[pooka]

I'm beginning to think a Toshiba exec molested you as a child. That or one ran off with your wife. Your age is hard to determine from your posts.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Aside from blowing undisclosed amounts of cash on movie execs Toshiba is desperately flogging their crap at low cost now. Combined HD-DVD playback devices still won't match combined Blu-ray devices being shipped as standalones, in PCs (ratio is 7:2) and with consoles

The low cost Chinese player path for HD DVD was made public in 2005... before either format even launched.

BTW, I find it interesting that after it was made clear that HD DVD was truly going this route, Blu-ray announced that it had gotten Funai on board to make cheap Blu-ray players. It would seem that the BDA is "desparately flogging their crap" at low cost now too... or at least trying to get there, because they know people won't bite with their high-priced standalones, and the PS3 hasn't been living up to the hype.

[Super Mario]

It would seem that the BDA is "desparately flogging their crap" at low cost now too...

Eug you be running circles around your own fud now. Toshiba created HD-DVD and is selling own brand cheapo players. Sony is not selling known down price Blu-ray players.

PS3 hasn't been living up to the hype.

60% increase in PS3 sales last month in the US. Believe it when I say I'm going to bump every bizarre post you made when the post-Xmas sales figures come out and you'll be making a million and one excuses why HD-DVD still needs more time. It won't catch up in retail sales when it is already down 3 to 1 from 2 to 1 a month ago.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Eug you be running circles around your own fud now. Toshiba created HD-DVD and is selling own brand cheapo players. Sony is not selling known down price Blu-ray players.

Indeed, cuz they can't. That's why they got Funai on board after all.

60% increase in PS3 sales last month in the US. Believe it when I say I'm going to bump every bizarre post you made when the post-Xmas sales figures come out and you'll be making a million and one excuses why HD-DVD still needs more time. It won't catch up in retail sales when it is already down 3 to 1 from 2 to 1 a month ago.

The PS3 is still in last place by a large margin. And why did the PS3 sales increase? Price.

Toshiba understood the significance of price in 2005. Sony is starting to understand this... in 2007.

[Super Mario]

PS3 sales are up 135%

Console Wars: PS3 Sales Surge 135% Since Price Drop, Sony Seen Laughing on Way to Bank - Gizmodo

Crediting a strategic price cut and a strong E3 showing, Sony is gloating over its latest figures: PS3 sales are up 135% since the July 9th announcement of the $499 price tag. With Xbox 360 sales dropping, new firmware updates enhancing the basic functionality of the system, Blu-ray pushing hard against HD-DVD and a growing lineup of original titles including the exclusive Metal Gear Solid 4, the PS3 seems determined to become a serious console competitor before the year is over.

More
Sony: PS3 Price Drop Boosts Sales 135% : Next Generation - Interactive Entertainment Today, Video Game and Industry News
TG Daily - Lower price sparks PS3 sales to jump 135%
PS3 Sales Increase 135% Since $499 Price Debut - PlayStation 3 News
PlayStation 3 sales increase by more than 135% - Gaming Age
PS3's two-week sales figures surge 135 percent - PlayStation 3 News at GameSpot
Full Speed Ahead! PS3 Sales Increase By More Than 135% - Playstation 3 News

[Eug]

^^^ Thanks for proving my point. Price is key.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The PS3 is still in last place by a large margin. And why did the PS3 sales increase? Price.

Doesn't matter what place it is in console wise. It doesn't matter one bit (example, PS2 still outsells X Box, 360 and PS3). We're talking about machines to play Blu-ray discs and that is the topic of this thread. Wanna run more circles around your fud and cry like a baby some more?

^^^ Thanks for proving my point. Price is key

Can be. Would you rather pay for a HD-DVD stand alone that plays a losing format or buy a console that plays next gen games and the winning format?

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Toshiba understood the significance of price in 2005.

I had to come back to this. Toshiba saw the significance of price early on and have the losing format. It's a bizarre comedy-horror show you can't see there's something wrong with HD-DVD just from that example.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Doesn't matter what place it is in console wise. It doesn't matter one bit (example, PS2 still outsells X Box, 360 and PS3). We're talking about machines to play Blu-ray discs and that is the topic of this thread. Wanna run more circles around your fud and cry like a baby some more?

