[thunderous_funker]

IMO, its not a matter of being "good" at it or even "bad" at it. Its a matter of compatibility. A great many relationships whither because people learn too late that they are fundamentally incompatible with it comes to intimacy and sex. That is something I would definitely want to feel very confident and comfortable about before making a relationship legally binding.

YMMV

[Kevin]

thunderous that is why one should take time to learn to be. It can be done. But it takes the willingness.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by Kevin

thunderous that is why one should take time to learn to be. It can be done. But it takes the willingness.

There is always some learning, but there are also very real divides that no amount "learning" are going to bridge.

I realize that many ideologies (not just religious ones, sometimes cultural) might not accept the notion that intimacy can have so many varied expressions that 2 people simply won't be emotionally or psychologically equiped to meet each other's needs and desires, but reality demonstates this fact emphatically.

Sadly, "counseling" that effectively dictates a single sexual prescription for a couple or demands that one partner submit to the other's wishes or declares one partner's wishes invalid leads to deep unhappiness that manifests itself in lots of ways.

We all know that lots of people marry without giving it full thought or consideration. But that doesn't account for the staggering divorce rate (nor the enormous numbers of people who remain married but are deeply unhappy in their relationships). Sometimes people just are not compatible. Obviously not all incompatibility is sexual, but that is one of the major categories.

Talk to any marriage counselor if you have doubts as to how many married couples who seek counseling spend a LOT of time talking about being unfulfilled sexually.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker

Talk to any marriage counselor if you have doubts as to how many married couples who seek counseling spend a LOT of time talking about being unfulfilled sexually.

I am betting this has lots to do with one or more sides not willing to LEARN to fulfill their partner sexually. Either because of ego reasons, (Would have to admit they weren't a stud in bed) or because they don't care as long as they get off.

When two people work at such a thing, and are BOTH willing, things will click.

It also takes communications.

The POSSIBILITY is there. It just takes WILLINGNESS to learn.

[thunderous_funker]

Its got nothing to do with "studliness". Thinking that there is a "right way" and "wrong way" to sex is part of the problem. There is no quick simple fix for when what makes one person happy in bed makes another person unhappy (or revolted).

And it doesn't have to be kinky or deviant. Hell, the #1 sexual complaint for couples is they both have a different notion of how often is enough. And one partner simply acquiescing is hardly a solution to THAT problem. Nothing kills good sex like the feeling your partner is merely going along out of a sense of obligation.

Yes, some compatibility problems can be worked out, but not all. Not nearly all of them. AFter you're already hitched is a pretty bad time to suddenly discover a major problem.

If you're lucky, that doesn't happen. But not everyone is lucky.

[Kevin]

This is also why you don't base your relationship around sex.

Too many people believe their significant other is "their sex partner" and that's it.

[tthmaz]

Like Nike says: JUST DO IT!

But, know the consequences. In the end, it all comes down to what values u hold on to. It's just a matter of choice. yes or no. period.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by Kevin

This is also why you don't base your relationship around sex.

Too many people believe their significant other is "their sex partner" and that's it.

So if you're sexually unhappy at home, just lump it?

I'm not saying its the only thing. Its not. Its not even the most important thing (at least not to most people) but it isn't unimportant. Its really really important.

A couple that isn't happy in bed will be unhappy out of bed in pretty short order.

But then again, statistics show that most people aren't happily married. Happy couples are pretty rare. I don't think that pre-marital sex will magically fix that (hardly) but it allows a couple to begin working on at least one fundamental aspect of their mutual happiness while they learn and work on the rest. Waiting to develoep that portion of the relationship until you're already legally bound is not a great idea, IMO.

That doesn't mean it won't work, but its hardly a fix-all. Then again, neither is not waiting.

I just think love takes a lot of work and sex is an integral part of love. No sense procrastinating.

[Kevin]

No, again, I still believe help is possible IF WILLING.

Not being willing isn't really a sex problem, but an attitude problem.


Saying two people aren't sexually compatible is basically saying one or more aren't willing to change, or learn.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, again, I still believe help is possible IF WILLING.

Not being willing isn't really a sex problem, but an attitude problem.


