[Skypat]

And are they really that good by the way ? I am a bit frustrated to see how well it performs compared to the high end powerbooks

[AssassyN]

The technology behind them is very impressive; they've been designed to be clocked at lower mhz speeds to save battery life, yet they perform much more thoroughly and efficiently putting out major impressive benchmarks even w/ relatively low mhz speeds. They also, as stated, use much less juice, and some of them, w/ the right battery, can last over 5-6 hours at a time.

So yes, the Centrino technology really is as good as it's talked about...it's not a Mac, but it's a dang good technology if you can find a Win-laptop that actually looks decent and weighs less than a military-grade tank.

[Scooterboy]

I was surprised too, and am making a trip over to a CompUSA to have a look at one soon. I still would rather buy a PowerBook, but I was always under the impression that Centrinos were iBook competition, and here they are performing as good as the newest PowerBooks.

[schmoe]

Intel did a great job with the Pentium-M, which is the CPU portion of 'centrino'. It was designed explicitly for laptops and they managed to get amazing performance combined with amazing battery life.

We'll have to see how IBM does with the mobile G5, doesn't look like Motorola's G4 will ever compete with the Pentium-M. Unfortunately for Intel however, none of their laptop manufacturers have much design sense, and there is no viable competitor to OSX.

[GENERAL_SMILEY]

Because they're high in protein, low in fat... Because they're full of meaty goodness... Because they're based on alien technology Intel scraped off the shoe of cub scouts camping in Roswell, because...

Seriously who the fsck cares? These posts seem a touch redundant on a Mac board.

What is mobile G5? Is this just an assumption that it will have to happen - seems unlikely that they will manage this. Last I heard they were planning some sort of hybrid advanced G3 - maybe they'll call it the mobile G5, not based on Power 4 though.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by GENERAL_SMILEY:
What is mobile G5? Is this just an assumption that it will have to happen - seems unlikely that they will manage this. Last I heard they were planning some sort of hybrid advanced G3 - maybe they'll call it the mobile G5, not based on Power 4 though.

Well, it seems that while Jon Rubinstein acknowledges the challenge of using G5s in future Powerbooks, he isn't discounting the possibility:

He made it clear, however, that the current crop of G5 processors are designed for desktop machines, and a cooler-running version of the processor would be needed for a PowerBook. But he did point to the fact that a few years ago, nobody thought it would be possible to get a G4 processor in a PowerBook.

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by GENERAL_SMILEY:
What is mobile G5? Is this just an assumption that it will have to happen - seems unlikely that they will manage this. Last I heard they were planning some sort of hybrid advanced G3 - maybe they'll call it the mobile G5, not based on Power 4 though.

G3 with altivec will probably go into the ibooks when the powerbooks go g5... the g5 will probably go into the powerbook as soon as IBM moves to a .09 u process

[Nicko]

Originally posted by GENERAL_SMILEY:
Because they're high in protein, low in fat... Because they're full of meaty goodness... Because they're based on alien technology Intel scraped off the shoe of cub scouts camping in Roswell, because...

Seriously who the fsck cares? These posts seem a touch redundant on a Mac board.

What is mobile G5? Is this just an assumption that it will have to happen - seems unlikely that they will manage this. Last I heard they were planning some sort of hybrid advanced G3 - maybe they'll call it the mobile G5, not based on Power 4 though.

some of us like to discuss other tech than just mac.

[Eug]

I was always under the impression that Centrinos were iBook competition, and here they are performing as good as the newest PowerBooks.

Nope, if you actually look at the pricing and model specs, it's usually the high end laptops that have Centrinos. And for good reason. They are very efficient chips, and low power. ie. For the power they use, they're blistering fast, even if their top speed doesn't match a high power desktop CPU. On the x86 side, this means that Intel basically has a lock on the laptop market. AMD need not apply. On the Mac side, well, we shall see. We're gonna need something better soon.

Seriously who the fsck cares?

Probably everyone in this thread. Seriously, people actually do consider other laptops than PowerBooks. It's good to compare once in a while than go thru life with blinders on.

[TAZ]

Originally posted by Skypat:
And are they really that good by the way ? I am a bit frustrated to see how well it performs compared to the high end powerbooks

I feel that part of the reason for this discrepancy is Motorola. The G4 is a good chip and when first introduced into the powerbook it was great combination that blew other laptops out of the water pretty much. However, it is "old technology". Intel came up with Centrino while Motorola sat back on its laurels and came up with squat. I think that within a year Apple will be all IBM and it will dump Motorola all together and then you should see some competativeness with Intel, as you are seeing the G5 PM do very well against the P4.

