[Boondoggle]

The problem with the dock on the side is that they get all garbled with tools in apps like PhotoShop. I know, I've tried it. I would rather spend those pixels on the sides, but the aps get in the way too much.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Boondoggle:
The problem with the dock on the side is that they get all garbled with tools in apps like PhotoShop. I know, I've tried it. I would rather spend those pixels on the sides, but the aps get in the way too much.

I thought that would be a problem at first too. But just make a habit of it to move your windows and tool palettes so that they work with the side-dock. You just have to set it once per app so it won't take forever. There are stupid apps that forget window positions, but there aren't too many fortunately.

Since I've done this I have much more screen real-estate to work on - especially since on this 17" iMac I have lots of horizontal space.

[Stradlater]

So what's with the "Working offline" text in the Mail.app screenshot? And why is there an active activity monitor when no camera is connected? and the export button in process manager a Mail icon? and i don't understand the censoring in the last pic...

[Richyfp]

Originally posted by Stradlater:
So what's with the "Working offline" text in the Mail.app screenshot? And why is there an active activity monitor when no camera is connected? and the export button in process manager a Mail icon? and i don't understand the censoring in the last pic...

The working offline text is very odd, but the "active activity monitor" is surely just an audio level meter rather than anything to do with video. The export button in activity monitor is probably customisable so that you can have it send reports to a certain email address (useful for server monitoring) or otherwise. Maybe. The censoring in the Expose picture is very strange indeed. I can understand iChat, but not Safari or iTunes!!

[tarkap]

I was just thinking...

It would be nice if there was an Apple option to have *everything* be either aqua or brushed metal... so it wouldn't look so mix-n-match between Apple's own apps.

It would also calm the brushed metal haters down so they don't have to see any brushed metal apps again!

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by fourstarcltv:
mmmm... very nice indeed.

If the title bar wasn't totally out of place.

[Gul Banana]

I agree, the title bar does _not_ fit well with Aqua; it looks too much like the "out of focus" version.

[wreising]

I think all the screenshots so far look elegant and refined - with the very notable exception of the same old lame icons for documents, movies, pictures, etc. But I guess that is what Iconfactory is for.

I want the OS X GUI to evolve. Change is good. I like the idea that I can recognize which version of the OS is running just by glancing at a screen. I want to be able to spend time exploring new tools and new ways of doing the same boring things I do every day.

And if there is something you don't like, don't forget all the talented developers out there eager to modify and extend OS X for you.

No matter how much he might like to be, Steve isn't the final arbitur ot how we use our Macs. I'm looking forward to Steve's new vision of OS X and I'm sure I'll love every part of it more than many around here, but I'm also sure that I'll change icons, fire up Synergy and Konfabulator right away and fiddle with every setting I can.

The only serious problem I have with things as they stand now is that the Stevenote conflicts with my Bar Review course so I can't go down to the Apple Store and watch.

Talk about a serious moral crisis. Having to choose between prepairing for the biggest test of my life and seeing Panther and the new G5 for the first time :-)

At least passing the Bar will give me the chance to make enough to buy a G5. So if that works out it will all be worth it.

[DeathMan]

It looks bad, I don't believe that steve would let that replace what we know as aqua.

Either way, I think I'm moving over to the Studio Pro theme.

I don't believe those screenshots for one second, though.

[brainchild2b]

First I know where they came from. They are indeed real. Some of the stuff is blocked out because it "could" point back to the company. Also some is blocked out because he didn't want to steal "Apple's Thunder" this was also a very early beta build.

those screenshots don't do it justic because of the lossy jpeg compression the new stuff looks BEAUTIFUL JPEG doesn't deal well with the reduced smoothed out strips theme


For those of you complaining about the brushed metal finder... Everything can be changed. You can change between the different themes to suit yourself. Everybody gets to have their OS the way they like it.

No more I don't like the look posts! It's also very early build.

This is also stripped down with some of the ad ons. The newest builds have different icons in the system preferences. One that is different in the latest builds is the mouse icon which has been updated to show the new two button mouse with scrollwheel.

Everyone relax. Everything can be customized very much.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by barbarian:
why are people assuming these are real?

Because there is so many of them and there are some great ideas!

If they are not real, then it is just a modified version of jaguar.

But I am inclined to believe it they are real.