Saying two people aren't sexually compatible is basically saying one or more aren't willing to change, or learn.

Fine.

Wouldn't you like to know if your partner is "willing to learn" or not BEFORE he/she is your legal spouse?

Edited to add:

This isn't agreement with your definition of incompatible. I'm just putting aside the point to demonstrate mine. Even if the problem was a simplistic as "unwilling to learn", wouldn't it be better to know that about your partner BEFORE you're married?

And how exactly does one "learn" to be in the mood more than once a month? Or "learn" to enjoy oral sex? Or "learn" to not get incredibly turned on by something your partner thinks is gross? Or how does your partner "learn" to not consider it gross?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker

Wouldn't you like to know if your partner is "willing to learn" or not BEFORE he/she is your legal spouse?

You mean would I like to know if my partner was selfish and self centered before I married them? Yes. You can do that without having sex.

[thunderous_funker]

You conveniently ignore when someone has already made that point, don't you?

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker

So if you're sexually unhappy at home, just lump it?

I'm not saying its the only thing. Its not. Its not even the most important thing (at least not to most people) but it isn't unimportant. Its really really important.

A couple that isn't happy in bed will be unhappy out of bed in pretty short order.

But then again, statistics show that most people aren't happily married. Happy couples are pretty rare. I don't think that pre-marital sex will magically fix that (hardly) but it allows a couple to begin working on at least one fundamental aspect of their mutual happiness while they learn and work on the rest. Waiting to develoep that portion of the relationship until you're already legally bound is not a great idea, IMO.

That doesn't mean it won't work, but its hardly a fix-all. Then again, neither is not waiting.

I just think love takes a lot of work and sex is an integral part of love. No sense procrastinating.

Having sex before marriage (or not having it) is hardly a fix-all for maritial bliss.

However, not waiting till marriage to have sex does allow a couple to begin working on at least ONE fundamental aspect of the relationship before making any drastic decisions affecting the rest of their lives.

I've never said that saving yourself for marriage is garunteed to lead to unhappiness. Not once. But I don't think its a great idea for the many reasons I've stated. Not the least of which is learning something fundamentally important about your partner that you'll never found out any other way. And no, talking about sex beforehand (while usefull and good) isn't quite the same as doing the necessary (and very enjoyable) work.

[Kevin]

No, not ignoring anything. We will just have to agree to disagree.

There is always an option to better. It's up to us to make that choice.

[wolfen]

People rate sexual compatibility too highly. I think it's a smokescreen for gettin' some nookie, frankly. My wife and I didn't know barely a thing about our sexual compatibility. You know what? We were HIGHLY incompatible sexually. I mean, off the charts incompatible.

BUT -- we love each other. We were committed from day one to deal with every challenge of life and never give up. Period. So we have hammered out a very fulfilling sex life. And it's been a lot of fun along with the work. A union between 2 people is hard work. But if you vow never to break up, and to fight hard to make things mutually fulfilling, it brings forth an incredible process that cannot be underestimated.

In short: People are amazing. Love conquers all. Committment has no substitute. We now live in an age where people want ease and comfort. They are willing to dispose of potentially mind-blowing relationships for something easier and more convenient. We call this "compatibility." Please chime in, but I feel it is really just shorthand for "I don't want to have to work too hard at this" and "gimme some free sex and if it's good enough I'll let myself fall in love with you." Premarital sex is a hedge against fear and doubt.

The point is: if you love them before you ever have sex, the sexual situation doesn't change that. If you don't, the sex just reveals what was already between you. You don't need premarital sex to figure it out either way. It's just a way to get some nookie along the way, and give you another out if it doesn't feel right.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by wolfen

The point is: if you love them before you ever have sex, the sexual situation doesn't change that. If you don't, the sex just reveals what was already between you. You don't need premarital sex to figure it out either way. It's just a way to get some nookie along the way, and give you another out if it doesn't feel right.

BING! Give that man a cigar.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by hart

nice image

....could you explain exactly what "new car smell" refers to in a living, breathing human being?

The key word here is "prefer". if all things being equal...the color of the car, the year, the model, the make the price...if presented with the opportunity to buy a brand new one or one that has been around the block a few times. I'd PREFER to buy the new car.

