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Pol Lounge General News Thread of "This doesn't deserve it's own thread" (Page 30)
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Laminar
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Oct 3, 2017, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I really feel bad for Dax.

Dude loves motorcycles. Loves the show. Pitches the script he wrote thinking he may at least be able to be a writer on his dream project. Studio says "oh, no... direct and star in it too".

From what I've been told, guy assumed he had the next six years of his life buttoned-up in with sequels.
I was excited for it, hoped it would be like the 21 Jump Street revival. Based on the reviews I haven't bothered watching it.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 3, 2017, 06:56 PM
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4705ff2c9265

We already knew that the Pennsylvania Republican had engaged in an extramarital affair, after it came out in his mistress's divorce records. But things got much worse for Murphy on Tuesday: The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette is reporting that text messages indicate he told his mistress to get an abortion when they had a pregnancy scare.

That's especially problematic because Murphy is supposed to be an antiabortion congressman. He's got nearly a flawless voting record, as far as groups like the Family Research Council are concerned.
Either he doesn't believe what he's selling or it turns out his reality has a pro-choice bias.
     
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Oct 3, 2017, 10:11 PM
 
Anti abortionists get tons of abortions. Something tells me its a case of the theory being fine and dandy and then reality biting hard.
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Oct 4, 2017, 07:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Anti abortionists get tons of abortions. Something tells me its a case of the theory being fine and dandy and then reality biting hard.
Citation?
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Oct 4, 2017, 09:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Citation?
http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/cath...n-paradox.aspx

https://www.guttmacher.org/report/ch...-patients-2014

Many abortion patients reported a religious affiliation—24% were Catholic, 17% were mainline Protestant, 13% were evangelical Protestant and 8% identified with some other religion.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 4, 2017, 09:42 AM
 
Wow, you're off base. Many Christians are pro-Choice, including 50% of Cathloics.
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Oct 4, 2017, 11:10 AM
 
I said they get tons. By which I meant lots, plenty, more than you'd expect from people who claim to be against it.

I think I've demonstrated that to be a fair statement in the absence of an absolute numerical value for 'tons'. Look at me not dealing in absolutes all over the place now.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 4, 2017, 12:46 PM
 
You have zero proof of "tons". None. Zip. Nada. Squadoosh. Either provide evidence of "tons" or you're full of poop.
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Waragainstsleep
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Oct 4, 2017, 05:19 PM
 
There were 926000 abortions in the US in 2014 and if you apply the above breakdown then Catholics are responsible for ~25% of abortions and you say half of Catholics are pro choice so thats about 116,000 abortions. ~ 90% are performed in the first trimester, up to 12 weeks by which time the foetus is 14g. Lets say the average is 10g or 0.01Kg.

That gives 1160Kg of aborted foetuses. Thats just the pro-life Catholics in the US alone, per year. Tons.
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Oct 4, 2017, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
There were 926000 abortions in the US in 2014 and if you apply the above breakdown then Catholics are responsible for ~25% of abortions and you say half of Catholics are pro choice so thats about 116,000 abortions. ~ 90% are performed in the first trimester, up to 12 weeks by which time the foetus is 14g. Lets say the average is 10g or 0.01Kg.

That gives 1160Kg of aborted foetuses. Thats just the pro-life Catholics in the US alone, per year. Tons.
They can’t be both.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 4, 2017, 07:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
There were 926000 abortions in the US in 2014 and if you apply the above breakdown then Catholics are responsible for ~25% of abortions and you say half of Catholics are pro choice so thats about 116,000 abortions. ~ 90% are performed in the first trimester, up to 12 weeks by which time the foetus is 14g. Lets say the average is 10g or 0.01Kg.

That gives 1160Kg of aborted foetuses. Thats just the pro-life Catholics in the US alone, per year. Tons.
You don't know if the Christians having abortions aren't ALL ones who are pro-choice. Your "logic" is completely fallacious. (It's a combination of two fallacies; a classic non-sequitur and the fallacy of "big numbers".) There are literally 10s of millions of those people (pro-choice Christians) in the USA, and while I will say that a very small number of pro-lifers DO have abortions, as I know of cases first hand, it certainly isn't tons, and you have ZERO proof that it is.


