Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

MacTraderboy · Feb 29, 2004, 03:30 PM

Graham Dutton aka [email protected] and [email protected] had agreed to a transaction with me.

After about a week of exchanging almost 2 dozen emails he lied several times. After we had agreed to a deal he came back the next day and said he wouldn't be sending anything because our deal wasn't good enough. We made a new deal and he agreed to send it, a few days later when I contacted him he said he had changed his mind again.

This is a lesson about joining heatware.com. Graham isn't a member and seemed to avoid joining there when I mentioned it. Now I know why.

yanokwa · Feb 29, 2004, 07:28 PM

Thats the unfortunate nature of online sales. I have had people try to use escrow sites besides escrow.com and some other tricks.

My tips:
*If you use Paypal, wait for the money to clear and then transfer it into your bank account.
*Don't use any other Escrow site besides escrow.com
*Don't accept credit card numbers--process them through Paypal only.
*Make sure the person has lots of eBay and Heatware.

kpne1home · Feb 29, 2004, 07:42 PM

Did you end up losing any money to him or did he just drop the deal after you agreed. I hope you get your money back if you lost some.

Captain Obvious · Feb 29, 2004, 08:29 PM

So he changed his mind, big deal. Maybe his financial situation changed.

I'd be far more weary of doing business with you. I believe all your posts are for sale threads. My understanding is that MacNN does not allow threads from commercial businesses to help their sales but I believe you are skirting around the rule simply because you do not have a large enough surplus to make Mac sales a full time business.
Which is fine but sketchy enough that I would not get involved with such a person.

This guy you are warning about seems to have not taken any merchandise or payment from you so I do not think your warning is sufficient to warrant caution. He backed out of a deal with someone who is "representing" themselves as just a guy selling his Mac stuff and not some business who made a contractual agreement for the sale of their merchandise.

Mr. Blur · Mar 1, 2004, 12:53 AM

just a suggestion - while you may be having a little dispute with this person, it still is not very cool to post *both* his email addresses (and seeing as he has a hotmail and a shaw.ca i would assume he likes to keep the shaw.ca one a bit more "private") in such a way that they are easily readable by spammers email harvesters. perhaps you should at least edit your post so that the email addresses are like "reiddutton at shaw dot ca"

MacTraderboy · Mar 1, 2004, 03:59 AM

First of all, if you notice all my sale items are things that are personal use like video games I no longer play and old joysticks/mice I no longer use. There isn't any profit in selling $15-$20 items but rather than send them to Goodwill, I figured someone here might want them. And last week I did post looking for some items http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...readid=202985. I guess that wasn't obvious enough for you Captain. That is fine if you don't want to do business with me. I prefer to deal with people who know what they are talking about, don't bull others and appreciate someone who is honest and straight to the point. From the sound of it, you and I wouldn't get along.

I posted his email address like that because I wanted anyone who searched for him on the board (like I often do before buying from someone) to be able to find it. I figure someone who plans to be dishonest would never join a feedback website like heatware.com. The only way to warn others/find out about them is to search and make sure no one else has had any problems with that person.

Thankfully I didn't lose any money. Just a lot of time and effort. He had agreed to send money by paypal. Three days later still (and after I had told other buyers it was sold) I finally heard from him and he said he decided not to send the money after all. If someone went around contacting sellers, promising to send money but never did, wouldn't you want to know about in case he contacted you? Wouldn't you want to know before you were the one waiting on him and telling other buyers the item was no longer available?

Captain Obvious · Mar 1, 2004, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by MacTraderboy:

I didn't lose any money. Just a lot of time and effort. He had agreed to send money by paypal. Three days later still (and after I had told other buyers it was sold) I finally heard from him and he said he decided not to send the money after all. If someone went around contacting sellers, promising to send money but never did, wouldn't you want to know about in case he contacted you? Wouldn't you want to know before you were the one waiting on him and telling other buyers the item was no longer available?

boy,

look at most of the threads that post items for sale here and at Ars. A lot of them result in someone saying they will take the item and for one reason or another the sales falls through and the seller has to relist or bump the thread. Usually because the buyer backs out.
What happened to you is nothing special. No money or merchandise is lost.
This isn't ebay where you can leave trivial feedback about the guy. If he did something that resulted in you losing something valuable people might understand but since you take so much time to complain about nickel and dime items your time can't be worth that much. You are just a whiner.

