[Chooglin']

:-)

[PB2K]

close this thread please.

[besson3c]

If you want you can just pretend that the > is a Pacman that is about to eat Windows 7.

I like Pacman.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by arstechnica

So while Windows 7 may not right all of Vista's wrongs, it is absolutely superior to its predecessor. It has three years of improvements, so it can't help but be better. But if you hated Vista's UI, you're going to hate Windows 7's. Worse, in fact, because 7 forces you to use the new Start menu and taskbar, with no possibility of reverting to the old behaviour. If your applications didn't work in Vista, they almost certainly won't work in 7. Sure, 7 has some virtualization tools to help, but this was always possible in Vista too. If you felt Vista was too big and too slow, well, 7 isn't going to provide much joy there, either. Marginal improvements, perhaps, but nothing more. Everything "bad" about Vista—and I use the word in the loosest possible sense, because the things that garnered most complaints have negligible legitimacy—is still "bad" in 7.

Does this make Windows 7 a bad operating system? Not in the least bit. Windows Vista, for all its (alleged) flaws, was the best version of Windows ever shipped. The underlying changes it made were essential to the longevity of the Windows platform, and user features like the searchable Start menu remain an absolute joy that make XP look clunky and ancient in comparison. Windows 7 is even better than Vista, so XP holdouts should upgrade with confidence. Windows 7 is a great OS.

[Cold Warrior]

That title plus a lightweight post isn't a great start, but I've moved it to Alt OS where perhaps those with a full keyboard complement can salvage things.

[besson3c]

I'm still staring at the Pacman waiting for it to gobble up Windows 7.

[Wiskedjak]

I've never really understood the need to pick sides. I can like Ford and GM, Coke and Pepsi. Likewise, I can see the advantages in both Mac and Windows. I don't need to be so devoted to one product that I need to attack it's competition. If it wasn't for competition, neither product would be any good.

[besson3c]

I'm going to get flamed for this, but, oh well, here goes....

I think that people that pick sides and stick to them with such fervor and devotion are by and large newbie computer users and/or people that do stuff with computers on the side.

Every hard core geek I know is mostly jaded about computers and the computer industry. I don't know how one can work in computers for many years and not have a love/hate relationship with the tools they use. It gets old when somebody (like me) expresses their hate relationship with a company like Apple and I get chastised and accused of not being a "true" Mac user, or owning a Mac, or whatever.

Hard core geeks are lazy. We want stuff that works well and creates the least amount of work for us at the most attractive price point, and it doesn't really matter a great deal who makes it. The most concern I have seen is open source vs. proprietary, but this is largely because of the very really and tangible ramifications of both. Sometimes there are other variables/restrictions/limitations with what we choose (e.g. compatibility), but I can say this in complete truth: if Apple or Microsoft (or any of the hardware vendors) can make better server products than what I'm currently using (FreeBSD and CentOS/Redhat) priced attractively, or if somebody other than Apple can build me a better workstation, I'm there. I'd much rather get actual work done in my area of work than fuss around with an operating system, supporting it, etc.

I remember when I first got into computing how Desktop support seemed like something that would be fun. Now, it's the furthest thing from fun imaginable. Maybe I'm a complete misanthrope, but again, I'd rather get actual work done than mess around with my operating system or anybody else's. I'm far more interested in "serving" a much larger population of users, not just Johnny and Sally. I've met many other computer users who have expressed growing out of wanting to do Desktop support too.

The signs of a user who is new to their computer is usually that they go through this little phase of changing their desktop picture, making their icons look nice, coming up with a theme they like, or whatever. I went through that, there is nothing wrong with that, but now that my little computing world includes far more than my personal Desktop, I just don't care about that sort of stuff. That doesn't make me better or worse than anybody else, but I do think that it is not uncommon for people working in IT to care far less about that sort of stuff, and to be far more interested in getting actual work done.

I bring this up because the tweaking your Desktop seems to be what a lot of users do who want to show off their Desktops/computers, and who want to feel a sense of order in the notion of being on some ultra powerful and slick computing platform - i.e. having picked the "right side".

