Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Developer · 08:07 AM

Welcome our new members Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Malta, and Cyprus!

SimeyTheLimey · Apr 30, 2004, 09:03 PM

I've always wondered about this. Are you going to add stars to that flag?

Developer · Apr 30, 2004, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I've always wondered about this. Are you going to add stars to that flag?

I count twelve, so I guess we already stopped adding stars some time ago.
I wouldn't mind a redesign though. The thing isn't much better than the new Iraqi flag.

MacGorilla · Apr 30, 2004, 09:33 PM

When can the US join the EU?

Millennium · Apr 30, 2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
I count twelve, so I guess we already stopped adding stars some time ago.
I wouldn't mind a redesign though. The thing isn't much better than the new Iraqi flag.

Already been tried. And man am I glad it didn't go through.

villalobos · May 1, 2004, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I've always wondered about this. Are you going to add stars to that flag?

No it's 12 stars and is going to stay as it is. No relations to the actual number of states.

villa
edit This said, it's pretty mindblowing to see how far the EU has come.... From the original 6 to the now 25. In about 45 years. Pretty crazy if you ask me, especially given the history of these countries.

voodoo · May 1, 2004, 06:21 AM

Wow. This is something really big. Ten new members. This will be very very interesting!

Sven G · May 1, 2004, 06:46 AM

As long as it is a Europe of nation-states, and not of regions, I doubt there'll really be any significant change, except for those related to the various economical interests.

At present, it more looks like a formal, "eurocrat" super-state, without any real unifying ideals, besides the generic "we are all Europeans", and so on slogans...

voodoo · May 1, 2004, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by Sven G:
As long as it is a Europe of nation-states, and not of regions, I doubt there'll really be any significant change, except for those related to the various economical interests.

At present, it more looks like a formal, "eurocrat" super-state, without any real unifying ideals, besides the generic "we are all Europeans", and so on slogans...

One step at a time. There isn't any big plan of creating USE as far as I know, but the union allows for incredibly more simple and effective inter-European relations. Eventually the EU countries (most) will share the same currency, no real borders, unified business legislation, unified law enforcement at some level etc. etc. The goal of the union is union. Not a superstate. New members of the union sure make things more interesting and more stuff possible. Good and bad. I think this will be very very interesting.

theolein · May 1, 2004, 07:26 AM

Guten morgen, allerseits

Spheric Harlot · May 1, 2004, 07:34 AM

SimeyTheLimey · May 1, 2004, 08:01 AM

I was watching the BBC last night. They were saying that the new members won't be allowed to participate in the EU unified labor market for seven years. Is this true? That's kind of a second class status, isn't it?

voodoo · May 1, 2004, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I was watching the BBC last night. They were saying that the new members won't be allowed to participate in the EU unified labor market for seven years. Is this true? That's kind of a second class status, isn't it?

Nah don't read too much into it. After 7 years it'll all be the same in that regard. Second class is really an unfair description. There is always a certain period of transition that new EU member countries have to go through.

Sherwin · May 1, 2004, 10:26 AM

Welcome newbies!

MacGorilla · May 1, 2004, 06:12 PM

When i was in England last year I saw a a cool bumper sticker: "Europe is my country"

macvillage.net · May 1, 2004, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I was watching the BBC last night. They were saying that the new members won't be allowed to participate in the EU unified labor market for seven years. Is this true? That's kind of a second class status, isn't it?

I believe that's part of the transition.

Today isn't the end, but just a mile marker on the road. I believe there are some limitations as they transition into the EU, slowly coming up to speed. Having several countries join, all with their own interests, would cause some turmoil and problems... by easing them in, it can be better tolerated. At least that was my understanding from what I read a few days ago.

I think it's a 10 year plan. Though the vast majority of the progress happens towards the beginning. There are a few things (mostly economic) where they are given a longer timeframe, because things just can't be achieved overnight.

