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Doofy · 01:03 PM

...say the word "solder" properly?

Sol-der. Not sar-der.

Why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IzDbNFDdP4

Cold Warrior · Mar 21, 2009, 12:57 PM

I've never heard it with an r in there, but 'sodder' (ˈsädər) is an acceptable pronunciation.

Laminar · Mar 21, 2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

but 'sodder' (ˈsädər) is an acceptable pronunciation.

That's how I say it.

Doofy · Mar 21, 2009, 01:11 PM

How did this come about? I can understand the dropping the "h" off "herbs" thing, but how does "solder" turn into "sodder"? Where did the "L" go? I've tried (in my best colonial accent) to drop the L but it still doesn't turn into "sodder".

0157988944 · Mar 21, 2009, 01:21 PM

"solder" would make a hell-ton more sense, but for some reason it's "sodder" just like "colonel" is "kernel."

Eug · Mar 21, 2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

I've never heard it with an r in there, but 'sodder' (ˈsädər) is an acceptable pronunciation.

Originally Posted by Laminar

That's how I say it.

That's how most Canadians say it too.

It's debatable if the 'l' sound belongs there. OS X's Dictionary states that its root is related to the French word "soudure" which has no 'l', but it's ultimately derived from the Latin root "solidare" which does have an 'l'.

Originally Posted by Doofy

How did this come about? I can understand the dropping the "h" off "herbs" thing, but how does "solder" turn into "sodder"? Where did the "L" go? I've tried (in my best colonial accent) to drop the L but it still doesn't turn into "sodder".

Interestingly, Wikipedia claims it comes from the original middle English word "soudur".

Chongo · Mar 21, 2009, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

How did this come about? I can understand the dropping the "h" off "herbs" thing, but how does "solder" turn into "sodder"? Where did the "L" go? I've tried (in my best colonial accent) to drop the L but it still doesn't turn into "sodder".

That's like asking why is Favre pronounced Farve, or why do Canadians say aboot for about?

Eug · Mar 21, 2009, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

why do Canadians say aboot for about?

Actually they don't, or at least most don't. The characteristic Canadian "about" is more in-between. It's not as nasal as the American "aaooowt", but it usually doesn't sound like boot IMO.

Tiresias · Mar 21, 2009, 03:35 PM

How do ya'll pronounce the word "iron" ?

subego · Mar 21, 2009, 03:38 PM

For whatever reason, I pronounce the "l" (though not very emphatically) when I use it as a verb, and then don't when I use it as a noun.

But this question is coming from the island where they drop the "r" at the ends of words, and then add an "r" to words which end in "a"?

Doofy · Mar 21, 2009, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by subego

But this question is coming from the island where they drop the "r" at the ends of words, and then add an "r" to words which end in "a"?

Examples please - I can't think of any.

(By the way, this thread ain't intended to be just about American pronunciation - if there's something us old worlde neanderthals can't say properly, have at it.

)

Wiskedjak · Mar 21, 2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

That's how most Canadians say it too.

Really? Most everyone I know says "sole-jer"

Wiskedjak · 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by toothpick_charlie

How do ya'll pronounce the word "iron" ?

i-run

Wiskedjak · Mar 21, 2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

That's like asking why is Favre pronounced Farve, or why do Canadians say aboot for about?

There are probably about 6 really distinct accents in Canada.

- Western Canada/southern Ontario: I notice little-or-no difference between the accents of western Canada and southern Ontario and the north-western States.
- The Bob-and-Doug-Mackenzie accent: I've actually heard more people from northern Michigan with this accent than Canadians
- French Canadian
- Maritimes
- Newfoundland
- Cape Breton Island

For the record, I say "a-bowt".

subego · Mar 21, 2009, 05:18 PM

It happens more with the dropped "r", as there are more words that end in it.

"Water" becomes "watah".
"Car" becomes "cah".
To go in the other direction, a type of "cah" is the "Toyoter Corroler".

The most delightful example, and one that I've gotten genuine Brits to do for me is "spa" and "spar".

"How do you pronounce that word for the place where you get a mud bath?"

"Spar."

"How do you pronounce that word for the thing you hang a sail from?"

"Mast."*

"No. The other word."

"Spa."

*Which comes out more like "mossed".

Doofy · Mar 21, 2009, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by subego

It happens more with the dropped "r", as there are more words that end in it.

"Water" becomes "watah".
"Car" becomes "cah".
To go in the other direction, a type of "cah" is the "Toyoter Corroler".

I'm guessing you haven't engaged in much conversation with Brits from outside the M25?

What you've just described is a very London thing. Mind you, our accents tend to change in very short distances (mine's like a Robbie Williams crossed with James Bond, Ozzy's is 25 miles south of here, the Monobrow Brothers are 25 miles north).

mattyb · Mar 21, 2009, 06:24 PM

English is a language that has been bastardized beyond belief, just look at the size of the UK and the accents in such a small space. I can remember getting the CDs from Microsoft for their products when I worked in a certain company. IIRC there are about 10 different types of English.

