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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > New Power Mac coming up!

New Power Mac coming up! (Page 2)
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JB72
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Oct 7, 2005, 11:51 PM
 
If we see dual-dual-core G5s with PCI-Express, creative houses will be snatching these up log after x86 boxes are available. For video, there's no replacement for Altivec in the near future.
     
mduell
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Oct 8, 2005, 01:21 AM
 
SSE may be a fine replacement for Altivec. It has a number of things that Altivec doesn't, like support for 64-bit math, IEEE-754 compliance, double precision arithmetic, and square root/division in hardware, but it does lack a few things Altivec has.
     
OreoCookie
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Oct 8, 2005, 03:12 AM
 
No, it's not. It's cumbersome to program and far less efficient.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
mduell
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Oct 8, 2005, 03:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
No, it's not. It's cumbersome to program and far less efficient.
Apple doesn't think so.
     
sc_markt
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Oct 10, 2005, 10:20 AM
 
If the new powermac has a dual-core G5, will Apple call it a G6? I could see this being a reason for a special event, not to mention a G5 based laptop with a higher res screen.

- Mark
     
tooki
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Oct 10, 2005, 10:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
What does that prove? The document keeps a very neutral stance on architecture. It'd be stupid for Apple to publicly say "SSE is inferior to AltiVec, but it's what you'll get, and you'll like it!"


tooki
     
OreoCookie
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Oct 10, 2005, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
It's marketing, but Altivec is what kept the G4 in the game. OS X layers such as aqua are relying heavily on it, and Windows does not nearly make as much use of SSE. It has a phletora of operations and thus is much harder to use.

Just take a look at vector addition: altivec has one function, vec_add, whereas SSE has 4 equivalent functions and four additional ones (for double precision calculations).

Without Altivec, the switch would have happened earlier, because Apple wouldn't have been able to bridge the time until the G5 (which is/was competitive).
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bentoon
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Oct 10, 2005, 01:55 PM
 
Alright
I am in the market now for a G5
Primarily it will be used for alot of video
and I am looking forward to these updates, but
I probably Cannot justify getting a top top of the line G5 as the machines go Mactel in 06 or 07
i would love to be talked into this, but I would like to start playing aound with some HD and that means that I will probably be spending extra anyway video card plus, plus HDrives plus plus

It seems like a better option all around to get a not so top of the line machine load it with Ram and save maxing everything out until you will have the machine for more than two years (
or can at least selll it later which you will not be able to do with these babies


Feedback Please
J
     
sonicularulus
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Oct 10, 2005, 09:10 PM
 
i would say for you to go with the older 2.0 systems that hold 8 gigs of ram, load it up with ram...maximize its hard drive capacity...get a better video card
if more drives are needed, get a firewire 800 drive...they can go to the 1 tb area...
     
bentoon
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Oct 11, 2005, 10:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by sonicularulus
i would say for you to go with the older 2.0 systems that hold 8 gigs of ram, load it up with ram...maximize its hard drive capacity...get a better video card
if more drives are needed, get a firewire 800 drive...they can go to the 1 tb area...
Thanks Soni
instict says you are right -
If I was a house I could easily justify the upcoming
but as I'm not and because of the timing I assume your advice is the best
thanks
J
     
Todd Madson
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Oct 11, 2005, 10:59 AM
 
Or grab a dual 2.5 or 2.7 machine. Those are solid performers, very fast for most
purposes (the encoding of MPEG material video or audio will blow your mind) and
have cases that are built like tanks.

I think years from now you'll still get people going "remember those G5 duals?".
     
Eriamjh
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Oct 11, 2005, 11:38 AM
 
With about 24hrs to go, now's the time to get in your outrageous, based-on-nothing guesses (or hopes) as to what Apple will debut.

I am hoping for at least one Quad processor PM. A cool product line would be

Good: Dual 2.3GHz, $2000
Better: Dual Core 2.5GHz, $2500
Best: Quad 2.8 GHz (Two Dual Cores!), $3000 (or less)

If Intel PMs are at least a year away, Apple should adopt DDR2 and PCI-Express video now. Let's face it, today's G5s are the same machines that came out in 2003 (24 months ago!) except for a faster CPU. We need new technology! If we don't get it, how about a price cut?

