[shifuimam]

Hey, I never said I was classy all the time.

You can ask my boyfriend - I fart in public way too frequently. It puts most men to shame.

[subego]

Originally Posted by subego 

FWIW, responses like that make you come off as someone who's been subjected to severe mental abuse.

I'd guess you think you are masterfully hiding it, but it's clear as glass to everyone here.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I'm disturbed because I don't buy into fat acceptance?

Yeah, I'd totes tap that.

No. Your appear disturbed because you'd rather continue to rant (still ranting by the way) instead of read what I'm writing.

You enjoy this rant. Far more than the dialogue you're ostensibly having with me.

The normal reason people take pleasure in hate is somebody did something bad to them. If this isn't the case, and you're this hateful for no reason...

Well, honestly I'd have a hard time believing that. For all my criticism, you don't seem like a scumbag.

[shifuimam]

I don't HATE fat people. Most of them have a serious food addiction and need help. Hating and not legitimizing are two different things. I don't get behind movements that try to legitimize sexual promiscuity, being obese, or generally engaging in behaviors that are unhealthy.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Hey, I never said I was classy all the time.

"I never said I wasn't a hypocrite all the time"

[shifuimam]

roffle.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

She was trolling.

You know, being "classy"

That's actually quite a relief.

[shifuimam]

I can't believe you seriously thought that I believe all women deserve to get raped.

Wow.

[subego]

I'll try it again then.

The people who say any weight is legitimate are overreacting.

What they're overreacting to is fat people get treated like shit regardless of how legitimate they feel their own fatness is.

Similarly, the people who say any mode of dress and behavior is acceptable are overreacting.

What they're overreacting to is women being called sluts regardless of whether said behavior is actually slutty.

If you wish to focus on these people who overreact, by all means do so, but take in to consideration the far larger segment of those who don't.

Most of the people your physical descriptions of obesity apply to are miserable because of it. You've repeatedly taken a whack at them to hit your target. You can bypass these people while still hitting your target.

[subego]

I understand yanking shif's picture, but could you put back the text I quoted?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I can't believe you seriously thought that I believe all women deserve to get raped.

Wow.

It wasn't too far off some of the other stuff you've posted in here.

[subego]

I thought the claim was sluts have their rape coming.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by subego 

I thought the claim was sluts have their rape coming.

Yeah, that's what I originally asked:

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Question: If a girl wears a short skirt and low-cut top to a party and gets raped, was she asking for it?

Someone that I think shif would consider "slutty," regardless of that individual's actual level of promiscuity.

And it somehow got turned into

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I can't believe you seriously thought that I believe all women deserve to get raped.

Wow.

[ebuddy]

Eesh... and here I was criticizing shif for getting personal with Laminar in another thread -- she's getting dog-piled in here.

Don't sweat it, shif. There's a lot of guys up in here that like to think they're speaking for women, they're not as interested in hearing from them.

[Stogieman]

Captain Kirk watches Miley Cyrus performance - YouTube

[subego]

Originally Posted by subego 

I understand yanking shif's picture, but could you put back the text I quoted?

You know, I think I had a serious memory fault and accused the mods of removing text which they didn't remove.

God. I'm totally sorry about that. I feel like a schmuck.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by subego 

I thought the claim was sluts have their rape coming.

Oh, sorry. Isn't that generally the insinuation when 1950s logic talks about rape?

Hey, in India, it seems to be enough for some people to be under thirty and have a boyfriend to be considered a slut and have it coming (that's changing, thankfully).

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Eesh... and here I was criticizing shif for getting personal with Laminar in another thread -- she's getting dog-piled in here.

Don't sweat it, shif. There's a lot of guys up in here that like to think they're speaking for women, they're not as interested in hearing from them.

There's something about calling a duck a duck that bothers people.

I've learned that as a woman, if I want to be thought of as more than a sex object in the eyes of men, behaving like someone who's more than a sex object goes a long way toward achieving that - which means not dressing, talking, and acting like my primary purpose is to, you know, have sex and lots of it.