Developer: What exactly is the last picture depicting? Is there any caption to that image?

itai195 · May 1, 2004, 06:54 PM

Cool photos

Congrats to the new countries. My family originates from Slovakia and Hungary

Spheric Harlot · May 1, 2004, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
Developer: What exactly is the last picture depicting? Is there any caption to that image?

"Staatsgrenze" means "state border", and the phrase at the bottom is "Bundesgrenzschutz", the border patrol.

I assume it's along the German/Polish border.

OreoCookie · May 1, 2004, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I've always wondered about this. Are you going to add stars to that flag?

Nope, the stars do not stand for countries, but for unity and shared values. 12 stars as in 12 months or 12 hours on a clock.

SimeyTheLimey · May 1, 2004, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Nope, the stars do not stand for countries, but for unity and shared values. 12 stars as in 12 months or 12 hours on a clock.

It's a bit of a coincidence, is it not, that at the time the flag was adopted (in 1986) there were 12 members of the EC? 12 members, 12 stars. Do you really think that's a coincidence?

In any case, it probably does make sense not to have a link between stars and states. Otherwise, the flag will become cluttered. The US did the same thing. Originally, each time a state was added, we added a stripe as well as a star. At around 15 stripes the decision was made to go back to 13 (for the original colonies) and just add a star for each state.

MacGorilla · May 1, 2004, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
Cool photos

Congrats to the new countries. My family originates from Slovakia and Hungary

Mine is Germany and the Ukraine....Still missing a country

Spheric Harlot · May 1, 2004, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Nope, the stars do not stand for countries, but for unity and shared values. 12 stars as in 12 months or 12 hours on a clock.

that's more a reinterpretation out of necessity.

macvillage.net · May 2, 2004, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
"Staatsgrenze" means "state border", and the phrase at the bottom is "Bundesgrenzschutz", the border patrol.

I assume it's along the German/Polish border.

Thanks.

Developer · May 2, 2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I assume it's along the German/Polish border.

It's actually the German/Czech border.

derbs · May 2, 2004, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
One step at a time. There isn't any big plan of creating USE as far as I know, but the union allows for incredibly more simple and effective inter-European relations. Eventually the EU countries (most) will share the same currency, no real borders, unified business legislation, unified law enforcement at some level etc. etc. The goal of the union is union. Not a superstate. New members of the union sure make things more interesting and more stuff possible. Good and bad. I think this will be very very interesting.

So apart from a single currency, no borders, shared business legislation and the judiciary... what exactly is left?

OreoCookie · May 3, 2004, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
It's a bit of a coincidence, is it not, that at the time the flag was adopted (in 1986) there were 12 members of the EC? 12 members, 12 stars. Do you really think that's a coincidence?

In any case, it probably does make sense not to have a link between stars and states. Otherwise, the flag will become cluttered. The US did the same thing. Originally, each time a state was added, we added a stripe as well as a star. At around 15 stripes the decision was made to go back to 13 (for the original colonies) and just add a star for each state.

Well, this was probably significant back then, but that meaning was lost in 1992 (I believe) when Austria, etc. joined.

OreoCookie · May 3, 2004, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
that's more a reinterpretation out of necessity.

Yes, I agree. But that's the official version. Obviously 25 stars in a circle would make one very crowded circle.

OreoCookie · May 3, 2004, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by derbs:
So apart from a single currency, no borders, shared business legislation and the judiciary... what exactly is left?

A confederation is left.
It'll take another 25-50 years, I guess, but it'll come.

voodoo · May 3, 2004, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
A confederation is left.
It'll take another 25-50 years, I guess, but it'll come.

At that time the EU flag will be remodeled to reflect better the Confederation it has become

OreoCookie · May 3, 2004, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
At that time the EU flag will be remodeled to reflect better the Confederation it has become

I count 10 stars, something's wrong

badidea · May 3, 2004, 05:21 AM

I celebrated this event with two lovely, sweet polish girls in the night from Friday to Saturday!
I have to say that I loved the "EU Osterweiterung"!