I think this sort of thing is what most people eventually grow out of.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I've never really understood the need to pick sides. I can like Ford and GM, Coke and Pepsi. Likewise, I can see the advantages in both Mac and Windows. I don't need to be so devoted to one product that I need to attack it's competition. If it wasn't for competition, neither product would be any good.

I feel the need to pick sides on Coke vs. Pepsi because Pepsi is a truly disgusting kind of syrup and I never want to be served it again. Coke isn't good, per se, but it's greatly preferable.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I feel the need to pick sides on Coke vs. Pepsi because Pepsi is a truly disgusting kind of syrup and I never want to be served it again. Coke isn't good, per se, but it's greatly preferable.

False. Pepsi is delicious.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I feel the need to pick sides on Coke vs. Pepsi because Pepsi is a truly disgusting kind of syrup and I never want to be served it again. Coke isn't good, per se, but it's greatly preferable.

Except Pepsi has the novelty factor, and it's quite tasty for people who actually *have* taste.

Also, given the choice, it's Afri-Cola every time:

[seanc]

I also believe there is no point in picking sides.
I use what will get my current task done, if one doesn't work, I move onto the next.

Day to day, at work, it's Windows 7.
It runs our company database, Firefox for LogMeIn rescue of which the technician console supports nothing but Windows, Office 2007, the software I use for taking images of drives and loads of other bits and bobs.
If I encounter a failing hard drive that requires data recovery, I flip my KVM over to Ubuntu 8.04 (it works, I haven't bothered to upgrade it) and slave the drive up. Set a copy going in terminal and leave it, because if I tried this on Windows, the entire machine would lock up whenever the disk hit a bad sector or something.

At home it's a Mac or my desktop PCs.
My desktop PC sits with my up to date iTunes library, games and random accumulations of stuff and backs itself up according to a scheduled task. It won't break, I built it from quality parts (including my power supply, which most people overlook), I don't visit sites using Internet Explorer and I keep an eye on the health of my hard drives using Speed Fan.
I have another box running Mythtv, which has degraded into nothing but a shared iTunes server, using Firefly, because Freeview reception in this house is impossible. My main PC syncs my music to this using rsync.

So a bit of an off topic ramble, but the point being, don't get hooked up on X is better than Y, just use what works.
If you're decided on living on one platform, you might find it difficult, but I'm happy with my setups.

P.S. Desktop support is a drag. Especially when you realise that the problem you've been given and battling for an hour, is resolved after a restart.

[ctt1wbw]

I don't really pick sides on either one. I never understood the partisan anger over the Windows vs Mac thing, or the Pre vs the iPhone thing, or the any smartphone vs the iPhone thing... BUT. I do like Coke and Pepsi. As long as there is at least a 75% mix of Jack Daniels with either one.

[ghporter]

I like Sean's take on this. I've generally been stuck with what management provided, so I have a lot of experience with PCs. But I have bought Macs because I like them better for my own purposes. I don't think this is for everyone, but I feel more capable because I can drive a stick as well as an automatic; I don't see this as all that much different.

As to desktop support-it's better when you can walk up to the customer and watch him try to do what he wants to do, especially if you have a rolled up newspaper in your hand. They kind of notice that.

Neither are perfect. I picked the side that sucks less for me - MacOS X.

[wpd7]

SeanC: I hope you mean you run a flavor of Windows server and have W7 as clients for your company DB, otherwise I really worry about the long term viability of your company. =P

As someone that works in IT, I like to say pick the right tool for the job, or at least pick the right tool that works best for you. WHICH IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE. No need to flame other people because of platform preferences, just like a**holes, everyone has one and no two are the same. =)

[seanc]

Yeah, we've got too many servers; Windows and Linux. Where we get rid of a physical one, two virtual ones seem to pop up - don't worry, it's all backed up.

[chabig]

I interpreted the thread title to mean the poster wants help moving from Windows 7 to a Mac.

[wpd7]

Given the forum section its posted on and the smiley face instead of a help plea, I think it was just a troll post.