[sushiism]

Originally posted by brainchild2b:
For those of you complaining about the brushed metal finder... Everything can be changed. You can change between the different themes to suit yourself. Everybody gets to have their OS the way they like it.

please tell me you can have it just like the jag finder, without the sidebar thing and with your shortcut things in the toolbar just like it and in aqua that would put my mind at ease

[beb]

I just like the idea of the whole thing being a tad faster.

[DVD Plaza]

Originally posted by brainchild2b:
For those of you complaining about the brushed metal finder... Everything can be changed. You can change between the different themes to suit yourself. Everybody gets to have their OS the way they like it.

Is that a system wide setting - so we can finally %#&^ off this brushed metal crap from everything, not just Safari?

Originally posted by brainchild2b:
First I know where... this was also a very early beta build.

Please tell me the title bar hasn't stayed that way - that gradient effect looks so out of place, it's dog ugly.

The titlebar effect that swiz came up with (ignoring the rest of the theme) would suite it much better:

[brainchild2b]

Originally posted by sushiism:
please tell me you can have it just like the jag finder, without the sidebar thing and with your shortcut things in the toolbar just like it and in aqua that would put my mind at ease

Yes you can. There are all sorts of modes. Kinda like windows ;-) You can turn off all that fancy stuff. But I'll be you that once you try it out for yourself and see it in action you won't want the old modes.

But Yes, you'll be able to.

[sushiism]

ahh thanks as long as i know i can have the jag way i love then im not too bothered and look forward to variation

[tikki]

One thing I am glad about is that the Help command is out of the contextual menus. That was annoying because I tended to accidently click it too much.

[Uncle Skeleton]

I get the help by accident (in menus too), but it's not so bad since I have about 45 bounces to kill it before help viewer actually launches :)

[Busemann]

Originally posted by Uncle Skeleton:
I get the help by accident (in menus too), but it's not so bad since I have about 45 bounces to kill it before help viewer actually launches

Speaking of Help Viewer: will it receive a much needed overhaul?

[Richyfp]

Originally posted by Busemann:
Speaking of Help Viewer: will it receive a much needed overhaul?

I'm sure that WebCore (and JavaScriptCore) will be standard frameworks in Panther and I would hope that Help Viewer (along with other apps, like Sherlock) would take advantage of that.

[Webscreamer]

Originally posted by Richyfp:
I'm sure that WebCore (and JavaScriptCore) will be standard frameworks in Panther and I would hope that Help Viewer (along with other apps, like Sherlock) would take advantage of that.

Yeah... hopefully mail too! Help Viewer sucka ass is, so I hope they update that.

[york28]

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
The problem is how that pane can be removed. (And it damn well better be collapsable in an easy fashion - that's a problem with Windows Explorer)

In WIndows 2000 it's just one checkbox in the prefs. Not sure about XP.
It's an interesting idea, though, moving away from the idea of folders and towards other methods of organization. But it doubt it'll be the only option, cause it's going to confuse the hell out of some people.

[Mithras]

Originally posted by ARENA:
Based on what information you say that?

I phrased that all wrong:

Which is why I think Apple should stick the Dock on the side by default (where 90+% of users where leave it)

What I meant was: I think 90% of users leave the dock at whatever the default position is. Currently the bottom, but in my ideal universe, the right side.

[Geobunny]

Originally posted by brainchild2b:

<SNIP>
This is also stripped down with some of the ad ons. The newest builds have different icons in the system preferences. One that is different in the latest builds is the mouse icon which has been updated to show the new two button mouse with scrollwheel.

I was quite sceptical, but willing to believe, up until I read that last bit. At the risk of rehashing an old topic, there's no way Apple will release a 2 button mouse with scroll-wheel and only if they did, would they reflect it on-screen. Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

<covering my back> As ever, I could be wrong though! </covering my back>

[Rickster]

Speaking of Help Viewer: will it receive a much needed overhaul?

Probably. But if they do, they'll still manage to find some other way for it to be the Worst App Ever. Help Viewer has been totally rewritten a few times in OS X's evolution, and every time it's always been horribly broken in some new and different way.

[calimehtar]

Speaking of Help Viewer: will it receive a much needed overhaul?

I suppose that's one good use for webcore which will presumably be made public with Panther.

