[Spheric Harlot]

That explains why people were trying to turn it into a news story, not why Shaddim and others are getting worked up over it in threads like these.

I have a daughter, too, and I couldn't give two shits and a spoonful of phlegm for Miley Cyrus, whoever the **** she is, or whomever she ****s or doesn't.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

That explains why people were trying to turn it into a news story, not why Shaddim and others are getting worked up over it in threads like these.

I have a daughter, too, and I couldn't give two shits and a spoonful of phlegm for Miley Cyrus, whoever the **** she is, or whomever she ****s or doesn't.

This is awfully intense isn't it? I mean, you find this thread less useful than the soylent thread or the mashup -- complete gibberish thread?

[Spheric Harlot]

No.

I find the intensity and seriousness brought towards this topic COMPLETELY misdirected.

I appreciate that people can be concerned. But of all the things to be concerned about at the moment, this is probably the LEAST deserving of attention.

Yes, I'm participating myself, but at a different level. Miley doesn't interest me. I find it interesting that people who have a sense of what's important are giving her such attention.

The mashup thread is a light-hearted diversion, end of story. This thread here isn't taken lightly, for some reason.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

No.

I find the intensity and seriousness brought towards this topic COMPLETELY misdirected.

I appreciate that people can be concerned. But of all the things to be concerned about at the moment, this is probably the LEAST deserving of attention.

Yes, I'm participating myself, but at a different level. Miley doesn't interest me. I find it interesting that people who have a sense of what's important are giving her such attention.

The mashup thread is a light-hearted diversion, end of story. This thread here isn't taken lightly, for some reason.

It's frustrating to me how worked up some people are getting not realizing that there will be future Miley Cyrus variants - that is an absolute guarantee, and that there is a very specific reason why this happens, it isn't just random. Hell, it wasn't long ago where we went through the Lindsay Lohan thing which is the same damn thing.

[The Final Dakar]

The photoshops are starting to come out, and they are glorious.

Don't have any handy ATM

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

So one million traumatized kids have fled from Syria, another estimated two million are on the run within Syria, kids who have seen people maimed and murdered, while the US and UK are about to go to war, and the Internet fights and speculates about this one kid whose career depends upon staying in the limelight, who may or may not have gone off the deep end, but who has ample means to recover in some luxury clinic and sell the right to her story to various magazines over the course of a lifetime.



I mean, seriously.

I can't do many things outside this country, much less the M.E.. The USA meddles too much over there, as it is.

There's also the "happiness bell curve". Having too little money is stressful, can't pay your bills, can't buy clothes and food, it largely makes a person unhappy. In the middle-upper and upper classes things are great. Not a lot of worries over bills, you have all the things you need and can afford a lot of the things you want, but not everything. At the top end, beyond the 1%, call it the .1% or whatever, there's about as much misery as with the first group. You can't trust anyone, people you've known your entire life turn on you, and your most heartfelt material desires are literally a call or click away. That's key too, when you can afford virtually anything and everything, few things have actual value. I have my budget for toys, if I spend beyond my budget I'm just hosed. Is the budget actually necessary? Not really. But it keeps me from the "okay, now what?" scenario. As for friends and family, I've become jaded and callous. I have my circle, but the folks I get to know beyond that are acquaintances and they stay that way. New people don't get in, and that's that.

When my financial life changed, I had to change me, top to bottom, and there's nothing in this world tougher to do than that. It took a while too, and people on here have commented to me about it, but if I hadn't it would have wrecked me, and I would have been worse off than I was before. Power corrupting, and all that kind of thing. That's where we come to Miley. Some people never handle wealth very well, and being a celeb makes it worse, and it doesn't really matter if you're born into it or come by it later. Her publicists and managers are telling her what she needs to do to remain relevant and in the public eye, to achieve "success" (thankfully the sex tape approach has run its course and people are tired of it), not because she needs more fame and cash, but because they want it and they sold it to her. Now she's a product, she's meat, and whether she makes it past 27 is anyone's guess, but right now the odds are getting worse.

