[rag on a muffin]

Originally posted by bradoesch:
Now, about those hinges. Didn't Apple do away with hinges a few years ago?

didnt they do away with latches too?

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
No, posting FUD is saying that a 1.6GHz Pentium-M with a Radeon 9600 'runs circles' around a 1.25GHz+ G4 with the same video.

Erm, it does. A 1.6Ghz Pentium M even runs circles around a 2.6Ghz Pentium IV. Intel just dropped the Pentium IV's successor this week to concentrate on bringing Pentium-M to the desktop in dual core hyperthreading format by next year...for laptops too. Mhz per Mhz it's the most efficient and powerful chip there is and in dual core low power format it's going to be amazing. We're talking this chip coming to laptops next year!

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Erm, it does. A 1.6Ghz Pentium M even runs circles around a 2.6Ghz Pentium IV. Intel just dropped the Pentium IV's successor this week to concentrate on bringing Pentium-M to the desktop in dual core hyperthreading format by next year...for laptops too. Mhz per Mhz it's the most efficient and powerful chip there is and in dual core low power format it's going to be amazing. We're talking this chip coming to laptops next year!

Negative.

A 1.6GHz Pentium-M is about on par with a 2.2-2.4GHz Pentium 4 for most functions. Meaning, it is about on par with an Athlon XP of the same speed. That is far from being the most efficient chip out there.

And FYI, the Pentium-M is basically the Pentium III-B. We've been here before.

And as a matter of fact, the G4 was faster than the Pentium III at the same speed, and it is faster than the Pentium-M at the same speed.

[klinux]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
No, posting FUD is saying that a 1.6GHz Pentium-M with a Radeon 9600 'runs circles' around a 1.25GHz+ G4 with the same video.

There's only two ways to slice that: Either you're full of ****, or your PowerBook is screwed up in some way.

PowerMacMan: Stop using words you do not know. FUD = fear, uncertainty, and doubt. None of which is applicable is this case.

Since you say a 1.25 Ghz G4 (a notroiously bad processor, in my opinion) is so superior, why don't you back that up then instead of keeping on saying "No, it is not true because I say so?"

Here, for example, is one benchmark shownig Pentium-M beating G4s. http://www.barefeats.com/al15b.html

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
And FYI, the Pentium-M is basically the Pentium III-B. We've been here before

Yeah, that is like saying G5 is bascically like a G4. Real intelligent argument.

Pentium-M does share some characteristics with P3 but it is significantly different from P3 or P4. Anand has a good 15 page article on Pentium-M published a year ago. Maybe you should give it a read. http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.html?i=1800&p=3

[EdipisReks]

the Pentium-M is an absolutely incredible chip. i wish i had one in my PowerBook.

[striker100]

Whar's the model #?

[TheGameguru]

Look its one thing to love Mac's but lets not get carried away...

I agree on the original post..that Sony laptop is butt ugly.. and ever Vaio I've owned (2) has been crap..

But lets not get carried away...until Apple creates a G5 Powerbook theres no way they're going to come close to speed to the 1.6 and 1.7ghz P:M's.

And it will only get worse as Intel is much closer to the 2ghz P:M's than Apple is to releasing a G5 powerbook.

That being said..I use my Powerbook 15.2" 75% more than my Compaq NC6000's but thats for other reasons besides raw speed/gaming.

Looking forward to my new 15.2" Radeon 9700 128mb Powerbook which should be here soon.

[bluejam]

Originally posted by TheGameguru:


I just got a Compaq NC6000 which is a 14.1" 4.5lbs notebook with a Pentium M 1.6ghz, 1gb of Ram, 60gb 5400rpm Harddrive, Radeon 9600 64mb of Ram, SXGA+ 14.1 screen (1450X1050), DVD/RW Burner, 802.11a/b/g, Bluetooth, 8cell LION Battery, Advanced Port Replicator for $2500

Pretty much run circles around my 15.2" G4 Radeon 9600 64mb G4 powerbook.

