If you look at this screenshot, you will see that the extra thickness the Al book gained is a gap between the lid and the base to keep the screen from touching the keyboard (and making those nasty 'grease stains' - I saw them on my friends 800mhz Ti)

Al vs Ti

[C-Bear]

Originally posted by MrK:
Take Moto's bosses out into the street and run them over with a bus.

Would that be a front size bus?

[Eug]

Originally posted by PBG4 User:
The previous model was 5.3 pounds. The new model is 5.6 pounds.

.3 doesn't not equate to over 1/2 pound heavier.

.3 pounds = 4.8 ounces.

Just don't carry your water in your backpack anymore and you won't even notice the difference (it'll be lighter even).

Actually, the previous model was rated as 5.4 lbs. Thus the difference is 0.2 lbs.

[aapljack]

Originally posted by C-Bear:
Would that be a front size bus?

I think it might be a NuBus..

[MrK]

Originally posted by C-Bear:
Would that be a front size bus?

Ha ha...

I was thinking cross-town express, actually.

[newmanium]

If you guys would take a look at www.barefeats.com you can see just how much of an improvement the machines were compared to the last generation Titanium models. When Apple opted to take out the L3 in place of the new 7457 Motorola chip and the amazing ATI 9600, it clearly more than made up the lack of L3. In my opinion, to actually add FW800, USB 2.0, Airport Extreme, Bluetooth, the Backlit-Keyboard, and keep the same price? I think it's well worth for what Apple offers

Half a pound heavier? hmmm.. i think you were mistaken with the weight of th 12" PB since they weigh only 4.9 lbs at the time. just a theory.

[Scooterboy]

How much cost did Apple save by omitting level 3 cache? Sure you can argue that the 512KB level 2 cache makes up for this, but the performance increases according to www.barefeats.com are not that spectacular, especially for a PowerBook people were waiting for so long. Look, a Centrino (crippled with crappy video) was faster, a lot faster, at some tasks (including Photoshop and Cinebench) and more that competed with the G4 'book. If Apple had added the Level 3 1MB cache, it probably would have walked all over the Centrino, instead of keeping it neck and neck. I wonder how a Centrino with an ATi Radeon 9600 would compare? I wouldn't be all that surprised if Apple updates the PowerBooks with level 3 cache, since that's probably all it can do to increase performance before the PowerBook G5. It's not like Motorola will be speeding up the new G4's very soon.

[MrK]

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
If Apple had added the Level 3 1MB cache, it probably would have walked all over the Centrino, instead of keeping it neck and neck. I wonder how a Centrino with an ATi Radeon 9600 would compare?

Agreed. Apple seems to be doing just enough and barely on time. I would have left the prices a little higher and added the L3 or ANYTHING else to speed things up some. Also, the higher speed RAM is just expensive, but without anything on the processor side (like more cache) to dump to, it isn't fast.

Apple needs revloutionary performance to match its revolutionary design and OS. Sure these are faster than the 9 month old Ti design, but not much faster at all than the Rev. A Al Powerbooks. Baby steps doesn't cut it during the year of the notebook.

[Cards1]

Originally posted by z0ne81:
If you look at this screenshot, you will see that the extra thickness the Al book gained is a gap between the lid and the base to keep the screen from touching the keyboard (and making those nasty 'grease stains' - I saw them on my friends 800mhz Ti)

Al vs Ti

I had two Ti's and the screenmarks on the screen drove me nuts!! I kept the screen clean and even bought a screen protector, but I felt like it was a defect in th engineering. Besides all other improvements, this is a huge benefit IMHO. What is .1 inches going to hurt anyways?

[newmanium]

I think you mentioned the deciding factor too: price. By adding all those features and keeping the L3 cache, how much more could Apple risk by raising PB's cost? And more importantly, would the average consumer/college student really understand the importance of L3 cache before plunking down the extra $?
I figure Apple had run into the same situation we're all discussing, whether reaching the full potential of a PB G4 and risking the relatively inexpensive price it set with the previous generation, or offer as much as they can while retaining the inexpensive price? I guess they opted for the latter. Alot of people's worries were whether the new PB's could handle themselves with the lack of L3 cache. And I think the benchmarks on barefeats accomplished just that. Was it worth waiting the 9 long months as some people have? probably not. But is it minor speed bump we can benefit from, sure. We're always looking for the latest and greatest, but Apple was seldom been all about the "speed" of a machine, but the entire experience that you get from using a Mac is what sets us apart from the rest.

[mrmister]

I am glad to hear it isn't as big a difference in weight as I feared, but I am still confused over the battery life. Until I see a number of real-world benches from people running down their batteries I wouldn't budge, because I know the 17" has terrible battery life, IMHO.

[CobraNT]

Battery life, processor speed, what ever. I am just happy to be in the Mac world and be rid of the blue screens of death, unknown serious errors, viruses, and security issues!
Nice graphic z0ne81, I couldn't have said it better.