Edit: In fact, I'm going to use this as an example for future discussions I have online about fallacies. I won't use your name or reference MacNN, though, obviously.
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Oct 4, 2017, 07:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
They can’t be both.
Cultural Catholics, not practicing Catholics, obviously.
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Oct 4, 2017, 07:33 PM
 
But but but that’s the true Scotsman fallacy
     
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Oct 4, 2017, 07:47 PM
 
If there weren't already 100s of millions of purely cultural Christians worldwide, they might be right.
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Oct 4, 2017, 08:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
They can’t be both.
Who can't be both what sorry?
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Oct 4, 2017, 08:39 PM
 
By Chongo's definition though, anyone who isnt catholic isn't christian... nevermind the catholics who aren't as good at it as he is.
     
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Oct 4, 2017, 10:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
If there weren't already 100s of millions of purely cultural Christians worldwide, they might be right.
I have heard the term “baptized pagans” used to describe them.
     
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Oct 4, 2017, 10:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
By Chongo's definition though, anyone who isnt catholic isn't christian.
I've never seen him say that. Ever.
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Oct 4, 2017, 11:02 PM
 
Ah the classic right wing 'not a real one' argument. S/he isn't a real Christian/Republican/Responsible gun owner. We thought s/he was, for like decades, but the second they did xyz, they ceased to be a real Christian/Republican/Responsible gun owner. Next!
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Oct 4, 2017, 11:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I've never seen him say that. Ever.
In the Jesus thread, Chongo and Jawbone discuss it.
     
subego
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Oct 4, 2017, 11:31 PM
 
I thought it was if you're not trinitarian you're not Christian.
     
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Oct 5, 2017, 01:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
In the Jesus thread, Chongo and Jawbone discuss it.
I saw that and you appear to be misunderstanding his comments. The RCC recognizes many religious organizations who are outside of them as Christian, and if there's one thing I know about Chongo is that he's very observant of Church doctrine.

At their core a majority of Christian churches accept the Nicene Creed as the declaration of their faith, not just the Roman Catholics. Sure, many have "streamlined" the Creed, but if you ask them if they believe it as it was originally, ecumenically established, they'll say "yes". Some protestant and even orthodox churches don't, they have different beliefs as to the nature of God, and from a purely theological perspective it's a big deal, because neither believes that the other's Christology is right. HOWEVER, for the sake of reconciliation, the accepted practice is to respect the other's views, and by God's Grace, it'll all get worked out after we're gone.

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Ah the classic right wing 'not a real one' argument. S/he isn't a real Christian/Republican/Responsible gun owner. We thought s/he was, for like decades, but the second they did xyz, they ceased to be a real Christian/Republican/Responsible gun owner. Next!
You're off the deep end again... I can't even see the top of your head this time.
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Oct 5, 2017, 07:06 AM
 
Really? You're going to pretend like that isn't a staple of partisan debate? The RINO is a shining example of the phenomenon. Then there is every mass shooter in US history who gets immediately disavowed as not being a responsible gun owner on the basis they are nuts and in this very thread anyone who doesn't meet the posters personal standard for a member of their own religion is ex-communicated for the convenience of trying to rebut a point.
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Oct 5, 2017, 10:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I thought it was if you're not trinitarian you're not Christian.
In a nutshell, yes. However, it technically gets even more granular than that, as there are also Modalists (as mentioned earlier) who see God as three (or more) personalities, or faces, of one God, while orthodox Trinitarians view God as three distinct beings who are one in essence, as specified by the council of Nicea. This stuff can get really nitty, and a good deal of the time is just an excuse for Theologians on both sides to grouse at each other:

"Hey guys, what does it matter, so long as you both believe in Jesus as your lord and savior?"
"But they don't believe in the Trinity!"
"Well, they're polytheists!"
"Are not!"
"Are too!"
*glare at each other*
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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Oct 5, 2017, 10:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Really? You're going to pretend like that isn't a staple of partisan debate?
A "staple"? Hardly.
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Oct 5, 2017, 11:05 PM
 
