[heresiarh]

This is the problem, Germany and Japan cannot be compared to ME. They were two seperate countries on their own. ME contains many countries, none of them are democrats at heart.

[BigMeatyChunks]

None of Europe really had a history of democracy either. Neither did Japan. But once the common people had a chance to decide once the totalitarian governments were destroyed then democracy finally got a chance.

[christ]

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
None of Europe really had a history of democracy either.

Oh, a history buff I see.

[heresiarh]

Hehe.

[BigMeatyChunks]

Originally posted by heresiarh:
This is the problem, Germany and Japan cannot be compared to ME. They were two seperate countries on their own. ME contains many countries, none of them are democrats at heart.

The common people do want democracy. Just take a trip there and ask them. One of my favorite restaurant owners is from Iran and he's just waiting until the totalitarian regime is gone so he can go back. Even now with the allegations of abuse regarding the American army and Iraqi prisoners he's still supportive of the long term goals of America.

[christ]

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
The common people do want democracy. Just take a trip there and ask them. One of my favorite restaurant owners is from Iran and he's just waiting until the totalitarian regime is gone so he can go back. Even now with the allegations of abuse regarding the American army and Iraqi prisoners he's still supportive of the long term goals of America.

Where does he live?

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
The common people do want democracy. Just take a trip there and ask them. One of my favorite restaurant owners is from Iran and he's just waiting until the totalitarian regime is gone so he can go back. Even now with the allegations of abuse regarding the American army and Iraqi prisoners he's still supportive of the long term goals of America.

Yep.

These days it is probably safer to not take a chance with opinions and politics...

[heresiarh]

That is just one shop owner. Iran is a theocratic state. In middle eastern countries, it is the poor people who are frustrated because they get no state help. The people in power throughout the Middle East are western puppets.

[BigMeatyChunks]

But the poor people want democracy. They just don't have a way to achieve it at this point. Iran, for example, is full of democracy-wanting citizens except that none of them are in positions to do much about it right now.

[heresiarh]

A region where democracy never existed, and everything is based on Islamic law which is a very good law dealing with criminal and financial matters. even if that region went over to democracy, they will always be true believers of Islamic law at heart, and as a muslim, it is their duty to follow the Islamic law, not western laws. Just because we live in a democracy does not make us better. sutdy their patterns over time, muslim empires have always been extremely successful and very liberal i might add, but since the colonialism era, everything has gone down hill due to corruption.

one key thing about islam is that it teaches utmost respect of women and they have equal rights to men. this cannot be seen in the Mid East nowadays because the governments are corrupt and have twisted the law according to their liking. this is a long debate, i'll stop here for now.

[christ]

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
Iran, for example, is full of democracy-wanting citizens.

Apparently not - they seem to have all moved to the US and opened restaurants.

[Sandbaggins]

Originally posted by christ:
Apparently not - they seem to have all moved to the US and opened restaurants.

A bunch in Los Angeles.

[eklipse]

'Democracy' and 'Islam' are not mutually-exclusive terms - Islam is, at it's heart, a democratic system - as far as I know, there is nothing in the Qur'an about self-appointed rulers and dictatorships. The problem is that most of the governments today that purport to be Islamic are, in reality, far from it. This is probably why when Westerners hear the phrase 'Islamic theocracy', they are immediately scared off - if there were better implementations of Islamic governments in the world today it might be a different story.

[heresiarh]

Originally posted by eklipse:
'Democracy' and 'Islam' are not mutually-exclusive terms - Islam is, at it's heart, a democratic system - as far as I know, there is nothing in the Qur'an about self-appointed rulers and dictatorships. The problem is that most of the governments today that purport to be Islamic are, in reality, far from it. This is probably why when Westerners hear the phrase 'Islamic theocracy', they are immediately scared off - if there were better implementations of Islamic governments in the world today it might be a different story.

You spoke my words.

[AKcrab]

Oops. The government had "bad data".

