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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > It's official. Macbook Air

It's official. Macbook Air (Page 4)
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f1000
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by lowbuzz View Post
There seem to be 3 camps here: <whining mercifully clipped>
All you've been doing is make personal attacks against people who can apparently afford to purchase something that you so desire. Your sour grapes does nothing to rationalize your arguments and makes you sound like a self-centered loser. Should Apple NEVER cater to wealthier clientele, especially for greater profit? Unless you believe in Communism, you should be happy that Apple can apparently make a profit in any niche it decides to enter; that is, unless you're a Winblows troll.

Seriously, your irrational jealousy must make it very difficult to be around you. This thread was supposed to be about the MacBook Air, and not about the perceived inadequacies of the people who will purchase them.
     
f1000
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
4-pin Firewire?
Get the (future) dongle. Issue resolved.
     
chabig
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Pierre B. View Post
I would not be surprised to hear that the MBA gets indeed very hot after some time of use. My wife has a really big and thick Dell with a single P-M inside at 1.6 GHz, but if the CPU is taxed you can barely tolerate the heat on your lap. The MBA is much thinner and I guess Apple has pushed the thermal margins as much as they can go.
The MacBook Air machines at MacWorld ran all day under hot lights sitting on a black table. The bottom was barely warm.
     
lowbuzz
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:48 PM
 
Uhm... first, it's an anonymous message board - making it pretty much impossible to launch "personal attacks". Also, the statement about it being hard to be around me... you're creeping me out, dude. This is NOT the real world. I'm not actually in your space - and you can discern what to read and what not to read, no? I only read what I think is ripe for parody on here.

Anyway, now that I've landed on my MacBook Flair idea, I have to go about spreading that around "Hey look, there's the Metrosexual with the MacBook Flair!" Hopefully it'll catch on.

Seriously though - I'm very sorry if my jokes hurt your feelings, Paris. When Steve creates a computer for your dog, I'm sure you'll praise him for that, too.

I have to go sulk in self-pity now cuz I'm a communist troll who (ick) might actually screw themselves royally by even TRYING to work in Windows. Talk about personal attacks... those hurt, deeply.

Okay, I really have to stop this or my fiancee will actually kill me. She threatened yesterday to revoke my poking fun privileges for a week if I started back in on this again.

Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
All you've been doing is make personal attacks against people who can apparently afford to purchase something that you so desire. Your sour grapes does nothing to rationalize your arguments and makes you sound like a self-centered loser. Should Apple NEVER cater to wealthier clientele, especially for greater profit? Unless you believe in Communism, you should be happy that Apple can apparently make a profit in any niche it decides to enter; that is, unless you're a Winblows troll.

Seriously, your irrational jealousy must make it very difficult to be around you. This thread was supposed to be about the MacBook Air, and not about the perceived inadequacies of the people who will purchase them.
     
Eug
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Jan 17, 2008, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
Uh, I think you're missing the point here.

The MacBook Air is NOT meant to be a MacBook Pro. I don't understand why people are having trouble grasping that. Maybe its because Apple has never before made a laptop that didn't house everything in the same chassis. Maybe its because people were expecting a shrunken-down MacBook Pro (which is what I thought would be coming out).

Apple is going after the ultralight/ultrathin category, a VERY different market segment. I think Apple knows they wont sell 10 million $3000 laptops with missing ports or a small screen. But that hasn't stopped Sony, Dell, Toshiba, and many others?

Think Sony sells huge numbers of 11" Vaio TZ series machines with 1.06GHz ultra-low voltage processors? I don't. And they cost between $1800-$3500.

The ultralights have compromises - necessary to make 'em small and light. Don't like it, don't buy it. But Apple wont make a custom notebook just for you - they sell to what they think will be competitive.
Ultralights always have compromises.

However, I think Apple has made some "interesting" choices for their particular ultralight. One can only hope that they'll reconsider on one feature for future models, like they did with the Mac mini.


Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
Get the (future) dongle. Issue resolved.
The reason such dongles don't exist is technical. USB 2 and Firewire are fundamentally different. There are some hacks, but they're pretty kludgy.
     
brassplayersrock²
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Jan 17, 2008, 03:36 PM
 
lowbuzz is sounding more and more like $
     
butterfly0fdoom
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Jan 17, 2008, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
The trend started a while ago. The problem was Apple wanted too much money for licencing of Firewire, so everyone just said they'll use USB 2. However, where Firewire has stuck is in DV tape-based camcorders, which are still extremely popular and which will remain extremely popular for years to come. Right now there is no way to get DV onto the MacBook Air without the use of another computer.
Well, USB-compatible camcorder alternatives are being offered nowadays. The Flip video uses USB, SDHC camcorders can use USB card readers. If SDHC ends up succeeding DV (since HDDs are more of a side-market, not a replacement product), then even camcorders will have shifted to USB. Apple could be envisioning something like that occurring, which really isn't too far-fetched.
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Cadaver
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Jan 17, 2008, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by butterfly0fdoom View Post
Well, USB-compatible camcorder alternatives are being offered nowadays. The Flip video uses USB, SDHC camcorders can use USB card readers. If SDHC ends up succeeding DV (since HDDs are more of a side-market, not a replacement product), then even camcorders will have shifted to USB. Apple could be envisioning something like that occurring, which really isn't too far-fetched.
Plus, if you're plugging in video cameras to your laptop on the road, you're not the target audience for the MBA.

And as much as I want one, I'm thinking I would find a standard MacBook better (since I do need ethernet and since I would almost always need the optical drive with me).
     
lowbuzz
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Jan 17, 2008, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jonathan-Tanya View Post
Stop comparing this to a Porsche. When people drive a Porsche, some people cannot afford it, but you still look at it, and say, wow, nice car.

If you pull out your MacBook AirBrick, I'm going to laugh at you.
I'm not jealous, I'm just thinking wow Barnum was right, one is born every minute.
Nice. Also, dunno what $ means? Also, can a moderator just ban me - goofing on here is just too addictive.

Oh, does the Flair wake from sleep when the cookies are done or do you have to buy a timer dongle for that? Ha, he said dongle!

Ship her off to the Island of Misfit Toys.
     
Hi I'm Ben
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Jan 17, 2008, 04:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by lowbuzz View Post
blah blah blah etc etc etc
You're not funny. If you're trying to be, which I think you are with your sarcastic writing, it's just not. You're coming off as childish and utterly stupid. Mainly because you are completely ignorant of what people are telling you (aside that you've changed your typing since I last responded to your load of crap). Your "There are three camps here" completely missed the boat. As people have repeated, wanting this laptop has nothing to do with trying to be stylish (for most) or showing off how much money they have. Rather present an intelligent counter argument (see opinion) based on what people have told you I guess you find it more appropriate to shoot back with personal attacks, yes that's what they're called, and sprinkle in some of your nick names for Steve Jobs. I would hope that one day you get older enough to understand the world doesn't revolve around you, Apple Computer and "Professor Gadget" doesn't care what YOU want. This seems to be okay because every time mac world comes out people constantly critisize Apple and say how stupid they are, but every year Apple continues to make plenty of money.

The other thing people need to get away from is expecting Apple to release Jesus on a golden platter every single time they have a new product line.
Every product release isn't meant to trump all the other products they sell, it's generally meant to fill an area they feel they don't compete in. This time around it was the ultraportables. If you are completely in love with your MacBook or MacBook Pro or whatever it is you love, you really aren't intended to be head over heels for this.... And just because there might have been a product you wanted more than this, doesn't mean a company should cater to the business plan you want them to follow.
     
analogika
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Jan 17, 2008, 05:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
There isn't such a thing anywhere to convert firewire?
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
there are adaptors to make one head a firewire and one head a usb. it would still be the same speed as the output jack regardless
I am not aware of ANY such device existing.

Please, point me towards one - I'm *very* interested.
     
analogika
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Jan 17, 2008, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
Yeah, because Back In Teh Day, firewire was faster than usb 1.0 right? Now I think usb 2 and 2.1 are faster than firewire.
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
The trend started a while ago. The problem was Apple wanted too much money for licencing of Firewire, so everyone just said they'll use USB 2. However, where Firewire has stuck is in DV tape-based camcorders, which are still extremely popular and which will remain extremely popular for years to come. Right now there is no way to get DV onto the MacBook Air without the use of another computer.
Firewire is *still* faster for sustained data rates, and USB is not and will not be a replacement option for serious audio production.

Especially since FW 3200 is (hopefully) hitting the market pretty soon... *crosses fingers*
     
analogika
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Jan 17, 2008, 05:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by butterfly0fdoom View Post
Well, USB-compatible camcorder alternatives are being offered nowadays. The Flip video uses USB, SDHC camcorders can use USB card readers. If SDHC ends up succeeding DV (since HDDs are more of a side-market, not a replacement product), then even camcorders will have shifted to USB. Apple could be envisioning something like that occurring, which really isn't too far-fetched.
Well, there is just NO WAY you're going to be editing DV on a 1.8" iPod drive.

Or doing audio production.

So, for the moment, the subject of Firewire is a moot point, anyway.
     