I was about to concede that I haven't seen it used so much lately before this thread but right on cue:

banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks
-LaPierre/Cox
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Oct 5, 2017, 11:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I was about to concede that I haven't seen it used so much lately before this thread but right on cue:
One, very shaky, instance (where the guy actually had been exhibiting nutty behavior for decades) is a "staple"? How is LaPierre wrong on this one? I truly believe you don't understand your own positions a good deal of the time. You start with a position you desperately want to be true, and then hunt for any and all straws you can grasp, no matter how flimsy, to back them up.
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Oct 5, 2017, 11:34 PM
 
If you don't see it then theres little point me trying to explain it to you.

When you say nutty, are you talking about Paddock or LaPierre?
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Oct 5, 2017, 11:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
If you don't see it then theres little point me trying to explain it to you.
You don't understand what "staple" means.

When you say nutty, are you talking about Paddock or LaPierre?
You've almost reached peak besson.
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Waragainstsleep
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Oct 6, 2017, 12:44 AM
 
I only asked because Paddock is irrelevant to this discussion. Further evidence you aren't getting it. Its what gun lovers always say "Why punish law abiding responsible gun owners for the actions of a criminal?" Its carefully crafted to sound reasonable to someone who doesn't think too much about it. Paddock like every mass shooter before him was a responsible law abiding gun nut this time last week. He's disqualified by definition using this bullshit argument. Its selective retroactive disavowment.
Gun owners are responsible and law abiding until they go on a murder spree;
Clergy are respectable, trustworthy men of god until they get caught balls deep in a 12 year old;
Republicans are Republicans until enough other Republicans disagree with something they say or do. They even have a term for this one because its such a staple. RINO ring a bell?
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 6, 2017, 12:58 PM
 
Why is Facebook so reticent to show what the Russians advertised on their site?
     
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Oct 6, 2017, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I only asked because Paddock is irrelevant to this discussion. Further evidence you aren't getting it. Its what gun lovers always say "Why punish law abiding responsible gun owners for the actions of a criminal?" Its carefully crafted to sound reasonable to someone who doesn't think too much about it. Paddock like every mass shooter before him was a responsible law abiding gun nut this time last week. He's disqualified by definition using this bullshit argument. Its selective retroactive disavowment.
Gun owners are responsible and law abiding until they go on a murder spree;
Clergy are respectable, trustworthy men of god until they get caught balls deep in a 12 year old;
Yep, and you're a perfectly decent guy, until you turn into a serial rapist. You see how that identifies anyone for anything, right? Clergy aren't perfect, no one has claimed they are. You're the one with the outrageous belief that somehow being a Christian minister means someone is above reproach. It's about how they handle their mistakes that defines an individual, not whether they make any at all (which they will). Why you have an unhealthy preoccupation with a tiny number of priests who are mentally ill is on you, not the Church.

The fact you can't reconcile that they're not statistically less likely to have mental disorders (a priest is no more likely to become a sexual predator than a school teacher, as shown previously), while claiming that they aren't special, is ridiculous. YOU are the one trying to place them on a pedestal, just so you can immediately turn around and tear them down again. That's kinda crappy, isn't it?

Republicans are Republicans until enough other Republicans disagree with something they say or do. They even have a term for this one because its such a staple. RINO ring a bell?
A person is anything they claim to be until it's revealed that repeated actions don't match their claims. So what?
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subego
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Oct 6, 2017, 04:43 PM
 
Random thought.

The thing with the diplomats in Cuba may be something other than an attempt to cause injury. The injury could be an unintended consequence.

What jumped to mind is some form of high-tech remote listening, but implemented in the typical, janky communist manner.
     
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Oct 6, 2017, 06:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yep, and you're a perfectly decent guy, until you turn into a serial rapist. You see how that identifies anyone for anything, right? Clergy aren't perfect, no one has claimed they are. You're the one with the outrageous belief that somehow being a Christian minister means someone is above reproach. It's about how they handle their mistakes that defines an individual, not whether they make any at all (which they will). Why you have an unhealthy preoccupation with a tiny number of priests who are mentally ill is on you, not the Church.