The State Department acknowledged Thursday there were errors in its latest report on global terrorism that greatly understated the number of terrorist attacks and resultant casualties last year. It insists that this was not a deliberate attempt to make the Bush administration's record on fighting terrorism appear better than it was.

In an embarrassing admission, the State Department has acknowledged that the global terrorism report it issued in late April contained significant errors and that a corrected edition being prepared will show that terrorist attacks and fatalities in 2003 increased, rather than declined as initially stated.

[Spheric Harlot]

Watch Dubya sell that as a success on TV tomorrow, because "We must be hitting them where it hurts."

[Atomic Rooster]

Haven't read the thread but i just read in the paper, I think it was yesterday, terror attacks were higher than ever in 2003.

[Spliffdaddy]

not in the USA.

The only countries showing a rise in terror attacks are Iraq and countries that opposed the liberation of Iraq.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
not in the USA.

The only countries showing a rise in terror attacks are Iraq and countries that opposed the liberation of Iraq.

1920
Sept. 16, New York City: TNT bomb planted in unattended horse-drawn wagon exploded on Wall Street opposite House of Morgan, killing 35 people and injuring hundreds more. Bolshevist or anarchist terrorists believed responsible, but crime never solved.
1975
Jan. 24, New York City: bomb set off in historic Fraunces Tavern killed 4 and injured more than 50 people. Puerto Rican nationalist group (FALN) claimed responsibility, and police tied 13 other bombings to the group.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
April 19, Oklahoma City: car bomb exploded outside federal office building, collapsing wall and floors. 168 people were killed, including 19 children and 1 person who died in rescue effort. Over 220 buildings sustained damage. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols later convicted in the antigovernment plot to avenge the Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, Tex., exactly two years earlier. (See Miscellaneous Disasters.)
2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed two commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; two more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9951: 2,752 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.)

5 U.S. attacks since 1920. The fact that there hasn't been one since 2001 means squat.

source

[badidea]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
not in the USA.

The only countries showing a rise in terror attacks are Iraq and countries that opposed the liberation of Iraq.

Well, then thanks very much!!

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
The common people do want democracy. Just take a trip there and ask them. One of my favorite restaurant owners is from Iran and he's just waiting until the totalitarian regime is gone so he can go back. Even now with the allegations of abuse regarding the American army and Iraqi prisoners he's still supportive of the long term goals of America.

You are absolutely right, that the muslims want democracy, but and that is the point, the US doesn't want them to have democracy. Many people forget that the dictator-ships in the islamic countries are mostly US-installed and US-supported puppet-regimes since the US took control over the colonies of Britain and France after worldwar2..

If the US would just stop supporting the dictatorships and not intervene regardless of what revolutions might occur, the dictatorships would be toppled and in long-term-view democracies would be created, and these deomocracies would even work together creating a sort of United-States of Islam..., but the US obviously doesn't want that, as it would mean a big islamic souvereign state would be established that could compete with the US ideologically, culturally, economically and military...

Taliesin

[PacHead]

Originally posted by AKcrab:
5 U.S. attacks since 1920. The fact that there hasn't been one since 2001 means squat.

Pardon my ignorance, but why are you linking to something that has little to do with the current war or situation that we are in ? Who cares about what some anarchists/bolsheviks/whatever did in 1920, and what do Puerto Ricans have to do with anything ? What does the Oklahoma bombing have to do with our current war ? I thought we caught those guys, am I mistaken ?

The fact that there has been no major terror attack on our soil since 2001 is pretty damn significant, since we are after all in a state of war. Everybody knows that the suicidal maniacs are trying, and some have been apprehended trying to enact out their savage schemes.

So in short, I'm going to have to disagree with you in your assesment that no attacks after 2001 "means squat", as you so eloquently put it. Could it have something to do with the fact that people are rounding up those al qaeda idiots left and right across the globe ?

