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FreeQuark · Jul 29, 2001, 01:46 AM

I find the new 17" flat screen Studio Display a complete disappointment for games. While the color depth is certainly the best I've ever seen on an LCD, the pixel response is still way too slow for gaming. For example, even though Q3 and other 1st person shooters work reasonably well when you're moving forward, any rotation or movement side to side and everything goes blurry. So far, all the 1st person shooters I've tried are basically unplayable, as the blurry graphics strain the eyes after a while. BTW, scrolling text on the new display is pretty lousy as well. You get the same sort of blurriness as with games, and also a strange kind of waviness. While some of these problems may be due to the video driver, there's little question that the current TFT technology is extrmely limited for graphics work. I actually wouldn't recommend an LCD to anyone who wanted to do more than web browsing, e-mail, and desktop publishing.

Given the limitations of LCD displays for gaming and that Apple has now committed itself to producing only LCDs, I think the gaming market for the Mac is dead. There's no way game developers are going to waste time on machines that are unfriendly to animated images. IMO, Apple should've waited for newer technologies before they discontinued CRTs. Of course maybe serious gamers will go out and buy 3rd party CRTs for their G4s, but I don't see that influencing game developers as Apple will apparently be using LCDs on their consumer-level iMacs. Games are designed for a broad customer base, not simply the high end machines.

Herr Newton · Jul 29, 2001, 03:20 AM

I haven't had the slightest problem with mine... just played Q3A myself and nary a sign of flicker. For the record, I'm one of those strange people that can still detect 100Hz refresh

Jul 29, 2001, 04:49 PM

I have the 17" LCD screen from Apple aswell. i play urban terror alot these days(www.urbanterror.net) and i dont have a single problem with blurring or whatever. it seems perfect to me. glad i got rid of my CRT

FreeQuark · Jul 29, 2001, 08:10 PM

I have the 17" LCD screen from Apple aswell. i play urban terror alot these days(www.urbanterror.net) and i dont have a single problem with blurring or whatever.

As I said, I tried Q3 as well as several other 1st person shooters and got the same problem with all of them. When I use the left or right arrow keys to rotate the scene, everything goes really blurry. When moving forward or back, everything looks o.k. I never had this problem with my old CRT, so I assume it has something to do with LCD technology. I am using ATI's Radeon 1.1.1 driver instead of Apple's driver, so that might be part of the problem, but having used LCDs before, I think it's mainly a shortcoming of the display.

blizzard · Jul 29, 2001, 11:30 PM

I would bet that the majority by far of Macs sold (monitorless ones, anyway) are sold without accompanying Apple monitors. Apple monitors have always been far more expensive than comparably sized generic monitors, which would keep most consumers from buying them. Where Apple monitors have traditionally shone, however, is in the graphics market, where their support for ColourSync and other graphics technologies makes them good choices, even considering their inflated price. Since game developers don't target professional equipment, but consumer equipment, I think the Mac will be a safe game haven, at least for the time being. As for the iMac, keep in mind that any talk about it at this point is simply conjecture - no one knows what the next generation will boast, be it LCD or CRT technology.

P.S For what it's worth, I was playing around with an Apple LCD hooked up to a Cube and was simply appalled by the blurriness that happened whenever I dragged a window around (this was in OS X). I don't know if there was a weird setting anywhere or anything, but it seemed to be nowhere near the level that a CRT could get. So I can believe what you're saying about games. It may be a simple matter of tolerance or preference, granted...

Leonard · Jul 31, 2001, 05:10 PM

I'm definitely not buying a LCD for my dual G4-800... I'm buying a CRT. I saw a nice Samsung 19", but I have to research it a bit more. I know it was hooked up to a G4 when I saw it.

blizzard · Jul 31, 2001, 10:34 PM

I can heartily recommend the Samsung 950p...looks great, huge size, all-around great monitor from my experience.

Leonard · Aug 1, 2001, 12:34 PM

Thanks Blizzard, I'm pretty sure that was the one I was looking at.

Aug 2, 2001, 07:31 AM

I don't have any problems with my 17" ADC LCD...None of the games I tried caused any blurriness whatsoever. Maybe you have a bad screen.

MiniMan · Sep 7, 2001, 09:34 AM

My problem is that I got left behind in the graphics cards stakes...
I bought an early Cube with the Rage 128 Pro before the Radeon was even a BTO option. I didn't buy an Radeon when they came out as my Cube was not very old and I was pissed with Apple at cutting the price so quickly. Now they've killed it all together and I didn't buy a card... Now it seems I can't get one even if I want to. Now that I've upgraded to the 17" LCD and bought Alice, I want to play it at full res and the Rage just can't cope.