[Spheric Harlot]

All true, but why care?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I can't do many things outside this country, much less the M.E.. The USA meddles too much over there, as it is.

There's also the "happiness bell curve". Having too little money is stressful, can't pay your bills, can't buy clothes and food, it largely makes a person unhappy. In the middle-upper and upper classes things are great. Not a lot of worries over bills, you have all the things you need and can afford a lot of the things you want, but not everything. At the top end, beyond the 1%, call it the .1% or whatever, there's about as much misery as with the first group. You can't trust anyone, people you've known your entire life turn on you, and your most heartfelt material desires are literally a call or click away. That's key too, when you can afford virtually anything and everything, few things have actual value. I have my budget for toys, if I spend beyond my budget I'm just hosed. Is the budget actually necessary? Not really. But it keeps me from the "okay, now what?" scenario. As for friends and family, I've become jaded and callous. I have my circle, but the folks I get to know beyond that are acquaintances and they stay that way. New people don't get in, and that's that.

When my financial life changed, I had to change me, top to bottom, and there's nothing in this world tougher to do than that. It took a while too, and people on here have commented to me about it, but if I hadn't it would have wrecked me, and I would have been worse off than I was before. Power corrupting, and all that kind of thing. That's where we come to Miley. Some people never handle wealth very well, and being a celeb makes it worse, and it doesn't really matter if you're born into it or come by it later. Her publicists and managers are telling her what she needs to do to remain relevant and in the public eye, to achieve "success" (thankfully the sex tape approach has run its course and people are tired of it), not because she needs more fame and cash, but because they want it and they sold it to her. Now she's a product, she's meat, and whether she makes it past 27 is anyone's guess, but right now the odds are getting worse.

Do you think we can change the conditions in which she is made into a product?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

All true, but why care?

Glad you asked. Our society isn't "top>down" as most believe, it's "bottom>up". The wealthiest of people, like it or not, are the roots of this Tree. They support the structure; drive the markets, steer the media, make the decisions that alter the lives of one and all. That's a lot of power, and it isn't going anywhere. Sure, there are revolutions and the like, but that only changes the players, not the game. When the "bottom" .1% have a "contentment quotient" of <35%, which is historically typical, you can guess what happens. The more happy, and content, those people are with themselves, the more stable the entire structure becomes. If the owner of the business you work for is having a shitty day and hates his/her life, how much can that affect you? That joy in living can either come from squashing people and gloating over their troubles, and I've met more than a few of those at the top, or they can find a new way to address their needs (love, acceptance, self-determination) in a constructive way, by building who they really want and need to be. Part of that is by restraint, re. fixed budgets, but also there's self-analysis, diet/rest (no joke), positive goals, and nurturing empathy within themselves for everyone around them, without leaving themselves vulnerable.

While we do a great deal with the top of the tree, helping those in material need, particularly children, I also work with and advise wealthy people and I consult on their emotional needs. Every one of those men and women I can "reach" is like bolstering up 100,000 (or more) within the 99.9%, because not only do you factor in their money but also their peripheral influence. Along the way I also charge them a lot of money, most times, because they won't value something if it's free or cheap, and all that money goes to fund things at the "top". My spouses call it Voodoo Philanthropy, but they've also seen that it works. I'm not a shrink, but I do walk in their shoes and understand how they feel. I connect with them.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Glad you asked. Our society isn't "top>down" as most believe, it's "bottom>up". The wealthiest of people, like it or not, are the roots of this Tree. They support the structure; drive the markets, steer the media, make the decisions that alter the lives of one and all. That's a lot of power, and it isn't going anywhere. Sure, there are revolutions and the like, but that only changes the players, not the game. When the "bottom" .1% have a "contentment quotient" of <35%, which is historically typical, you can guess what happens. The more happy, and content, those people are with themselves, the more stable the entire structure becomes. If the owner of the business you work for is having a shitty day and hates his/her life, how much can that affect you? That joy in living can either come from squashing people and gloating over their troubles, and I've met more than a few of those at the top, or they can find a new way to address their needs (love, acceptance, self-determination) in a constructive way, by building who they really want and need to be. Part of that is by restraint, re. fixed budgets, but also there's self-analysis, diet/rest (no joke), positive goals, and nurturing empathy within themselves for everyone around them, without leaving themselves vulnerable.