Yeah, the PS2 is an impressive piece of hardware with a great software catalogue, for the price. The PS3... well... isn't. Its price is getting better, but it seems that its chance to win the Blu-ray war is over. Going forward, the war is about standalones, cuz that's what non-gamers want in their living rooms. If you don't believe me, try and compare the PS2 and Xbox numbers combined to standalone DVD player sales.

Can be. Would you rather pay for a HD-DVD stand alone that plays a losing format or buy a console that plays next gen games and the winning format?

The format battle isn't about you and me, FYI. It's about the general public, and it's the same general public who aren't gaga over gaming machines. Sony advertised the PS2 as the ultimate media centre way back when. We all know what happened there. Sony is pushing the PS3 now as the ultimate media centre too. I suspect the same thing will happen. Non gamers (who are the majority of movie watchers) will just say "meh", gimme a simple but functional standalone... for a lot less money.

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

I had to come back to this. Toshiba saw the significance of price early on and have the losing format. It's a bizarre comedy-horror show you can't see there's something wrong with HD-DVD just from that example.

I think this is the exact arrogant attitude that the BDA had in 2005, and why they're now suffering for it. I still find it rather telling that Panasonic threw a fit when LG decided to make a hybrid player. LG saw the writing on the wall. Without the lock on consumer electronics companies that the BDA tried to get, it can't fleece us on hardware pricing. It seems Panasonic is unwilling to compete on price.

Meanwhile studios like Paramount and Dreamworks have realized this that the format with the superior mature spec (HD DVD) actually has compliant hardware, and good standalone sales.

OTOH, BD is still stuck at the neutered Profile 1.0 with expensive hardware, with no 1.1 player in sight for the rest of 2007... and still expensive.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Meanwhile studios like Paramount and Dreamworks have realized this that the format with the superior mature spec (HD DVD) actually has compliant hardware, and good standalone sales.

OTOH, BD is still stuck at the neutered Profile 1.0 with expensive hardware, with no 1.1 player in sight for the rest of 2007... and still expensive.

I can agree with that, to a point, but the honest question I want to know is, why aren't they selling more content with these big advantages?

[Dakarʒ]

I have a crazy theory about that - that people willing to spend more money on a BD player are also more willing to throw more money into buying BR discs.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Eug 

^^^ Thanks for proving my point. Price is key.

If PRICE is the key, then why is Blu-Ray, more expensive across the board, winning?

[sek929]

I think it boils down to the name.

Blu-ray sounds a hell of a lot cooler than HD DVD....to many damned Ds.

[*TL]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Toshiba understood the significance of price in 2005. Sony is starting to understand this... in 2007.

The lowest-priced HD player this time last year, IIRC, was about $500, and for a player that couldn't even do 1080p to boot. Prices on BD players have been dropping steadily. There's no reason to believe that BD won't be able to compete on price by Q4. (Compete, not beat, which is all they need. Anyone dropping $1200-2000 on an HDTV and buying into a new format isn't price-sensitive enough where $100-200 matters.)

How definitive can price be when Toshiba's been dropping prices and lowering forecasts for how many players it thinks it will sell this year?

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I have a crazy theory about that - that people willing to spend more money on a BD player are also more willing to throw more money into buying BR discs.

But... but... but... the "attach rate" for HD discs is so much higher!

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I think this is the exact arrogant attitude that the BDA had in 2005, and why they're now suffering for it.

What planet are you from?!?!?!

I asked you why is it that Toshiba's "sell cheap since 2005" idea/strategy hasn't paid off in more HD-DVD sales and your answer is that Blu-ray is now suffering because they're winning the next gen war.

BD is still stuck at the neutered Profile 1.0 with expensive hardware

Neutered my butt. Customers want to watch movies not click on silly menus that launch a web browser. Interactive features were the least attractive and least used feature of DVDs. I sincerely hope they go away. All we need is movie, extra scenes, deleted scenes, interviews, language tracks. Not Java games and wallpaper downloads.

Too funny yo. Now you're going to come back with your but but but but but... for another 56 pages.