There's one thing to love Mac's (which I do) theres another thing to post FUD and be delusional.

How does it run circles around your G4? Both machines seem the same. In fact, I think the latest 15" G4 Powerbooks would be less than $2500.
Are the games cleaner? Does it render video much quicker? What do you think is the difference btween the two that makes the Compaq faster? The processor? The 1gb of ram?
I'm not trying to slam you. I'm just curious.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Negative.

And as a matter of fact, the G4 was faster than the Pentium III at the same speed, and it is faster than the Pentium-M at the same speed.

Bullcrap. Show some benchmarks for a G4 1.5Ghz against a P-M of the same speed.

[RooneyX]

That should count as rape:




The scorescould even kill G5s running at the same speed. Imagine the new dual core P-Ms with hyperthreading. Makes me shudder.

[Simon]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Imagine the new dual core P-Ms with hyperthreading. Makes me shudder.

Imagine, they will never run OS X. Makes me shudder. Make a choice and get over it.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by Simon:
Imagine, they will never run OS X. Makes me shudder. Make a choice and get over it.

The only problem. But yet again, we're talking about hardware and then someone comes along and says.......'it doesn't run OSX!'

But they do run Office, Lightwave, Photoshop, Half Life 2....

[Simon]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
But yet again, we're talking about hardware and then someone comes along and says.......'it doesn't run OSX!'

It's a fact. Even if you don't like it.

The fastest Intel chip in the world will do you no good if you want to run the best OS on it.

It's either the software or the P M. There's no in between. And when I look at this Sony I'm really glad about that.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by Simon:
It's a fact. Even if you don't like it.

The fastest Intel chip in the world will do you no good if you want to run the best OS on it.

It's either the software or the P M. There's no in between. And when I look at this Sony I'm really glad about that.

If you're one of those people who spend more time working within applications and less time clicking on the desktop or changing your wallpaper or devouriing double cheeseburgers then all that matters is a stable OS. The only problem with Windows in this regard is viruses...not that I ever had one when I was a Windows user.

[sniffer]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
If you're one of those people who spend more time working within applications and less time clicking on the desktop or changing your wallpaper or devouriing double cheeseburgers then all that matters is a stable OS. The only problem with Windows in this regard is viruses...not that I ever had one when I was a Windows user.

If you are happy with XP than good for you. For me every time I install or do anything off track, I hold my breath for not ****ing up. Other than that my XP installations works fine, I know what I am doing, and I get my work done. But for me it's trash compared with OS X in regards to friendliness and happy computer experience. The risk of getting infected viruses is just a part of the picture.

In my subjective opinion of course.

[rag on a muffin]

maybe get rid of osx's gui. open up activity monitor, turn on magnification of dock, and run your mouse back and fourth across your dock. on my powerbook 12" this takes up like 60-80% of my cpu

[heresiarh]

Macs are generally friendlier computers.

[Commodus]

The G4 isn't as fast as a Pentium M, we have to accept that. The basic design is almost 5 years old, for goodness' sake! Anyone who gets a PowerBook G4 should know by now that you're buying one for the feature set, not performance.

And that's perfectly alright: in fact, I think too many laptop manufacturers these days are focusing on creating desktop replacements that they know full well will never move much further than from the study to a LAN party, and even then get some elements wrong.

There are very few laptops that have 6-pin Firewire connectors on them, let alone Firewire 800. Mac laptops are they only kind that can sleep or wake instantly just by closing or opening the lid. Bluetooth operates best on the Mac. And a very important point is that the video outputs on most x86 laptops are VGA, not DVI. Those laptops have to take an image quality hit and run through an analog LCD (or else use a CRT) if they want to extend their screen space.

That said, the PowerBook G5 can't come soon enough. For gaming alone it'll be much more feasible, and it should also make general use just that much more responsive and pleasant.