While we do a great deal with the top of the tree, helping those in material need, particularly children, I also work with and advise wealthy people and I consult on their emotional needs. Every one of those men and women I can "reach" is like bolstering up 100,000 (or more) within the 99.9%, because not only do you factor in their money but also their peripheral influence. Along the way I also charge them a lot of money, most times, because they won't value something if it's free or cheap, and all that money goes to fund things at the "top". My spouses call it Voodoo Philanthropy, but they've also seen that it works. I'm not a shrink, but I do walk in their shoes and understand how they feel. I connect with them.

What do you think Miley Cyrus is going to be driving and steering once she is no longer the new and shiny thing?

I think you are conflating wealthy power brokers (i.e. people that create stuff that has lasting impact) with just people that have money. Miley has no real power, she just has money right now.

[subego]

She can get people to pay her fantastic sums of money.

That's not power?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

She can get people to pay her fantastic sums of money.

That's not power?

It's not lasting.

[subego]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

mashup -- complete gibberish thread?

Screw YouTube Top

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

No.

I find the intensity and seriousness brought towards this topic COMPLETELY misdirected.

I appreciate that people can be concerned. But of all the things to be concerned about at the moment, this is probably the LEAST deserving of attention.

Yes, I'm participating myself, but at a different level. Miley doesn't interest me. I find it interesting that people who have a sense of what's important are giving her such attention.

The mashup thread is a light-hearted diversion, end of story. This thread here isn't taken lightly, for some reason.

I'm more disgusted by the media abuse of this event, but I suppose you're correct in that it's peoples' fixation on this sort of thing that drives the mania. I also agree that this ranks just below rearranging the sock drawer in order of importance.

I saw a single, still pic of her from that night and about the only entertainment value was the look of horror on the faces of Will Smith's family.

[subego]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

It's not lasting.

Nothing is inherently. It depends what you do with it.

It hasn't lasted for the Disney children who fame didn't chew up (Timberlake, Aguillera)?

[subego]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I saw a single, still pic of her from that night and about the only merit in the debacle was the look of horror on the faces of Will Smith's family.

Whip my tongue back and forth!

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What do you think Miley Cyrus is going to be driving and steering once she is no longer the new and shiny thing?

I think you are conflating wealthy power brokers (i.e. people that create stuff that has lasting impact) with just people that have money. Miley has no real power, she just has money right now.

I'm kinda slammed right now, but go here, read it, then form a counterposition based on what influence she can potentially buy (current wealth ~$170M, with a net increase of 30% YOY) and how that could impact the people she's connected to.

[andi*pandi]

If Miley plays her cards right, she could be where Madonna was 20 years ago, one of the richest women in the world, actress, singer, author, influential. Breaking out of the disney mold is one card... but it was overplayed.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I saw a single, still pic of her from that night and about the only entertainment value was the look of horror on the faces of Will Smith's family.

That was actually a shot of them watching GaGa that was erroneously attributed to Miley.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That was actually a shot of them watching GaGa that was erroneously attributed to Miley.

Seriously?!? I had one thing to latch onto this story and you've ripped it out from under me.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Glad you asked...

While on one hand, I honestly appreciate your contribution, on the other, I'm a little appalled people need counseling on how not to be evil.

I guess I should be satisfied they want it in the first place, but you know what? I'm not.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

While on one hand, I honestly appreciate your contribution, on the other, I'm a little appalled people need counseling on how not to be evil.

I guess I should be satisfied they want it in the first place, but you know what? I'm not.

That's normal, why should anyone need to teach another person not to be an asshole? But it isn't about good and evil, or even right and wrong, it's about understanding their own motivations, and the motivations of others, and cultivating empathy. Distilling it down to its essence, it's a way (or process) to help them see that everything and everyone around them isn't disposable. The end result is that it helps improve their self-image and promotes generosity by stimulating their desire (self-control), while at the same time making them less vulnerable by strengthening their willpower.