[Graviton]

The mouth breathing in this thread is deafening.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Only because you made it clear over the last year that you lurve your Nintendos so much that it makes you feel insecure to see Sony successful at anything, as if that somehow ruins your enjoyment of DS and Wii games. You equate Blu-ray success with PS3 success. Your whole reason to attack Blu-ray is to attack a console. Kinda fanboyish and dumb. Makes you look even more foolish when sales of Blu-ray movies are racing ahead of the format you do support.

Huh? What does this have to do with me supporting online distribution?

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

If you have proof of play that would be nice to see. Why would it be bigger on the X Box when it was the Playstation that made the franchise as big as it is? As for Unreal 3, the makers said it was going to be bigger on the PS3.

Rockstar has said it would be bigger on the XBox. Go whine to them.

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Hope you enjoy your purchase of the external HD-DVD for the X Box 360 that you say to have. It's so nice to have external disc drives dangling from a console.

You don't think I have an XBox?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah, the PS2 is an impressive piece of hardware with a great software catalogue, for the price. The PS3... well... isn't. Its price is getting better, but it seems that its chance to win the Blu-ray war is over. Going forward, the war is about standalones, cuz that's what non-gamers want in their living rooms. If you don't believe me, try and compare the PS2 and Xbox numbers combined to standalone DVD player sales.

The format battle isn't about you and me, FYI. It's about the general public, and it's the same general public who aren't gaga over gaming machines. Sony advertised the PS2 as the ultimate media centre way back when. We all know what happened there. Sony is pushing the PS3 now as the ultimate media centre too. I suspect the same thing will happen. Non gamers (who are the majority of movie watchers) will just say "meh", gimme a simple but functional standalone... for a lot less money.

This is exactly right. The standalones will begin to outsell the consoles. And who sells more standalones? HD-DVD.

We heard this entire idea about everyone buying a Playstation to play movies back with the PS2, and it was just a stupid idea. People want a cheap system that comes with a remote to play DVD's.

The fact of the matter is that the ONLY good Bluray player the player camp has is the PS3. How many people in this thread own a standalone Bluray player? Why do you think no one does? Because the rest suck. The problem is that the general market isn't going to pay $500 or $600 for a PS3, and they're not going to go for a sub-par cheap Bluray player when they can get a nicer HD-DVD player.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by starman 

If PRICE is the key, then why is Blu-Ray, more expensive across the board, winning?

I think you already know the answer. The PS3 has has sold a fair number of players. Not a huge amount by console standards, but a large amount by early adopter standalone standards.

However, as we all know (or at least as most of us know), format adoption depends on the standalone market to be successful.

The plan from the BDA was to have a PS3 blitz in high enough numbers so that HD DVD wouldn't have a chance. The problem though is that the PS3 ran into several problems, not the least of which were delays and price. Hence, the impact of the PS3 was insufficient to kill off HD DVD. All it has managed to do, despite the comparatively high numbers of units out there, is maintain a 2:1 stalemate advantage with HD DVD.

2007 and 2008 are seeing rises in the standalone market... because of price and feature set... with HD DVD standalone sales vastly outstripping Blu-ray standalone sales. And now HD DVD has announced a $199.99 or less HD DVD player for the masses, which just happens to be from a company that sells a lot product to Wal-Mart. Do you see where I'm going?

Because of this imminent threat, the BDA changed course this year and got Funai on board, to make cheap BD players. However, we have no idea yet as to the price, and it's quite likely to be priced higher, because the technology is inherently more expensive to produce.

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Neutered my butt. Customers want to watch movies not click on silly menus that launch a web browser. Interactive features were the least attractive and least used feature of DVDs. I sincerely hope they go away. All we need is movie, extra scenes, deleted scenes, interviews, language tracks. Not Java games and wallpaper downloads.

Web browser? Wallpaper downloads? I'm not even talking about online content and the required Ethernet port. I hope you realize that BD's new 1.1 profile doesn't even support that.

I'm talking about required dual decoders that all BD players in 2008 MUST have, and all HD DVD players already (and must) have. If you think it's unimportant, perhaps you should whine to the BDA, cuz they feel it is important (as do I), and important enough to obsolete pretty much all players built to date except for the PS3.