[iomatic]

These are the most salient, relevant points about hardware vs. hardware. The whole system (including OS) has to be accounted for. That's the point, I believe, others were attempting to make � that it's the full package that counts, not the speed of the CPU scored on in an obscure benchmark. The CPU is only one (albeit very important) component of a computer.

Originally posted by Commodus:


...

There are very few laptops that have 6-pin Firewire connectors on them, let alone Firewire 800. Mac laptops are they only kind that can sleep or wake instantly just by closing or opening the lid. Bluetooth operates best on the Mac. And a very important point is that the video outputs on most x86 laptops are VGA, not DVI. Those laptops have to take an image quality hit and run through an analog LCD (or else use a CRT) if they want to extend their screen space.

...

[hldan]

I have just one question for anyone who qualifies in regards to this thread.
It was suppose to start out as a thread about the 17" Sony Vaio but as usual it ends up as Mac vs. PC so my question is does anyone here own both machines with the same software?

Example:

Powerbook 15.2" Alubook w/ 1.33-1.5Ghz, 1GB ram

Sony Vaio Z1 14" 1.6-1.7Ghz 1GB ram

Both models running the same task at the same time such as rendering the same Photoshop task from start to finish.
Installing a very large piece of software such as UT2003 on CD seeing which one installs the software the fastest especially since UT2003 takes quite a while to install.
Importing CD's.

The Bearfeats numbers are irrelevant if you really haven't tried a real life comparison.
PC companies spend too much time pushing speed because that's all they can fight with. They are still stuck with Microsoft Windows. It is a challenging OS for most users but it's the people's choice however. What good is lightening fast Pentium M or P4 if you can't get a new scanner to work with the OS or you have to spend time rebooting and tweeking and dealing with problems removing unwanted software and dll issues and getting the wireless to work.
Fast speed doesn't cover up the headaches.

[RooneyX]

The Bearfeats numbers are irrelevant if you really haven't tried a real life comparison.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Many of us have had PCs and Macs and know the real world performance.

Example, my first desktop Mac was a Dual G4-450. I believed all the hype about how fast the G4 was, etc and laid down the money. I also had a home built PIII-800 at the time.

When I took the G4 home and made app by app comparisons with the PIII I was disappointed to see it lose in every test by about 10%. Yes, both machines had no problems. All plugins were installed, all latest updates to take full advantage of both. But Lightwave was faster on the PIII as was every Photoshop filter. I never believed the hype again.

Since then I've only used Macs for the user friendliness and not performance. But then I haven't used high end apps for two years now. When Macs catch up, if they can, and I use video and 3D apps again maybe I'll get a top end Power Mac.

And I don't know where this idea of scanners etc not working with Windows. Download the fricking driver. The last scanner I had didn't have OSX drivers and wouldnt work unless I paid for Vuescan. Windows works with far more peripherals than Macs do. There's no sense in making the comparison based on a few of the latest scanners and printers that Apple has included the drivers for. Try EVERY peripheral on the market.

[StiZeven]

While it's not styled as nicely as the 17" PowerBook, nor is it as svelte, I certainly wouldn't call the 17" Sony 'ugly'. IMHO, it's downright gorgeous compared to some other 17" PC offerings out there. Also, certainly even the biggest Mac die-hards are aware of the some awful Mac and tacky designs of the past (Tangerine iBook comes to mind). I think the curves that Sony used on this model are subtle and not forced just to make it look 'cool'. The design is clean and sharp looking. However, at the end of the day it *is* all very subjective.

Now please, spare us all the ever so predictable 'it doesn't run OS X' line. I personally use both platforms (willingly) and there are millions of people who are aware of OS X and still voluntarily use XP alone or in addition to. They are two different beasts and should be treated as such. If you don't like PCs or ever want to use XP, then your opinion is irrelevant amongst those comparing hardware or who like and enjoy both platforms.

