[Uncle Skeleton]

What are you doing? Anything special?

[besson3c]

Nope, except wondering how long this anniversary will be observed.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Nope, except wondering how long this anniversary will be observed.

Really, you gotta stir the pot of 9/11 on 9/11?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Nope, except wondering how long this anniversary will be observed.

∞..

[besson3c]

Okay, I'll chill and save it for another time.

Sorry for those whom I've offended. It was more of a open ended question than a leading question anyway, I don't have an answer for it.

[Railroader]

I think it was a simple question. "What are you doing? Anything special?"

To answer the simple question:
A boy in our house has his birthday today so we are celebrating that today, and then later a friend is having a surprise birthday party for her husband and we are attending that this evening. We spent some time praying today and talking about the events as a family. A couple kids who were born overseas were touched emotionally when we described to them about what happened that day. They asked if there was a parade or something we could go see, I told them I like to celebrate this day doing what I usually do other than a few times set aside to pray and remember what I went through that day.

[imitchellg5]

Working, duh.

[Dork.]

Are we supposed to be doing anything than what we normally do on a Saturday? When does September 11th become a normal day again? (Or, perhaps, at least as normal as December 7th is. I wasn't around for that one. When did that become a normal day again?)

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

Are we supposed to be doing anything than what we normally do on a Saturday? When does September 11th become a normal day again? (Or, perhaps, at least as normal as December 7th is. I wasn't around for that one. When did that become a normal day again?)

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Maybe when we can no longer get a newspaper and see pictures of people in tears, or something? (I'm not mocking them in any way)

[Dork.]

No, we'll always see those pictures, if for no other reason that there were thousands of lives suddenly lost that day, and even if their families have moved on they will still mourn, their emotions will still come back. They will always have the memorial ceremonies, and we should have them for the benefit of the families, and people should feel they can cry at them if they need to.

But it seems to me that the country as a whole still hasn't fully moved on, even if most New Yorkers have. (They had to move on: the city can never lie still for long.)

[besson3c]

"Always"? Are you sure? Even beyond this generation? If I had kids and my grandparents died in Pearl Harbor, I doubt my kids would shed a tear on Pearl Harbor day, as you alluded to.

[Dork.]

I was thinking that We + Always = our lifetimes. As in you, me, and whoever else is lame enough to click on this thread.

And there will probably always be ceremonies on 9/11, even if they are not held every year after a while. I guarantee that there will be a ceremony on September 11, 2101 (assuming New York/The USA/Humans are still intact)

[besson3c]

I see... I guess our lifetimes is at least a good a bet as any as to how long we'll be having ceremonies and stuff on 9/11.

Do you think that *not* having a mournful sort of ceremony is a demonstration of resilience, or an act of insensitivity, and however you answer does the same sort of thing apply?

[paul w]

I found myself in the new playground in Brooklyn across the river from the site. At one point I looked up, noticed the helicopters and tried to remember what the view was like with the towers, and couldn't quite exactly.

It was a beautiful day, much like nine years ago - though a tad warmer.

[Dork.]

Then even though we'll never forget it, maybe it becomes a normal day when we can't quite remember anymore.

[Big Mac]

Interesting thread. Pearl Harbor is still meaningful to me. Horrific assaults don't have to die out in our memories just because decades, centuries or even millennia pass. But those who don't have as much concern for history will increasingly disregard such remembrances.

Of course, we're less than a decade out from 9/11, so those who would prefer to forget can't do so all that plausibly. We should remember and learn our lessons from it, one of which includes not ignoring escalating global terrorism threats. We also need to be steadfast in rejecting political forces like political correctness or whitewashing that attempt to obfuscate or otherwise deny the facts surrounding [the] attack.

[bstone]

Spending the day in prayer with my family and my community and my people.

[Spheric Harlot]

I think it will have an abstract significance to the generation born after 2001, much like the mentioned December 7th, or November 9th (important date for a number of reasons).

[ctt1wbw]

I had to work, but I did DVR the History Channel shows. One of the ones that always gives me a laugh are the conspiracy theorists episodes. Those guys are such nut jobs.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

Then even though we'll never forget it, maybe it becomes a normal day when we can't quite remember anymore.

As long as the bars are open I don't care.

[andi*pandi]

We went to the Life is Good Festival, heard some music, danced, saw some cool things, had fun. At one point a band played a song about New York, and I was, oh, right, that makes sense.

I remember 9/11, but I don't want to dwell or watch the footage again.

[King Bob On The Cob]

I'm from a military area in a military family. It's tough to forget when family members and friends are still getting called to active duty 9 years out. I did the same thing I've done every year since 2001; I said a prayer that we would win the hearts and minds of the people on the fence in Afghanistan and turn public opinion against those that who hate us and brought this upon us, then I went back to living my life.