Anyone know where I can get a Radeon card with the ADC connector..??

daydreamer · Sep 7, 2001, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by <Joe>:
<STRONG>I don't have any problems with my 17" ADC LCD...None of the games I tried caused any blurriness whatsoever. Maybe you have a bad screen.</STRONG>

hey Joe, wat video card do you have??

Hydra · Sep 7, 2001, 08:02 PM

Just out of curiousity, what rez are you trying to run Quake3 at? If you run an LCD at anything other than it's native rez you will get blurring that comes with the set pixel size of the LCD having to fake the other rezes. The problem is that with Quake3 running at 1280x1024 and all the eye-candy on you need a pretty hefty set-up to keep the fps up. With my set-up I'm near 100fps @ 1280x1024 so I wouldn't want to play at a lower rez anyway but that may be an issue for others.

I have a new 17 AppleLCD hooked up to my dual 800 G4 , 1.2 GB RAM and GF3 vid card and can tell you that Quake 3 has ZERO blur while turning at it's native rez of 1280x1024. I too was concerned about ghosting and blurring associated with lcd panels but can tell you that the Apple 17 LCD is clear and doesn't have any visual artifacts beyond the fact that the colors are not quite as vibrant as a crt's but definately worth the trade-off.

-Jerry C.

austeros · Sep 11, 2001, 12:15 AM

try outpost.com they had a bunch of cube radions awhile ago, pretty expensive though

AlanApple · Sep 13, 2001, 05:25 AM

I am half and half on this. I know exactly what you are talking about FreeQuark. I bought an 17" LCD and installed a Radeon (while I mention that, does anyone have the link for the latest Radeon drivers from Apple - I had a look but without much success). With Q3, Elite Force, A v P, and Tony Hawk the games play brilliant. The colour is sharp, there is no blurring and the Radeon is amazing. It really brings them to life. The only game I have a problem with is Tomb Raider TLR. Running forward there is no prob. But when I turn and stop there is a slight blur ripple which lasts all of a second. I am thinking it must be soemthing to do with the game. Last night I installed the latest GL drivers but I don't know if that will have an effect.

Let me know if you solve the problem.

Riddler · Sep 13, 2001, 12:40 PM

I have been playing Quake3 Urban Terror on my 17" Apple LCD for a couple of months now, it was perfect on the original GF2 and is perfect and mega fast on my GF3.

Try this:

a. Clean your glasses

b. Get the latest drivers, make sure you install the stuff that came with the display.
c. Make sure your playing at 1024x768 or higher.

Euphrates · Sep 13, 2001, 09:43 PM

Does installing the stuff that comes with the display make a real difference in the monitor performance? I remember seeing a while ago that you shouldn't install the software... maybe I was just dreaming(?).

joe · Sep 18, 2001, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by blizzard:
<STRONG>For what it's worth, I was playing around with an Apple LCD hooked up to a Cube and was simply appalled by the blurriness that happened whenever I dragged a window around (this was in OS X). I don't know if there was a weird setting anywhere or anything, but it seemed to be nowhere near the level that a CRT could get. So I can believe what you're saying about games. It may be a simple matter of tolerance or preference, granted...</STRONG>

Since I've had to use notebook PCs in my job for years, I'm very familiar with the motion blur problem you're describing. But at the same time, I've also played around a demo 15" Apple LCD (Circuit City) and 22" Apple Cinema LCD (Double Click Computers) - both on Cubes coincidentally. And in both cases they were astonishingly clean and clear, with no motion blurring that I could detect. And believe me, from years of using notebook LCDs I'm well aware of the problem. I'm not referring to the old passive matrix and DS LCDs. Even active matrix LCDs of the last 5 years can have motion blur. Since the Cubes/LCDs I saw on display did not suffer from motion blur, maybe the problem is related to the graphics card or graphics drivers on some setups? All I can say for certain is that I know the Apple Cubes/LCDs I tested did not suffer from motion blur....joe

Judge_Fire · Sep 18, 2001, 09:38 AM

I got the 17" too and have this question re: games:

Can I set the screen to show only 1024 x 768, with blacked out borders?

UT (Tactical-Ops, actually) doesn't let me do 1280 x 1024, so I keep it at 1024 x 768, which is also ok for a decent frame rate. (Cube 450, Radeon)

J