Chuckit
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Jan 17, 2008, 05:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
Think Sony sells huge numbers of 11" Vaio TZ series machines with 1.06GHz ultra-low voltage processors? I don't. And they cost between $1800-$3500.
Note that at this point there is not a lot of demand for the MBA.

Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
Don't like it, don't buy it. But Apple wont make a custom notebook just for you - they sell to what they think will be competitive.
But now all of a sudden, asking for something that isn't specifically targeted at a ridiculously small niche is asking for "a custom notebook"?
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lowbuzz
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Jan 17, 2008, 05:31 PM
 
Hi Hi I'm Ben,

Couple of things - one is the bit about opinions requiring "intelligent counter arguments." Intelligence is entirely relative, and you'd have to form an opinion about that, no? You don't strike me as particularly intelligent - now that would be a personal attack, and the first one I would have made, although it's simply in jest.

As for your desire for me to take any of this seriously, you're just SOL. I think it's a stupid, pretentious toy for inbred socialites and a horrific disappointment.

But you're right that Steve doesn't have to spend even a second worrying about fulfilling my needs. He has a monopoly on the extremely productive machines and OS I use on a daily basis to run my business. He can make me wait as long as he wants.

I'm not a serious person and I don't expect anyone to take me seriously. And as I explained to the other forum veteran, all I've done here is mock the stereotype of who I believe might be the market for the Flair.

If you think you fall into that stereotype, rather than viewing yourself as an individual, pity for you.

But you might want to check your sphincter - removing that stick might free you to enjoy this silly world a bit more.

I live in America, one of the most diverse countries in the world, ruled by an elitist two party system. That's something I'd worry about enough to bother taking seriously.

Apple and their MacBook Flair? Don't think so.

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben View Post
Rather present an intelligent counter argument (see opinion) based on what people have told you I guess you find it more appropriate to shoot back with personal attacks, yes that's what they're called, and sprinkle in some of your nick names for Steve Jobs.

This time around it was the ultraportables. If you are completely in love with your MacBook or MacBook Pro or whatever it is you love, you really aren't intended to be head over heels for this.... And just because there might have been a product you wanted more than this, doesn't mean a company should cater to the business plan you want them to follow.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 05:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
But now all of a sudden, asking for something that isn't specifically targeted at a ridiculously small niche is asking for "a custom notebook"?
OK, I'll give you that.

Had Apple included just one more port on it, an ethernet port or a USB port or a FireWire port, and I think many people's concerns would be alleviated. But then again, people said the same thing about a floppy drive on an iMac.

I do believe, however, that for a significant number of people looking at the MBA, that the regular MacBook would be a better choice. Nothing wrong with that - many people would be better off with an iMac over a Mac Pro, too.

Its a different tool, not necessarily a better tool for everyone. But I don't think its doomed to failure. Certainly though its not targeted at the mainstream.

I'll insert my boilerplate - I want one, too, but I'd probably be better off with a MacBook. Through work, I can buy one laptop every two years - will I regret not getting an ultralight, or will I find myself schlepping twelve different dongles and an external CD drive around with me, which will add back up to the weight and space saved in the first place.


...adding lowbuzz to my ignore list...
     
Eug
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Jan 17, 2008, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Well, there is just NO WAY you're going to be editing DV on a 1.8" iPod drive.

Or doing audio production.

So, for the moment, the subject of Firewire is a moot point, anyway.
That is what I was wondering actually. Can a 2008-model 1.8" 4200 rpm drive import DV without dropped frames?

It used to be problematic with 2.5" drives, but nowadays DV import is not a problem with 2.5" drives. Have 1.8" drives matured enough to support DV import?


Originally Posted by analogika View Post
I am not aware of ANY such device existing.

Please, point me towards one - I'm *very* interested.
I've seen one mentioned at some online site before. However, it was some unknown manufacturer, and didn't support anything natively. Basically what it did was supposedly allow some Firewire DV cameras transfer stuff over USB to the hard drive, using a custom driver and custom software. From there then you could then use your editing program of choice to reimport the data off the hard drive.

It didn't actually emulate Firewire as far as the computer was concerned. The cable had some chip set in it that must have been doing the translation, but the computer was seeing USB. Oh and it was XP only.

Given that I've never seen in a mainstream brand, and you never hear about it, I suspect it barely even worked.

EDIT:

Here we go:

USB to FireWire DV Adapter - NTSC - US Version
http://www.usbfirewire.com/brochures...o.FireWire.pdf

Versatility -This unique and revolutionary device will allow you to connect your DV NTSC or PAL (separate versions) camcorder to the USB 2.0 Port on your computer. NTSC is normally a US Video Format, whereas PAL is normally a European format.