The biggest mistake regular people make is thinking "they're just like anyone else", when that isn't true at all. Rich, powerful people don't think the same way as everyone else; part of that is what makes them rich in the first place and the other half is a byproduct of it.

[subego]

These people you treat sound like sociopaths.

[Shaddim]

Wealth and power can cause a disconnect, and it makes it worse when "normal" people hound them all the time.

No offense to Spheric, I get what he was talking about, but comments such as, "All true, but why care?" are more revealing to me, and express a vital part of the issue. You care because it's better and more beneficial for you, not for them.

Also, I don't "treat" them, they aren't patients. I'm more of an advisor or life coach, and at times a mentor.

[Spheric Harlot]

I pay attention to things I consider worth my time. Do I try to explain to my daughter why millions of children are suffering, and why there's about to be a war that will probably see tens or hundreds of thousands more killed, or do I get worked up over some provocative marketing? What is worth our attention? She already knows how show business works, to some extent. Wearing flamboyant costumes and putting up a show on stage are part of the deal.

You can get worked up over Miley Cyrus, but your getting worked up is exactly why it happened in the first place. Madonna, 2 Live Crew, the Beatles, the Stones, the Pistols, wardrobe malfunctions, and dozens and dozens more over various decades, fed the publicity machinery off people like you thinking it mattered.

It never did, but you're falling for it, and with the Tipper Gores of this world, guaranteeing that this schtick will continue to happen, because it works.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Wealth and power can cause a disconnect, and it makes it worse when "normal" people hound them all the time.

I'm willing to give you a hefty benefit of the doubt because you're trying to describe something I assume is complicated in a few paragraphs, but jeez... talk about having entitlement issues.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I pay attention to things I consider worth my time. Do I try to explain to my daughter why millions of children are suffering, and why there's about to be a war that will probably see tens or hundreds of thousands more killed, or do I get worked up over some provocative marketing? What is worth our attention? She already knows how show business works, to some extent. Wearing flamboyant costumes and putting up a show on stage are part of the deal.

You can get worked up over Miley Cyrus, but your getting worked up is exactly why it happened in the first place. Madonna, 2 Live Crew, the Beatles, the Stones, the Pistols, wardrobe malfunctions, and dozens and dozens more over various decades, fed the publicity machinery off people like you thinking it mattered.

It never did, but you're falling for it, and with the Tipper Gores of this world, guaranteeing that this schtick will continue to happen, because it works.

That's an assumption. I don't care about her stage act, Alice Cooper has a good one too, it's the details around it, her tells. There are some big issues she needs to address and she's doing a poor job of it. There's not much worse than feeling completely alone in a room filled with people who want something from you. I feel bad for her and know what she's going through.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm willing to give you a hefty benefit of the doubt because you're trying to describe something I assume is complicated in a few paragraphs, but jeez... talk about having entitlement issues.

Now stop and take a step back and look at the irritation, and even some aggression, that this subject brings up just by having a friendly talk about it. You can see there's a lack of empathy that runs both ways. Villainizing these people only works to further cement the problem and turn them into what many believe them to be, an enemy. I coach them to open up and be more compassionate, even in the face of all the envy and greed they see each day, because it makes them better people. They get a chance to see that rampant materialism isn't making them happy, that a degree of restraint and self-control is its own reward. It doesn't matter what other people believe or want from them, because ultimately they need to become someone that they themselves admire.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That's an assumption. I don't care about her stage act, Alice Cooper has a good one too, it's the details around it, her tells. There are some big issues she needs to address and she's doing a poor job of it. There's not much worse than feeling completely alone in a room filled with people who want something from you. I feel bad for her and know what she's going through.

That makes sense.

I can't judge whether your assessment of her situation is accurate or just projection, because I really don't want to deal with the subject itself.