New iPods that don't support video aren't really news (whoop-di-doo: 80GB and 40GB color. I've had a 40GB for 2 years now!).

New PBs with lots of video RAM, high res displays and up to 2GHz processors would be sweet, but unlikely.
( Last edited by Eriamjh; Oct 12, 2005 at 11:06 AM. )

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bentoon
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Oct 11, 2005, 11:40 AM
 
Amen,
Almost makes a case for getting the very very latest but last...
I think the price drop on the 2.5's or 2.7'Solid machines loaded with ram will be nice
Then in 2007 or 8 Ill get a dual Quadcore Macintel
     
k2director
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Oct 11, 2005, 01:30 PM
 
If Apple unveils a dual core, dual cpu PowerMac at 2.5 Ghz tomorrow, I don't think I'll be able to resist.

But before I pull the trigger, I'll want to hear reports about all the possible little gotchas, like loud fans, or chirpiing power supplies, or weird bottlenecks in performance, or whatever else.
     
mduell
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Oct 11, 2005, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eriamjh
With about 24hrs to go, now's the time to get in your outrageous, based-on-nothing guesses (or hopes) as to what Apple will debut.

I am hoping for at least one Quad processor PM. A cool product line would be

Good: Single 2.3GHz, $2000
Better: Dual Core 2.5GHz, $2500
Best: Quad 2.8 GHz (Two Dual Cores!), $3000 (or less)
More likely -
Good: Dual 2.3GHz, $2000
Better: Dual 2.8GHz, $2600
Best: Dual 2.5 GHz dual core $3200
     
brokenjago
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Oct 11, 2005, 01:55 PM
 
I doubt they'll raise the prices, even with this huge of a performace boost.
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Eug Wanker
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Oct 11, 2005, 01:56 PM
 
Nah... Something more like:

Single 2.0 GHz 970MP: $1899
Single 2.2 GHz 970MP: $2299
Single 2.5 GHz 970MP: $2699
Dual 2.5 GHz 970MP: $3299

ie. No more single-core G5s at all in Power Macs.
     
bentoon
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Oct 11, 2005, 02:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
More likely -
Good: Dual 2.3GHz, $2000
Better: Dual 2.8GHz, $2600
Best: Dual 2.5 GHz dual core $3200
I trust mDuel on the Duals
     
brokenjago
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Oct 11, 2005, 02:16 PM
 
I highly, HIGHLY doubt they're going to REDUCE the performance of the PMs by using single Dual core procs. Seriously.
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Eriamjh
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Oct 11, 2005, 02:31 PM
 
Theoretically, a dual core CPU should be cheaper to buy from IBM than two single core CPUs so I concur that the single core CPU could disappear along with its Dual implementation. It all depends on chip availability.

However, I don't think Apple will want to go backwards on the top speed G5 from 2.7GHz. If they can't implement a 2.7GHz quad, they won't drop the single core dual 2.7. They may go back to a time where the top model is slower than the middle model (Remember Quicksilver 733, 867, and Dual 800s in 2001?), but I find that unlikely.

If Apple wants to do anything, it is likely to eliminate the water cooling from the any model G5. That has got to be one expensive system. That's why it is only on the dual 2.7s and they are still $3000.

My dual 800 G4 is 3.5 years old (since I bought it, 4 years since it came out) and I am looking for another machine to upgrade to that would last another 4-5 years through the Intel transition. Quad G5s would be nice.

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brokenjago
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Oct 11, 2005, 02:35 PM
 
There are no longer any Single CPU G5 PowerMacs. The performance increase from single to dual core is about 50-80%, so it's not a replacement for dual Single Core G5's, unless they're Dual Dual Core G5s.
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Eug Wanker
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Oct 11, 2005, 02:57 PM
 
I don't think Apple really cares much if the top two-core machine is 200 MHz slower than the previous top two-core machine, if there a new quad in the mix. The bottom line is the fastest machine will still be much faster, if it's a quad-core machine.

Quad 2.5 GHz cores >> Dual 2.7 GHz cores, in the vast majority of software where speed actually matters.