Quality –This device and manufactured in Japan it meets and exceeds both USB 2.0 and IEEE 1394 Standards and RoHS Standards. We back each device with our “100% Satisfaction Guarantee” – to help you buy with confidence.

Why would you need this?
Until now – connecting any FireWire device through a USB port has not existed. This is a step closer towards the ability of converging both USB and FireWire. The USB to FireWire DV Adapter will allow you to continue using your IEEE 1394 camcorder and to download the images through your existing USB Port, without the hassle of modifying your Laptop or PC.

Current Markets and Applications:
- Professional Photography
- Audio / Video Editing
- Advertising
- Prototype Testing
- Security / Surveillance
- Digital Recording

Specifications:
- Not Mac Compatible
- Supports DV (NTSC and PAL)
- Windows XP SP1
- Plug and Play and Hot Swappable
- Size: 104.0 x 32.0 x 16.4mm
- Unit Length: 44 inches
- Cable Length: 1120mm
- Power: USB Bus Power
- Electrical Consumption: 300mW
- USB Connector: USB Type A
- IEEE 1394 Connector: 4 pin
- Still Image: BMP and JPEG
- Movie: NTSC and PAL Versions
- Audio: DV Audio
- Install. Of Windows XP SP1 (or above) and QFE is required
( Last edited by Eug; Jan 17, 2008 at 06:36 PM. )
     
Jasoco
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Jan 17, 2008, 06:31 PM
 
Okay. My MacBook Air lust is gone. Now I've hit reality.

I will wait for the cool features of the MacBook Air to trickle down into the current MacBook's and MacBook Pro's.

They could use their micro knowledge to make the current MB's and MBP's lighter. At least shave off a pound maybe. Make them slightly thinner.

Integrate the multitouch trackpad into the new models like how the two finger scrolling made its way across the line.

All MB's and MBP's will eventually be LED backlit. This is a given. The deadline is the end of the year.

The way it is, the MacBook's could stand a redesign. Keep the keyboard, but shave off a half an inch from all four sides. There's a lot of wasted space around the edges.

The Pro's are stale. They've had the same outdated design since they came out. The keyboard doesn't match anymore, I would think now that the Air has the new Apple standard chicklet keyboard the Pro will get it too. Backlighting and all. (Man I'd love if the regular MB's had this too.) The latch is still a button instead of the magnetic latch. They really need a redo. I am going to place my bets now that there will be a brand new MBP redesign by the end of Summer. September's France expo at the latest.
     
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Jan 17, 2008, 07:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
USB 2 is faster than Firewire on paper. However, Firewire is faster than USB 2 is the real-world. Anyways, the iPod mini supported USB 2 as well.
Sure, if you ignore the real world chipset constraints. The USB2/FW iPods were faster on USB2 than FW, despite being nowhere near the real-world capability of either.

Originally Posted by Eug View Post
4-pin Firewire?
Oh yea, just queue the "no power" b!tching.
Really, you want to edit DV on a machine with such a small disk?

Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
Get the (future) dongle. Issue resolved.
Not gonna happen.

Originally Posted by analogika View Post
Firewire is *still* faster for sustained data rates, and USB is not and will not be a replacement option for serious audio production.

Especially since FW 3200 is (hopefully) hitting the market pretty soon... *crosses fingers*
Could (e)SATA become an option for serious audio production? It offers higher sustained data rates, lower latency, lower power consumption, cheaper chipsets, and smaller ports.

Originally Posted by Eug View Post
That is what I was wondering actually. Can a 2008-model 1.8" 4200 rpm drive import DV without dropped frames?

It used to be problematic with 2.5" drives, but nowadays DV import is not a problem with 2.5" drives. Have 1.8" drives matured enough to support DV import?
For a sequential transfer, it would probably be fine; DV is only about 3.75MBps. Much seeking and you're screwed.
     
Chuckit
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Jan 17, 2008, 07:31 PM
 
Man, I hope they're don't replace the PowerBook-style keyboard on the pro. That keyboard is so nice-feeling.
Chuck
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butterfly0fdoom
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Jan 17, 2008, 08:00 PM
 
The rate things are going, the MBP is probably going to be getting a magentic latch and the Scrabble keyboard,
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hempcamp
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Jan 18, 2008, 12:09 AM
 
Wow, utterly shocked that a new Apple product announcement would create such fury. (Just kidding, it happens every time they announce something new. "Waaaaaaaaa, mommy, this new gizmo doesn't do what I want it to do! Me me me me me.")