The current brand of pop culture "feminism" wants women to be allowed to dress and act provocatively without...provoking.

[Spheric Harlot]

It's only "provoking" if there's intent.

And if there's intent, you can be sure it wouldn't work without your reaction.

If nobody bothered to pay attention, that sort of public appearance simply wouldn't happen, because it wouldn't generate publicity.

In other words, YOUR attitude is what provoked her behavior.

[shifuimam]

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to absolve Miley Cyrus of all responsibility for her behavior.

She was in full control of her own body and what she did with it onstage. The public's reaction may have been why she did what she did, but she's still responsible for rubbing a foam finger all over her crotch while her tongue was hanging down to her navel.

[Spheric Harlot]

Yeah, that's kind if the way it works, ain't it.

So you're handing her the responsibility for her action, which I thought was kind of obvious.

But you're absolving yourself of all responsibility, which means you missed the point my hyperbole was intended to convey: YOUR REACTION is the only reason this whole thing worked in the first place. Your personal responsibility is small, because it's part of a huge collective attention, but it exists and is indeed exactly why Miley did what she did.

[shifuimam]

No, I'm not.

When I read something like "you made her do it by your reaction", that appears to be "you should accept responsibility for what someone else did".

I refuse to absolve anyone on this planet of responsibility for their own actions, unless it's clear that they were forced against their will, under the influence of a substance or some kind of mental abuse, or otherwise clearly not in control of their actions.

What Miley did on stage was disgusting. That doesn't mean that the people who reacted negatively to her "show" aren't choosing to react negatively. It doesn't mean that she didn't take it as far as she did because she knew it would get a reaction. It does mean that the negative reaction to her "show" doesn't absolve her from being absolutely embarrassing on national television, acting in a sexually provocative manner that was inappropriate (and unplanned).

You're trying to make this into a black-and-white, it's-this-way-or-that-way situation. It's not.

The media was responsible for creating a circus around what happened. Miley Cyrus was responsible for RUBBING A FOAM FINGER ON HER VAGINA ON NATIONAL TELEVISION.

[The Final Dakar]

Question is what Miley Cyrus did any worse than content of music videos occasionally found on MTV?

[shifuimam]

No, not really. It's also not different in mechanics from the Janet Jackson/Justin Timberlake fiasco from the Super Bowl a few years ago.

The difference with that wardrobe malfunction, IMO, is that it was planned, and it wasn't the whole show. Robin Thicke's song was completely overshadowed by Miley's embarrassing display onstage. From what I've read, her behavior was unplanned, and he wasn't really all that happy with what she was doing to and around him while he was trying to perform.

That's the difference. If she hadn't behaved in a sexually provocative manner but had still behaved in a manner to draw attention to herself even though her time in the spotlight on the show's roster was through, people still would have gotten pissed at her. Maybe not as pissed - but still pissed.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

No, not really. It's also not different in mechanics from the Janet Jackson/Justin Timberlake fiasco from the Super Bowl a few years ago.

The difference with that wardrobe malfunction, IMO, is that it was planned, and it wasn't the whole show. Robin Thicke's song was completely overshadowed by Miley's embarrassing display onstage. From what I've read, her behavior was unplanned, and he wasn't really all that happy with what she was doing to and around him while he was trying to perform.

So, she's not a slut for being provocative, she's a slut for being provocative in an unplanned manner?

And we know Robin Thicke has a music video replete with awesome boobies, yes?

[Spheric Harlot]

"Unplanned" by whom? MTV? Miley? Thicke? Miley's management? Her record label? What bullshit.
Someone, somewhere along the way, thought this would be a Good Idea. And judging fom your reaction and the attention she garnered (I had absolutely NO ****ing clue she even existed), it was.

Also, the old trap of blaming the media has the same limitation: the media is just a mirror of what people are paying them for, whether it be in page hits, tv stats, or tabloid sales.