Nomarack · Mar 1, 2004, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
boy,

look at most of the threads that post items for sale here and at Ars. A lot of them result in someone saying they will take the item and for one reason or another the sales falls through and the seller has to relist or bump the thread. Usually because the buyer backs out.
What happened to you is nothing special. No money or merchandise is lost.
This isn't ebay where you can leave trivial feedback about the guy. If he did something that resulted in you losing something valuable people might understand but since you take so much time to complain about nickel and dime items your time can't be worth that much. You are just a whiner.

Hopefully you get screwed on your next trade and it turns out to be someone people knew about, but nobody posted on because otherwise you would portray them as "whiners". Take what the guy is saying and if you don't agree, then go your merry way. Calling the guy a whiner and accusing him of being a dealer on mice and used video games makes you look like the whiner and the idiot rather than him.

gorickey · Mar 1, 2004, 11:31 AM

The world is such a bitter, bitter place these days...

sledsbehave · Mar 1, 2004, 12:14 PM

i think this is the wrong way to handle it. i agree, nothing lost. this just sounds like ordinary business to me. i mean really, what if every seller posted someone's email address when the deal fell through?? no one would do business here at all. i have seen a lot of deals fall through, once you email the person and find out different things, or take time to think the deal over, anyone could change their mind.

this is petty and i for one think this guys email addresses should be deleted, if not this whole thread

Mr. Blur · Mar 1, 2004, 12:24 PM

remember too, we are only getting one side of the story....it is quite possible that the other party involved has a different perspective on what happened. mactraderboy - if you are going to post your problem in here, at least let the the other guy know so that he can tell his side of the story too.

Lateralus · Mar 1, 2004, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Nomarack:
Hopefully you get screwed on your next trade and it turns out to be someone people knew about, but nobody posted on because otherwise you would portray them as "whiners". Take what the guy is saying and if you don't agree, then go your merry way. Calling the guy a whiner and accusing him of being a dealer on mice and used video games makes you look like the whiner and the idiot rather than him.

He has no right to whine. He lost nothing. He ended up dealing with a nut job. So what? The fact that he posted this will not keep people from dealing with the guy since chances are that 1) He will get into a deal with somebody who didn't bother to read this thread, or 2) He will simply register under a new name and with a new e-mail address.

And I agree that using MacNN only for your personal marketplace is not right. If you're not going to join our forum community, you have no right to use our marketplace. Especially if you put up a fight about posting an asking price (per the rules).

amphora · Mar 1, 2004, 05:19 PM

Thank you for the heads up. Its as simple as that.

MacTraderboy · 10:03 AM

There is a difference between a buyer backing out (which does happen all the time) and what Graham Dutton did. He said "OK, I will send you the money by PayPal tonight." Three days later when I still hadn't gotten the money and still hadn't heard anything about it, I emailed him. It was only after I emailed him asking about the money that was already supposed to be sent, that he told me he wasn't sending it.

I would think most people prefer to deal with honest people and avoid dishonest people. His avoidance of joining heatware.com even before the deal was finished, his agreeing to pay and then not, his not even being considerate enough to let me know he wasn't sending payment all prove he is dishonest. How can you phraase it as anything else?

And he does know about this thread but I didn't catch his MacNN username so I think he is trying to keep anyone from finding out.

cesious · 11:03 AM

I am a newbie here so I am not sure what the right way of doing things is but I have written asking someone about something they were selling and then decided I didn't want it. Of course I never agreed to buy it and said I would send the money and then just blew them off either. That is wrong and certainly would tweak me to. I would certainly want to know if someone did things like that before they tried buying something from me.

Captain Obvious · 11:40 AM

Originally posted by cesious:
I am a newbie here so I am not sure what the right way of doing things is but I have written asking someone about something they were selling and then decided I didn't want it. Of course I never agreed to buy it and said I would send the money and then just blew them off either. That is wrong and certainly would tweak me to. I would certainly want to know if someone did things like that before they tried buying something from me.

