[DBursey]

From today's Globe and Mail

Why Some Haunts Haunt You

Air currents and electromagnetic fields blamed for strange aura of spooky places

By ANNE McILROY
SCIENCE REPORTER
---------------

Megan MacDonald calls it that "weird creepy-down-your-back feeling." She gets it every now and then while searching through the storage rooms along what was once death row.

Ms. MacDonald is the manager of the Ottawa Jail Youth Hostel, where the tiny cells and still functional gallows are an added attraction for budget travellers. It's a scary place all year round, not just on Halloween. She never goes near death row alone if she can help it. On several occasions she and a co-worker have been up there, and they've both felt a physical sensation of being spooked.

"We'll look at each other and the same time say, 'Let's go.' "

Maybe the ghost of Patrick Whelan was in the room. He's the young tailor convicted -- some say wrongly -- for the 1868 assassination of Thomas D'Arcy McGee, one of the Fathers of Confederation. His execution, watched by 5,000 spectators, was the last public hanging in Canada.

Or maybe Ms. MacDonald and her colleague were standing in a part of an old building where the temperature drops subtly, or that has unusual air currents, or small fluctuations in background electromagnetic fields.

That's what British researcher Richard Wiseman would suggest. Earlier this year, he published the results of his investigation into two of the most haunted spots in the United Kingdom: Hampton Court, the place near London that is said to be frequented by the screaming ghost of Catherine Howard, the fifth wife of Henry VIII, and Edinburgh Vaults, a creepy maze of small chambers and corridors beneath a Victorian bridge in Scotland.

He and his team did a detailed survey of the two sites, documenting air temperatures and currents, electromagnetic fields and lighting levels. Then they asked visitors to pinpoint exactly where they experienced anything strange. They found that people's scariest moments all occurred in exactly the same places, which were often where there were subtle physical changes.

These were also the spots that had a reputation for being haunted, although many of the visitors didn't know that before going in. Dr. Wiseman is now hoping to build his own scientific "haunted house," to learn more about creepy experiences. He doesn't believe that environmental factors alone account for the many people around the world who believe they have felt, heard or seen a ghost or had other frightening experiences. Our brains may be hard-wired to experience fear in certain situations, he says, like the small, dark room where the rope still hangs in the old Ottawa jail, or the cell where Patrick Whelan spent his final hours proclaiming his innocence.

Canadian researcher Michael Persinger believes that electromagnetic fields -- generated naturally -- are key to "hauntings."

Dr. Persinger has designed a helmet that delivers low levels of electromagnetic radiation over the skulls of volunteers. Over the years, he has perfected a "haunting" setting, a pattern administered over the right side of the brain that will cause at least half of the volunteers to sense the presence of somebody or something on the left side of their body.

Some volunteers feel as if they have been touched; others smell a musty odour, or sense a presence, almost always on their left side. They generally consider the experience unpleasant or frightening. Creative people, such as like musicians and writers, are more likely to respond in this way, Dr. Persinger says. Their response also depends on their experience. One woman, for example, said she saw her grandfather.

Electromagnetic fields are constantly shifting, Dr. Persinger says. He periodically gets calls from people who fear that their houses are haunted, or that they are losing their minds. He visits with equipment that measures changes in electromagnetic fields.

"Most haunted areas have long histories [of being] haunted. We have been in many, many houses; there is always an electromagnetic anomaly. But you have to leave your equipment overnight. It is transient. Usually the anomalies happen early in the morning."

He says the shift in electromagnetic fields is sometimes strong enough to cause people's hair to stand up on the back of their necks.

Ms. MacDonald says that's never happened to her, although other visitors to the jail hostel have reported that kind of experience. One visitor felt "something" brush through on the stairs leading to the gallows. Others have heard knocking. The door to one cell sometimes shuts and can't be opened. Periodically, a female guest -- a different one each time -- will report waking in the middle of the night and seeing a man quietly sitting on a chair in the all-women's section of the hostel.

Was it Patrick Whelan, or one of the other unfortunate souls who were hanged on the gallows? Or is the explanation environmental? A small shift in electromagnetic fields, or a sudden dip in temperature?

Dr. Persinger would argue that changes in electromagnetic fields are responsible for most ghostly experiences, which are common to cultures all over the world. But he says having an explanation doesn't make those experiences any more enjoyable.

"Just because you know what is going on doesn't make it any less scary."