[iranfromthezoo]

I am a little late to the party but I don't think it's just something that you can forget about and walk away from. I am a fulltime firefighter and 343 of my brothers died in those towers trying to save people they didn't know. I know some FDNY and I know the guys I work with and if something like that happened again we know without a doubt that we'd do the same thing. It's not about being a hero, that crap is overrated and there are no heros. It's about doing our job and hopefully coming home alive to see our family. These guys had families, they were getting off work, they were off work. They could've said today is my day off, this isn't for me. They could have said as an Engine or Ladder company that we aren't going in there, but they did. It's our job to remember what they did, at least I feel that it's my job.

Firefighting is a dangerous job...everyone knows that. I am not asking to be thanked, I get paid to do it. My goal is to go home safe to my wife and to make sure the people I work with are safe. Yeah, we've saved some peoples lives but we've also lost some, it comes with the job. I watched 9 of my friends go into a burning building never to come back out alive. I had to listen to them on the radio as they told their wives and children that they loved them and there wasn't anything anyone on scene could do. I choose to honor and remember the fallen 343 on 9/11. Life has returned to normal, people have begun to hate firefighters and think we are a waste of taxpayer money and that's fine. But I am going to remember the fact that because of those guys, and the NYPD and port authority, many people are going home to their families, going to soccer games and dance recitals. How do you think the families of those people whose dad or mom didn't come home? If your ever in NY stop by a firehouse, those guys will never forget and they will carry those scars for the rest of their lives, but whats amazing is they still do the job. That's honoring 9/11. Not being afraid, doing your job and being the best you can be.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo 

I am a little late to the party but I don't think it's just something that you can forget about and walk away from. I am a fulltime firefighter and 343 of my brothers died in those towers trying to save people they didn't know. I know some FDNY and I know the guys I work with and if something like that happened again we know without a doubt that we'd do the same thing. It's not about being a hero, that crap is overrated and there are no heros. It's about doing our job and hopefully coming home alive to see our family. These guys had families, they were getting off work, they were off work. They could've said today is my day off, this isn't for me. They could have said as an Engine or Ladder company that we aren't going in there, but they did. It's our job to remember what they did, at least I feel that it's my job.

Firefighting is a dangerous job...everyone knows that. I am not asking to be thanked, I get paid to do it. My goal is to go home safe to my wife and to make sure the people I work with are safe. Yeah, we've saved some peoples lives but we've also lost some, it comes with the job. I watched 9 of my friends go into a burning building never to come back out alive. I had to listen to them on the radio as they told their wives and children that they loved them and there wasn't anything anyone on scene could do. I choose to honor and remember the fallen 343 on 9/11. Life has returned to normal, people have begun to hate firefighters and think we are a waste of taxpayer money and that's fine. But I am going to remember the fact that because of those guys, and the NYPD and port authority, many people are going home to their families, going to soccer games and dance recitals. How do you think the families of those people whose dad or mom didn't come home? If your ever in NY stop by a firehouse, those guys will never forget and they will carry those scars for the rest of their lives, but whats amazing is they still do the job. That's honoring 9/11. Not being afraid, doing your job and being the best you can be.

No offense... and I'm serious, I don't mean to offend you... but you come across as a complete cliche firefighter. Like. A lot.

[Spheric Harlot]

You didn't think they existed?

Or is this a problem for you?

I don't get it.

[downinflames68]

No, I know they existed... but... it's just really odd.

[iranfromthezoo]

None taken. Firefighters are wired different and most think the same way. We get treated like crap by lots of people. We just don't want people to forget what happened. Being a firefighter is like joining a fraternity. I work 24 hour shifts with 3 other people. So we become close, like a family. Not a lot of people understand it.

[downinflames68]

I don't hate firefighters, so... you have one ally.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

No offense... and I'm serious, I don't mean to offend you... but you come across as a complete cliche firefighter. Like. A lot.

Are we assuming that being cliché is a bad thing?

[Railroader]

He's not "meaning to offend" ...

Then why does it seem like he is?

[Laminar]

YouTube - South Park - Ladder To Heaven

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

He's not "meaning to offend" ...

Then why does it seem like he is?

His post was pretty awkward, to say the least. But I also think that he doesn't get being dedicated to an altruistic purpose, such as firefighting. Most people don't.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Are there really people that waste any amount of time hating firefighters and treating them like crap?

I know there are people that hate cops- I'm sure after runs ins with the bad apples on the force- but what would compel anyone to hate firefighters? (Other than being a serial arsonist, that is.)