For me, it's not what Apple chose to leave out on the Air, it's what they chose to keep. Screen size and usable keyboard are the two things most important to me in an ultra-portable computer, which is why until now I have put off buying an eee PC or the like. I could care less about USB, Firewire, optical drive, and RJ-45 ethernet when I'm on the road. That's what my desktop at home is for.

Also, I'm willing to pay a premium for style. There's nothing wrong with that. That's one of the reasons I use any Apple product (aside from OS X, the main reason).

--Chris
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butterfly0fdoom
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Jan 18, 2008, 02:31 AM
 
For me, it's not what Apple chose to leave out on the Air, it's what they chose to keep. Screen size and usable keyboard are the two things most important to me in an ultra-portable computer, which is why until now I have put off buying an eee PC or the like. I could care less about USB, Firewire, optical drive, and RJ-45 ethernet when I'm on the road. That's what my desktop at home is for.

Also, I'm willing to pay a premium for style. There's nothing wrong with that. That's one of the reasons I use any Apple product (aside from OS X, the main reason).
It's people with that mentality that Apple is gunning after with the MacBook Air.
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Gee4orce
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Jan 18, 2008, 05:21 AM
 
I'm left thinking that Apple still has room to ship a sub-sub notebook; something below the Macbook - a Macbook 'nano' perhaps...

Something that's as much iPhone as Macbook. Perhaps running a 1.2GHz CD, 1 GB RAM and a couple of USB ports and small screen. The same market that the EEPC seems to have all to itself at the moment.

Is there a market for the Macbook Air ? Absolutely ! I'm in it - I don't use 3/4 of the features and ports on my Macbook as it is. Am I going to get one ? Probably not, because from where I stand now it means spending a whole chunk of change to 'upgrade' to a machine with a slower CPU, no optical drive and fewer ports.

If I didn't already have a Macbook though, I probably would go for the Air because of the weight saving and better battery life.
     
Eug
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Jan 18, 2008, 10:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Gee4orce View Post
Is there a market for the Macbook Air ? Absolutely ! I'm in it - I don't use 3/4 of the features and ports on my Macbook as it is. Am I going to get one ? Probably not, because from where I stand now it means spending a whole chunk of change to 'upgrade' to a machine with a slower CPU, no optical drive and fewer ports.

If I didn't already have a Macbook though, I probably would go for the Air because of the weight saving and better battery life.
The claimed battery life on the MacBook Air (5 hrs) is worse than the MacBook (6 hrs).
     
msuper69
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Jan 18, 2008, 11:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by lowbuzz View Post
This place is like Apple Fanboy heaven.

If I even see anyone walking around with one of those things, I'm gonna have to pull a Dirty Harry.

Cuz hey - if you can throw your money away on one of those things - I can take yours and you can go just buy a new one, right?

Then I can just put it in shrinkwrap, save it for a few years - and sell it for like $10k on eBay -

It'll definitely be a rarity. So on the other hand, go out and buy one if you're loaded. It'll be worth something someday.
This place is not "like" Apple Fanboy heaven; it "IS' Apple Fanboy heaven. Does the MacNN give you a hint?

And just try taking my MBA. How would you like a size 10 up your keester?

Dumbass.
     
msuper69
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Jan 18, 2008, 05:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by f1000 View Post
All you've been doing is make personal attacks against people who can apparently afford to purchase something that you so desire. Your sour grapes does nothing to rationalize your arguments and makes you sound like a self-centered loser. Should Apple NEVER cater to wealthier clientele, especially for greater profit? Unless you believe in Communism, you should be happy that Apple can apparently make a profit in any niche it decides to enter; that is, unless you're a Winblows troll.

Seriously, your irrational jealousy must make it very difficult to be around you. This thread was supposed to be about the MacBook Air, and not about the perceived inadequacies of the people who will purchase them.


Well said. I couldn't care less what over people think anyways. It's my life and I'll do what I want...
     
lowbuzz
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Jan 18, 2008, 09:47 PM
 


In all lack of seriousness, I deeply apologize for offending anyone's delicate sensibilities concerning the attributes of the wonderful MacBook Air. If you want, I'll argue your side - it's all fun and games to me.

Anyway - as the recipient of an offical MacNN infraction penalty, I'll sit this out.

And ref - did you catch that dumbass remark? Triple infraction - 15 yards, loss of down.

Originally Posted by msuper69 View Post
This place is not "like" Apple Fanboy heaven; it "IS' Apple Fanboy heaven. Does the MacNN give you a hint?

And just try taking my MBA. How would you like a size 10 up your keester?