The fact you can't reconcile that they're not statistically less likely to have mental disorders (a priest is no more likely to become a sexual predator than a school teacher, as shown previously), while claiming that they aren't special, is ridiculous. YOU are the one trying to place them on a pedestal, just so you can immediately turn around and tear them down again. That's kinda crappy, isn't it?

A person is anything they claim to be until it's revealed that repeated actions don't match their claims. So what?
Still missing the point. Its not about the mental illness, when the perpetrator's peers disown them its used to dismiss taking preventative measures. You don't see the teachers saying "He was never a real teacher if he was dong that all along." Instead they just pedal a different version of American paranoia about ID cards being too great an infringement on the rights of citizens to become anonymous criminals to justify prevention of child rape.

The message isn't "Paddock was mentally ill, sometimes that happens", its "He's mentally ill so don't make us have to do anything to prevent future incidents, because we're all perfectly sane."

The church is a little different because rather than asking for background checks or preventative measures, people only ask that child rape stops being covered up to protect the churches public image, and that the rapists be kept away from easy access to children to rape again repeatedly in future. Maybe prosecuted to the extent of the law? It is preventative in that way, but its not really something that can seen as any kind imposition on the innocent clergy so much as basic human decency and common sense. If such things still exist.
The problem the church has is more about how a loving god can allow such disgraceful horrors to happen in his own houses, perpetrated and hidden by his supposedly holiest servants. Difficult to explain that one away with mysterious ways isn't it? They can't even claim they were infiltrated by servants of Satan in disguise since they kept them out of prison and sent moved them around so they could carry on doing it.
Make no mistake, the real villains of the piece were the higher ups who legislated the protection of these perpetrators and their public image as higher priority than the children in their care. These are those clergy voted by their peers to be the holiest of the priests until the got promoted to Bishops and Archbishops only for them to sit in meetings that went along the lines of "Father XXX at YYY has been at the choirboys again, we need to move him before theres enough of them complaining that we can't deny it any more. Anyone got any room for him?" again and again.

But please carry on about how I'm being so mean to the church.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Oct 7, 2017, 05:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Still missing the point. *snip*
YES, you are, and I can't be bothered to keep following down your hastily-dug rabbit hole of illogic, full of absurd non-sequiturs and half-assed mental gymnastics.

But please carry on about how I'm being so mean to the church.
I'll just carry on with how you don't know a damned thing about what you're attempting to discuss, as usual. Bluntly, this is what your side of the argument looks like right now:



and I'm tired of attempting to persuade someone who is so unbalanced by hate of the other side that they're deliberately dishonest about their argument. Good day, sir.
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Oct 7, 2017, 09:09 AM
 
I'm not the one being biased or unbalanced here. There are two threads interweaving a bit.
One of them has you denying a piece of common right-wing handwringing used to convince people who don't like thinking too hard that they don't need to change their wrong-headed ideas about things.
The other has you desperately clawing at some semblance of a defence for the systemic raping of children and covering it up by high-ranking, god-endorsed clergy that you somehow claim to hold to a higher standard, but yet give a pass for one of the most unforgivable crimes imaginable just because they are clergy.
We can plainly see both bias and illogic here but its not coming from me.
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Oct 7, 2017, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
You have bigger problem on you hands than the abuse that happen for the most part over 40 years ago. You have entire town councils and police departments in the UK turning a blind eye to abuse by Muslim men because "they didn't want to be called racist"
     
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Oct 7, 2017, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
We can plainly see both bias and illogic here but its not coming from me.
Certainly is. It's. All. You. Have.
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Oct 7, 2017, 01:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
You have bigger problem on you hands than the abuse that happen for the most part over 40 years ago.
He acts like it was yesterday. In fact, I think he wishes it was, just so he can hate the Church a little more. It's sad.