So, are we convinced? Are spirits, shades and all things spooky merely some manifestation of mental and environmental stimuli working in concert with our susceptibility to suggestion?

What do we all think? I personally believe it all to be a manifestation of that most scary region of the brain where sensory perception ends and imagination begins. Trick or treat!

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by DBursey:
So, are we convinced? Are spirits, shades and all things spooky merely some manifestation of mental and environmental stimuli working in concert with our susceptibility to suggestion?

What do we all think? I personally believe it all to be a manifestation of that most scary region of the brain where sensory perception ends and imagination begins. Trick or treat!

Having seen a ghost (with independent confirmation), I can assure you that they're not "suggestion".

But I don't believe that they're dead people either. Reason: People have seen ghostly objects and ghosts usually wear clothes (objects). Objects were never alive in the first place, so can't possibly be dead (I wonder how that fact escapes the "experts" so easily).

I believe ghosties to be the results of time leakage. Any Trekker will have a rough idea what I'm on about here. Basically, I have a theory that time isn't actually linear but simultaneous - all time exists at the same time - ghosts are actually in their own time but somehow that timeframe has leaked over to ours.

Imagine iTunes playing an MP3 file. The whole file exists, but we're only hearing a specific portion of it. Same deal.

[benign]

Originally posted by Sherwin:

...I believe ghosties to be the results of time leakage. ...

Sounds like you should reverse your quantum
polarities, open the toilet seat and fire - trekkie.

[dav]

Originally posted by benign:
Sounds like you should reverse your quantum
polarities, open the toilet seat and fire - trekkie.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by benign:
Sounds like you should reverse your quantum
polarities, open the toilet seat and fire - trekkie.

Yeah. You prolly need a 50+ IQ to even contemplate the theory. Sorry and all that.

[RooneyX]

I'm just confused as to why ghosts have clothes. Do vestiments have souls too?

[deekay1]

Originally posted by benign:
Sounds like you should reverse your quantum
polarities, open the toilet seat and fire - trekkie.

*ROTFLMAO*

[benign]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Yeah. You prolly need a 50+ IQ to even contemplate the theory. Sorry and all that.

;)

How long is a piece of string Sherwin.

IQ has nothing to do with it.
Superstitious nonsense - everything.

- because you see something
that has blown your mind does
not mean it's ripe for a full
blown theory based on
something you've seen on TV.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by benign:
How long is a piece of string Sherwin.

IQ has nothing to do with it.
Superstitious nonsense - everything.

- because you see something
that has blown your mind does
not mean it's ripe for a full
blown theory based on
something you've seen on TV.

I rather think it's the result of years of research rather than the watching of a 45 minute TV show.

Let's put some more into the equation:

Deja-vu.
Fortune telling.
Theory of relativity.

Still not registering as a possibility? Ok. Then explain why ghosts wear clothes.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally posted by Sherwin:

Still not registering as a possibility? Ok. Then explain why ghosts wear clothes.

They want to be fashionable in the afterlife?

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
They want to be fashionable in the afterlife?

That explains the Victorian dresses and shining armor then. Nobody wants to wear GAP crap or lion skins in the afterlife.

[benign]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
That explains the Victorian dresses and shining armor then. Nobody wants to wear GAP crap or lion skins in the afterlife.

Ho-ho-ho green giant !

[d0ubled0wn]

This CNN report also mentions that infrasound sometimes can produce spine-tingling sensations that can be confused as a ghostly experience.

On the other hand, I've heard enough first-hand experiences from people I know that makes me think it's more than just supernatural bullsh!t.

[- - e r i k - -]

Time leakage? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Using pseudo-science to cover for your own superstitions:

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Time leakage? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Using pseudo-science to cover for your own superstitions:

Really... Come up with a better explanation for ghosts wearing clothes then.

Can't do it can you?

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Really... Come up with a better explanation for ghosts wearing clothes then.

Can't do it can you?

Ghost wearing clothes? Huh?

Lively imagination, hallucinations, illusions.

The brain can be fooled in so many ways. That's called being human.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Ghost wearing clothes? Huh?

Lively imagination, hallucinations, illusions.

The brain can be fooled in so many ways. That's called being human.

So two people can share the exact same hallucination at the exact same time?

Like I said, I wasn't the only person who saw it. And it was wearing clothes.