Changing pronunciation doesn't bother me that much, its spelling that I don't get. Why would people who share the same language change centre to center, colour to color etc etc?

I always thought that it was funny the difference between 'p i s s e d' and 'p i s s e d o f f' for the Yanks. 'F a g' was another one.

Eug · Mar 21, 2009, 06:30 PM

i-urn

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Really? Most everyone I know says "sole-jer"

Really? Weird. I've known a few Calgarians, and they don't pronounce it soldier.

Chongo · Mar 21, 2009, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by mattyb

English is a language that has been bastardized beyond belief, just look at the size of the UK and the accents in such a small space. I can remember getting the CDs from Microsoft for their products when I worked in a certain company. IIRC there are about 10 different types of English.

Changing pronunciation doesn't bother me that much, its spelling that I don't get. Why would people who share the same language change centre to center, colour to color etc etc?

I always thought that it was funny the difference between 'p i s s e d' and 'p i s s e d o f f' for the Yanks. 'F a g' was another one.

Like this?

RAILhead · Mar 21, 2009, 06:48 PM

I'm dadgum American, and I am with Doof -- it's frakking soLder, as in saul-dur.

One of my many pet peeves...

moonmonkey · Mar 21, 2009, 07:22 PM

I want to know why they can't make a recipe without adding a can of Campbell's soup to it.
Makes me want to cry:
Roast Beef

3-4 lb roast
1 can cream of mushroom soup
3 tb steak sauce (optional)
1 can water
1 package dried Lipton onion soup mix

Place roast in crock pot. Add steak sauce to top and spread to coat evenly. Add cream of mushroom soup on top spreading to coat. Sprinkle onion soup on top and add water. Cook on low for about 8-10 hours or until meat separates easily. Serves 4.

richwig83 · Mar 21, 2009, 07:36 PM

Cwofee.... say no more!!

0157988944 · Mar 21, 2009, 07:38 PM

Do you know someone who says "Cwofee"? I've heard "Caw-fee" but never that.. wow.

Eug · Mar 21, 2009, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Do you know someone who says "Cwofee"? I've heard "Caw-fee" but never that.. wow.

subego · Mar 21, 2009, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'm guessing you haven't engaged in much conversation with Brits from outside the M25?

What you've just described is a very London thing. Mind you, our accents tend to change in very short distances (mine's like a Robbie Williams crossed with James Bond, Ozzy's is 25 miles south of here, the Monobrow Brothers are 25 miles north).

Two were from Suffolk. They were sisters. One had what I later realized was an affected "aristocratic" accent, while the other had (to my untrained ear) a more Ozzy like accent, though I realize Suffolk is far away from where you're talking about.

subego · Mar 21, 2009, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Do you know someone who says "Cwofee"? I've heard "Caw-fee" but never that.. wow.

They're both more or less the same New York/New Jersey accent. It's a question of the difference between people who's speech gets constricted in their throat (the former) versus people who's speech is more nasal (the latter).

hyteckit · Mar 21, 2009, 10:31 PM

Solder is pronounce 'sar-der'. Like 'saw-duh'

Soldier is pronounce 's-old-jer'

We don't want to confuse the two.

Mar 21, 2009, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

That's like asking why is Favre pronounced Farve, or why do Canadians say aboot for about?

We don't. We pronounce it more like "a boat".

Scottish people say "a boot".

Considering the number of people that have seen Groundskeeper Willie is on the Simpsons, you'd think they'd clue into that.

LegendaryPinkOx · Mar 21, 2009, 10:42 PM

Back when I worked at the deli, I had a customer who sounded exactly like Eric Idle, and when I told him so, he said that everyone in South London talked like that. I find that hard to believe.

mattyb · Mar 22, 2009, 05:48 AM

LegendaryPinkOx, most people in South London don't speak English. And no, I'm not joking.

moonmonkey · Mar 22, 2009, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by mattyb

LegendaryPinkOx, most people in South London don't speak English. And no, I'm not joking.

That's obviously not true.

Tiresias · Mar 22, 2009, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

i-urn

I sayˈʌɪən, but R is almost a silent letter where I am from.

Oisín · Mar 22, 2009, 06:54 AM

This thread is very educative for me. I had no idea ‘solder’ was often pronounced [sɔ:də/ɚ]; I’ve always pronounced it [səʊldə/soʊɫdɚ].

How do ya'll pronounce the word "iron" ?

Thinking about it, I’d say (for American English) I pronounce it ['a(ɪ)ɹən] when using it as a noun; but ['aɪɚn] when using it as a verb. In British English, I’d always pronounce it ['aɪən].