I also wouldn't laugh at the specs of this Sony:

1.8GHz *Dothan* Pentium M
(...with a whopping *2MB* Level 2 Cache! - Not level 3, and a 533MHz bus)
1GB DDR 333MHz RAM
80GB 5400rpm HD
128MB ATI 9700 Radeon GPU
DVD-RW SuperDrive
Gorgeous 17" Xbrite Glossy LCD with up to 1900 x 1200 UXGA

I use both Pentium M and G4s - and I can tell you that they are NOT the same speed. The Pentium M has a speed advantage over the G4 at the SAME clock speed. So, a 1.5GHz G4 would almost be as fast as a 1.5GHz Pentium M (but the G4 will kill your battery in 2 hours where the Pentium M will last for about 4 - both with real world usage). A 1.7GHz Pentium M will blow any current PowerBook away (unless you can find me a 1.7GHz G4 with a 1MB level 2 cache). Again, the Pentium M will last hours longer on a single charge without hampering speed. Apple seriously needs to make an efficient mobile G5 that throttles on the fly without any noticeable speed increases.

Now with the release of 'Dothan' which has the faster system bus, has a larger level 2 cache (2MB) and is even more efficient than the Banias generation, there is simply no comparison in terms of speed and battery life with actual real world usage.

[RooneyX]

I also wouldn't laugh at the specs of this Sony:

1.8GHz *Dothan* Pentium M
(...with a whopping *2MB* Level 2 Cache! - Not level 3, and a 533MHz bus)
1GB DDR 333MHz RAM
80GB 5400rpm HD
128MB ATI 9700 Radeon GPU
DVD-RW SuperDrive
Gorgeous 17" Xbrite Glossy LCD with up to 1900 x 1200 UXGA
[/B][/QUOTE]

Where can I read about this model? I cant find it on Sony's website yet. I'm seriously considering a new PC laptop for a portable gaming machine - I havent had a PC for over a year and sorely miss playing the latest games. And Half Life 2 is causing me pain.

[RooneyX]

Found it! Gorgeous! With up to 2Ghz Dothan and has a DVI output on the port replicator!

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.aspx?newsID=1854

[StiZeven]

Here is a link to it - though not in English!

http://www.sundigi.com/article/news/...asp?ga_id=2473

Rumor has it that Sony is making announcements this week about new VAIO products, so I hope the US sees this one soon.

[StiZeven]

Well, there you go - just missed you by a second!

[RooneyX]

Really nice but Sony charges a premium because of the XBrite screen and doubt they will offer upgradable GPUs. I'll see what other companies come up with.

The fastest Dothan is 2.1Ghz so somebody will probably offer that soon. It'll kick a 3.4Ghz PIV and have loads of battery life.

[sniffer]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
I also wouldn't laugh at the specs of this Sony:

1.8GHz *Dothan* Pentium M
(...with a whopping *2MB* Level 2 Cache! - Not level 3, and a 533MHz bus)
1GB DDR 333MHz RAM
80GB 5400rpm HD
128MB ATI 9700 Radeon GPU
DVD-RW SuperDrive
Gorgeous 17" Xbrite Glossy LCD with up to 1900 x 1200 UXGA

Interesting. About the same, or close specs as the computer a friend of mine is going for. In terms of gaming performance I know his rig will eat every game out there on high settings.
I certainly understand it's tempting in terms of hardware, especially now that I am also in the marked for a new portable. Glad I am just a casual gamer. Makes the choice so much easier.

[teknopimp]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RooneyX:
[B]Found it! Gorgeous! With up to 2Ghz Dothan and has a DVI output on the port replicator!

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.aspx?newsID=1854

nice link. hideous machine. the dock looks huge, probably takes up as much space as a wide-format printer. looks heavy too.

[RooneyX]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by teknopimp:
[B]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Found it! Gorgeous! With up to 2Ghz Dothan and has a DVI output on the port replicator!

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.aspx?newsID=1854

nice link. hideous machine. the dock looks huge, probably takes up as much space as a wide-format printer. looks heavy too.

