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badidea · 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Some people will believe anything as long as it fits their narrow view of things.

That's how it all started!

theolein · May 8, 2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by ebuddy:
I think all events like these need perspective.

As far as I know (without jumping to conclusions or reaching for conspiracy) Just as there are those evil enough to commit what I believe are acts caught in reality on photograph, there are those within the same organization that will blow the whistle and effect change. Justice will eventually be served within (while very flawed) the most fair, complex, advanced, and successful system in the World. IMHO. This is the difference. Our differences. Most importantly; our ability to represent, discuss, and vote in accordance with those differences. Our ability to differ without fear of death. We have been placed on a pedestal. A pedestal created not by us here, but those abroad. We put into practice a sweet simplicity we call freedom based on an ingrained desire to eventually endow all with equal pursuit of happiness.

The International Community was opposed to our actions in Iraq in the early 90's, then critiqued our having pulled out "pre-maturely". Those that hate us will simply continue to hate us or hate us more. There is nothing we can do to change those fringes. We are making difficult choices. Agree or disagree, we are indeed making difficult choices. Ladies and Gentlemen, the World as we know it, is no longer and it wasn't 9/11.

9/11 unfortunately, will always eventually occur and will occur again. Our reactions were supported by the masses because of emotion and no administration would've acted better or worse or even differently. I think to be clear, our actions in Iraq are not to be confused with retaliation of any sort for the terrorist attacks on 9/11. 9/11 became an opportunity for the US to position itself strategically on the Globe. Not planned mind you. Let's face it folks, at some point whether you like it or not there will be a developing ideal as we move toward a socially globalized earth. What do you want the predominant ideal to look like? I don't really want to know. Just know that eventually, some ideal will dominate. We cannot grow or spread if there is a nurtured and educated hatred for our kind in certain regions and under certain administrations. Iraq is right smack-dab in the middle of where we need to win hearts and minds. Not oil people. The long-term political implications behind planting an "American-friendly" government in Iraq are far more valuable than oil. Inaction did nothing. We have many broken agreements and resolutions to prove that. At some point, because of our human limitations, we will eventually come to a head. America does not teach hate formally. It is not sanctioned and funded by the government. The education we receive here embraces cultural diversity. It's required to by law and even the schools use "magnet" programs and require alternate and augmented bus routes to encourage school attendance outside the child's "comfort" zone. We are the most blessed country in the world. We are the most charitible country in the World. I believe in the ideals of democracy, including capitalism, and rugged individualism. I "buy-in" on the ideal that I will get out of this country exactly what I put in. Which do you believe is the more successful system or ideal in the world, because again; it will come down to two at some point.

I don't like to hear comments on; "well, Iraqis have been committing atrocities for centuries, where's the outrage?" Well, first of all it seems to me that most of Saddam's regime understands our rage. So does OBL btw. The crimes we committed in the prisons there were disgusting, dispicable, below us, and not indicative of our collective ideal here. I think most people understand that. For those that don't, watch these perps get their just deserts. Learn.

Excellent post! I don't agree that America is the most blessed country on earth (I think Australia is the most blessed country on earth), but let's not split hairs.

thesearcher · May 8, 2004, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
The photos HAVE to be fake. It is totally uncharacteristic for the US to do anything like that, it could never happen.

Canadian soldiers wouldn't do that either, eh.

angaq0k · May 8, 2004, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by thesearcher:
Canadian soldiers wouldn't do that either, eh.

Actually some did, and they were tried for that.

Hawkeye_a · May 9, 2004, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
The crap part is... some of the photos out there are real.

Most people want to believe that the US is evil.

Lol..... so the fact that the U.S. bombs any nation it wants and invades any country it wants has absolutely nothing to do with it ? We/They needed photos of priosner torture to convnce em eh ? ...lol

hyteckit · May 9, 2004, 08:23 AM

Conclusion:

Pictures of American soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners are real!

Rumsfield admits it, the Pentagon admits it, and even the lady in the photo admitted to it.

voyageur · May 9, 2004, 08:27 AM

Not sure what to think about this editorial illustration from the Frankfurter Allgemein, but I don't think Apple will like it:

voodoo · May 9, 2004, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Some people will believe anything as long as it fits their narrow view of things.

Look in the mirror and say it.

hyteckit · May 9, 2004, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by voyageur:
Not sure what to think about this editorial illustration from the Frankfurter Allgemein, but I don't think Apple will like it:

Haha... Get your iPod mini. Sorry, but that's awful.

Krusty · May 9, 2004, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by voyageur:
Not sure what to think about this editorial illustration from the Frankfurter Allgemein, but I don't think Apple will like it:

NOW RUNS ON AFGHANIS AND IRAQIS !!