Doofy · Mar 22, 2009, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

That's obviously not true.

Have a read of this.

mattyb · Mar 22, 2009, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

That's obviously not true.

I like these figures as well.

Do remember that 'South of the River' is seen as a 'lesser London'. Greenwich is probably the exception.

moonmonkey · Mar 22, 2009, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Have a read of this.

That is just one post office, it hardly equates to "most people".

Originally Posted by mattyb

I like these figures as well.

That's crime figures not language statistics.

Doofy · Mar 22, 2009, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

That is just one post office, it hardly equates to "most people".

One post office outside London. If that's happening outside London, you can be pretty sure that the problem is much worse in London.

Here's a page for a London council.
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index.htm
Check the languages on the right. Note how English isn't the top one.

subego · Mar 22, 2009, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Oisín

[sɔ:də/ɚ]
[səʊldə/soʊɫdɚ]
['a(ɪ)ɹən]
['aɪɚn]
['aɪən]

As an American, I wish I knew how to pronounce the pronunciation letters.

****. I don't even know what they're called.

Face Ache · Mar 22, 2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

...say the word "solder" properly?

Sol-der. Not sar-der.

Yeah I noticed on Mythbusters that they "sodder" things.

Americans also pronounce buttery as buggery, so be careful following US recipes.

Oisín · Mar 22, 2009, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by subego

As an American, I wish I knew how to pronounce the pronunciation letters.

****. I don't even know what they're called.

They’re called phonetic transcriptions in IPA (International Phonetics Alphabet). ‘Pronunciation letters’ is easier.

Pseudo-phonetic equivalents: ‘sodder’, ‘soul-der’, ‘eye-run’, ‘eye-urn’, ‘eye-un’.

moonmonkey · Mar 22, 2009, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

One post office outside London. If that's happening outside London, you can be pretty sure that the problem is much worse in London.

Here's a page for a London council.
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index.htm
Check the languages on the right. Note how English isn't the top one.

But the default language of the site is already English so who would ever need to click English if it was already in English. Crazy liberal dangly earring council policies annoy me too, but I still don't see how this could possibly indicate that >50% of people in South London can't speak English.

Doofy · Mar 22, 2009, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

But the default language of the site is already English so who would ever need to click English if it was already in English. Crazy liberal dangly earring council policies annoy me too, but I still don't see how this could possibly indicate that >50% of people in South London can't speak English.

Well, maybe Matty was engaging in a bit of hyperbole. But it ain't far from the truth.

Laminar · Mar 22, 2009, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by toothpick_charlie

How do ya'll pronounce the word "iron" ?

eye - urn

hyteckit · Mar 22, 2009, 08:28 PM

soldering iron: saw-duh-ring eye-urn

Chongo · Mar 22, 2009, 08:54 PM

I was listening to Larry King back when he was radio only. He was interviewing the then Miss New Zealand. She told a story about an A's player that was late for his flight and asked the clerks at the San Diego Air New Zealand desk for the plane to Oakland, and that were he found himself.

davidflas · Mar 22, 2009, 09:25 PM

As an American from the North Eastern portion of the country, I wonder the following: Why is the word baptist so often pronounced "babdist"? Seems to happen most frequently when spoken by someone with a southern or mid-western accent...

olePigeon · Mar 22, 2009, 09:35 PM

Some people say Warshington. They stick Rs in everything.

olePigeon · Mar 22, 2009, 09:42 PM

"You say 'erbs, we say herbs... because there's a f***ing 'h' in it."

Atheist · Mar 22, 2009, 10:05 PM

I love trying to explain the "ough" ending to non-native english speakers:

though = tho
trough = trawf
tough = tuff
through = thru

English is such a messed up language.

Adding an R onto the end of words that end in a vowel drives me absolutely nuts.

ghporter · Mar 22, 2009, 10:24 PM

I have always pronounced it "sod-er." I've been an electronics technician (and a damn good solderer) for very nearly 30 years, and the word "solder" is just one of those words that isn't spelled the way it's pronounced (around here, anyway). I've heard enough variation in the voicing of the initial vowel sound that it's almost like many people try to hint at the 'l' when they say it, but I don't think I've ever gotten anywhere near that with my own pronunciations.

I work with a woman who is from Ontario. Now I grew up in the Detroit area and watched CBC as much as NBC and ABC, and I had never really noticed a distinct "Ontario" accent until these last couple of months. This lady has some distinct vowel pronunciations that sort of stand out; one is the "ou" part of "about" and similar words. There are a few interesting variations in her phrasing, too, but that sort of thing is close enough to the regionalisms I've come to embrace that it's no big deal.

On the other hand, for a short time I worked with a Canadian Forces captain at Randolph AFB (exchange officer program). He was from Montreal, and his accent AND his phrasing stood out. I wonder how real Noofies sound nowadays...