Dumbass.
     
mavherzog
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Jan 18, 2008, 09:49 PM
 
My biggest issue with the MacBook Air is the footprint. I thought for sure the new MacBook Air would have at least a marginally smaller footprint than the MacBook. Instead, it is BIGGER!! (MacBook: 12.78" x 8.92" - MacBook Air: 12.8" x 8.94")

Sure, it's thinner...but the MBA is going to take up (marginally) MORE space in your briefcase, more space on your airplane tray table, etc. than the more powerful and cheaper MacBook.

I think the MacBook Air looks cool...but a laptop's "thinness" really doesn't have any real-world benefit for me. However, its footprint certainly does.
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 18, 2008, 10:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by mavherzog View Post
My biggest issue with the MacBook Air is the footprint. I thought for sure the new MacBook Air would have at least a marginally smaller footprint than the MacBook. Instead, it is BIGGER!! (MacBook: 12.78" x 8.92" - MacBook Air: 12.8" x 8.94")

Sure, it's thinner...but the MBA is going to take up (marginally) MORE space in your briefcase, more space on your airplane tray table, etc. than the more powerful and cheaper MacBook.

I think the MacBook Air looks cool...but a laptop's "thinness" really doesn't have any real-world benefit for me. However, its footprint certainly does.
You bring up a very good point. That is one reason why I still love my 12" PBG4. Although it's a ton heavier and thicker, it's a lot smaller as far as footprint goes.
     
Eug
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Jan 18, 2008, 10:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
You bring up a very good point. That is one reason why I still love my 12" PBG4. Although it's a ton heavier and thicker, it's a lot smaller as far as footprint goes.
'Tis true. The easiest to use Mac laptops I've used on a plane were my 12" iBooks. The footprint of my 13" MacBook makes it a bit more annoying in coach on some planes.
     
mduell
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Jan 19, 2008, 09:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
The claimed battery life on the MacBook Air (5 hrs) is worse than the MacBook (6 hrs).
There are reports from MWSF that the quoted battery lives are under different circumstances.

MacBook: Everything off, screen dimmed, CPU idle.
MacBook Air: Wifi/BT on, screen between half and full, running moderate load of productivity apps.
     
His Dudeness
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Jan 20, 2008, 07:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by mavherzog View Post
My biggest issue with the MacBook Air is the footprint. I thought for sure the new MacBook Air would have at least a marginally smaller footprint than the MacBook. Instead, it is BIGGER!! (MacBook: 12.78" x 8.92" - MacBook Air: 12.8" x 8.94")

Sure, it's thinner...but the MBA is going to take up (marginally) MORE space in your briefcase, more space on your airplane tray table, etc. than the more powerful and cheaper MacBook.

I think the MacBook Air looks cool...but a laptop's "thinness" really doesn't have any real-world benefit for me. However, its footprint certainly does.
You're joking right? It's practically the same size. It's not like the Air is bigger than Macbook Pro for God's sake. You're talking not even what? I half in square?
     
shafj
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Jan 20, 2008, 08:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Note that at this point there is not a lot of demand for the MBA.
And what do you base this on? Do you know what the pre-order figures are? Have you conducted a survey of potential buyers? Did some market research?
     
analogika
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Jan 20, 2008, 10:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Could (e)SATA become an option for serious audio production? It offers higher sustained data rates, lower latency, lower power consumption, cheaper chipsets, and smaller ports.
It already is - people are adding eSATA cards to the MacBook Pro Cardbus slots for recording storage.

For audio interfaces, though, the primary problem I see is that eSATA currently does not offer bus power.

The standards gremium is, however, supposedly working on a bus-powered eSATA standard to be decided upon by the end of the year.

So maybe this will be a viable Firewire replacement a few years down the road.
     
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Jan 20, 2008, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by butterfly0fdoom View Post
The rate things are going, the MBP is probably going to be getting a magentic latch and the Scrabble keyboard,
And a magnetic latch on the MBP would be a bad thing?
     
icruise
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Jan 20, 2008, 12:20 PM
 
I personally would have liked the MBA to have a smaller bezel around the screen, but I have a feeling that one way they were able to get it so thin was by having a fair amount of horizontal space to fit components in. You have to put this stuff somewhere.