How does the analogy apply ? if I (this is my preference, not anyone elses) meet two women att he same time....i enjoy their company equally, find them both equally attractive, etc.... if i were to find out that one was a virgin and the other wasnt, id pick the virgin to explore a relationship with.

Having said that, i must point out that if presented with the situation where i meet two women....one a former eastern european prostitute turning tricks to feed her family, and another a regular woman who sleeps around with guys who are football players/rock stars/ just cause theyre cute.....i'd pick the prior. but once again thats just me.

Judging from what the married men&women on these boards say.....about if given the opportunity to do it all again, they'd wait for marriage, knowing their experience with this aspect of life, i'd trust their judgement over a juvenile who's sole purpose is to "get laid".

Cheers

[d4nth3m4n]

A++ experience, will bang again.

[hart]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

The key word here is "prefer". if all things being equal...the color of the car, the year, the model, the make the price...if presented with the opportunity to buy a brand new one or one that has been around the block a few times. I'd PREFER to buy the new car.

How does the analogy apply ? if I (this is my preference, not anyone elses) meet two women att he same time....i enjoy their company equally, find them both equally attractive, etc.... if i were to find out that one was a virgin and the other wasnt, id pick the virgin to explore a relationship with.

......

Judging from what the married men&women on these boards say.....about if given the opportunity to do it all again, they'd wait for marriage, knowing their experience with this aspect of life, i'd trust their judgement over a juvenile who's sole purpose is to "get laid".

Cheers

That's not really being specific. Why exactly is a virgin partner a more attractive option for you? At this point you're saying you like a virgin because it's better, but that's not an answer. And....without tracking back through all this to find out it seems relevant to ask are YOU a virgin?

I've been married for 15 years, same partner for 20 years and I have no regrets about sex before marriage. It's not even an issue. If I'm ever out on the market again I'll certainly be having sex with any future partner/s long before I ever get married again.

[Chuckit]

I think he's just saying it's a personal preference. Much like I don't like sausage on a pizza. What's wrong with sausage? I couldn't tell you. I just don't like it on pizza.

[hart]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I think he's just saying it's a personal preference. Much like I don't like sausage on a pizza. What's wrong with sausage? I couldn't tell you. I just don't like it on pizza.

nope, don't buy it. This is such an old sexist value, that a woman is somehow spoiled by having been "used" by someone else. Previously, possession of a woman ensured that the progeny of your union was genuinely a continuation of your own genetic material and not some interloper's and that you didn't spend your survival resources on raising some other guy's child. This is a very pre-civilization kind of value, like the male lions who kill all the previous male's cubs when they take over a pride.

But what now? I want to know really what characteristic makes a virgin woman more appealling than one who has had sex before?

[JoshuaZ]

Then again, if we really cared about our ladies being virgins when we got married, there would be a lot of women with very off white wedding dresses.

Hart, I have to say, kudos on your last post. I completely agree. The double standard for men and women when it comes to sex. Kind of like the old saying that is something like `Every man wants to date a wild woman, but wants to marry a virgin.` Yeah, annoying.

Its a bit interesting living ina culture that doesn`t have culturally dictated religous views on sex. The Japanese take a much more care free attitude about it. Its a part of life, and you should enjoy it the same way you enjoy a nice glass of wine or a night of karaoke.

[Jawbone54]

Abstinence all the way.

Two people who are honestly able to tell each other on their wedding night, "You're the only person I've ever been with," and honestly mean it...what can top it? I'm getting married on April 7, by the way! My wife and I will be able to say this, and I can honestly say I'm incredibly thankful that I somehow managed to abstain throughout those tumultuous teenage years.

[wdlove]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Abstinence all the way.

Two people who are honestly able to tell each other on their wedding night, "You're the only person I've ever been with," and honestly mean it...what can top it? I'm getting married on April 7, by the way! My wife and I will be able to say this, and I can honestly say I'm incredibly thankful that I somehow managed to abstain throughout those tumultuous teenage years.