Furthermore, the new two-core 2.5 GHz will be quite a bit cheaper than the previous dual 2.7.
( Last edited by Eug Wanker; Oct 11, 2005 at 03:38 PM. )
     
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Oct 11, 2005, 03:27 PM
 
Awesome, I can't wait to finally resize my iTunes window with 43% less sluggishness!
     
mduell
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Oct 11, 2005, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
Nah... Something more like:

Single 2.0 GHz 970MP: $1899
Single 2.2 GHz 970MP: $2299
Single 2.5 GHz 970MP: $2699
Dual 2.5 GHz 970MP: $3299

ie. No more single-core G5s at all in Power Macs.
Unlikely.

The dual core AMD64 chips are still more expensive than a pair of single core chips at the same clockrate. Also, since Apple uses the same motherboard in singles and duals, they won't save any money with a cheaper motherboard.

(The dual core P4s are cheaper than a pair of P4s, but the dual core PPC970 design is closer to the dual core AMD64 design than the dual core P4 design.)

Originally Posted by brokenjago
There are no longer any Single CPU G5 PowerMacs. The performance increase from single to dual core is about 50-80%, so it's not a replacement for dual Single Core G5's, unless they're Dual Dual Core G5s.
The performance increase from one to two CPUs is usually only 50-80% (there are near 100% exceptions, just as there are 0% exceptions), so it makes no difference if you're using one dual core or two single core chips.
( Last edited by mduell; Oct 11, 2005 at 09:04 PM. )
     
bentoon
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Oct 11, 2005, 08:54 PM
 
alas,
ThinkSecret is reporting that there is a videoPod But No Mac Updates coming until next week.
we will see
     
snaggs
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Oct 12, 2005, 09:32 AM
 
Its been the 12th for 21.5 hour over here.. when will the announcement happen in the US?

Daniel.
     
havocidal
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Oct 12, 2005, 09:41 AM
 
roughly 3 more hrs frm my post
     
OogaBooga
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Oct 12, 2005, 10:30 AM
 
It usually happens by noon in Pacific Standard time. But the store should have been closed by now.
     
Eriamjh
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Oct 12, 2005, 11:01 AM
 
The announcement starts at 10AM PDT, or 1PM EDT. Soon, my pets....

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MOTHERWELL
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Oct 12, 2005, 03:10 PM
 
Where's The New Powermacs??????
     
k2director
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Oct 12, 2005, 03:14 PM
 
This makes me think that the new PowerMacs--when they do arrive--won't be as exciting as I hoped.

If the Pmacs were really a big leap forward, I think Apple would have introduced them with more than just a press release. This event would have been perfect, but now that it's come and gone, I bet the Pmacs will get a press release like all other refreshes, and that's about it.
     
inkhead
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Oct 12, 2005, 03:18 PM
 
iMac has PCI-Express Video cards! Woohoo, obviously new powermacs will be out this week.
     
sodamnregistered2
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Oct 12, 2005, 04:33 PM
 
Apple is just not a serious computer company anymore.

It's all about the iPods and Job's media mogul dreams.
MacBook Pro C2D 2.16GHz 2GB 120GB OSX 10.4.9, Boot Camp 1.2, Vista Home Premium
mac mini 1.42, 60GB 7200rpm, 1GB (sold), dual 2GHz/G5 (sold), Powerbook 15" 1GHz (sold)
dual G4 800MHz (sold), dual G4 450MHz (sold), G4 450MHz (sold), Powerbook Pismo G3 500MHz (sold)
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Todd Madson
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Oct 12, 2005, 04:42 PM
 
Just wait. It's all being spread out so that the entire fall season is nothing but one product
introduction after another. It's gotta be exhausting for them.
     
ajprice
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Oct 13, 2005, 07:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by inkhead
iMac has PCI-Express Video cards! Woohoo, obviously new powermacs will be out this week.
They also have DDR2 memory in there! . Also comes with a Mighty Mouse and without a 56k modem, which is a USB extra now.

PCIe and DDR2 in the Powermac would be good, MM was a given to be bundled eventually with Macs, and who uses 56k connections now anyway, surely broadband is in the majority now, or would be for people paying 4 figures for a computer. So it all makes sense to me, roll on the new Powermac.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Kate
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Oct 13, 2005, 09:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice
...., roll on the new Powermac.
Amen!
     
snaggs
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Oct 13, 2005, 09:29 AM
 
Are they still coming?

Daniel.
     