[Troll]

EGG
----
FACE

A lot of people in this thread will have some explaining to do now!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3796185.stm

Is this Administration a joke or what? They keep claiming not be liars but just making honest mistakes. So many mistakes one wonders whether they aren't completely incompetent! If you can't get this sort of basic information right, how the hell can you expect to have accurate enough information to invade countries, ferret people away to legal blackholes etc.

Global terror attacks are on the rise, says the US State Department, admitting an earlier report - which had claimed attacks were tailing off - was wrong. The State Department reported in April that there were fewer terror attacks in 2003 than in any year since 1969.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said data in that report was misleading - but said this was an "honest" error.

Bush administration officials had cited the April report as proof that the US was winning its "war on terror".

...

"Based on our review subsequently to all this coming to light," said State Department spokesman, Richard Boucher, "we determined that the data in the report are incomplete and in some cases incorrect."

...

This was echoed by Mr Powell, who admitted, "Errors crept in and frankly, we did not catch them."

...

Mr Boucher said ... a revised report was being prepared and it would show a steep rise in the number of attacks compared to the original analysis."

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by AKcrab:
5 U.S. attacks since 1920. The fact that there hasn't been one since 2001 means squat.

source

Yea... but when you skew the numbers like the Bush Admin. does... they look good .

BUt yes... the US historically has been pretty much immune to attacks. So no attacks since 2001 is pretty worthless.

If you look at civilian deaths under each administration in American history... Bush comes out as the @$$ of the whitehouse. At least that's a bit more accurate and covers all of history.

When comparing apple's to oranges, oranges will always taste more like oranges.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Pardon my ignorance, but why are you linking to something that has little to do with the current war or situation that we are in ? Who cares about what some anarchists/bolsheviks/whatever did in 1920, and what do Puerto Ricans have to do with anything ? What does the Oklahoma bombing have to do with our current war ? I thought we caught those guys, am I mistaken ?

The fact that there has been no major terror attack on our soil since 2001 is pretty damn significant, since we are after all in a state of war. Everybody knows that the suicidal maniacs are trying, and some have been apprehended trying to enact out their savage schemes.

So in short, I'm going to have to disagree with you in your assesment that no attacks after 2001 "means squat", as you so eloquently put it. Could it have something to do with the fact that people are rounding up those al qaeda idiots left and right across the globe ?

Hello?

That's some pretty spectacular reasoning there.

The fact that there has been no major terror attack on your soil since 2001 means diddly-squat in terms of how effective your "war" on terror is, since statistically, the next major terror attack should hit your soil in, oh, about 2015 or so.

Using YOUR soil as a measure of effectiveness is, unfortunately, a bad joke.

And could the rise in global terrorism have something to do with the fact that you are CREATING more of those al qaeda idiots left and right across the globe every time you shoot somebody?

-s*

[eklipse]

Global terror attacks are on the rise, says the US State Department

Heh.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
not in the USA.

The only countries showing a rise in terror attacks are Iraq and countries that opposed the liberation of Iraq.

I Thought the USA (Bush and his band of wackos} was trying to save the world and lo and behold it LIES, LIES, LIES about terrorism going dramatically up since it's start on liberating the world. Then when the Bush babies get caught LYING they meekly say it was an error.

LIES, LIES, LLLLLLLIES!

One thing you have to admire about Reagan, when he was wrong he admitted it. The people liked him for that. Too bad Bush and his band of LIARS can't stop trying to cover their fusk ups with LIES. They aren't very good at it, the LIES that is, they keep getting caught.

[Spliffdaddy]

Dubya has a long way to go before he can top the lies Clinton told.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Dubya has a long way to go before he can top the lies Clinton told.

WMD

How many soldiers have no died as a result of his lies before congress and the nation?

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by Troll:
EGG
----
FACE

A lot of people in this thread will have some explaining to do now!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3796185.stm

Some more quotes from a related article:

Ken Mehlman, the president's campaign manager, said in April, ``Ultimately the most important thing that people want to see on the war on terror is, what is your vision for dealing with it and what is your record.''

Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage said at the time, ``Indeed, you will find in these pages clear evidence that we are prevailing in the fight.''

Clearly. Now that the numbers have been exposed as bogus do you think they'll admit that there's 'clear evidence that we are NOT prevailing in the fight.'?

Probably not.

[DBursey]

Slightly off topic:

... one key thing about islam is that it teaches utmost respect of women and they have equal rights to men.

LOL!!

Mohammed's wonderous treatment of women

Mohammed's high regard for women

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by DBursey:
Slightly off topic:



LOL!!

Mohammed's wonderous treatment of women

Mohammed's high regard for women

Do we even need to show biblical beliefs towards women? Remember it starts with women being made of 1 of Adam's ribs.

It only goes downhill from there.

Mary was the exception.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Global terror attacks are on the rise, says the US State Department

Heh.

That's too bad. Maybe if a few other nations grew some balls, global terrorism would be on the decline. This is what happens when you choose to appease 'skewed' muslims. You lib goofs can't see past your nose. You can only think about today while those you want to appease are planning for tomorrow.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by dcolton:
That's too bad. Maybe if a few other nations grew some balls, global terrorism would be on the decline. This is what happens when you choose to appease 'skewed' muslims. You lib goofs can't see past your nose. You can only think about today while those you want to appease are planning for tomorrow.

Can you expand on your ideas please?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Dubya has a long way to go before he can top the lies Clinton told.

Once again:

When the right finds that thir chosen administration is completely indefensible, they invariably fall back on the argument, "At least it's better than...", with the usual form involving a reference to Clinton's sex life.

Thanks for proving me right, Spliffy.

So you agree that this is rather devastating for your administration, seeing as you cannot defend them?

-s*

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by DBursey:
Slightly off topic:



LOL!!

Mohammed's wonderous treatment of women

Mohammed's high regard for women

LOL, macvillage-net,

you don't have to fall for the links this ignorant soul has provided. I have read that site, and it is an Islam-hating Hindu-site, go figure!

I have never laughed as much about the sheer tries to interpret every verse about women in the most evil sense possible, while only quoting small parts of the verses, so small so that it backs their own evil interpretation, while ignoring parts of the same sentence, that goes against their interpretation. That site surely was the most out-of-context-quoter that I have ever seen, one could think of it as satire, but that Hindu-site means business.

And what made me laugh even more was their bend-over portraying of Muhammed, the prophet, as a sex-hungry egomaniac, while it's obvious that they were only projecting their own sexual thoughts and desires into Muhammed's life!

For example they cited the fact that Muhammed had eleven wifes as a proof that he not only regarded women to be inferior but also as a proof for Muhammed's over-the-top sexual hunger, LOL.

What they forget to mention or rather to interpret is that he was married to a single woman when he was 25 years old until his single wife died when he was 49 years old. 24 years he was married to the same woman, so much for his over-the-top sexual hunger and his view of women to be inferior..

He indeed married again after his first wife died, and over the years until he died with 63 years he got eleven wifes, but he didn't marry them for sexual reasons or something like that, he did it for political reasons, in order to bind different tribes together to form an islamic nation. The different families often asked Muhammed to marry a daughter of them so that the families get a political connection with the prophet.

What people don't understand is that Muhammed sometimes married a woman/girl from a family that wanted that Muhammed choosed one of its daughters for a political connection, just for its beauty without having sexual desires..

Up until today I wasn't aware that there were some Hindus that hate Islam so much that they set up an Islam-hate-page that is so full of evil interpretations that it is again funny and could be assumed to be meant satirical...

Taliesin

[itai195]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Clearly. Now that the numbers have been exposed as bogus do you think they'll admit that there's 'clear evidence that we are NOT prevailing in the fight.'?

Probably not.