Congratulations Jawbone54, I'm sure that you must both be very proud. With two loving people the experience will be awesome and well worth the wait. Do you happen to be Christians also?

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Abstinence all the way.

Two people who are honestly able to tell each other on their wedding night, "You're the only person I've ever been with," and honestly mean it...what can top it? I'm getting married on April 7, by the way! My wife and I will be able to say this, and I can honestly say I'm incredibly thankful that I somehow managed to abstain throughout those tumultuous teenage years.

Let just hope you don`t end up like the over 50% of marriages in the US that end in divorce.

No really. Best of luck.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Abstinence all the way.

Two people who are honestly able to tell each other on their wedding night, "You're the only person I've ever been with," and honestly mean it...what can top it?

Good chocolate cake. Lots of things. I can think of few things that can't top, "I'm choosing you based on a total lack of information."

Still, congratulations on getting married, however unnaturally high your horse may be.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Good chocolate cake. Lots of things. I can think of few things that can't top, "I'm choosing you based on a total lack of information."

Total? Total? As in "There's nothing else to know about you that matters?" What?

Are you so sexually obsessed? Do you even care about the hunk of meat your screwing before you find out if it's worth getting to know?


Jeeeez.

[xenu]

You people are over analysing this way too much.
Marriage is a made up institution.
Sex is natural.

Do it, or don't. But don't pretend you are special because you "saved yourself".

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by wolfen

Total? Total? As in "There's nothing else to know about you that matters?" What?

Are you so sexually obsessed? Do you even care about the hunk of meat your screwing before you find out if it's worth getting to know?


Jeeeez.

Actually, that was half the point I was making. If you haven't screwed someone, you've never been with them? The abstinence route seems even more sexually obsessed than I am. Somehow the sex makes the relationship special rather than vice-versa.

[Kevin]

Actually sex doesn't make a relationship special. Ask anyone that payed for a quicky in the back lot. Loving someone and caring for them make sex special.

I think there is a few too many people in here putting sex above everything else.

What is going to happen when you and your mate is too old for sex? Divorce? Might as well, there is no other reason to stay together right?

You aren't sexually compatible anymore.

Originally Posted by xenu

Do it, or don't. But don't pretend you are special because you "saved yourself".

Um if someone saved themselves, by definition they ARE special.

Esp when the common happening are the opposite.

So there is no pretending.

spe·cial P Pronunciation Key (spshl)
adj.
Surpassing what is common or usual

[Hawkeye_a]

If sex before marriage isnt such a big deal. why is it such a big deal after marriage if your partner wants to have sex with other people ?

I personally ( as a person...it doesnt have anything to do with religion, etc), find myself unable to convince myself that something is right/wrong at one point in my life then the opposite later on. I might be making it out to be a black and white issue, cause right/wrong usually is from a personal perspective. if it's "wrong" to kill someone after youre turned 18, how can it be right (or "less" wrong) before ur 18 ? (18 is an arbitary number).

Similarily...if your ok with your partner having multiple sexual partners before he/she meet you, why is it all of a sudden uncomprehendable that they could have more partners apart from you after you "tie the knot" ? why should they(or you) have to change their sexual lifestyle , just cause love is added to the mix ? surely you can love each other and have multiple partners, right ?

To answer the previous post posed to me.... well...i also like redheads, you might like blonds. how can, or why should i, try to explain that to anyone ? i agree it makes no sence to PREFER one color hair to another, but i just do. nothing wrong with that, is there ? you like girls who sleep around, i dont. it's a preference, and everyone's different. if you can live with your soulmate having intercourse with other people...good for you. i cant.

Cheers

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

If sex before marriage isnt such a big deal. why is it such a big deal after marriage if your partner wants to have sex with other people ?

Because then you have a commitment. It would also be a big deal if you went around making out with other people, or did any number of other things that indicate a relationship — because you're agreed to have an exclusive relationship with your spouse — but most abstinence folks don't draw the line there.

[Monique]

The important thing really is that you are the only person I want to have sex with, right now and no one else is in my mind or in my heart.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

If sex before marriage isnt such a big deal. why is it such a big deal after marriage if your partner wants to have sex with other people ?