Back to the Centrino. It may have good technology behind it, but it still has the biggest drawback ANY computer could have. A seriously CRAPPY operating system. Unfortunately people do not see the computer a whole and often get blinded by the hardware specs. If you look at it as a whole system,OS included, The Powerbook is superior by not a small margin.

[spalding12]

who on earth would want to buy a new powerbook with all this "soon-to-be-IBM" rhetoric

why do you all mention it
do you REALLY think that the future of apple will put our NEW powerbooks in the trash heap in such a short period of time?

the operating system more than makes up for some shortcoming in clock speed.

we all know that.....

who's writing this crap..... one of those "interns" from DELL?

greg

[MrK]

I have to say that as a long time Powerbook user, these new laptops are really favorable in terms of performance. There was a long period where you could not touch the performance and value of the Powerbook. That was why so many Linux and Unix geeks were buying them. Those days are over. There needs to be a G5 or other performance increase soon.

Sorry, buyers of the new PB and Mac die hards (of which I am both) but these are not truly competitive with the latest Wintel hardware. And that new Sony that competes with the PB 12" and weighs a full pound less clearly shows the style / design is there too... in some places.

[kikkoman]

I had considered upgrading from my Rev B Ti but these latest generation Powerbooks are evolutionary not revolutionary. The updates are nice but long overdue. The Centrino technology is impressive and Apple has to meet or exceed to be competitive. I won't spend my money on another Powerbook until they have something really exciting to offer. However that PowerMac G5 is lookin tasty!

[sleepyrenderer]

Originally posted by Eug:
Nope, if you actually look at the pricing and model specs, it's usually the high end laptops that have Centrinos. And for good reason. They are very efficient chips, and low power. ie. For the power they use, they're blistering fast, even if their top speed doesn't match a high power desktop CPU. On the x86 side, this means that Intel basically has a lock on the laptop market. AMD need not apply. On the Mac side, well, we shall see. We're gonna need something better soon.

Actually, they're used in both high end notenooks, mid-range notebooks and ultra low power versions are even used in Tablet PCs. For example you can get a Dell 600m spec'd just like the entry level 14.1" iBook (except the 600m has wireless built-in, a Radeon mobility 9000 instead of the iBook's 7500 and 6 months of Earthlink) for $1,437 after MIR at Dell Home or $1,387 at Dell Small Business. You can get it cheaper if you wait for the right set of Dell coupon codes and rebates (at one point the same setup was under $1K).

On a related note, Intel was just showing off the second version of the Centrino platform at IDF. Supposedly it cuts power consumption again by a large margin: http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.html?i=1874&p=2

[dialo]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
... weighs less than a military-grade tank.

As opposed to what? A consumer-grade tank?

[MrK]

Originally posted by sleepyrenderer:
On a related note, Intel was just showing off the second version of the Centrino platform at IDF. Supposedly it cuts power consumption again by a large margin: http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.html?i=1874&p=2

I cringe to admit this, but the Intel VP of Whatever was right last month when he said Apple made a mistake by choosing Motorola all those years ago.

His other comment, that IBM will fail the same way I doubt, but as far as mobile Intel is kicking everyone's behind, big time. I was using a (gasp) Dell and an IBM thinkpad both last week... becuase they still had juice and my PB 12" had run dry. And they were quick.

I am not going to go out and buy one just yet, but I am not buying an Apple portable anytime soon either becuase of this. This is the way that Intel pushes Apple performance.If enough people stop buying these things get addressed.

[spalding12]

do you really think that
what in the he__ did you think the INTEL VP OF WHATEVER was going to say about Apple's choice to use Motorola years ago...