The fact that it was there and the fact it was wearing clothes are in no doubt (unless you think I'm BSing). So please explain how and why it was wearing clothes.
A process of elimination says the only possible explanation is that it wasn't actually dead (because clothes can't die).

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
So two people can share the exact same hallucination at the exact same time?

Yes. It's called mass hysteria.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Yes. It's called mass hysteria.

Mass hysteria actually causes people to see things rather than believe they've seen things? Mass hysteria can happen in crowds as small as two people?

Try again.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
So two people can share the exact same hallucination at the exact same time?

Like I said, I wasn't the only person who saw it. And it was wearing clothes.

The fact that it was there and the fact it was wearing clothes are in no doubt (unless you think I'm BSing). So please explain how and why it was wearing clothes.
A process of elimination says the only possible explanation is that it wasn't actually dead (because clothes can't die).

So, if this "time leakage" was really happening... *stifles laugh*... then um... what was this ghost doing at the time? Working? Sleeping? Talking to itself?

Or was it standing there staring at you, as all ghosts tend to do?

If I draw on a blackboard: "1 + 1 = ", most people would think "2".

Just like if two people are in identical circumstances, there is a chance that they will interpret the situation in the same way; light reflects of a wall, the temperature drops, some fog is lit up by the light, and you both see a ghost wearing a shirt that has the same pattern as the tiling on the wall that you never paid attention to.

You aren't really serious, are you?

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
So, if this "time leakage" was really happening... *stifles laugh*... then um... what was this ghost doing at the time? Working? Sleeping? Talking to itself?

Not being "leaked"?

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Or was it standing there staring at you, as all ghosts tend to do?

It wasn't even aware of our presence. Or, at least, it didn't appear to be aware of us.

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Just like if two people are in identical circumstances, there is a chance that they will interpret the situation in the same way; light reflects of a wall, the temperature drops, some fog is lit up by the light, and you both see a ghost wearing a shirt that has the same pattern as the tiling on the wall that you never paid attention to.

You aren't really serious, are you?

Yep. Deadly serious.

It was absolutely unmistakable as a ghost - no chance whatsoever of it being a "trick of the light" (or whatever). Why? 'Coz at first we both thought it was a real live human - that's how defined it was. Only problem was that as we got closer we realised that we could actually see through it. Its features were in no way related to the background either (which is how we knew it was translucent).

Really, I'm being serious - it was there. No temperature drops, no fog, no distracting backgrounds (I know the place like the back of my hand).

And it was wearing clothes - a longish frock coat similar to the ones Daniel Day Lewis took to wearing for a while (looked like it was from the English civil war era).

Seriously. I'm not kidding.

[Misanthrope]

Closest thing one could attribute to sherwin's case relates to alternate universes, and other stuff relating to quantum physics (some theoretical).

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Not being "leaked"?



It wasn't even aware of our presence. Or, at least, it didn't appear to be aware of us.




Yep. Deadly serious.

It was absolutely unmistakable as a ghost - no chance whatsoever of it being a "trick of the light" (or whatever). Why? 'Coz at first we both thought it was a real live human - that's how defined it was. Only problem was that as we got closer we realised that we could actually see through it. Its features were in no way related to the background either (which is how we knew it was translucent).

Really, I'm being serious - it was there. No temperature drops, no fog, no distracting backgrounds (I know the place like the back of my hand).

And it was wearing clothes - a longish frock coat similar to the ones Daniel Day Lewis took to wearing for a while (looked like it was from the English civil war era).

Seriously. I'm not kidding.

Well, you must forgive my skeptical attitude; though I'm sure you understand it.

I don't believe in ghosts; that said, I don't understand them. I'm not one to dismiss the possibility of something I don't understand.

I've never seen a ghost before, or anything remotely like it that I couldn't explain... but of course, that's just my lack of experience, nothing else.

Where did this happen?

[neigh-neigh-woo]

Excuse the alien baby, we are so proud of having it.

anyway...anyone had an Outer Body Experience ?

and flown around a bit yourself ?

[Tulkas]

Ghosts wear clothes because:

A: They don't exist. Your mind probably would not be horribly interested in seeing an naked old man. Clothes are just natural.

B: Time leaky thing.

C: A whole pile of unexplained and explained things. I'm sure many of the "feelings" are bogus. Alot of the sightings can be chalked up to other factors. I don't put out the idea that some could actually be real... but it seems doubtful they're dead people.