You're comparing apples with oranges. As long as you haven't made a commitment to any single person to be faithful to them (as we normally do in our society) you can have as much sex with as many people as you like as far as I am concerned.
Once you've made a commitment of faithfulness to a person the expectation, albeit not the reality, is that we stick to that promise.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

If sex before marriage isnt such a big deal. why is it such a big deal after marriage if your partner wants to have sex with other people ?

You're comparing apples with oranges. As long as you haven't made a commitment to any single person to be faithful to them (as we normally do in our society) you can have as much sex with as many people as you like as far as I am concerned.
Once you've made a commitment of faithfulness to a person the expectation, albeit not the reality, is that we stick to that promise.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Abstinence all the way.

Two people who are honestly able to tell each other on their wedding night, "You're the only person I've ever been with," and honestly mean it...what can top it? I'm getting married on April 7, by the way! My wife and I will be able to say this, and I can honestly say I'm incredibly thankful that I somehow managed to abstain throughout those tumultuous teenage years.

Congratulation.

I honestly hope that you'll find that you and your wife will be sexually compatible, that you'll be open enough to talk about your likes, dislikes and desires. You're both novices, so have fun exploring together. A good sex life is maybe 5% off a marriage, but it is the first 5%.

Whist I certainly respect your personal decision not to have sex before you got married I am finding it incredibly difficult to allocate any moral superiority to that decision.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Monique

The important thing really is that you are the only person I want to have sex with, right now and no one else is in my mind or in my heart.

Were you talkin' to me?

[Monique]

Why bluesky would you feel that I am specifically talking to you??

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Monique

Why bluesky would you feel that I am specifically talking to you??

My sense of humor?

[xenu]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Um if someone saved themselves, by definition they ARE special.

Esp when the common happening are the opposite.

So there is no pretending.

spe·cial P Pronunciation Key (spshl)
adj.
Surpassing what is common or usual

Only in the sense of doing something un-natural.
Hardly special.

But if that's your choice, go for it (non-sexually).

[wolfen]

I guess part of me doesn't understand why a couple can't talk all about this before engaging in it. I mean, any counselor will tell you that's a good idea, anyway.

Cowgirl? Missionary only? Oral sex (giving and taking)? Spanking, being tied up, fetishes, standing up, on the table, eyes open or fantasizing of something else, chocolate syrup, school girl outfit, cbt, long and slow or quick and be done with it, in a public place, the use of porn *(and what types?), Dom/Sub, sweet and tender, candlelight and flowers only or does she want it rough sometimes, etc.......all this can be discussed beforehand. I encourage Jawbone to go down this list and every other thing he can think of and ask his wife how she honestly feels about it. Don't be afraid of the answers. Honesty is the best policy.

I agree that it's best to reduce the amount of surprise related to the act. If you don't talk about it you're asking for trouble. Seriously. If you can't talk about it, you shouldn't be getting married.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by xenu

Only in the sense of doing something un-natural.
Hardly special.

No, it special because they are surpassing what is common happenstance. That makes it special. They have more self control if you will.

Who is doing anything un-nartural? I hope you aren't saying waiting till you are married is unnatural. That's absurd.

But if that's your choice, go for it (non-sexually).

It's well too late for me. I wish I could go back.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by wolfen

I guess part of me doesn't understand why a couple can't talk all about this before engaging in it. I mean, any counselor will tell you that's a good idea, anyway.

Cowgirl? Missionary only? Oral sex (giving and taking)? Spanking, being tied up, fetishes, standing up, on the table, eyes open or fantasizing of something else, chocolate syrup, school girl outfit, cbt, long and slow or quick and be done with it, in a public place, the use of porn *(and what types?), Dom/Sub, sweet and tender, candlelight and flowers only or does she want it rough sometimes, etc.......all this can be discussed beforehand. I encourage Jawbone to go down this list and every other thing he can think of and ask his wife how she honestly feels about it. Don't be afraid of the answers. Honesty is the best policy.

I agree that it's best to reduce the amount of surprise related to the act. If you don't talk about it you're asking for trouble. Seriously. If you can't talk about it, you shouldn't be getting married.