Doh you're not supposed to carry a dock around

[iomatic]

I have used both; the problems I see with Macs are often turned around very quickly; I've seen every other brand of PC notebook eat it -- HP, Toshiba, Compaq, Dell, IBM. Always problems at my agency, always a virus, a hardware issue -- if we had given the ever-insistent account team Macs, we wouldn't be spending thousand of dollars a month on support costs, instead of a few hundred every few months on Mac support (like there's no Excel on Mac OS.)

There's the issue: the whole system, which should include support/downtime. I mean, look, almost all PC laptops have a Wi-Fi switch--just how user-friendly and clunky is that? We spent hours on my father-in-law's notebook trying to figure out how to connect to his basestation (and of course it still didn't work); and as well, all the other subtle issues (Photoshop resizing windows, lack of Finder elegance, etc.) that you don't get on a Mac. This is all anecdotal, admittedly, but the little things do add up.

Of course this is going to digress into a Mac vs. PC debate, because, based on specs alone, the PC would win. But then, you'd have to use Windows for "productivity."

US$.02


...

Originally posted by hldan:
I have just one question for anyone who qualifies in regards to this thread.
It was suppose to start out as a thread about the 17" Sony Vaio but as usual it ends up as Mac vs. PC so my question is does anyone here own both machines with the same software?
...

The Bearfeats numbers are irrelevant if you really haven't tried a real life comparison.
...

[Michel_80]

Speed speed speed. Don't think that is as important as people make it out to be.
This Sony looses to PB's in almost every respect except that it wins in a very big category: screen. Those screens are simply amazing, very much like the desktop ones and even better. We need those on the Powerbooks please!

[Justin216]

The notebook is probably rather nice, but from those images, it just doesn't wow me like Apple's PB line has

[sniffer]

Originally posted by Michel_80:
Speed speed speed. Don't think that is as important as people make it out to be.

In terms of hardware sales, you're wrong indeed.
However, productivity weights a lot also, but you don't sell much hardware on software alone unfortunately. At least Apple is doing it right in the design department.

[hldan]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
[/B]

and wouldnt work unless I paid for Vuescan. Windows works with far more peripherals than Macs do. There's no sense in making the comparison based on a few of the latest scanners and printers that Apple has included the drivers for. Try EVERY peripheral on the market. [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm sure that Sony is a nice machine as far as looks and specs but Windows works with far more peripherals than Macs do???
Which planet R U from?
Unless you are talking about parallel printers and that's so long gone.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by Michel_80:
Ugly as hell

i hate it when people say it is "ugly as hell"

looks about the same BULLSH*T computer design all computer makers use (thanks to tibook in 2001)

[heresiarh]

I like the new HP 17 inchers.

[RooneyX]

Intel is scrapping the PIV and Xeon in favor of the Pentium-M family which will soon have dual cores and hyperthreading. In a year or so the mobile Pentium-Ms will also be dual core:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05...l_kills_tejas/

'Intel has now confirmed earlier reports that predicted the next-gen Pentium 4 "Tejas" and the next-gen Xeon "Jayhawk" would be axed. Both processors were once slated to arrive in the second quarter of next year and be built on a 90nm manufacturing process.

What's the problem with the product? Intel said it's simply ready to move away from single core chips in favor of chips with two processor cores per die. "We are accelerating our dual-core schedule for 2005," an Intel spokesman, told El Reg. Intel will now have dual-core desktop chips in 2005 and dual-core chips for laptops shortly thereafter.

....There is speculation that Intel will be using the Pentium-M chips extensively across its desktop and server line. '

So imagine the embarrasment we Powerbook users will face when choosing between a 2Ghz G5 Powerbook or a dualcore 3Ghz Pentium-M laptop.

[Simon]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
So imagine the embarrasment we Powerbook users will face

Embarrassment? You still haven't understood! A majority of the PowerBook buyers aren't embarrassed because there is a PC notebook out there with a faster chip. People chose the PowerBook for may other reasons (features, weight, OS!, etc.) and certainly aren't embarrassed. Why should they be? They had a free choice to buy what they wanted. And they did. That makes them happy (well at least in the eyes of those who believe in free market enterprise). The issue here is that you believe the only benchmark to buy a notebook is its CPU and if somebody buys a notebook with a CPU that turns out to be less powerful than some other model you believe this buyer must feel like an idiot. What other criteria could there possibly be than the CPU...?