Apple is NOT now nor has it EVER been subject to the same set of criteria that plagues and rules and judges the PC world.

our operating system is better
YES.... intel IS amazing and the PC's ARE faster than our Apples.
but... i would rather run quickly to the finish than sprint even faster to crashing and rebooting six times on the way to that SAME finish line.

i would pose quite a different statement to you....
i would say that INTEL made a MISTAKE years ago by not courting APPLE to display their incredible talents and leaving the PC world to mire in its own excrement

IMHO, of course

greg

[MrK]

Originally posted by spalding12:
i would pose quite a different statement to you....
i would say that INTEL made a MISTAKE years ago by not courting APPLE to display their incredible talents and leaving the PC world to mire in its own excrement

IMHO, of course

greg

Ok, Intel should have been begging to be THE chip to run in the best PCs made ever. But that doesn't excuse the current state of affairs. And the VP was right, Moto sucked things up and Apple would have been better off w/ Intel chips.

It isn't enough to have just revolutionary design and OS, the speed needs to be revolutionary as well.

Apple is still the brand I purchase and support, but Apple users expect to have the best in ALL areas.

[cambro]

Originally posted by kikkoman:
... these latest generation Powerbooks are evolutionary not revolutionary. The updates are nice but long overdue.

I think this sums it up very nicely. Well said, kikkoman.

The 15" Ti book sat on the same specs for almost one year. ONE YEAR PEOPLE!!! That's a lifetime in this gig, especially when your next revision is, as stated above, merely a baby step in relation to that year.

However, like Apple desktops, which blew monkey in terms of specs and perception for quite some time, the Powerbooks will be, to steal a quote, born again hard someday. It's just a matter of when....

[dialo]

Originally posted by spalding12:
PC's ARE faster than our Apples.
but... i would rather run quickly to the finish than sprint even faster to crashing and rebooting six times on the way to that SAME finish line.

Actually, it looks like the dual G% might be the fastest out there.

[Ryan1524]

hm..it'd be interesting to see Intel design a chip for apples. it would make some awkward conversation. they can't say G6 (let's just say) chips suck, because then they'd be bashing the same company who made their P5. LOL

[nobitacu]

Oh, I'm sure once IBM comes out with the mobile G5, it'll be just as good, and I will be right there to order it right after they show it. It's the next Powerbook I'm waiting for to buy. Nothing else.

Ming

[beachmark]

I have an Acer LCi800 Centrino laptop and an Apple Big Al. I have to admit that I am very impressed by the performance of the Centrino in comparison to my Big Al. I wanted to have an Apple again and wanted the best looking one for working with FCP. However if the latter had not been the case I seriously doubt if I had bought the Big Al next to my Centrino as it has everythign and more an Apple offers as well. And to make matters even worse for Apple in this side by side comparison: the Centrino is much cheaper (EUR1399 excluding VAT) and has as screen that is only 40 pixels smaller than an Apple (EUR3000 exclusing VAT) but then again has over 100 pixels more vertical.

No, as an avid Apple user I have to admit that that I am happily surprised by the performance of the Centrino. And so far I have not had serious problems with running XP. No more problems than with OSX

[Kahpoosta Kid]

Must be the OS.

[MusicalTone]

That Centrino sure does look impressive. When are they gonna port it to OSX? LoL. Come on people, OSX really is excellent but Windows isnt that bad. Personally I will stay with Apple now after having switched a few months back - as long as Apple dont screw up of course. But you have got to be bliind to see that Intel, Sony and others are doing some very good work in at least attempting to bring the Windows platform into the 21 Century. Just imagine where Apple could go if it had all those other companies working with it to improve the platform.

[NeXTLoop]

A couple of things to remember...

1. The new PowerBooks do narrow the performance gap with the Centrino. Just go over to barefeats.com and see some of the comparisons. While the Centrino does have its advantages, in some of the tests it barely is ahead. In others the new PB's really pull ahead. Here's the link...

2. Remember, we were saying the EXACT same thing about the PowerMacs vs the latest Dell desktops a few months ago. Now? Now we have PowerMacs that kick anything Dell's got right in the pants. Apple knows the failings of Moto. They're aware of how far they lag. So we can rest assured that just as soon as possible, we'll have PowerBooks with a G5. At that point, we'll once again have PB's that are not just competitive, but kick the Centrino and every other x86 laptop in the pants.

[buddy1065]

The Sonys just can't seem to get enough solid video memory in their Centrinos; they have always been conservative and even still use shared memory in their laptops. Also it is HARD to find any Centrino laptop with a DVD-R burner. Anyone know who makes one? The Centrino is a great chip; too bad the marketing teams are starting the overall Centrino laptop package out so weakly when it could be stronger. I might have been tempted, but for now the Apple aluminums are my best bet. Just my opinion. I suspect this is why the Centrino laptop in the Barefeats comparo was so weak in the video gaming dept; it's GPU was sorry and dragged the laptop's performance in the mud.