OreoCookie · May 3, 2004, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by badidea:
I celebrated this event with two lovely, sweet polish girls in the night from Friday to Saturday!
I have to say that I loved the "EU Osterweiterung"!

Hmmm, I just celebrated with one Polish girl

Well, girl, she's 27, and she says, she's sooooo old

f1000 · May 3, 2004, 07:36 AM

I think it's amazing that the three Baltic states are now part of the E.U. after having been part of the Soviet Union for so many years. I wonder if the rest of the Slavic countries will follow suit?

voodoo · May 3, 2004, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by f1000:
I think it's amazing that the three Baltic states are now part of the E.U. after having been part of the Soviet Union for so many years. I wonder if the rest of the Slavic countries will follow suit?

You mean Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary (ok not slavic but east block) and Slovenia?

theolein · May 3, 2004, 08:07 AM

Well, I for one am busy brushing up on my Estonian basics.

f1000 · May 3, 2004, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
You mean Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary (ok not slavic but east block) and Slovenia?

I meant the rest of the Slavic countries of the former Soviet Union, such as Ukraine.

theolein · May 3, 2004, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by f1000:
I meant the rest of the Slavic countries of the former Soviet Union, such as Ukraine.

Nope, Ukraine and Belorus are quite a long way from being even able to think of joining. The EU sets fairly strict requirments about democratic processes in a country, financial health etc in order for a country to join, and both of the above are not known for their democratic ideals or fiscal power, especially Belorus. Bulgaria and Romania will probably be the next to join, along with Croatia, if they manage to keep their economies within the EU entry standards (Not that France or Germany have in the past two years, which pisses off quite a lot of other members).

badidea · May 3, 2004, 08:44 AM

Hey theolein, one thing I just realized - you live in switzerland - this is not EU!

When will you join??

voodoo · May 3, 2004, 08:46 AM

Switzerland. Are they really this xenophobic (like Norway and Iceland?)

Oisín · May 3, 2004, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
I count 10 stars, something's wrong

If you count 10 stars in that flag, then yes, something is wrong.

theolein · May 3, 2004, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by badidea:
Hey theolein, one thing I just realized - you live in switzerland - this is not EU!
When will you join??

I joined already. I'm just waiting for the rest of the country to catch up

Sadly, knowing the Swiss and their xenophobic insular nature, that could be quite a while. Basically, I reckon as long as this country has a lot of cash, a high standard of living and is not suffering because EU countries are more competitive due to lack of import taxes, they'll stay out of the EU. They have deals with the EU on freedom to work here and there, so it's almost as if they were in it anyway. But they are also, rightly so in my opinion, scared of the Brussels juggernaut being less than democratic (The EU comission specifically). The EU does need a directly elected President and a constitution that gives the European parliment the power to provide checks and balances to the comission.

f1000 · May 3, 2004, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by Ois�n:
If you count 10 stars in that flag, then yes, something is wrong.

http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~bmw/Noises/LAUGH.WAV

Troll · May 3, 2004, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by badidea:
Hey theolein, one thing I just realized - you live in switzerland - this is not EU!
When will you join??

Probably never. Switzerland is a netural country.

theolein · May 3, 2004, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Troll:
Probably never. Switzerland is a netural country.

"netural"

Yewv bin bek to seouf efrika agen, hevent yew?

voodoo · May 3, 2004, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by Troll:
Probably never. Switzerland is a netural country.

Ya well so are Sweden and Iceland. Eh? The former a part of the EU and the latter a participant in the Coalition of the Silly. Neutrality is so pass�.

Sven G · May 3, 2004, 10:36 AM

... Switzerland, anyway, is already a confederation (on a smaller scale, of course): the EU is not, yet - and probably won't be for a long time, if the Bruxelles eurocrats continue to decide so much...