You have entire town councils and police departments in the UK turning a blind eye to abuse by Muslim men because "they didn't want to be called racist"
Yep. An entire class of people are getting a "rape pass" in the UK for "sexual emergencies", just for being who and what they are. Yet he's currently worried about a Catholic issue that was almost entirely before he was born. That's really being unbiased, isn't it?
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Oct 7, 2017, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
He acts like it was yesterday. In fact, I think he wishes it was, just so he can hate the Church a little more. It's sad.
Remind me, when the church was exposed, did they say "Our bad, heres a bunch more pedophile priests we've been hiding" and hand people over to the authorities? No? Then its almost certainly still happening. Even if the raping isn't, the covering up is.
Whats sad is the people trying to defend them and still claiming them to be morally superior, if not authoritative Not to mention the abject failure of god himself to take care of his own house. Of course, rape isn't a sin in the bible is it?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yep. An entire class of people are getting a "rape pass" in the UK for "sexual emergencies", just for being who and what they are. Yet he's currently worried about a Catholic issue that was almost entirely before he was born. That's really being unbiased, isn't it?
What a shame for me that I'm personally responsible for every council, government agency and police force in the entire UK. Oh wait......
Meanwhile I should at least be ashamed for singing the praises of those councils and organisations who have ignored certain crimes perpetrated by minorities. Oh wait......

I would say nice try, but you're not even close. Especially when you consider that a big part of the motivation behind the child trafficking sex rings and the attitude of muslim families who are happy for their men to do whatever they want to non-muslim girls because they don't want them bringing any shame to muslim families (you have to pay the fine when you rape a respectable muslim girl) is another shining example of shitty human behaviour endorsed by, encouraged by or at the very least entirely overlooked by organised religion. So thanks for failing so hard that you added extra weight to my original point about the main religions not being very nice. I'd post a lol for you but I don't find child rape funny any more than I find it excusable.
( Last edited by Waragainstsleep; Oct 7, 2017 at 06:11 PM. )
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Oct 7, 2017, 04:03 PM
 
BTW, what's the Jimmy Savile victim count up to?
     
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Oct 7, 2017, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
He acts like it was yesterday. In fact, I think he wishes it was, just so he can hate the Church a little more. It's sad.



Yep. An entire class of people are getting a "rape pass" in the UK for "sexual emergencies", just for being who and what they are. Yet he's currently worried about a Catholic issue that was almost entirely before he was born. That's really being unbiased, isn't it?
Or... not. Given the numbers of these people who have been convicted in the past few years. Try not to make up stuff that suits your opinion. Once the evidence against these Muslim sex rings was available prosecutions were made and succeeded. And will again. "Rape Pass" is as accurate as "Muslim no go cities"

The Catholic issue is STILL an issue because the church issues statement after statement condemning historical child abuse and then when new cases come to light quietly moves clergy aside or promotes them out of harms way. Unlike the Catholic church I suspect that several UK hospitals have actually learned from the Saville horror and instituted changes specifically designed to prevent that from happening again, something the church seems loathe to do.
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Oct 7, 2017, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Remind me, when the church was exposed, did they say "Our bad, heres a bunch more pedophile priests we've been hiding" and more people over to the authorities? No? Then its almost certainly still happening. Even if the raping isn't, the covering up is.
So you're still stuck on decades-old history while your migrants with "sexual emergencies" walk free in broad daylight.

Whats sad is the people trying to defend them and still claiming them to be morally superior, if not authoritative Not to mention the abject failure of god himself to take care of his own house. Of course, rape isn't a sin in the bible is it?
Where did you come up with that BS? In what universe would rape not be a sin? Oh wait, you're going to dig something out of the Old Testament, and then blame Christians for it, as if it relates to them? You're so incredibly ignorant regarding relationship between God and the Church it's farcical. NO ONE has claimed the clergy are "morally superior", YOU are the one trying to hold them to higher standards, again, so you can tear them down. That's pretty despicable. I'll bet you don't even know a priest or bishop, do you?

What a shame for me that I'm personally responsible for every council, government agency and police force in the entire UK. Oh wait......
What a shame for me that Catholics are responsible for every priest that diddled a kid decades ago. Oh wait.............