When they get a 128 MB ATI video chip with 2x DVD-R/RW and at least a 1.5 Ghz G4/G5 or 1.8 MB Centrino, that's when I'll bite. And THAT'S definitely just around the corner; possibly within 6 months.

[michaelb]

You're actually talking the Centrino chipset aren't you, not the physical notebook design?!

Two reasons:

1)
The Centrino/Pentium-M has had MUCH MUCH MUCH (what I'm getting at is A LOT) more R&D than Motorola's ageing design, which is essentially 1999 technology with a few tiny tweaks. Centrino chips are cutting edge 2003 designs with billions spent refining the tech.

2)
The tasks that show up the shortcomings of the PowerBook G4s are the ones that don't favor the Altivec engine in any shape or form. CineBench (Cinema4D's cross-platform benchmark) doesn't have a scrap of Altivec code in it. Games rarely do either. That the G4 can hold its own as well as it does it impressive.

But anyway, for the tasks notebooks are best for, a fast G4 or a fast Centrino really doesn't make the slightest practical difference. As long as the Mac has a 1 GHz or higher chip to support Mac OS X (which I see as the minimum for this demanding OS) everything a PowerBook does is just fine.

[Scooterboy]

Thanks for all the Centrino and G4 info. I was thinking of upgrading from my iBook 600, but now I think I'll wait, and save up money for a PowerBook G5, or if that doesn't show up, a Centrino laptop with good design and features. I love Mac OS X but everyone I know that runs WinXP likes it, much much better than Win 98, ME or what have you. In the meantime, if I really want to upgrade (my only real complaint about my iBook is the poor old ATi Rage 128 Mobility 8MB VRAM GPU - that's a long name!), I might just buy a used iBook 800 or the next revision iBook, and then upgrade to G5.

[toans]

Hi everyone....

As everyone's being saying, the amount of r&d pumped into the Pentium-M is huge...and it shows.

I've got a 12 inch PB and a Toshiba Centrino...both are nice machines, but for most of my uses I'd take the Powerbook. Initially when I decided to 'switch' i was pretty dissapointed with the speed of the PB...but it's grown on me and i love OS X (sole reason why I switched) However, whenever I want to convert a batch of files to AAC or whatever, I fire up my Toshiba straight away...

But yeah Win XP really isn't a bad OS...once one gets a theme program like StyleXP, it looks ok and I think in the past year of using XP I've had two crashes, opposed to 1 on my PB (it's only 2 months old, ironically I was using Office at the time lol)

[yoyoman]

So speed wise it may be decent but you still get all these legacy ports on your centrino laptop. Do I use it no. ps2 paralel, the other ones. Where is the fire wire 800 ports and firewire ports. Not all of them have it. Oh and the os is just horrible I have a hp laptop with this video editing program but no fire wire port and has a ps2 port when I don't have a ps2 mosue. So some things may not be so logical even though raw speeds are great on the centrino.

[sleepyrenderer]

Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
A couple of things to remember...

1. The new PowerBooks do narrow the performance gap with the Centrino. Just go over to barefeats.com and see some of the comparisons. While the Centrino does have its advantages, in some of the tests it barely is ahead. In others the new PB's really pull ahead. Here's the link...

Careful, bare feats used a 1.3GHz Pentium-M with integrated intel graphics. With even just a Radeon 9000 mobility (like the Dell 600m) it would pull over ~120FPS Q3A timedemo1 High Quality. See the middle notebook in this article (P-M 1.3GHz + Radeon 9000):
http://www.xonio.com/features/featur..._10265060.html

A P-M at 1.6GHz with a GeForce4 440 Go hits 233FPS at demo001 HQ:
http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/2...s_quake3_arena
Elsewhere in this forum someone has posted some 1.6GHz IBM T40 vs new Powerbook Photoshop benchmarks where the T40 is significantly faster.

The 1.7GHz models are faster still.

[cambro]

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
.... everyone I know that runs WinXP likes it, much much better than Win 98, ME or what have you.

WOW now THAT is a big-league endorsement!!!

Seriously though, I agree with most of the posts here. Apple is being ham-strung by developments outside of their immediate control. That said, they really need to light a fire under someone and get their mobile processors above and beyond the competition.