__________________

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by Sherwin:

Like I said, I wasn't the only person who saw it. And it was wearing clothes.

That wasn't a ghost, it was your mama.

BTW, I have experienced ghosts and OBEs but rather than have blind faith I'd lik a scientific answer. Maybe it's time leaky thing, maybe patterns of light repeat past events, maybe those repeated events still have consciousness, but one thing is for sure - they don't go some place called heaven or hell to get rewarded or punished.

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Still not registering as a possibility? Ok. Then explain why ghosts wear clothes.

To avoid an NC-17 rating at the movie theatre?

Authors and movie makers make up ghosts. Go ask them why they wrote them into their fictional stories with clothes?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Really... Come up with a better explanation for ghosts wearing clothes then.

Can't do it can you?

Bad things hang around places that bad things have happened.

Sometimes they mimic the bad event, or the people the bad things happen to.

[Powaqqatsi]

Does anyony know where the idea of ghosts being translucent come frome ?

[wataru]

Time leakage? Sorry, that's just nuts.

If ghosts exist, then how come there have been no official records of them beyond "man, this one time I swear I saw one!" posts on internet forums? It's all hogwash.

[deekay1]

*things that go bump in the night...*

[Sherwin]

Meh. I go out for the day and you guys give me loads of work to do when I get back... Here goes...

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Does anyony know where the idea of ghosts being translucent come frome ?

The fact that they're translucent, perhaps. I can't speak for other ghosts but the one we saw was definitely see-through.

----

There seems to be a lot of "you're nuts" going on, people telling me that ghosts don't exist and it was a figment of my imagination.

It must, then, be a figment of my imagination that the person I was with asked me immediately afterwards: "did you see that?" with a very white face (I didn't know it was possible for Italians to go that white, but she did).
We compared notes. We both thought it was human until we got closer to it. We both saw the clothes it was wearing. We could both see through it - in fact, the only thing which told us it was a ghost, aside from dress sense, was its translucency; the fact we could see the background moving behind it as both it and us changed our spatial relationship.

I'm not stupid enough to compare notes with leading questions either - there's absolutely no doubt that we both saw it.

It wasn't fog - fog doesn't have moving legs and enough detail to count the buttons on the frock coat.

It had kind of a light inside it... Very diffuse, like the whole body contained light, no centre. I say "kind of a light" because it wasn't really like a light. Very hard to explain. An inner glow throughout the whole body maybe.

The thing that struck me most was that it was exactly like you'd expect a ghost to be (Ghostbusters aside).

There is absolutely no doubt that it was a ghost.

----

As to where ghosts come from and the time leakage thing... Is that so difficult to comprehend as a possibility?

Let's look at fortune tellers. While most are charlatans happy to take you for a quick buck, there's no doubt that some tellings have proved real beyond the point of coincidence.
How does that work? For the fortune teller to know what is going to happen in the future, it must already have happened, or be happening right now.

The religious among you will note that God knows the future. It stands to reason that for any entity to know the future, it must have already happened or must be simultaneously happening with the present (and the past).

Let's look at deja-vu. Why does deja-vu happen? If all time is happening at the same time, memory takes on a different perspective: Our memories are simply the brain accessing other points in time which we perceive to be "in the past" but are actually "right now in a different phase".
Suppose the brain accidentally files the "now" segment in the "past" segment. You have deja-vu.

[wataru]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
There is absolutely no doubt that it was a ghost.

Except for the fact that all we have to go on is your testimony, which has nothing at all to back it up. Sorry, not convinced.

[nerd]

I believe there is a possibility in ghosts and a lot of other things. I think our minds are to limited, we can't comprehend a lot of things like the universe not ending, etc. but I still don't believe in ghosts. I believe there's always an explanation to things when they happen just as others have posted.

Sure I've got that feeling down my back. I got it about 10 times reading this thread. I've seen those shadows moving out of the corner of my eye lots of times. I hear things all the time, think someone is calling my name, etc. I know it's my mind doing it to me. It still gives me that creepy feeling sometimes.

The one thing I don't like about ghost stories, sightings, etc. is what someone else here said, you've never had proof. This is the year 2003, I'm sure we could have come up with a camera that could capture a ghost. We supposedly see it right? Then it's giving off (or is that reflecting) light which is in a wavelength that we as human can see. There are cameras that can see things we can't such as inferred. Our eyes are very limited in what they see, I can't imagine a camera not picking it up the same thing someone just saw. Look how fast information spreads this day in age thanks to the internet. We would have seen evidence by now.