I also think that people aren't fully appreciating the difference that thinness (and lightness) can make in terms of how a notebook feels. I remember a notebook that Sharp put out a several years ago in Japan that was very similar to the MBA in many respects (very thin, no optical drive, etc.) When I saw it person, I was blown away at how thin it was, and how good it felt in the hand, and the MBA is apparently even thinner. And of course, the Sharp was a very anemic machine, while the MBA should be a very good performer, if slower than the others in Apple's lineup.
     
butterfly0fdoom
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Jan 20, 2008, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
And a magnetic latch on the MBP would be a bad thing?
I don't object to it. The physical latch on the MBP was what made me opt for an MB instead (really trivial and stupid, yes, but I don't like struggling to open my iBook). Just pointing out the progression of Apple products.
MacBook Core 2 Duo 2.16 (Black)
iPod classic 160GB
iPhone 8GB
     
MacosNerd
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Jan 20, 2008, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by butterfly0fdoom View Post
The rate things are going, the MBP is probably going to be getting a magentic latch and the Scrabble keyboard,
Having owned both a MB and an MBP, I had to say I really do like the magnetic latch of the MB. They keyboard is a personal preference and I don't really care for it, though I think others do.
     
theokandroid
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Jan 21, 2008, 03:59 AM
 
To be honest Im quite dissapointed. I have an iMac as of right now, but Im going to be traveling a lot during the summer. I don't want a MacBook because of the glossy screen integrated graphics card, and the plastic casing. But then the Macbook Pro has too large of a footprint. The MacBook air is nice, but it still has a large footprint, and is way to restricted for my needs. So now Im stuck without a choice that will work for me.

Listen to the customers Apple, bring back the 12" Powerbook in Macbook Pro form. It should have a smaller footprint, be thin, aluminum, backlit keyboard, LED screen. Optical Drive, and at least 120gb hdd.

Hell Ill be happy with an aluminum MacBook.
     
Jasoco
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Jan 21, 2008, 04:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by butterfly0fdoom View Post
I don't object to it. The physical latch on the MBP was what made me opt for an MB instead (really trivial and stupid, yes, but I don't like struggling to open my iBook). Just pointing out the progression of Apple products.
Yeah, I think the magnetic latch as well as the MagSafe™ power adapter are two of the greatest inventions for laptops. I recently got my old G3 iBook back and those two missing features coupled with the old style keyboard seemed so strange and foreign to me after so long. I am so used to my superior MacBook's magnets and chicklets.

Long live the MacBook.
     
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Jan 21, 2008, 05:11 PM
 
So, Friday night I pulled the HD from my MacBook Pro and dropped it into my wife's MacBook (both Core Duo machines, MBP 2.16GHz, MB 2.0GHz), and put her hard drive into the MacBook Pro.

I did this to try out the 13" glossy screen for a while to see if I could live with it on the MacBook Air. I also wanted to see if the MacBook "felt" any smaller since its really only 0.4 lbs lighter and actually 0.1" thicker.

After using it all weekend, I've come to interesting conclusions. First is the size of the screen, which I think is OK. I've re-discovered Spaces in Leopard, which helps quite a bit as application windows now often occupy most of the screen. The glossiness of the screen doesn't seem to bother me nearly as much as I thought it would, and I may even prefer it to the matte screen of my (former) MacBook Pro. I don't mind the keyboard - I use a new-style Apple wireless anyway, so its essentially the same thing. Battery life is good and the machine doesn't scorch my lap like the MBP did.

I don't really have anything negative to say, actually, about the MacBook compared with the MacBook Pro. I don't play games on the laptop, so the GMA 950 integrated graphics in my (wife's) MacBook doesn't seem to bother me nearly as much as I thought it might. Keynote effects and such seem to be just fine. And for me, the size/weight of the MacBook is much better than the MacBook Pro.

The Bad? Well, now I'm wondering even more if I really need (want) a MacBook Air. I might be just as happy with, say, a 2.2GHz black MacBook. Maybe put a 64GB or 128GB SSD in it in a year or so when the price comes down. I can certainly live with 2GB on a laptop, so the Airbook is OK there, but the potential for 4GB is tempting. If the MacBook had an LED screen backlight, I'd even more strongly consider the MB over the MBA.

I still think the MBA is a very cool machine, but I might just be a MacBook guy.
     
Pierre B.
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Jan 21, 2008, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
So, Friday night I pulled the HD from my MacBook Pro and dropped it into my wife's MacBook (both Core Duo machines, MBP 2.16GHz, MB 2.0GHz), and put her hard drive into the MacBook Pro.

I did this to try out the 13" glossy screen for a while to see if I could live with it on the MacBook Air.
And you swapped the HD just for that?
     
0157988944
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Jan 21, 2008, 05:22 PM
 
It makes sense... he wants to try it with his files and programs, not hers.
     
Eug
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Jan 21, 2008, 05:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
So, Friday night I pulled the HD from my MacBook Pro and dropped it into my wife's MacBook (both Core Duo machines, MBP 2.16GHz, MB 2.0GHz), and put her hard drive into the MacBook Pro.