OS X is, quite frankly, at least 3 years ahead of Windows (and yes Scooterboy, that includes XP) and is quickly pulling further away. All pistons need to be firing, however, if Apple itself is going to make headway into market share.

[spalding12]

that IBM T40p is a great computer but NO FIREWIRE at all.....
so worthless as a multimedia notebook.....

why is that?

greg

[AssassyN]

USB is *still* much more used...plus, there's FireWire-to-USB cables out there to be had.

[spalding12]

thanks for that info
BUT....
wouldn't that USB to FIREWIRE adapter still yield horribly slower results than the FIREWIRE....
i know the 400 is max 400mps.... which never happens
what about that USB 2.0

thanks in advance

greg

[bauhaus]

Originally posted by spalding12:
that IBM T40p is a great computer but NO FIREWIRE at all.....
so worthless as a multimedia notebook.....

why is that?

greg

The T40p is a business workhorse notebook and is optimized as such (also for OpenGL specs.) Where would FW come in as useful for a business notebook?(rhetorical)

Secondly, with T40p's 2 PCMCIA slots, you can pop in whatever the latest and greatest hookup exists out there, currently something like FireWire Direct's Cardbus 800. Not that big a deal. (Remember, Avid, for those familiar in the video world, picked the ThinkPads as its base for its turnkey PC laptop for quite some time.)

[spalding12]

thank for the great info about that NON-Apple product. nice of you to fill me in.

greg

[esiegel]

I have a centrino notebook for work (dell d400 with 12.1 inch screen Pentium M @1.3 ), weighs 3.x pounds. 512M RAM, etc etc. I have a g4powerbook 550 at home.

The Dell is just fine, no problems at all (once they delivered the d)(*#$ think, don't get me started). The pbook has been through a new screen...which now has a dead pixel. It also has a very annoying problem with the cursor skipping around the screen randomly when I am typing (the touchpad sensitivity is set low). The Dell just works. The Dell also supports more tracks in Ableton Live, more synths in Reason, etc etc. It cost about the same amount.

I prefer the powerbook. OSX is just better to work with than XP as an end user, though I can get anything done with either of them that I need to.

Eric

Switch-hitter

[esiegel]

I have a centrino notebook for work (dell d400 with 12.1 inch screen Pentium M @1.3 ), weighs 3.x pounds. 512M RAM, etc etc. I have a g4powerbook 550 at home.

The Dell is just fine, no problems at all (once they delivered the d)(*#$ think, don't get me started). The pbook has been through a new screen...which now has a dead pixel. It also has a very annoying problem with the cursor skipping around the screen randomly when I am typing (the touchpad sensitivity is set low). The Dell just works. The Dell also supports more tracks in Ableton Live, more synths in Reason, etc etc. It cost about the same amount.

I prefer the powerbook. OSX is just better to work with than XP as an end user, though I can get anything done with either of them that I need to.

Eric

Switch-hitter

[buddy1065]

Even though the T40p is a business laptop it should have firewire. Don't tell me business folk don't use Powerpoint and other software that can use video for presentations. My prediction; to prove a point; the IBM will eventually get firewire. Another prediction; Sony will eventually give up on their pathetic shared memory when they see how far they are being left in the dust by not only Apple but Toshiba and other PC laptop makers. The 128 ATI Radeon is already on it's way into laptops. Indeed, some have them already. Don't tell me it's the heat. Apple figured a way to stuff a Ghz CPU into its 12". It's just marketing in my opinion. Squeeze out every nickel on a feature to keep the consumer wishing for more. A smart consumer will simply wait for what he wants. The 17" WILL see a 128 video chip soon.

This is it in my opinion; Apple made the most of what they were given. They could only go so far with the G4 CPU so they made up for it big time with video ports and other things. To this day I still don't see how the Centrino laptops are generally so handicapped; I have not seen one that can match the 15"/17" in features. Personally I would like to have both; a Centrino laptop side by side with my 17", but as long as Sony, IBM, Gateway and the like keep holding back I can also hold back my cash. I'm talking firewire. I'm talking light up keyboards. I'm talking non plastic casing. I'm talking big time GPU's. Apple is playing catch up with it's CPU; but if Bill Gates is not careful there will be a mass movement soon to Steve Jobs country. And it will all begin as soon as they plop a G5 into a laptop sucessfully.