The other thing I hate is why do all ghosts look evil? Because of the movies? Probably. I have a hard time thinking that a ghost can be so scary/ugly looking if there are so many other animals/things on this planet that don't look dead and decomposed. If a cat, dog, person, etc look nice why can't a ghost if they exist. Always in the night when you can't see good, tired so the subconscious starts bleeding over to the wrong part of the brain.

I just don't buy it. I'm open to the possibility but I've never been impressed with not having evidence.

Brad

[deekay1]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Does anyony know where the idea of ghosts being translucent come frome ?

hollywood movie clich�.

what we refer to as ghosts/spirits are memories. they never were ment to be anyhting else.

they are a socio cultural construct, fabricated by humans to "deal with" and "handle" "unfinished business". also to "call into memory" the "spirit" of somebody who has passed away, in order to "draw" on their presence (for answers, guidance etc.).

they don't have a physical "appearance". that's just superstitious nonsense and literalist drivel.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by deekay1:
hollywood movie clich�.

what we refer to as ghosts/spirits are memories. they never were ment to be anyhting else.

they are a socio cultural construct, fabricated by humans to "deal with" and "handle" "unfinished business". also to "call into memory" the "spirit" of somebody who has passed away, in order to "draw" on their presence (for answers, guidance etc.).

they don't have a physical "appearance". that's just superstitious nonsense and literalist drivel.

Yeah I thought the same thing at one time. Till I experienced one.

So have many many other people.

It had nothing to do with unfinished business.

[- - e r i k - -]

Zimph, you really should stick to materialistic topics around here. Every time I read one of your posts on religion or this crap my opinion of you lower. You can be entertaining enough at times, so I'd want to keep you off my growing ignore-list. Which I generally reserve for the rambling morons around here (click sig-links).

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by wataru:
Except for the fact that all we have to go on is your testimony, which has nothing at all to back it up. Sorry, not convinced.

Arhh... The wonders of the Internet age - if it doesn't have a URL it doesn't exist.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Arhh... The wonders of the Internet age - if it doesn't have a URL it doesn't exist.

No you nitwit. You don't have anything to show for but a shaky anecdotal story. Try again.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Zimph, you really should stick to materialistic topics around here. Every time I read one of your posts on religion or this crap my opinion of you lower. You can be entertaining enough at times, so I'd want to keep you off my growing ignore-list. Which I generally reserve for the rambling morons around here (click sig-links).

erik how you feel about me is of no concern to me.

Put me on your ignore list.

It wont effect me a bit.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
No you nitwit. You don't have anything to show for but a shaky anecdotal story. Try again.

Usually when posts start with personal attacks, they usually have no merit themselves.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
No you nitwit. You don't have anything to show for but a shaky anecdotal story. Try again.

Well Erik, there's nothing else. I can't prove it. There's only two people who know for sure 100% that it happened. Even if I got her to post here with a corroboration, it still wouldn't be proof.

Even if I actually owned a camera for the purposes of proof, do you think I'd carry it around 'coz I'm expecting to see a ghost?
But then if there was photographic proof, you'd be asking why I was carrying a camera at the time and accuse me of a set-up.

So I can't win. Doesn't make my claim less real or true, mind - I saw what I saw. You can believe me or not believe me - doesn't make it any less true or real, doesn't affect that fact that it happened in any way at all.

[neigh-neigh-woo]

So I can't win. Doesn't make my claim less real or true, mind - I saw what I saw. You can believe me or not believe me - doesn't make it any less true or real, doesn't affect that fact that it happened in any way at all.

How close where you to it?
Where exactly where you ?
Did you wait until it disapeared ?
Did you touch it to see if it was real?
How close where you to what you saw ?
What did it look like/wear etc ?
What mind altering substances had you been taking?
Whats the name of this italian girl , she sounds alright ?
Have you got her phone number for me ?

And any other background information that might convince anyone that what you saw was 'supernatural'
cheers

[Zimphire]

My Dad's brother had problems with "hauntings" at his house.

Doors would open and slam shut. So would the windows. They would see shadows along the walls. It had cold spots, that was not so much physically cold as spiritually.

The smell was awful in these places.

They put up with it for awhile. Until one morning when he woke up with something on top of him holding him down growling at his face.