[MrK]

Originally posted by newmanium:
I think you mentioned the deciding factor too: price. By adding all those features and keeping the L3 cache, how much more could Apple risk by raising PB's cost? And more importantly, would the average consumer/college student really understand the importance of L3 cache before plunking down the extra $?

The Powerbook is Apple's highest margin computer. They can afford to soak up the $ hit for a generation of PBs if they want to sell something with a jump in performance that is greater. After making people wait almost a year for the 15" update and almost 8 months for the other PBs, you think they would have been looking for the maximum performance gain.

Since they can't change the Motorola performance deficit yet, they could do other things to boost the speed. Sure, these are the fastest Powerbooks ever. But they aren't the best notebook deal any longer becuase the speed has not kept up with the rest of the market. Yes, that takes the price drop into the comparison.

In the end, I am underwhelmed and instead of moving back to a 15" PB, I will stick with Rev A. 12" for at least another generation. In fact, I likely won't buy another PB until the G5 (or other chip) replaces the aging G4.

[workerbee]

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
If Apple had added the Level 3 1MB cache, it probably would have walked all over the Centrino, instead of keeping it neck and neck.

I don't think so. The Centrino architecture is a lot faster than the aging G4, 3rd level cache or no 3rd level cache.
And as to how a Centrino with ATI 9600 would perform, here's a number from a recent test: Gericom with Mobile P4 2.4 GHz, Quake III 1024x768 max quality = 159,6 fps (a Pentium-M 1.7 GHz is probably about equivalent to a mobile P4 2.4GHz).

[chrisutley]

The screen or "lid" is thicker, it's not just the gap.

Originally posted by z0ne81:
If you look at this screenshot, you will see that the extra thickness the Al book gained is a gap between the lid and the base to keep the screen from touching the keyboard (and making those nasty 'grease stains' - I saw them on my friends 800mhz Ti)

Al vs Ti

[Sakino]

I dont know why everyone is bitching about alittle weight change and little larger in size. First of all, go to the store and check out any windows laptop. Tell me if you find one that weights, and has the same size demensions with all the goodies that apple packs into their powerbook line. If you do find one of those in say 2-3 years tell me.
I ordered my first apple product and its a 15 inch powerbook. It ships Monday and I cannot wait?!
If it wasnt for counterstrike I would be selling my desktop right now.

[slider]

Well, I have been waiting for this machine for months and should be ordering it within a week. I am very excited. I am going with the 1.25Ghz model, adding the 5400rpm HD, changing the 512MB using two chips to one, and swapping out the superdrive for the combo. This 15" powerbook has the aiport antenna built into the lid for better range, waited for that, bluetooth (will be getting the wireless Apple keyboard), AE is built in this model and of course the added encryption. If Apple needed to increase the size abit to accommodate these new features and to get that faster chip in there that's fine. Look, the processor is not Apple's fault, they are doing the best they can with the processors available to them. Apple worked for a long time with IBM to make the G5 a reality, I would bet almost anything that they are already working with IBM to get these chips into the mobile line. Anyways, this is my time to buy my first powerbook.

[MusicalTone]

I think it depends on where you are coming from. If you in the market for a new PB then the new models are still an excellent choice. If however - and more to the point I think for some here - you are in the market to upgrade from an existing TiBook then the jump aint that big and on balance you may have already decided it is not worth it.

"Dissapointed" is not a word I would use if I were in the market for a new PB right now. Not only are the new models better all round, they are cheaper than they were 7 months ago.

[Daniel Bayer]

I wouldn't say I am dissapointed either. I am coming from a ti-1,000 though.

I was about to sell my 1GHZ Ti and get a new 133 17'r.

Instead, I will keep a close eye on my paint and replace my underwhelming stock 60GB Toshiba drive with the new 7,200 RPM Hitachi model.

That should make a huge improvement in overall operation and I will be able to wait util either a "Rad" rev-c or G5 next year.

db

[Kahpoosta Kid]

Originally posted by MusicalTone:
I think it depends on where you are coming from. If you in the market for a new PB then the new models are still an excellent choice. If however - and more to the point I think for some here - you are in the market to upgrade from an existing TiBook then the jump aint that big and on balance you may have already decided it is not worth it.

"Dissapointed" is not a word I would use if I were in the market for a new PB right now. Not only are the new models better all round, they are cheaper than they were 7 months ago.

It's somewhat the same I experienced with the Apple desktop G4s. I've not upgraded my Duel 500 until now-with the release of the G5s (patiently waiting). I felt there wasn't enough speed there to get me to jump. Added features, sure-but nothing to jump up n' down.
I bought my daughter a ALPB 15'er (first PB) and I am just as excited for her as I am for my G5.
I also think G5 ALPB are coming soon. Apple may have squeezed the last Mhz from the G4 ALPB.