I would say nice try, but you're not even close.
That would be you, actually. For all their faults, Catholics have done a good job working on their issues of decades past, but you wouldn't know that. I don't know if it's the dreck you call news or just your own outdated, irrational bias, but one thing is very clear, discussing religion with you is worse than a waste of time, it's a disservice to the religion in question.
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Oct 7, 2017, 05:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
So you're still stuck on decades-old history while your migrants with "sexual emergencies" walk free in broad daylight.
Oh for goodness sake. Please. Stop. Doing. This

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7473441.html

30 seconds googling your ridiculous, inflammatory attempt to ratchet up hate and division.

walked free in broad daylight = went straight back inside while more evidence was gathered then had sentence increased. Because, well animal.

ps reported.
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Oct 7, 2017, 06:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
BTW, what's the Jimmy Savile victim count up to?
I don't know how many times I need to explain that just because other people have done it, doesn't excuse the moral authority to hundreds of millions, the church.
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Oct 7, 2017, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Where did you come up with that BS? In what universe would rape not be a sin? Oh wait, you're going to dig something out of the Old Testament, and then blame Christians for it, as if it relates to them?
So now the bible doesn't relate to Christians? Wow. I've seen arguments fall apart before but just wow.

I probably don't even need to mention then how it explicitly describes that if you 'accidentally' rape a girl you have to buy her from her father. Or that if you capture a village in war you should kill the non-virgins but the virgins are yours for the raping.
Much like slavery its nowhere to be found among the commandments and nor is rape one of the deadly sins.
Now the sex part of the rape might well be a sin. I always thought wedlock was a key part but the above examples seem to rule that out, but I'm pretty sure if you put it in the wrong hole thats still a sin whether its your wife or your rape victim.
Does any of that relate to modern Christians? I only ask because some of them seem to have issues with contraceptives and homosexuals based on throwaway comments from the OT. That would seem to suggest that even that part very much relates.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You're so incredibly ignorant regarding relationship between God and the Church it's farcical.
I thought the clergy were god's representatives on Earth and the experts on his word. I guess I also thought that might qualify them for just enough attention from the big fella that he might help just a little bit when it came to them not raping the choirboys. Maybe he did and it would have been much much worse? Is that what you're saying?


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
NO ONE has claimed the clergy are "morally superior", YOU are the one trying to hold them to higher standards, again, so you can tear them down. That's pretty despicable. I'll bet you don't even know a priest or bishop, do you?
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I will admit, I do hold clergy to a higher moral standard



Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
What a shame for me that Catholics are responsible for every priest that diddled a kid decades ago. Oh wait.............
They are responsible for every one they put back in reach of more kids. Every one they didn't hand over to the authorities (because they didn't find out in the confessional did they?) and they are responsible for moving, hiding and denying who knows how many more. So not all, but more than enough when you claim to be the moral authority for humankind.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
That would be you, actually.
I know you are but what am I? :roll eyes: Weak sauce.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
For all their faults, Catholics have done a good job working on their issues of decades past, but you wouldn't know that. I don't know if it's the dreck you call news or just your own outdated, irrational bias, but one thing is very clear, discussing religion with you is worse than a waste of time, it's a disservice to the religion in question.
How many Bishops are in prison for the cover up? One or more members of the Catholic clergy are responsible for a global policy of exposing children to dangerous sexual predators. They are directly responsible for every child traumatised for life a by a priest who was known to molest children and put back in reach of them anyway and I'd wager a good few suicides as a result too. Did anyone even get excommunicated or demoted for this crime?
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Oct 7, 2017, 09:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
[IMG]https://************************************************[/IMG]
https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/researc...iew/report.pdf
This is getting old. Have you read the report?

No. If you did you would find that superintendents are far more guilty of placing children in danger than any Bishop. We keep being told that schools are “The State” and teachers, coaches, and Superintendents are representatives of the State.

In the past I have posted links to the programs the Church has put in place.