[cgc]

I have never truly owned a Windows machine...been an Amiga guy who migrated to Mac when Commodore sunk.

I see Windows 7 as an upgrade which isn't necessarily faster than Vista but it has less annoyances that will force you to shake your fist in frustration. BTW, I use Windows 7 in VMWare Fusion.

[Wiskedjak]

With my Windows box having been on Vista for the last 18 months, I think all of the "Vista annoyances" were seriously over hyped.

[ghporter]

But they were annoyances, right? I personally just hated how, even with Ultimate, many settings I am used to configuring were hidden in some odd spot. I spent a lot of lunch times helping classmates un-goober their Vista laptops, and often most of the time was searching for the right configuration option to tweak "pittifully-poor-performance" (or something like that) into "wow, this is really great!" performance.

[Wiskedjak]

Sure, but I have annoyances with OSX as well. I never found Vista to be more annoying to use than OSX. The only thing that really annoyed me when using Vista was how badly iTunes performed in it, and I attribute that annoyance more to Apple than to Microsoft since other, more demanding apps, such as Photoshop, were fine.

[Big Mac]

You don't think the modal, halt everything security dialog boxes in Vista are annoying? I know Windows people have problems dealing with security prompts, but to take it to that extreme is awful - first time I saw it on Windows 7 I was racing to find a way to turn it off.

I have used Windows 7 a bit. Windows 7 is a nice upgrade from Vista, and there are a few things Windows does that Apple could steal. I use XP a lot more on the business side and have only a little exposure to Vista and 7. Windows stopped truly sucking out loud with the advent of 95. Apple had a chance to kill it up until that point, but the history is the way it is. OS X is still superior in many ways and always will be because there are aspects fundamental to Windows that are just purely inferior. And it's no really little surprise that shifui is predominant Windows user who also likes Pepsi. Pepsi is sugar flavored piss water. This thread's title should be changed. It's degrading to have to look at it - this isn't Paul Thurrot's Super Site.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

You don't think the modal, halt everything security dialog boxes in Vista are annoying? I know Windows people have problems dealing with security prompts, but to take it to that extreme is awful - first time I saw it on Windows 7 I was racing to find a way to turn it off.

I have used Windows 7 a bit. Windows 7 is a nice upgrade from Vista, and there are a few things Windows does that Apple could steal. I use XP a lot more on the business side and have only a little exposure to Vista and 7. Windows stopped truly sucking out loud with the advent of 95. Apple had a chance to kill it up until that point, but the history is the way it is. OS X is still superior in many ways and always will be because there are aspects fundamental to Windows that are just purely inferior. And it's no really little surprise that shifui is predominant Windows user who also likes Pepsi. Pepsi is sugar flavored piss water. This thread's title should be changed. It's degrading to have to look at it - this isn't Paul Thurrot's Super Site.

It's astonishing that there are people that really see the world as black and white as you do - both your narrow minded political views as well as, evidently, other preferences in life.

So Shif likes Windows and Pepsi? That does not make her preferences inferior and yours superior, nor does it make it cool to mock her for preferring Windows. Big deal, she prefers Windows, whoop de woo, life goes on. Not everything in life is a matter of choosing the right side or the wrong side, especially not things so mundane as favorite computers and sugary drinks.

Her liking Dreamweaver, on the other hand...

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

You don't think the modal, halt everything security dialog boxes in Vista are annoying?

Absolutely ... for the first five minutes. And then I turned them off.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by seanc 

(including my power supply, which most people overlook)

Ohhhhh yeah.

My mom's machine had a crappy, crappy stock PSU. One of the capacitors in it blew one day, which not only fried the PSU but killed the outputs on her motherboard as well as the keyboard and mouse that were plugged in at the time.

Smokey the Bear wants you to remember, kids, only you can prevent buying crappy, cheap power supplies for your computers, which undoubtedly play some part in causing forest fires.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Her liking Dreamweaver, on the other hand...

ColdFusion tab completion. Worked better than other applications I tried. DreamWeaver is undeniably bloated, but it gets the job done damn well.