BTW, Happy Mother's Day Voyageur

Developer · May 9, 2004, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by hagheid:
http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle5365.htm

That was awesome! A good feeling.

hyteckit · May 9, 2004, 08:53 AM

Wow, something like this sends ripples all the way up to the president. Very bad news for Pres. Bush.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=544&ncid=716

voyageur · May 9, 2004, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Krusty:
BTW, Happy Mother's Day Voyageur

Thanks Krusty, you're a sweetheart!

theolein · May 9, 2004, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by voyageur:
Not sure what to think about this editorial illustration from the Frankfurter Allgemein, but I don't think Apple will like it:

Ouch! Steve will be pissed, I'm sure.

theolein · May 9, 2004, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
That was awesome! A good feeling.

I hate to say this, and videos like that will be used as examples of bloodthirstiness by the Arab media, but that is war, and generally what happens in war. People get shot, and shooting at the wounded is part and parcel of the whole thing, sick as it is.

ambush · May 9, 2004, 10:03 PM

New ones.

In God We Trust�

heresiarh · May 10, 2004, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
Look in the mirror and say it.

Haha, good one.

heresiarh · May 10, 2004, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by heresiarh:
Haha, good one.

Side Note: Some columnits write that US Gov should not apologize for the mistreatment of prisoners and write that Saddam was never opposed by the Arabs for his terrible tortures. The difference is that Saddam Hussein was a tyrant and the American Gov is not. If some soldiers performed such acts, they should punish them and set an example.

BigMeatyChunks · May 10, 2004, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by ambush:

New ones.

In God We Trust�

The horror. That prisoner is obviously being dipped in a big vat of hot oil

theolein · May 10, 2004, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
The horror. That prisoner is obviously being dipped in a big vat of hot oil

Do you think your opinion will make any difference in the way that the Arab world sees this?

BigMeatyChunks · May 10, 2004, 04:48 PM

The photo could show a bunch of prisoners sitting around playing bridge or pinochle and still the Arabs would find something wrong with it.

theolein · May 10, 2004, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
The photo could show a bunch of prisoners sitting around playing bridge or pinochle and still the Arabs would find something wrong with it.

And you would still claim that photographic evidence of Nazi like abuse is only normal. the ironic thing, and it is a bitter irony, is that all those SS veterans of WWII must be laughing. After 60 years of being accused of being the butchers of the century, they must feel vindicated right now.

BigMeatyChunks · May 10, 2004, 04:56 PM

Talk to me when we start firing up the ovens or making lampshades, shoes, and purses out of Iraqis.

hagheid · May 10, 2004, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by theolein:
And you would still claim that photographic evidence of Nazi like abuse is only normal. the ironic thing, and it is a bitter irony, is that all those SS veterans of WWII must be laughing. After 60 years of being accused of being the butchers of the century, they must feel vindicated right now.

This is the most ridiculous statement yet! Are you on medication?

Developer · May 10, 2004, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
The photo could show a bunch of prisoners sitting around playing bridge or pinochle and still the Arabs would find something wrong with it.

Do you find something wrong with it?

theolein · May 10, 2004, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by hagheid:
This is the most ridiculous statement yet! Are you on medication?

Only Cocaine.

BigMeatyChunks · May 10, 2004, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
Do you find something wrong with it?

No, it could be worse.

Developer · May 10, 2004, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
No, it could be worse.

One thing we should Al Qaida be grateful for is that they made the Americans reveal their true, ugly face. I didn't know that America's moral measuring rod was Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein.

BigMeatyChunks · May 10, 2004, 05:56 PM

You guys are ones to talk.

itai195 · May 10, 2004, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
One thing we should Al Qaida be grateful for is that they made the Americans reveal their true, ugly face. I didn't know that America's moral measuring rod was Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein.

Again, if you want to know why Americans are often suspicious of European posters' motives, look no further than comments like this one.

christ · May 10, 2004, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
Talk to me when we start firing up the ovens or making lampshades, shoes, and purses out of Iraqis.

Because anything less than that is 'hazing'?

hyteckit · May 10, 2004, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by BigMeatyChunks:
The horror. That prisoner is obviously being dipped in a big vat of hot oil

Nope, except the prisoner died from the dogs attacking him. I guess it just part of the "hazing".

theolein · May 10, 2004, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
Again, if you want to know why Americans are often suspicious of European posters' motives, look no further than comments like this one.

Come on! This guy has been posting some very borderline statements over the last few pages, basically claiming that there is nothing wrong with this abuse and that prisoners have no rights, should be treated inhumanely etc, and this is the best you can come up with?

itai195 · May 10, 2004, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by theolein:
Come on! This guy has been posting some very borderline statements over the last few pages, basically claiming that there is nothing wrong with this abuse and that prisoners have no rights, should be treated inhumanely etc, and this is the best you can come up with?

It didn't take me this long to realize that netgear/snickerdoodle/vanillacoke/bigmeatychunks/whatever his next username will be isn't generally worth arguing with. He's hardly representative of what most Americans think, and either way, it's not fair to generalize based on his ramblings.