[Chemmy]

Originally posted by michaelb:
As long as the Mac has a 1 GHz or higher chip to support Mac OS X (which I see as the minimum for this demanding OS) everything a PowerBook does is just fine.

OS X is much more RAM intensive than it is processor intensive. My 600mhz iBook without Quartz Extreme runs OS X flawlessly. It has 640mb of RAM.

Oh well, who cares? My 15" 1.25ghz G4 is on the way.

[bauhaus]

Originally posted by buddy1065:
Even though the T40p is a business laptop it should have firewire. Don't tell me business folk don't use Powerpoint and other software that can use video for presentations. My prediction; to prove a point; the IBM will eventually get firewire.

edited for brevity...

This is it in my opinion; Apple made the most of what they were given. They could only go so far with the G4 CPU so they made up for it big time with video ports and other things. To this day I still don't see how the Centrino laptops are generally so handicapped; I have not seen one that can match the 15"/17" in features. Personally I would like to have both; a Centrino laptop side by side with my 17", but as long as Sony, IBM, Gateway and the like keep holding back I can also hold back my cash. I'm talking firewire. I'm talking light up keyboards. I'm talking non plastic casing. I'm talking big time GPU's. Apple is playing catch up with it's CPU; but if Bill Gates is not careful there will be a mass movement soon to Steve Jobs country. And it will all begin as soon as they plop a G5 into a laptop sucessfully.

The IBM X series (smallest) has a firewire port. The T can ouput video in anyway necessary (plus, with it's thinness, it has pretty much every space filled with a port or a feature, short of losing a PCMCIA slot, it has no place to go-- and I much prefer the slots because I can choose what I need and when I need it.) As for casings, the T40p is far superior (Carbon Fiber, Magnesium, Titanium; all give extreme rigidity, do not discolour or scratch, great heat insulators, and light) than an Al case (corrodes from fingerprint oil/sweat, heat conductive, dents/malleable.) Side by side, the T40p whoops a 17"PB (I should know, I have both; 17"PB is the work machine and the T40p is my personal) As for GPUs, the 9600 on a Mac isn't going to make much of a difference compared to a 9000 if they both have the same amount of memory. The biggest features of the 9600 (DirectX 9 and AGP 8) aren't taken advantage of on a Mac so the only addition is a slightly higher GPU speed.

As for Sony laptops, it's plastic junk in my opinion (cheap casings, fuzzy LCDs-- they really aren't as clear and bright as other LCDs, shared graphics memory, 1 yr warranty.) For some reason those who like Macs seem to like Sonys (I chuck it up to the "shiny" factor or that Jobs said long ago in a meeting that the PowerBooks were targeting the Vaios.)

[lewdvig]

Actually the 9600 is way better than the 9000. The amount of memory has nothing to do with it.

It has a way higher fill rate and can push lots more triangles. Each generation has a bit better memory controller too. The 9600 has faster ram, and uses a 128bit memory controller. I think the 9000 was only 64bit. Memory bandwidth has a lot to do with overall performance.

Based on the scores I saw on Anandtech, the mobility 9600 is comparable to the desktop part.

It is made on a smaller manufacturing process so the chip needs less power and creates less heat.

It is also compatible with OGL 2.0.

So there are lots of reasons to like it better than the 9000.

[lewdvig]

There is no carbon fiber on the t40. If there is, I have not seen it. Polycarbonate is not carbon fiber.

The t40 is a fine machine. If you just do Office and Act! on the thing then yeah, it beats a PB.

I would rather have a mac. Synching PDAs and phones on a PC is frustrating (Activesync, Palm Desktop, Chapura, Intelesync, Ericsson and Nokia software - you end up with duplicate contacts, erased data, etc.). Sub $1000 video apps on the PC are HORRIBLE. Photo apps are pretty bad too. My Canon comes with their iPhoto rip off and it chugs on my P4M laptop. Mp3 software is available, but you gotta pay. WMP9 pushes windows drm ladden formats and give you low bitrate mp3 encoding.

Plus you can not do a clean install of the OS on the Thinkpad. You have to use their recovery disks, that makes a restore partition and preloads a crapload of 'quicklaunch' button drivers and IBM's proprietary power management software which sits over top of the perfectly usable MS stuff for no apperent reason.

And in a year when you finally give up on the t40 that costs so much today, you might get $700 for it.