Your outrage and vocal disgust and attention is the ONLY reason this shit is reported in "the media".

And you, personally, are much more directly responsible for "the media" and its actions and focus than for Miley.

[shifuimam]

It's also entirely possible that Robin Thicke isn't lying, and Miley's young naive arrogance got in the way of common sense in the heat of moment, so to speak.

I wouldn't draw your conclusions so quickly.

I'm also just posting about this on a forum. You're taking it to an extreme to blame me, personally, for Miley's vagina-rub. I wasn't at the show. I didn't watch it on TV. I didn't comment about it on any news sites. I didn't even know it happened until people started making memes about it the next day and posting them on Imgur.

[Spheric Harlot]

You're perpetuating the interest. I am now aware of who this person is. Without your involvement in this thread, I might never have heard a note of her music.

I you really think this was spur-of-the-moment, then I have sixty years of rock'n'roll mythology to recycle and sell you all over again for the thirtieth time.

They're interviewed after the fact. What the hell do you THINK they're gonna say: "oh yeah, our management sat together and decided it would be really effective publicity to play off the Puritan mindset by doing something sexual in public"?
Jeez, girl, wake up. This is industry.

That the "wardrobe malfunction" was scripted was denied for the longest time - that's where the hell that term came from in the first place! (And boy, was that a publicity monster - it resulted in a phrase so preposterous that we're still using it gleefully today, rekindling the interest in those names a little bit every time...)

[shifuimam]

This thread made you listen to Miley Cyrus?

I'm so, so sorry for the loss of your brain cells.

I also didn't start this thread. I merely participated in it. Your blame is still quite misplaced.

[andi*pandi]

the wardrobe malfunction was planned?

cocaine, as they say, helluva drug.

[shifuimam]

I've heard rumors that Miley was on MDMA during her performance.

It would explain the excessive rubbing.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

It's only "provoking" if there's intent.

I don't agree with that.

It might not be your intent, but you could still be irresponsible and negligent.

Analogous to breaking the law - ignorance and lack of intent does not excuse you from the law applying to your actions.

-t

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

robin thicke's song was completely overshadowed by miley's embarrassing display onstage. From what i've read, her behavior was unplanned, and he wasn't really all that happy with what she was doing to and around him while he was trying to perform.

...

Originally Posted by the final dakar 

so, she's not a slut for being provocative, she's a slut for being provocative in an unplanned manner?

?

[shifuimam]

I think she's slutty just because of how she acts in general, not the particular performance at the VMAs. That performance didn't exactly make her seem LESS slutty, though.

Perhaps a better adjective to describe the performance might be "disgustingly embarrassing".

That's just my opinion. She's gross. Her performance also shouldn't be used by self-righteous social justice warriors on their crusades against "slut-shaming".

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I don't agree with that.

It might not be your intent, but you could still be irresponsible and negligent.

Analogous to breaking the law - ignorance and lack of intent does not excuse you from the law applying to your actions.

-t

Agreed 100%.

A lot of bad things that happen to people are, in part, their own responsibility. It doesn't make it justified that something bad happens to them, but everyone is so intent on labeling one person a victim and the other a perpetrator that we forget about personal responsibility.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

This thread made you listen to Miley Cyrus?

I'm so, so sorry for the loss of your brain cells.

I also didn't start this thread. I merely participated in it. Your blame is still quite misplaced.

As is your indignation over this whole thing.

As for listening to Miley: Meh. Bashing people for whatever music they manage to make a buck with is lame. I've heard a lot worse, I've played a lot worse, and I've been paid a lot worse. More power to them if they've figured out a way to work an income.

[shifuimam]

Protip: she didn't figure anything out. A bunch of middle aged guys at Disney did all the thinking for her on that front.