Amazing. So you emailed and declined an offer to buy something in the one day you have been a registered member? And not only that but you found your way to THIS thread in twenty minutes from the first post you ever made on MacNN?
WOW, what a coincidence you agree with boy

Listen boy, you made your point (I guess) but you don't have to make up new usernames to try and get people to believe it. That's just sad, especially when you are trying to talk about dishonesty

The fact he didn't buy your item doesn't prove he is dishonest. Maybe he got busy, maybe he forgot, maybe he had to pay some bills. I am sure the majority of people here don't use Heat, its not required and no one is forced to use it if they dont want to. You make it sound like you had thousands of dollars coming towards you from the sale of this item that you were counting on for some life saving operation for your 5 year old kid when I bet this was some 20 bucks for a trinket.

amphora · Mar 2, 2004, 11:24 AM

I totally agree cesious. Thanks again for the head up MacTaderBoy. Those of us who like these smooth transcations and honest deals appreciate to know that we should proceed with caution wih some people. It is unfortunate that the others who do not like these sort of transactions seemed to take offence to your warning.

cesious · Mar 2, 2004, 12:05 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
[B]Amazing. So you emailed and declined an offer to buy something in the one day you have been a registered member? And not only that but you found your way to THIS thread in twenty minutes from the first post you ever made on MacNN?
WOW, what a coincidence you agree with boy

I have been on the LEM Swap List for awhile because it was the only place to find stuff for my old Mac. Someone on another forum told me that this was the place to get help with my new Mac and possible find a video card for it. Then I found this board while looking for the video card. Is everyone on this forum always so rude and assuming or are you guys just having a bad day? I wasn't trying to offend anyone with my opinion.

Nomarack · Mar 2, 2004, 03:18 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cesious:
[B]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Amazing. So you emailed and declined an offer to buy something in the one day you have been a registered member? And not only that but you found your way to THIS thread in twenty minutes from the first post you ever made on MacNN?
WOW, what a coincidence you agree with boy

I have been on the LEM Swap List for awhile because it was the only place to find stuff for my old Mac. Someone on another forum told me that this was the place to get help with my new Mac and possible find a video card for it. Then I found this board while looking for the video card. Is everyone on this forum always so rude and assuming or are you guys just having a bad day? I wasn't trying to offend anyone with my opinion.

I think Captain Oblivious just doesn't like it when people disagree with him. And especially not when at least 4 people don't agree with him.

sledsbehave · Mar 2, 2004, 06:34 PM

i think the whole thread is silly...

you lost nothing in the deal.

if it's a good deal, you will have no problem selling it to another person, if you could quit complaining here and get to it

a refusal to sign up with heatware means notta!! notta!

to me it shows i wouldn't want to deal with the seller in this transaction. it's like a pressured sell.

any salesman or person selling things, knows until the money is in yr hand, yr buyer could back out. you have got to be 15 to not understand this.

LET THERE BE A FREEDOM TO CHANGE ONE'S MIND --

and i gotta say if someone said they were sending me money 'tonight", they would hear from me in the morning if it wasn't there, not three days later.

MacTraderboy · Mar 2, 2004, 09:06 PM

Thanks Cesious but you will learn that on most forums agreeing with other people means the attackers aim at you also.

Regardless, I did try to contact him the next day and he ignored my emails for three days (readverify.com verified he had read them) before he finally responded.

LUCK · Mar 5, 2004, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by MacTraderboy:
Thanks Cesious but you will learn ....

Thanks for the heads up TB, and thanks to those who are obvious ly the captian of flame, a short forum search would also prove that in spades....like a fly to stink.
Is good to see the Mac comminity looking out for each other. Isnt so good to see those trying to help or those who are victims continually called stupid or trivial. But that seems to be the Obvious norm for some.

petehammer · Mar 5, 2004, 07:15 PM

It's best to just ignore Captain Oblivious and move on.

Captain Obvious · Mar 5, 2004, 10:49 PM

Yeah apparently from what others seem to think about hammer in other threads its the easiest way he found to escape from noticing the truth despite group consensus.
Good teacher if you want to follow in the path of the moronic.