But it's all heresay. How can you honestly know what you will/won't like if you've never tried ANY of it?

[dav]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, it special because they are surpassing what is common happenstance. That makes it special. They have more self control if you will.

i think special can imply "better than" instead of just "uncommon". i agree it is an uncommon choice, but not that it makes a person better than someone else. i don't think it's about self-control either, it's about beliefs, and no one's belief being better than another. strong self-control can be exhibited in other factors where one holds a belief.

think of it this way:
"athiests are special because they are surpassing what is common happenstance. that makes them special. they have more self control if you will."

i see it as a different set of beliefs, not one being better than another. make your choices based on your experience and what you've learned. no need for value comparison.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by dav

i think special can imply "better than" instead of just "uncommon". i agree it is an uncommon choice, but not that it makes a person better than someone else.

Special? Yes. Better than? No, we are all in the same boat. I would say however, they would be better OFF than most of us that did not wait. But that is ust MHO.

i don't think it's about self-control either, it's about beliefs, and no one's belief being better than another. strong self-control can be exhibited in other factors where one holds a belief.

Oh it's EVERYTHING about self control. It takes more than just belief. and "No ones belief being better than another" Highly subjective. I don't buy into this "feel good I am ok you are ok" no matter what you do thought process. I believe there is a right and wrong.

think of it this way:
"athiests are special because they are surpassing what is common happenstance. that makes them special. they have more self control if you will."

Being an atheist requires no self control. So that would negate any such ideal. Being an atheist just requires you to be.

i see it as a different set of beliefs, not one being better than another. make your choices based on your experience and what you've learned. no need for value comparison.

Again, subjective.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dakar

But it's all heresay. How can you honestly know what you will/won't like if you've never tried ANY of it?

Common sense dictates these things. I've never bashed myself in the head with a hammer, but common sense tells me I wont like it.

I know the recent trend is to ignore your common sense and "Just do it" but that gets ourselves into problems we probably wouldn't want. Had we known, we probably wouldn't have "Just done it"

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by Dakar

But it's all heresay. How can you honestly know what you will/won't like if you've never tried ANY of it?

That's a little disingenuous. You're either open to trying, or you're not. That's half the battle, isn't it? Yes, you'll both find out what you like during the process -- and that may not shake out the same way for both of you -- but seriously, if your future wife is in for a little over-the-knee spanking now and then, you've got more than just conversation material.

I venture to guess most guys have fantasized about many of the things they'd like to do, regardless of their actual DOING of them previously. At that point it's the same struggle it'd be with ANY chick -- what are you willing to entertain, honey. And really, I highly doubt all successful relationshps are marked by the woman's willingness to do everything the guy ever wanted. It's highly unlikely. So it isn't a gamebreaker except for people with misplaced priorities.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Common sense dictates these things. I've never bashed myself in the head with a hammer, but common sense tells me I wont like it."

Ah, but we're dealing with things the majority of people find pleasurable, unlike bashing your head with a hammer.

You've felt how hard a hammer is, you've probably even felt it hit some other part of your body -- in short, you know much more about what a hammer will feel like than a virgin knows about sex.

And what is the 'common sense' that s being ignored about sex?

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by wolfen

I venture to guess most guys have fantasized about many of the things they'd like to do, regardless of their actual DOING of them previously. At that point it's the same struggle it'd be with ANY chick -- what are you willing to entertain, honey. And really, I highly doubt all successful relationshps are marked by the woman's willingness to do everything the guy ever wanted. It's highly unlikely.

That's only one side of the coin -- she might be dissatisfied by your performance or adventurousness as well.

So it isn't a gamebreaker except for people with misplaced priorities.

Hehehehe.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

I would say no if it somehow didn't leave you out of "touch with reality" and somehow socially retarded. Why does this mattter? Does it jack up your credit rating or something? Nothing gets you less respect as a male who's still a virgin.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

I would say no if it somehow didn't leave you out of "touch with reality" and somehow socially retarded. Why does this mattter? Does it jack up your credit rating or something? Nothing gets you less respect as a male who's still a virgin.

That's not entirely true. I'm sure it garners respect within the religious community, at least with the relatively devout.