[iMike_4OSX]

For all of those who think they're fakes, here's an excerpt of the letter we got from Apple:

It has come to our attention that you are posting Apple Computer, Inc.
("Apple") confidential and proprietary material on your website located at
http://www.4osx.com

Specifically, you have posted unpublished Apple screen shots from Mac OS X,
v. 10.3 at the following URL's:

http://www.4osx.com
http://www.4osx.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=1408

You should be aware that by displaying the Material, you may be
unlawfully disclosing Apple's trade secrets and are infringing Apple's
copyrights in violation of federal law. Apple believes that the person who
disclosed the Material to you violated a non-disclosure agreement with
Apple. Consequently, Apple has never authorized the Material to be
disclosed or published, and your continued display could result in you
and/or your company being held liable for violating Apple's intellectual
property rights.

The key words are "Specifically, you have posted unpublished Apple screen shots from Mac OS X"

Beleive us now?

[Gankdawg]

Originally posted by iMike_4OSX:
For all of those who think they're fakes, here's an excerpt of the letter we got from Apple:

It has come to our attention that you are posting Apple Computer, Inc.
("Apple") confidential and proprietary material on your website located at
http://www.4osx.com

Specifically, you have posted unpublished Apple screen shots from Mac OS X,
v. 10.3 at the following URL's:

http://www.4osx.com
http://www.4osx.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=1408

You should be aware that by displaying the Material, you may be
unlawfully disclosing Apple's trade secrets and are infringing Apple's
copyrights in violation of federal law. Apple believes that the person who
disclosed the Material to you violated a non-disclosure agreement with
Apple. Consequently, Apple has never authorized the Material to be
disclosed or published, and your continued display could result in you
and/or your company being held liable for violating Apple's intellectual
property rights.

The key words are "Specifically, you have posted unpublished Apple screen shots from Mac OS X"

Beleive us now?

Wouldn't it be funny if just once Apple sent an email to someone saying something like "Dude, you are so far off we're not even going to ask you to remove your pictures!"

[ambush]

Originally posted by iMike_4OSX:
For all of those who think they're fakes, here's an excerpt of the letter we got from Apple:

It has come to our attention that you are posting Apple Computer, Inc.
("Apple") confidential and proprietary material on your website located at
http://www.4osx.com

Specifically, you have posted unpublished Apple screen shots from Mac OS X,
v. 10.3 at the following URL's:

http://www.4osx.com
http://www.4osx.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=1408

You should be aware that by displaying the Material, you may be
unlawfully disclosing Apple's trade secrets and are infringing Apple's
copyrights in violation of federal law. Apple believes that the person who
disclosed the Material to you violated a non-disclosure agreement with
Apple. Consequently, Apple has never authorized the Material to be
disclosed or published, and your continued display could result in you
and/or your company being held liable for violating Apple's intellectual
property rights.

The key words are "Specifically, you have posted unpublished Apple screen shots from Mac OS X"

Beleive us now?

Considering you're not the first site to receive such letters and that those letters use the same template (which has been published many times on the web), no, it's not a good proof.

Oh and.

URL's

[Macpilot]

If that is Panther, I am disappointed. Jaguar is much slicker looking and more professional.

[dmoore]

Originally posted by Macpilot:
If that is Panther, I am disappointed. Jaguar is much slicker looking and more professional.

Oh, and Jaguar is finished!

[Mike S.]

Jaguar is finished? So?

The only possible reason I might be able to except the completely inconsistent appearance of those screenshots is if they were merely tests of a built in OS X theme engine and they're testing bits and pieces of different themes.

Even that is stretching it to me, you didn't see OS X DPs with half assed Aqua appearances did you? Aqua was consistent through out, same with Jag when screens were leaked of it's refined appearance.

Those shots just look like hacked together crap.

When it comes to the Apple legal letter, perhaps they just don't want Panther getting a bad rap before they can show the real thing, I just hope that isn't it.

[Webscreamer]

I think you need to cool off and shut up and watch tomorrow...

but hey, thats just me.

[BuonRotto]

For whatever reason, I think the screenies are real, but from an early build from a while ago -- an alpha even. By now, while icons, alignments and details won't all be in place, it's probably a more polished beta ready for developers, enough so that it's clear what the standard and finished product will look like for them. I'm sure they have yet to dot the i's and cross the t's, and this looks even less mature than that. But I just have a hunch...

[Phoenix1701]

Thought I'd give my two cents' worth...

