[reader50]

I'm pleased to report that we are going back to vBulletin. The decision has been made, with the tech details to be worked out.

Returning will require a custom migration to avoid locking in the previous glitches. That means some code work, and time to bugtest before we move back for real.

We don't know how long this will take - I can't help personally for at least a week. It is in the works, and we have hidden the previous feedback threads in the meantime. They're no longer relevant or helpful to the work ahead.

Please be patient, and keep the sentiments down regarding the current platform. We're getting what we asked for.

[Dork.]

Good news indeed!

[turtle777]

Good news.

And someone has got to get fired over this.

-t

[besson3c]

Good! I was starting to get worried what subego would do.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Good news.
And someone has got to get fired over this.
-t

Why? Because a bunch of people on the Internet had a hissy-fit? People make poor decisions in business all the time, they only get fired when those poor decisions cost the company money (and they can't explain it away or blame someone else.)

Believe me, if the idiot running Kodak into the ground right now can't get fired, noone at MacNN is in any trouble.

[subego]

So... was this what you were expecting?

[shifuimam]

WHOOOOO!

Also: When the change is complete, can we please ban Abe and remove all of his ridiculous threads?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

So... was this what you were expecting?

Maybe hacking into the site to revoke everybody else's mod and admin privileges, and making Abe the super admin?

[Person Man]

This is indeed good news.

[ghporter]

I'm looking forward to getting back to vBulletin for a number of reasons. However most users' experiences have been with our current incarnation, moderation and administration have been tough. It's honestly been a chore for me to visit, because I guess I'm a slow learner and all of the "behind the scenes" tools are very different and not nearly as consolidated and easy to use as what we had before. A return to vBulletin will mean that we have a chance to return to those solid and sophisticated tools, and to smoothly restore everything, from the first post on the new platform onward. I expect that what we wind up with won't look exactly the same as before, but I hope everyone will think it is better.

The only thing I can say about the business end of this is that it was hoped that the Huddler platform would bring in more users through integration with the news feed from the main MacNN page, and from including more ways to interact with the forums. I expect that we'll be working on those issues with the "re-transition" to vBulletin, but in a way that our established users will find worthwhile as well.

[shifuimam]

It should be relatively trivial, from a technical perspective, to integrate forum posts with the news side of MacNN, if what they're looking for is a way for users to comment on news articles through the forums.

[besson3c]

This is good news, but it might be a good idea to discuss collectively future plans? Will MacNN pay for vbulletin indefinitely? Will there be work put in to develop a responsive (mobile) theme? The Newsposter thing? Growth strategy? Parent owner involvement/goals/desires?

[subego]

I think the most important issue by far is front page integration with the forums.

[Currawong]

All the best with the move back to VB.

[Eug]

Looking forward to it.

PS:

[andi*pandi]

dammit, that totally works. What a device!

[subego]

[mduell]

Don't bother with migration, just roll back to the old vB.

[MacinTommy]

I vote fresh start for all.

[P]

The old threads are a very good resource for people googling for solutions to Mac problems, so no, we should not start over from zero. Just using the old vB setup might be easier, but it's not my call.

[besson3c]

To me it would make sense (whether we migrate or not) to setup a test domain with vB and a copy of the forum data so that we can help hammer away at stuff and find any migration/restoration related glitches.

I'd be happy to help with stuff as needed.

[besson3c]

I'd also be happy to test my poop censor

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I'd also be happy to test my poop censor

No shit.

-t

[subego]

You mean "lots of shit".

Sorta like "don't take a dump... leave one".

[turtle777]

Well, it seems like the site statistics must have been so f*cking bad that the "higher ups" decided for a switch back.

It must be REALLY REALLY bad, otherwise they would not have admitted that kind of defeat.

My guess would be that mobile usage of 'NN (on iPhone, iPads) basically completely vanished.

Let's hope it's not too late. The trend of 'NN dying has been in place much longer than this last nail in the Forums coffin.

-t

[reader50]

That, or they do care and want to correct mistakes made along the way.

I expect to post updates as progress is made.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Let's hope it's not too late. The trend of 'NN dying has been in place much longer than this last nail in the Forums coffin.

Maybe, but the change in the forum interest after the switch was dramatic. After the switch, it seemed this place almost became a ghost town. Or at least it seemed so to this outsider.

[Ω]

Ghost town? Spambot were all over this shit!

[P]

There were just as many spambots as ever, it was just that cleaning it up got harder so it stayed around longer.

[Athens]

A lot of damage was done and I think a fresh start could be useful. All old content remains in a locked archive accessible format. But a scale down on how many different forums would be beneficial with the smaller user population.

Proposal one

Apple Hardware
- Macintosh Hardware (Desktops, Notebooks, Components, Accessories and Hacking)
- iOS Hardware (iPod, iPhone, iPad, AppleTV)
- Networking

Apple Software
- Macintosh Software (OS X, Applications, GUI Hacks)
- iOS Software (Apps, iOS)
- Other Operating Systems (BSD, Linux, Windows, ....)
- Developer Center (OS X and iOS)

Community
- Macnn Lounge (Gaming, Art and Graphic Design roll into this)
- Political/War Lounge
- Feedback
- Market Place

thought honestly I think we only really need
Hardware
Software
Developer Center
Macnn Lougne
POL
Feed Back
Market Place

We have a much smaller user base here now and the number of posts we get does not require separate sections any more.