[dubya]I'm unaware of any such report. Some State Department leaders stopped by my office a couple times, but I never had any extensive conversations with them. I don't remember anybody walking into my office saying, 'State says this is the way it's going in the War on Terror.'[/dubya]

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by itai195:
[dubya]I'm unaware of any such report. Some State Department leaders stopped by my office a couple times, but I never had any extensive conversations with them. I don't remember anybody walking into my office saying, 'State says this is the way it's going in the War on Terror.'[/dubya]

More than likely to happen.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by dcolton:
That's too bad. Maybe if a few other nations grew some balls, global terrorism would be on the decline. This is what happens when you choose to appease 'skewed' muslims. You lib goofs can't see past your nose. You can only think about today while those you want to appease are planning for tomorrow.

Perhaps it's time for the US to grow some balls and realize there's a problem.

The US is still of the belief that it doesn't need to be part of the international community. Until it changes that belief, this is our unfortunate future.

I'd personally rather the US be part of the civilized world.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
Perhaps it's time for the US to grow some balls and realize there's a problem.

The US is still of the belief that it doesn't need to be part of the international community. Until it changes that belief, this is our unfortunate future.

I'd personally rather the US be part of the civilized world.

How are we not part of the international community. We given billions in aid, we protect scores of nations, and we are a leader in international trade.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by dcolton:
How are we not part of the international community. We given billions in aid, we protect scores of nations, and we are a leader in international trade.

There is more than money and making Coca-Cola available in Tibet...

[dcolton]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
There is more than money and making Coca-Cola available in Tibet...

I guess you want the US to buy some KY Jelly from Canada so we can bend over and be part of the 'international' community

[Spheric Harlot]

Wow.

dcolton got real intellectual there...

"K-Y jelly"?

That's some real heavyweight convincing arguing right there...

-s*

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Wow.

dcolton got real intellectual there...

"K-Y jelly"?

That's some real heavyweight convincing arguing right there...

-s*

Maybe if she/ he/ it answered the question, I would be able to respond.

[Spheric Harlot]

Question?

What question?

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Question?

What question?

How are we not part of the international community. We given billions in aid, we protect scores of nations, and we are a leader in international trade.

[Mithras]

Originally posted by dcolton:
I guess you want the US to buy some KY Jelly from Canada so we can bend over and be part of the 'international' community

Ah, fear of homosexual rape, the favored metaphorical card to play when the more irresponsible type of social conservative is, ahem, backed into a corner.

[PacHead]

Were definitely part of the international community, and anybody asserting otherwise is clearly delusional. As a matter of fact, people are probably jealous that we have too much influence in international matters, so people need to get their story straight, and stick with one lie.

Some people are just angry that we dont bend over backwards for the French and other terror appeasing Europeans. Oh, also, we dont listen to what Osama has to say, and lefties seem to have a huge problem with that, since theyre constantly trying to legitimize the cave dwelling fool. If these people could sell their own grandmothers inorder to appease the muslim terrorists, Im sure a few of them would.

You know, there were a bunch of misguided fools also against WWII even after 12-7-41, and apparently their whining got them nowehere. Weak minded people have always existed, nature made them that way, and theres little one can do except ignore them, step up to the plate and do what needs to be done.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by dcolton:
How are we not part of the international community. We given billions in aid, we protect scores of nations, and we are a leader in international trade.

Ah - sorry.

Most people tend to mark their "questions" with a little squiggle at the end.

Replies are not as clearly marked, so I'm not surprised that you missed angaqok's answer, just as I missed your question:

Originally posted by angaqok:
There is more than money and making Coca-Cola available in Tibet...

That's a pretty clear answer.

Now, about your homophobia...

-s*

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by dcolton:
I guess you want the US to buy some KY Jelly from Canada so we can bend over and be part of the 'international' community

I do not know about the U.S. if you like it...

I mean you brought the idea...

But seriously, your hatred is now in the way. I think you should take care of some of your issues then see clearly (hopefully) what is happening around you.