He had claw marks on his chest from it.

Pretty nasty stuff.

[neigh-neigh-woo]

They put up with it for awhile. Until one morning when he woke up with something on top of him holding him down growling at his face.

Hey, now thats interesting...

What kind of growling ? human ? Its not sleep paralysis then ? , these marks where not from his own nails ? Did he ever see anything ?
Did he tell he people the people he sold the house to this had happened ?


I have heard of waking up, but its still a dream that you have woken up, or was he really awake ?

Did you ever see anything like that around his place?

Until i see something myself I am undecided.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by neigh-neigh-woo:
How close where you to it?

About six feet? Missus was closer.

Originally posted by neigh-neigh-woo:
Where exactly where you ?

In a car driving past it. Nearly ran the thing over.

Dusk, long, wide, rural A-road with no pavement (sidewalk to you colonial types). I see someone walking on the road ahead, think to myself "what a dick, should be on the other side of the road" (when there's no pavement, always walk into the traffic, i.e. on the right-hand side of the road here). So I'm positioning the car to avoid hitting him (as you do). When we got to about 30/40 feet away from it I realised I could see through it. This crapped me up a bit (well, OK, a lot!), so I jerked the wheel to take a wider angle around it (heat of the moment "****!" type thing).

Car coming the other way also went a bit wobbly under braking (like he'd also seen it - road was too wide for it to have been a response to me) and forced me closer to it. Drove past the ghost, almost hitting it. As we levelled with it, every hair on the back of my neck stood on end.

Missus immediately starts screaming "why did you swerve then? Why did you swerve then? Did you see that? DID YOU SEE THAT?"

I pulled over, we looked back. It's still there, walking up the road towards us, completely oblivious to us. I ask the missus what she's seeing... She's like "well, I can see through that bloke... ...is that a ghost?". I tell her I can see it too, she's not hallucinating.

We looked back at it until it got about 6 feet away from our back end then thought "**** this" and drove away - we'd seen enough (I'd have stayed but she's going mental at this point).

Safe to say we got a real good look at it. No sleep that night - we were both so wired it was unreal.

Originally posted by neigh-neigh-woo:
Did you wait until it disapeared ?

Nope. It showed no signs of disappearing. We waited until we got scared! It wasn't actually scary in the slightest (more like shocking, 'coz it wasn't exactly an every-day experience), but we weren't going to hang around any longer.

Originally posted by neigh-neigh-woo:
Did you touch it to see if it was real?

Nope. It was weird enough to be just there looking at it.

Originally posted by neigh-neigh-woo:
How close where you to what you saw ?

It was about a foot off the nearside wing mirror when we passed it.

Originally posted by neigh-neigh-woo:
What did it look like/wear etc ?

About 5'8" to 5'10", long frock coat, centre-parted just-past-collar straight hair (pretty lank), some kind of boot or long sock type thing over tightish trousers.
You know the long haired guy in the TV Series "Sharpe"? Sorta looked like that - a cross between Baldrick and Daniel Day Lewis in the Crucible.

Originally posted by neigh-neigh-woo:
And any other background information that might convince anyone that what you saw was 'supernatural'

The only reason we knew it was supernatural is that we could see through it and its colouring was kinda "greyed-out" (but almost luminous). Otherwise it could have been a guy in fancy dress. Like I said, until we got closer to it we actually thought it was a real person.

[deekay1]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
...They put up with it for awhile. Until one morning when he woke up with something on top of him holding him down growling at his face.

LOOOL

[neigh-neigh-woo]

The only reason we knew it was supernatural is that we could see through it and its colouring was kinda "greyed-out" (but almost luminous). Otherwise it could have been a guy in fancy dress. Like I said, until we got closer to it we actually thought it was a real person.

If it wasnt looking at me then I would have stuck around aswell, i get you wish you had in a way.
So , you are convinced.
I am one of these people that needs to see it myself , although I probably wouldnt want to, especially waking up to be pinned down by something, other than a naked woman

A friend of mine saw a white old guy figure floating outside his window all white, grey beard, half a body and 30 feet in the air, trying to get into the window. I am not sure of much more details but it relates to outer body experiences...sleep paralysis and floating out of your body, seeing the world slightly different, roofs of houses etc slight changes - different dimension ?

[benign]

[neigh-neigh-woo]

the cat yeah that is it, thats him,