[superlarry]

Originally posted by Chemmy:
OS X is much more RAM intensive than it is processor intensive. My 600mhz iBook without Quartz Extreme runs OS X flawlessly. It has 640mb of RAM.

Oh well, who cares? My 15" 1.25ghz G4 is on the way.

i'll agree that it's RAM-intensive, but also quite processor-intensive. sure, a 600 MHz iBook w/out Quartz Extreme will run fine, but it will do it slowly. as a comparison, do some stuff in OS9 to see how much more responsive it feels. windows has this advantage over OSX, while it lacks in overall easiness (in my opinion). what users notice is a machine's "snappiness," which is why microsoft put all their effort into providing it back in the days of win95.

[yoyoman]

wait till panther comes out. the speed will increase by a lot. I know because iv seen it beta in action. It is a lot faster than jaguar even with simple stuff. Then it will keep up with the centrino. But it is the whole package I like that is great about the power book not just raw speeds like fw800 and bluetooth or 802.11g gig ethernet no legacy ports etc. sutff like that is things I also look at besides raw speeds.

[workerbee]

Originally posted by lewdvig:
The 9600 has faster ram, and uses a 128bit memory controller. I think the 9000 was only 64bit. Memory bandwidth has a lot to do with overall performance.

Isn't the 128-bit bus only used when the GPU has 128Mb of RAM at its disposal? I thought I'd read that somewhere.
Anyway, the 9600 is certainly faster than the 9000 -- maybe it even almost makes up the difference between Windows and OS X drivers, as windows boxes consistently seem to get between 50 and 100% more fps out of the same hardware.

[bauhaus]

Originally posted by lewdvig:
There is no carbon fiber on the t40. If there is, I have not seen it. Polycarbonate is not carbon fiber.

Do a search on Ti-CFRP on IBM's website. The T's shell, short of the palm rest/keyboard is made of this amalgamation of materials with an internal Mg frame. There is also a research documents on the same material. Also, ABS is not polycarbonate (where the "P" in the acronymn above refers to ABS plastic, not polycarbonate which has a glassy finish like what is used in plastic sunglasses and the iBook shell)

The t40 is a fine machine. If you just do Office and Act! on the thing then yeah, it beats a PB.

And any other cross-platform application... I'd like you to point out one application that runs on both platforms where the PB will be faster. (quicktime player maybe, but even that is possibly not true since I've used it side by side to a 17"PB and though it seems more quirky on a PC platform, it still taxes the system less than on the 17"PB)

Photo apps are pretty bad too.

Adobe uses the T as it's reference laptop machine for performance with Photoshop.

Mp3 software is available, but you gotta pay. WMP9 pushes windows drm ladden formats and give you low bitrate mp3 encoding.

There is plenty of opensource software. You can use CDex with the LAME encoder for any level of encoding. WinAmp is still free. Also, WMP9 supports for mp3 encoding up to 320kb/s. (Plus, I don't use/touch wma formats)

Plus you can not do a clean install of the OS on the Thinkpad. You have to use their recovery disks, that makes a restore partition and preloads a crapload of 'quicklaunch' button drivers and IBM's proprietary power management software which sits over top of the perfectly usable MS stuff for no apperent reason.

That would be because IBM's software is superior and more geared towards a business user (items like Presentation Manager for handling multiple video outputs with a single key combo press; or the ThinkLight; or Access Connections which transparently handles connecting multiple networks, setting default printers, auto opening websites, etc... all without doing anything except moving to new locations; quite handy for a wireless computer.)

And in a year when you finally give up on the t40 that costs so much today, you might get $700 for it.

First of all, with a 3 year comprehensive warranty standard, why would I give it up in a year? Plus, TPs last a longtime, so why would I ever part with it? (On top of that, there are plenty of old TPs that still go for over $700; just because Apple is so slow to update tech in its PBs (10 months for a new 15"PB and then it's way too slow?!!) there are no options for moving up to "faster" which is why PBs hold value at all. When you have a 2 year old PB that is just a notch slower than the most current, of course it's going to hold value; but it also means you have no progress going on with the raw power...)


On a different note, 128bit controllers have been on graphics boards since at least 1994 (I have a Nvidia board with those specs though I can't recall the name now but it was a rev 2 of a previous "high-end" consumer board from them.) They are fairly standard now as you would expect in 9 years...