It's not like firefighters go around hassling anyone in the course of actively preventing people from setting fires, they mostly only show up after the fact and do what they can to save a hell of a lot of lives and property.

Even from the tax argument angle: most of us in the 'don't raise taxes every time the govt. spends itself broke' camp, get sick of politicians using fire, police, emergency and education services as their pawns, threatening to cut obvious hot-button items if they aren't allowed to extort more money, rather than all the massive spending waste that they know no one would complain about if they 'threatened' to cut. That's not viewing firefighters as a waste of tax-dollars, quite the contrary- it's not falling for politicians allowing them to be used as further 'tax and spend' pawns.

[Oh Cubeoid]

I'm not trying to be insensitive my any means but if 9/11 were an ice-cream flavor, what would it be?

[Spheric Harlot]

Chunky asshole.

[Oh Cubeoid]

Hmmm I would have thought it was rage or pain.

[Spheric Harlot]

I *think* you're trying to be funny.

You're probably ****ing hilarious, and I'm just not getting it - being German and all, right?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I *think* you're trying to be funny.

You're probably ****ing hilarious, and I'm just not getting it - being German and all, right?

Isn't that kind of racist?

[Railroader]

Every time I go to the airport and have to go through security (a couple times a month), I am reminded of 9/11. I don't think the effects of the actions of some crazy people are going to go away any time soon. Let alone remembering and honoring the people killed in the attacks and the deaths of those who tried to save them.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I *think* you're trying to be funny.

You're probably ****ing hilarious, and I'm just not getting it - being German and all, right?

Nope, the British don't get it either.
And, as you know, we invented humour.... ...to better cope with living in this shitty country.

[Oh Cubeoid]

We should all forget about 9/11

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And, as you know, we invented humour.

[Doofy]

I think someone is confusing "humour" with "Guinness and fighting".

[James L]

<sideNote>

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo 

Firefighting is a dangerous job...everyone knows that.

While dangerous, it amazes me when I look at the stats for the most dangerous occupations. Using the bureau of labor statistics for 2008, and looking at fatality rates and injury rates, you actually see that firefighting is way down on the list:

1) Fisherman: 129 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 61 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

2) Loggers: 116 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 7 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

3) Farmer/Rancher: 40 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 7 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

4) Construction worker: 46 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 6 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

5) Sanitation worker: 37 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 5 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

6) Pilot: 72 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 2 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

7) Roofer: 34 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 3 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

8) Coal miner: 22 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 6 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

9) Merchant mariner: 23 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 5 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

10) Miller: 12 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 9 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

11) Power line installer: 30 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 3 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

12) Police officer: 16 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 3 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

13) Firefighter: 7 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 6 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

14) Oil and gas driller: 24 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 1 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

15) Cement worker: 13 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 3 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

16) Taxi driver: 21 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 1 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

It is interesting that fisherman, farmers, and garbage collectors have statistically more dangerous jobs than firefighters do. Heck, you are 3 times more likely to die on the job driving a cab.

This ends my slightly off topic Cliff Clavin moment.

</sideNote>

[Doofy]

Now there's an interesting statistic...

6) Pilot: 72 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 2 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.
13) Firefighter: 7 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 6 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

...it's ten times safer to intentionally run into a burning building than it is to fly.

[James L]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Now there's an interesting statistic...

6) Pilot: 72 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 2 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.
13) Firefighter: 7 fatalities per 100,000 workers, 6 reported injuries per 100,000 workers.

...it's ten times safer to intentionally run into a burning building than it is to fly.

Apparently. Having said that, firefighters don't run into burning buildings that often. Much more often the guys I work with seem to take a containment approach, or "surround and drown" if you like. iranfromthezoo could discuss firefighting tactics much better than I could, but my point is that what many people perceive to be a dangerous "running into a burning building" is actually a well thought out, relatively safe approach to fighting a fire. With obvious exceptions of course (people trapped, etc).

It's worth mentioning that I didn't post this to bash fire personnel... they do great work and I've worked alongside them for 14 years. It's more that I find it interesting how if you asked anybody to create a top 10 list of the most dangerous professions most people would put firefighting very high on the list, whereas the stats show that some of the very mundane jobs are actually the really dangerous ones.

[Spheric Harlot]

Just goes to show that Americans have a penchant for overdramaticizing and romanticizing "manly" stereotypes - the lonesome cowboy, the dashing fireman, the heroic soldier, etc.

The "brotherhood" aspect of firefighting doesn't seem nearly as heavily put on over here as it is in the U.S.

[Railroader]

Every country can't be defined by it's outrageous porn.

[brassplayersrock²]

… or calendars

[James L]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Every country can't be defined by it's outrageous porn.

No matter how hard they try.