I did this to try out the 13" glossy screen for a while to see if I could live with it on the MacBook Air. I also wanted to see if the MacBook "felt" any smaller since its really only 0.4 lbs lighter and actually 0.1" thicker.

After using it all weekend, I've come to interesting conclusions. First is the size of the screen, which I think is OK. I've re-discovered Spaces in Leopard, which helps quite a bit as application windows now often occupy most of the screen. The glossiness of the screen doesn't seem to bother me nearly as much as I thought it would, and I may even prefer it to the matte screen of my (former) MacBook Pro. I don't mind the keyboard - I use a new-style Apple wireless anyway, so its essentially the same thing. Battery life is good and the machine doesn't scorch my lap like the MBP did.

I don't really have anything negative to say, actually, about the MacBook compared with the MacBook Pro. I don't play games on the laptop, so the GMA 950 integrated graphics in my (wife's) MacBook doesn't seem to bother me nearly as much as I thought it might. Keynote effects and such seem to be just fine. And for me, the size/weight of the MacBook is much better than the MacBook Pro.

The Bad? Well, now I'm wondering even more if I really need (want) a MacBook Air. I might be just as happy with, say, a 2.2GHz black MacBook. Maybe put a 64GB or 128GB SSD in it in a year or so when the price comes down. I can certainly live with 2GB on a laptop, so the Airbook is OK there, but the potential for 4GB is tempting. If the MacBook had an LED screen backlight, I'd even more strongly consider the MB over the MBA.

I still think the MBA is a very cool machine, but I might just be a MacBook guy.
Yeah, I like the MacBook too. The only thing I really don't like about it is the glossy screen. Usually it's quite OK, but under certain lighting it can get annoying.

Actually, I would prefer if it dropped 1 lb in weight, but I'm not interested in the MacBook Air because of its noticeably higher cost and lack of Firewire and Ethernet, as well as its uber slow hard drive.
     
Mrjinglesusa
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Jan 21, 2008, 06:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by mavherzog View Post
My biggest issue with the MacBook Air is the footprint. I thought for sure the new MacBook Air would have at least a marginally smaller footprint than the MacBook. Instead, it is BIGGER!! (MacBook: 12.78" x 8.92" - MacBook Air: 12.8" x 8.94")

Sure, it's thinner...but the MBA is going to take up (marginally) MORE space in your briefcase, more space on your airplane tray table, etc. than the more powerful and cheaper MacBook.

I think the MacBook Air looks cool...but a laptop's "thinness" really doesn't have any real-world benefit for me. However, its footprint certainly does.
Are you serious??!?? 0.02" in each dimension and you are complaining because the footprint is "bigger" than the MacBook?

I doubt 0.02" x 0.02" is going to make ANY difference to ANYONE.
2.3GHz i7 15" Retina Macbook Pro (Late 2013)
     
Pierre B.
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Jan 21, 2008, 07:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by adamfishercox View Post
It makes sense... he wants to try it with his files and programs, not hers.
There are much more easy and obvious ways to do that than opening two Apple notebooks to swap the HD (you can say that the Macbook doesn't counts since it is really easy, but still). Unless we talk about something really special.
     
mavherzog
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Jan 21, 2008, 08:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by His Dudeness View Post
You're joking right? It's practically the same size. It's not like the Air is bigger than Macbook Pro for God's sake. You're talking not even what? I half in square?
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Are you serious??!?? 0.02" in each dimension and you are complaining because the footprint is "bigger" than the MacBook?

I doubt 0.02" x 0.02" is going to make ANY difference to ANYONE.
I think you two are missing my point. Which is, of course, that the MacBook Air gives you zero footprint advantage over the MacBook. If the MacBook is too big for your portability needs, the MacBook Air is NOT the answer.
     
0157988944
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Jan 21, 2008, 08:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Pierre B. View Post
There are much more easy and obvious ways to do that than opening two Apple notebooks to swap the HD (you can say that the Macbook doesn't counts since it is really easy, but still). Unless we talk about something really special.
It's faster than switching the data, which would require at best a firewire cable, but if you don't want to go crazy, you'd need an external drive, and by the time its all said and done, you could have swapped HDs like 5 times.
     
icruise
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Jan 21, 2008, 08:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by mavherzog View Post
If the MacBook is too big for your portability needs, the MacBook Air is NOT the answer.
But of course that all depends on how you define size. I can guarantee you that a MBA will "feel" smaller than a MBP because of its decreased weight and thickness.
     
 
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