Thoughts:

• The badly centered/labeled toolbars are very suspicious, as is the Europeanization of the text in the Process Viewer knockoff. Moreover, I think the appearance is badly done and extremely nonstandard. That said, Apple has been known to release badly done and nonstandard pieces of software before (though rarely), and it's not entirely impossible that Mac OS X 10.3 may have become the latest casualty. I just really hope not, because if developers start to model their applications on some of the more craptastic misfeatures in the Finder (like that label selection menu -- good luck clicking on those little dots!) we're all in for a world of hurt.
• Some other elements pointed out as being suspicious actually aren't. The button in the toolbar that duplicates a contextual menu is actually not a horrible idea, and the progress bar in iChat could theoretically have been for microphone volume.
• Before the Internet, the accepted plural of acronyms often involved an apostrophe (so URL would, indeed, become URL's). Nowadays that's much less common, but in stilted legalese it's probably still acceptable.
• The fact that iCal says June 20th doesn't necessarily mean the build is recent. Think about it for a second, and you'll realize that all that date does is serve as the most recent possible build, since they don't expire and there's no reason to assume that the Apple employee him or herself took the screenshots; he or she could have given them to a friend or friends, one of whom took the shots sometime after installing it.
• Expos� looks extremely cool. I rather hope it actually exists.

All things considered, I hope that this is actually a very old build of the OS. VERY old, old enough that the team that designed the interface can be suitably punished, mutilated, and replaced... it's either that or believe that the entire thing is a complete fake, which is certainly not impossible... but it could also just be a spectacularly shoddy job of interface design. I guess we'll see tomorrow, but I feel confident in at least placing my chips firmly AWAY from the "this is exactly what we're going to see tomorrow" camp.

Let's see how my bet turns out.

[DBvader]

i dont know, those pics seem pretty off.

if you look at the full screenshot, it looks like the menu bar, dock, and icons are running ats 1440X960 (or whatever the imac runs at), yet the apps are all smaller (running at higher resolutions...).


i dont think that these are real...

[Socially Awkward Solo]

I still don't fully understand what what Expos� does.

[Phoenix1701]

DBVader and SAS: that's Expos�. Basically it takes all your windows and (temporarily) intelligently resizes them and relocates them on your screen so no two windows overlap. Then the idea is you can click on whatever window you want and it'll put everything back the way it was before, except the window you clicked on will be frontmost.
I'd probably find a use for it (the Dock menus don't help me much, honestly), but it'd be more useful as a universal keyboard shortcut, I think... and it does seem like a lot of trouble to go to just to click a window when a few Command-Tabs and Command-`s will work just as well.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by Phoenix1701:
DBVader and SAS: that's Expos�. Basically it takes all your windows and (temporarily) intelligently resizes them and relocates them on your screen so no two windows overlap. Then the idea is you can click on whatever window you want and it'll put everything back the way it was before, except the window you clicked on will be frontmost.
I'd probably find a use for it (the Dock menus don't help me much, honestly), but it'd be more useful as a universal keyboard shortcut, I think... and it does seem like a lot of trouble to go to just to click a window when a few Command-Tabs and Command-`s will work just as well.

It will be allot easier than command tabbing through wondows, you will effectively be able to zoom out of you Desktop and then select a window and zoom back in, I can see myself getting used to this way of working, lets hope it some quartz zooming efects on the windows too.

If its included in the final it will be very cool.

see my original idea here (similar concepts):

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...al+resolutions

[DBvader]

ah, thanks phoenix.

at 1600X1200, i dont have much problem with room, though. i am able to run mail, safari, adium, etc wthout any overlap. it seems like an intresting idea, though.

well, then, there goes my theory

[GRAHAMUK]

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Yeah, based on the screenshots I've seen of users here on MacNN, most have it on the bottom. Me included. Not sure where the 90+% came from.

It's a well-known FACT that 87.3% of statistics are simply made up on the spot... -Vic Reeves

[Diggory Laycock]

Originally posted by Mike S.:
Jaguar is finished? So?

...

Even that is stretching it to me, you didn't see OS X DPs with half assed Aqua appearances did you? Aqua was consistent through out, same with Jag when screens were leaked of it's refined appearance.
....

[Nathan Adams]

Since I won't be up long enough to watch the keynote until I get up in the morning, answer me this

you say you can change the look of the Finder back to how it is in Jag... what about the titlebars and menu bar? i'm a big fan of the current Aqua stripes - an much prefer them to what looks to be effectively plain white, and grey gradients

[murk]

Originally posted by Tim2 at Omni:
I don't buy it. I think Panther is going to be a lot more than a fugly Finder, slightly reworked icons in apps which have otherwise not changed, and a re-worked *Activity Monitor*. Come on... this isn't Microsoft we're talking about here.

So, Tim2, what do you think about Panther now?