I realize you think you're taking the higher road by being all "oh no it's totes cool that the music industry churns out talentless assclowns, calls it music, and then throws their oversexualized butts to the curb as soon as they're not popular anymore! go them!" but people with actual musical taste and appreciation for talent are finding the whole phenomenon of manufactured "talent" to be pretty tiresome.

[shifuimam]

Incidentally, Jon Stewart being Jon Stewart:

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Protip: she didn't figure anything out. A bunch of middle aged guys at Disney did all the thinking for her on that front.

I realize you think you're taking the higher road by being all "oh no it's totes cool that the music industry churns out talentless assclowns, calls it music, and then throws their oversexualized butts to the curb as soon as they're not popular anymore! go them!" but people with actual musical taste and appreciation for talent are finding the whole phenomenon of manufactured "talent" to be pretty tiresome.

Honey, they found it tiresome FIFTY YEARS AGO. And probably a hundred years before that. How many oversexualized talentless Elvis wannabes do you think were stamped out of cookie cutters in the fifties and given a band and an album to sell? How many "beat" bands thrown together by record execs in the mid-sixties? Hundreds, probably more. Hell, people still listen to the Monkees, and that's (well-made) generic stuff sold by pretty kids who never played a note themselves!

The people with actual musical taste and appreciation for talent AND A ****ING CLUE realize that business is business, shut the **** up about crap that they're not going to change, or instead talk about cool stuff they've discovered, even as other elitists proceed to tell them that this or the other project they happen to like actually "sold out" after their second album, like that makes any difference to anybody except the artists involved...

Cry me a river.

Miley knew what she was doing. Who decided it isn't relevant, because whoever it was hit the mark. So cheap, so easy, so brilliantly effective. Unscripted, my ass.

[shifuimam]

I prefer Jon Stewart's rendition. Much, much sexier.

Mmmmmmmmm.

[shifuimam]

Can't...resist...

[Spheric Harlot]

Hah!

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by shifuimam

but people with actual musical taste and appreciation for talent are finding the whole phenomenon of manufactured "talent" to be pretty tiresome.

This is what is most interesting to me in this. How do we expand that population of people tired with this, or can we, and how do we make it clear that this is not terribly new, and start revealing what has been lost by going down this path?

[shifuimam]

BF pointed out to me that manufactured poptrash started much earlier, with the Monkees and the like. At least those guys had some musical talent, though.

I don't know enough about the 80s to know if any pop sensations of that era became as embarrssingly trainwrecky as Ms. Cyrus.

I will say that the argument that "it sells, so it must be good" is incredibly short-sighted. Walk into Wal-Mart and pick up any non-consumable product. It's all made like shit, in sweatshops in East Asia and South America. Just because millions of Americans wear Wal-Mart private label clothing doesn't make it good.

[subego]

I liked the Spice Girls.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

BF pointed out to me that manufactured poptrash started much earlier, with the Monkees and the like. At least those guys had some musical talent, though.

By what measure?

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by subego 

I liked the Spice Girls.

I love me some "Wannabe".

I feel though, as a female, I have a special exception with pop music. I like singing along with it. :O

Originally Posted by Laminar 

By what measure?

Not one that you'd approve of.

[subego]

Tork was good, and Jones had good pitch.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

BF pointed out to me that manufactured poptrash started much earlier, with the Monkees and the like. At least those guys had some musical talent, though.

So you really didn't read my post at all before responding to it?

The one where I mentioned that these things have been going on for sixty years? With Elvis wannabes and Beat bands by the dozens?

And I even mentioned explicitly that THE MONKEES DIDN'T PLAY A SINGLE NOTE THEMSELVES. They were cast as a completely artificial pop product for a TV series about a band. They didn't start contributing musically until well into their career.

[subego]

They did live (edit: missed you mentioned this).

Also add to Tork's and Jones's skill, Dolenz could sing lead vocals while drumming, which isn't exactly easy.

Nesmith played the hat well.

And his mom invented White-Out.

[subego]

Were The Monkees invented for TV or for the movie Head?