Just my 2 cents.

[Shaddim]

or we could dump the P/W lounge and just have a politics thread.

[shifuimam]

I'd still like to see a Classic Mac forum for those of us still using OS 8/9 on older PPC Macs. It may not be very active, but if we at least have something, it might find some use...

[reader50]

Status update.

We finally got the test dump from Huddler into our regular DB. It took some conversion work - they use a different DB.

Next, I have to write import scripts to map the newer users into vB users, in the proper groups. We don't want to unban spammers in the process. Or turn subego into an admin. Or leave Ω as 'o'.

[besson3c]

Awesome! Make sure that Abe doesn't become an admin either, at least until after the election

[subego]

I'd use my powers to unban Kevin.

But I'd read all the gossipy mod lounge posts first.

[Brien]

Ditto.

[Ω]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Or leave Ω as 'o'.

Yay! Sphincter boy no more!

Abe is a douche.

[turtle777]

I think you meant to say "Abe is a dΩuche".

-t

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I think you meant to say "Abe is a dΩuche".
-t

LOLOLOL! I've sure missed turtle's razor-sharp wit!

[reader50]

Status update.

This applies to new content made since the migration. All content made under vB will be there waiting for us.

The user account import script is done, and the Posts import script is well along. As I write this, it handles the first 1,000 new posts, but throws a few edge cases in the 2nd 1,000. Which I'm working on now.

The posts do trap for user Ω, even in quotes, and substitute the right name.

Polls are uncertain - we only got the wrappers in this DB dump, not the choices and votes. PMs are missing entirely. Check again after next dump.

I now expect to skip the attachments - the translation scripts are taking too long already.

My code skills were apparently rusty. Half the time has been spent debugging, or rewriting functions to clean up sloppy code.

[Ω]

Honestly if it is an issue/time consuming you can just change my username.

=)

Ω

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by reader50 

My code skills were apparently rusty. Half the time has been spent debugging, or rewriting functions to clean up sloppy code.

Only half? You're probably missing something, then.

[Spheric Harlot]

Couple of notes:

1.) The integration of the news comments into the forum actually appears to be working. There's been an influx of new members in recent weeks, and occasional spillover of comment veterans into the "regular" forums. It is probably unwise to reverse this.

2.) I like that images can now be attached to forum posts, rather than necessarily being hosted elsewhere.

3.) I've come to rely upon the mouseover (single-tap) post previews in the forum overview/newposts lists. I never thought I'd like this, but I find myself missing it a lot on other forums where I actually have to load the thread to get an idea of what the last post was.

4.) I find it tremendously annoying that the news comment mods have zero presence/experience on the rest of the forums and vice versa. It makes for…inconsistent moderation.

5.) Why the **** are news stories sometimes cross posted into both the Tech News AND Mac News forums? Consolidate into "News" forum, or actually have News Moderator/author link story to appropriate forum (iOS/Mac/Tech News/Lounge, augmented from suggestion in other thread).

6.) forums.macnn.com/forums/newposts should be the default view, and the number of forums drastically reduced.

7.) Goddamn, some of the interface for the Huddler version is ****ing BLOCKHEADED. Like the actual text area of the "search forums" field not matching the outline that would suggest a text entry field. I clicked four or five times before I figured out what was broken.
I'm really looking forward to people who actually give a shit regaining some control over such issues.

[Shaddim]

What he said. Also there's no direct link to advanced search in the forum itself.

#2 on Spheric's list is huge, saves time, especially on a touch device.

[P]

1) I agree. It is encouraging.

2) That's possible in vB as well, it's just that that feature was not enabled for whatever reason (probably load).

6) Make a bookmark. Really. We need something like the current view as the first thing a noob sees. The number of forums we have talked about before, but I think the main issue is that it's not possible to go back after you have joined forums up, which causes some reluctance. Generally I agree that we should have fewer, though.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by P 

6) Make a bookmark. Really. We need something like the current view as the first thing a noob sees.

I have that set as my default bookmark.

You have a good point, but I've found that the "new posts" view makes this place seem a lot less dead.

Perhaps it should be more prominently offered to people once they've registered?

[Spheric Harlot]

Oh yeah, one more:

8.) vB used to just bold threads with new posts since my last visit. This sucked if you just pulled up the page on your iPhone to pass a couple minutes, but didn't get around to reading everything before putting it away. Look at it again at home on the iPad or Mac, and all threads are marked "read".
The way the Huddler platform retains read/unread status across sessions is MUCH nicer.

[reader50]

I still hate that "feature", it requires one to manually mark-posts-read on every single visit. And you have to click through a confirm dialog each time. It does make more sense for mobile users surfing in spare time. Ideally, the new-posts behavior would be a user pref. I'll look into it, but probably not until after we're back.

We just got a fresh DB dump, and the attachments. 1 GB of them. I can see why we didn't enable those before, the DB is ~4GB. Three months with attachments enabled and the size goes up 25%. I'll have to figure out how we'll handle that.

[Spheric Harlot]

I really don't care that threads are still marked "unread".

I just ignore the ones that don't interest me, and I find it more useful to know whether I've read the latest responses to a thread I AM interested in.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

The way the Huddler platform retains read/unread status across sessions is MUCH nicer.

This might be the feature I enjoyed about Huddler most.