But at face value, what you say explains your involvement in this thread.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Now stop and take a step back and look at the irritation, and even some aggression, that this subject brings up just by having a friendly talk about it. You can see there's a lack of empathy that runs both ways. Villainizing these people only works to further cement the problem and turn them into what many believe them to be, an enemy. I coach them to open up and be more compassionate, even in the face of all the envy and greed they see each day, because it makes them better people. They get a chance to see that rampant materialism isn't making them happy, that a degree of restraint and self-control is its own reward. It doesn't matter what other people believe or want from them, because ultimately they need to become someone that they themselves admire.

Flat-out, I should have displayed more empathy if only as a courtesy. These aren't hypothetical people to you, and I should be, shall we say... empathic to this fact.

So, mea culpa. Total dick move on my part.

But (you knew there'd be one) you're painting a really unsympathetic picture. I can feel sympathy for far worse people than the ones you're describing, but like those people, whether I'm feeling sympathy or aggression is highly dependent on the presentation.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

The photoshops are starting to come out, and they are glorious.

Don't have any handy ATM

Still waiting on those photoshops.

[subego]

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

Still waiting on those photoshops.

Here ya go, courtesy of Imgur:

[The Final Dakar]

You probably picked the best one.

[Shaddim]

My fav:

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

My fav:

That referee guy looks like Turtle777!

[subego]

Here's her new album cover.



Any "**** you" to Disney is okay by me.

[ebuddy]

She's just... not even good looking. I mean, she looks like an ordinary, run-o-the-mill, average looking girl trying WAY too hard for a gimmick to make her stand out. And it's not working. At least, not for me.

[subego]

Not sure it's being aimed at you.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

She's just... not even good looking. I mean, she looks like an ordinary, run-o-the-mill, average looking girl trying WAY too hard for a gimmick to make her stand out. And it's not working. At least, not for me.

It's a shame that her appearance is even relevant to her value as a musician. I'm not criticizing anything you've said here, just a sad world that we live in...

[subego]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

It's a shame that her appearance is even relevant to her value as a musician. I'm not criticizing anything you've said here, just a sad world that we live in...

Rock and pop are almost just as much visual mediums as they are audio.

If you want people to judge you as a "musician", you shouldn't focus on pop songs for 16-year-olds.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

Rock and pop are almost just as much visual mediums as they are audio.

If you want people to judge you as a "musician", you shouldn't focus on pop songs for 16-year-olds.

I know, I know...

The visual aspect is nothing new either, it is just frustrating.

[subego]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I know, I know...

The visual aspect is nothing new either, it is just frustrating.

Why?

Is there a pop/rock star inside you which can't get out because you're visually uninteresting?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

Why?

Is there a pop/rock star inside you which can't get out because you're visually uninteresting?

I'm super interesting.

The totality of the music business is frustrating when coupled with this. That is, the pop star formulas, the bottom feeding, the control over the industry by the major record labels, the labeling, what is rewarded, etc.

[subego]

There's all kinds of shit to get frustrated about, and I'm right there with you, but bemoaning the fact looks matter in an art form with a major visual component isn't a criticism of the industry, it's a criticism of the genre.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

There's all kinds of plant to get frustrated about, and I'm right there with you, but bemoaning the fact looks matter in an art form with a major visual component isn't a criticism of the industry, it's a criticism of the genre.

It's more so the ratio, the whole form over function thing.

[subego]

I agree the ratio can be tweaked, but it's rock music. The form is the function.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by subego 

I agree the ratio can be tweaked, but it's rock music. The form is the function.

I disagree.

For one, on semantics. What is rock? Rock is sort of like jazz, it covers such a tremendous amount of ground that it has outgrown its label. Were the Beatles and Rolling Stones all about the form? Chuck Berry?

But yeah, I don't mean to pick apart what you said, generally speaking modern pop is very much about form over function.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by subego 

Not sure it's being aimed at you.

Good point. I just can't imagine who, in this phase. I actually think she could be beautiful, but to each their own.

[subego]

I could see it working for me on some level, but she's way too young looking.

Unlike lots of guys I know, I've been blessed with age appropriate attractions.