So imagine the embarrasment we Powerbook users will facewhen choosing between a 2Ghz G5 Powerbook or a dualcore 3Ghz Pentium-M laptop.

I call FUD on this one.

Here's the real deal:

There is a 2GHz 90nm G5 today. It actually exists. Apple's not using it in notebooks, but it exists.

The dual-core P-M at 3GHz does NOT exist. And it may or may not become a desktop chip. It could just as well be vaporware. Who says Intel will succeed? SOI? Copper? Yeah, right. So, as of today, you are comparing apples to oranges.

But, apart from this rather major deficit, all this hallelujah baloney about Intel dual-core is ridiculous. Where did Intel get that from? Its own smart and up-to-date engineers? Unfortunately not. The IBM Power4 (from which the 970 and 970fx are derived) has been making use of this "new idea" for quite some time already. The coming Power5 will make further use of the concept.

So, where are we today. The P-M is a 32bit chip based on a previous single-core design. The future P-M may be dual-core. It may run at 3GHz and it may materialize.

The 970 and 970fx exist today, are derived form a dual-core 64bit implementation that already has a successor being tested right now.

So basically, it's Intel who is actually playing catch-up here. They may have higher MHz numbers and certainly have more impressive press releases, but when we compare what has actually materialized, we see a 32bit P-M running at 1.7GHz and a 64bit 970fx starting at 2GHz. When we look at this summer we see a G5 (970fx?, 980?) promised at 3GHz and a P-M at maybe 2GHz.

Nobody here will honestly believe a low-power 2GHz P-M will have the slightest chance against a 3GHz G5. Of course you're going to jump all over me and tell us that the P-M is a notebook chip available today and the G5 is a desktop chip with no notebook version available yet. Right. So, let me just remind you of the fact that you chose to argue the P-M's incredibly ingeniousness by claiming Intel could even make a desktop chip out of it. See here:

....There is speculation that Intel will be using the Pentium-M chips extensively across its desktop and server line. '

Which would bring us back to the desktop. At some point you have to decide if you're arguing Apple vs Dell (1.5GHz G4 vs. 1.7GHz P-M) or Intel vs. IBM (2.0GHz 970fx vs. 3.2Ghz P4). or today vs. the alleged future (3GHz P-M vs. 3GHz 970fx/980) It's either one or the other. Not both.

In the end it all boils down to the fact that if you want OS X you're going to take a PowerPC. If you need speed then take the fastest model available. If you really need an Intel chip then you're not going to get OS X. But, it's your own free decision for christ sake, this is not communism, you get to chose here. Asking for a P-M PowerBook is not wrong but it makes about as much sense as asking for dry rain. Now, how much sense do you see in this discussion?

[sniffer]

What Simon said!

Not that the speed on the current x86s offers doesn't matter, but this discussion have certainly gone out of proportions a couple of times now. Stick with whatever fits your needs, that's what I say. We've had discussions like this before, and they are rarely constructive, if ever.

[Deal]

I mean really! This could very likely be the #1 transport for a virus into your firewall

Buy 'em up for your non-power-user employees and let them take them home and plug them into their completely open to the world cable modems. Then when they come in early on Monday morning and release the zoo inside your walls, you can have loads of fun spending all your IT money.

Personally, I'll try to keep as many people using Macs as possible. Less head ache for me.

I still wonder what this thing is going to cost too. If Sony's high end 10" costs $3000....

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by sniffer:
What Simon said!
.

Perhaps....but watch how he excretes those double cheeseburgers with bacon in a years time

[Simon]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Perhaps....but watch how he excretes those double cheeseburgers with bacon in a years time

In a half a year's time I'll be putting a couple of patties on the grill to celebrate the dual 3GHz PowerMacs completely blowing away anything Intel/AMD have to offer.