Commodus
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Oct 13, 2005, 10:38 AM
 
All PowerMacs are showing 3-5 day shipping delays on the US Apple store online. Previously the only PowerMac to show delays was the dual 2.7, which showed 2-4 days for a long while.

I'm not going to predict 3 GHz now. I think we might see dual-core (not dual-processor) 2.2 GHz, 2.5 GHz, and 2.8 GHz. No dual-duals, but we might see the price drop substantially on the configs. Notice how the $1299 iMac has a DVD writer built in, an iSight camera built-in, and a remote? I doubt Apple will start offering the iSight and remote in the PowerMac's box, so they may (for once) roll savings into the price. $1799 might be a good starting price.
( Last edited by Commodus; Oct 13, 2005 at 03:28 PM. )
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jcadam
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Oct 13, 2005, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by sodamnregistered2
Apple is just not a serious computer company anymore.

It's all about the iPods and Job's media mogul dreams.
Well, their priorities seem to have shifted a bit. They pimp their consumer grade products (iPods, iTunes, iMacs, mac mini), and are trying to hold onto the 'cool' factor they earned with the iPod/iTunes combo. They seem to be assuming that the Pro side-of-the-house will take care of itself with little to no marketing effort on their part.

I miss the pre-iPod days, btw (yea, I own a 'pod, like everyone else).

As far as Powermacs, I expect minor refreshes/speed bumps only. Nothing truly new until MacTel. Which might be ok, if PCI-Express weren't WAY, WAY overdue.

But I've got a DP2.0 (one of the non-crippled 8GB ones). I've even got an upgrade path with the X800 retail if I choose to buy one(currently have a R9800Pro) I can hold out until MacTel is here
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Eug Wanker
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Oct 13, 2005, 08:21 PM
 
     
intake
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Oct 13, 2005, 09:07 PM
 
Heh, and my Dual 2.7 is supposed to ship tomorrow. Actually it says "Sent to Manufacturing" and is listed as ship on or before Oct. 14. I wonder what I will actually get?
     
Thinine
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Oct 13, 2005, 11:21 PM
 
If I can get a quad 2.7 for the current dual 2.7's price, I may actually have to upgrade.

I wonder what it will be like to go from an iBook 500 to a quad G5 machine...
     
Eug Wanker
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Oct 13, 2005, 11:31 PM
 
Finally the new CHUD features might be of some use.
     
Collimation
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Oct 14, 2005, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by sodamnregistered2
Apple is just not a serious computer company anymore.
It's all about the iPods and Job's media mogul dreams.
Oh Really?

     
Eug Wanker
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Oct 14, 2005, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Collimation
Oh Really?

Hmmm... New user...

Anyways, if true, it's not surprising, since everyone and their dog has been expecting the quad. I hope to see a quad 2.5 on Tuesday.
     
Eug Wanker
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Oct 14, 2005, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
I hope to see a quad 2.5 on Tuesday.
Apple is now sending out invitations for an Apple event about "pro innovations" on Tuesday.
     
ReggieX
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Oct 14, 2005, 06:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by sodamnregistered2
Apple is just not a serious computer company anymore.

It's all about the iPods and Job's media mogul dreams.
Apple can't sell what they don't have. I thought that was obvious.
The Lord said 'Peter, I can see your house from here.'
     
Agent69
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Oct 14, 2005, 07:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by ReggieX
Apple can't sell what they don't have. I thought that was obvious.
Some people just like to whine.
     
darcybaston
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Oct 14, 2005, 11:58 PM
 
I'm waiting for the new models next Wednesday to be introduced at the 'pro innovations' event before I decide what to buy. I'm just hoping for a < $1,999 price point dual cpu or core model so I can squeeze a 20" monitor in, and stay under my sub $3k expense pool. Or, they can give me a monitor discount.
     
mduell
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Oct 15, 2005, 01:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by darcybaston
I'm waiting for the new models next Wednesday to be introduced at the 'pro innovations' event before I decide what to buy. I'm just hoping for a < $1,999 price point dual cpu or core model so I can squeeze a 20" monitor in, and stay under my sub $3k expense pool. Or, they can give me a monitor discount.
You can buy a dual 2.0 (4 RAM slots) refurb for $1800 today.
If you buy a monitor from Dell you can get a 24" HD and stay under $3000.
     
 
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