The most recent report from the USCCB on the changes that the Church is supposed to have never made.
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-acti...ual-Report.pdf
     
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Oct 7, 2017, 09:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
BTW, what's the Jimmy Savile victim count up to?
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I don't know how many times I need to explain that just because other people have done it, doesn't excuse the moral authority to hundreds of millions, the church.
I don’t know how many times I need to explain to you just because the members of the Church have done things it doesn’t give you permission to use that to dismiss the same behavior by representatives of the state, your source of moral authority.
     
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Oct 7, 2017, 11:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
I don’t know how many times I need to explain to you just because the members of the Church have done things it doesn’t give you permission to use that to dismiss the same behavior by representatives of the state, your source of moral authority.
Except I'm not dismissing it and the state is not my moral authority. They are just the bunch of people who fine me or lock me up when I do stuff they don't like. If I could do anything about that believe me I would. And thats my state, not the one responsible for anything that happens in your school system.
Over here the closest equivalent did happen decades ago, the one guy they tried to go after died of old age before they got him, several others died before that. Actually now I think of it, I believe Theresa May did cover up a dossier about all the politicians that were involved and I've already stated how I feel about her. Thats part of why I consider her heartless and evil.
Thats the politicians, there was also a whole bunch of Radio DJs and TV presenters of which Saville was both and his antics were covered up by the BBC. Unfortunately for you, I don't even pay for a TV licence so you can't even get me there.


Reading that annual report from the church, even after the bashing I've been giving them here is sobering stuff. Just seeing those particular stats having to be published and so plainly discussed. I feel like if I was you, even fourteen years on that report would make me weep every year.
Was there ever a point since this where you considered shutting the church out of your life? I don't mean abandoning your faith, but just deciding that the organisation was beyond forgiveness and doing your worshipping without them in future. I'm not even sure exactly how that would work but I guess you could build your own private chapel or something.

The report is about as much as you could hope for from what looks to me to be self-regulation. I might have chosen to have a neutral 3rd party do the reporting and oversight if it had been up to me.
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Oct 8, 2017, 01:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Except I'm not dismissing it and the state is not my moral authority. They are just the bunch of people who fine me or lock me up when I do stuff they don't like. If I could do anything about that believe me I would. And thats my state, not the one responsible for anything that happens in your school system.
If God is not your source of moral authority, something/someone is.
I quick search shows the UK is not immune to abuse of students by teachers.

Over here the closest equivalent did happen decades ago, the one guy they tried to go after died of old age before they got him, several others died before that. Actually now I think of it, I believe Theresa May did cover up a dossier about all the politicians that were involved and I've already stated how I feel about her. Thats part of why I consider her heartless and evil.
Thats the politicians, there was also a whole bunch of Radio DJs and TV presenters of which Saville was both and his antics were covered up by the BBC. Unfortunately for you, I don't even pay for a TV licence so you can't even get me there.
So you’re stealing TV?
Decades ago?

Last week.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-41528271

Then why the need for a report abuse website?
https://www.gov.uk/report-teacher-misconduct

The “entertainment industry” has it own issues. The casting couch has been a staple since the beginning. Weinstein is a good example. Roman Polanski is another. Polanski was convicted in absentia for giving quaaludes to a 14 year old, then sexually assaulting her. The sickest part is the tribute Hollywood gave him and pleading to allow him to return. Todd Bridges tells of the abuse he and othe child actors have been subjected to.

Reading that annual report from the church, even after the bashing I've been giving them here is sobering stuff. Just seeing those particular stats having to be published and so plainly discussed. I feel like if I was you, even fourteen years on that report would make me weep every year.
At least the Church is doing something. The 14 year old report is about the world public schools.


Was there ever a point since this where you considered shutting the church out of your life? I don't mean abandoning your faith, but just deciding that the organisation was beyond forgiveness and doing your worshipping without them in future. I'm not even sure exactly how that would work but I guess you could build your own private chapel or something.
You don’t leave Peter because of Judas.



The report is about as much as you could hope for from what looks to me to be self-regulation. I might have chosen to have a neutral 3rd party do the reporting and oversight if it had been up to me.
You need to read the Dept of Ed report as well. It not only cover US schools, but Canadian and UK schools. The sad thing is many of the Superintendents of the world have not implemented the recommendations in the report.
     
 
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