In a year I'll be toasting to the G5 PowerBook. The fastest notebook money can buy.

But that's just optimistic me.

[heresiarh]

AMD Dual Opeteron systems are extremely dangerous machines, I just built one myself and did some gaming on it at absolutely high resolution, at first i was scared by the sheer power of the machine! i sat back and said damn..... I love my macs for all the design work that i do, otherwise for gaming, i prefer a PC.

[fhammond]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
No, posting FUD is saying that a 1.6GHz Pentium-M with a Radeon 9600 'runs circles' around a 1.25GHz+ G4 with the same video.

There's only two ways to slice that: Either you're full of ****, or your PowerBook is screwed up in some way.

And you'd know that how exactly?

I have a similar setup: a 1.7 GHz ThinkPad T41p and PowerBook 15" AU 1.33 GHz. There's no application I regularly use that isn't noticably faster on the ThinkPad (except for Final Cut Pro..ha!). Even ignoring the white spot problems, which I got fixed, the ThinkPad feels better made. Of course, a T41p is several revisions into the T-series while I bought my PB 15" on the day they were released, so I'd expect the ThinkPad to be more refined. The ThinkPad also has much better battery life (last week, I worked and listened to iTunes for an entire six hour plane flight on a single battery) and I prefer it's 1400 x 1050 resolution screen.

Of course, the ThinkPad doesn't have FireWire or a DVD burner (though the models announced yesterday do have DVD+RW). Overall, I wish I could run OS X on a ThinkPad but I can't so that's why I buy PowerBooks.

fh

[Michel_80]

Offcourse the Thinkpad is better made. It's built by IBM and not Compal. Having said that Apple is still better quality than the 95% of Wintel laptops. And the right OS is more important than speed (IMHO). So I prefer the Powerbook

[Talk2Angus]

Originally posted by Link:
Looks nice to me. But I bet it has a desktop P4 which makes it a piece of crap

It might be a desktop P4 But it Runs at 3.6 Ghz!!!!!!!

[Talk2Angus]

Originally posted by Michel_80:
Really? Those curves look bad, plus I doubt it's even close to 1 inch thickness (anybody knows the specs?).

The VAIO X505 notebook, weighs less than 2 pounds,Vaio R series desktop that embeds a 3.6GHz Pentium 4 processor

[klinux]

Originally posted by Commodus:
There are very few laptops that have 6-pin Firewire connectors on them, let alone Firewire 800. Mac laptops are they only kind that can sleep or wake instantly just by closing or opening the lid. Bluetooth operates best on the Mac. And a very important point is that the video outputs on most x86 laptops are VGA, not DVI. Those laptops have to take an image quality hit and run through an analog LCD (or else use a CRT) if they want to extend their screen space.

All true. PB have all that and a bag of chips and Apple charges a premium for it. Many PB owners laugh at the desktop replacements x86 laptops with desktop CPUs and <2 hour of battery time and call them fugly. They may well be correct as well.

However, the desktop replacement subcategory of laptops is the best selling subcategory because they are what the consumers want! Most people are not away from the power outlet for >2 hours. Most people do not need or use FW800. Most people use the native LCD on their laptop and not an external. (In addition, the difference b/w analog and DVI is small at resolutions <1600x1200.) The instant-on ability is the one feature that I absolutely miss on my work Dell laptop.

So, for the average consumer, the feature-lite 10lb thick laptop is the best compromise between a fast performing tower system with the benefit of a portable system. Does PB do that and more? Of course. But to dismiss the needs of the average consumer is like driving a BMW and mocking people for buying the boring but practical Camry or a minivan because it fits their needs.

[rag on a muffin]

screw winblows, even if they beat us performance wise, macs still win on the productivity level. if i wanted to play solitaire, or use word, or some useless crap i would use a windows machine. what is a PC user gunna use a fast computer anyways? type 1000 words a minute without filling up the key-cache