P.S. HD DVD doesn't even use Java. That is used on Blu-ray. Interestingly, Java is one thing that Paramount commented upon. The CTO states that it's much more of a problem to program cleanly than HD DVD's HDi. HDi is essentially a scripting language, whereas Java is... well... Java. Java is potentially more powerful, but it's also much harder to deal with.

[starman]

What did you expect Paramount's CTO to say? "Pfft. We just took the money and ran. And Blades of Glory on BR? We use them for coasters in the office."

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by *TL 

But... but... but... the "attach rate" for HD discs is so much higher!

There's so much ambiguity, though, thanks to the PS3.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by starman 

What did you expect Paramount's CTO to say? "Pfft. We just took the money and ran. And Blades of Glory on BR? We use them for coasters in the office."

Over at AVS there is a Blu-ray and HD DVD disc authoring guy there who says the exact same thing. MS has been saying that non-programmers can do HDi, but this guy contradicts them. His more realistic statement is that ideally one should have a programmer for both HDi on HD DVD and Java on Blu-ray, but it's still a lot easier to do HDi. This guy even provides actual code for example:

Originally Posted by Jeff Williams 

For some hard code to look at in the HDi vs BD-J argument, below is real working code from both environments that does some simple animation. What looks easier to you?

HDi

Code:
document.Menu.style.animateProperty("y","928px;738px",0.5);

BD-J

Code:
public static void openMenu(Image menu)
{
	for(int i=0, m=12; i<12; i+=1, m+=12)
	{
		bufferGraphics.clearRect(0,0,1830,190);
		bufferGraphics.drawImage(menu,0,200-m,1740,320-m,150,1830,1890,1950,null);
		Interface.getGraphics().drawImage(buffer,90,890,null);
		Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit().sync();
		wait();
	}

}

private static void waitAniFrame()
{
	try
	{
		Thread.sleep(63);
	}
	catch (InterruptedException e)
	{
	      //Error
	}
}

[*TL]

Originally Posted by goMac 

This is exactly right. The standalones will begin to outsell the consoles. And who sells more standalones? HD-DVD.

We heard this entire idea about everyone buying a Playstation to play movies back with the PS2, and it was just a stupid idea. People want a cheap system that comes with a remote to play DVD's.

The fact of the matter is that the ONLY good Bluray player the player camp has is the PS3. How many people in this thread own a standalone Bluray player?

The Sony BDP300 (or something like that) is a solid, inexpensive BD player, and apparently selling quite well. I would have bought it had the PS3 not dropped its price. Didn't I read somewhere reports that all models of stand alone BD players combined were outselling the HD players?

Originally Posted by Eug 

However, as we all know (or at least as most of us know), format adoption depends on the standalone market to be successful.

We certainly don't know this yet; there's never been a console like the PS3 so there's no historic comparison. The PS2 was a clumsy, half-assed DVD player with lousy picture and awkward controls. The PS3 is a fully functional BD player that's been adopted enthusiastically by a lot of people with high-end home theater systems.

You may be right, but it's too early to say.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by *TL 

The Sony BDP300 (or something like that) is a solid, inexpensive BD player, and apparently selling quite well. I would have bought it had the PS3 not dropped its price. Didn't I read somewhere reports that all models of stand alone BD players combined were outselling the HD players?

The Sony BDP300 is obsolete. It is a 1.0 player and can never be updated to 1.1. And it's still noticeably more expensive than the Toshiba entry level player.

We certainly don't know this yet; there's never been a console like the PS3 so there's no historic comparison. The PS2 was a clumsy, half-assed DVD player with lousy picture and awkward controls. The PS3 is a fully functional BD player that's been adopted enthusiastically by a lot of people with high-end home theater systems.

You may be right, but it's too early to say.

It may be early, but I would be surprised if Sony ever felt the PS3 was going to be its primary Blu-ray hardware in people's homes.

First off it doesn't even have IR support, and it costs significantly more than standalones... because it has all these gaming features that most people don't need. Sure it's a nice little piece of kit, but if it didn't win the war for them early on, then it's likely too late for this strategy to work. Blu-ray's fear was to have to have to compete on price, but it looks like that's exactly where the war is going. Blu-ray is hoping for the Funai BD player to save them, but we shall see if they can match HD DVD pricing (and features).

[starman]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Over at AVS there is a Blu-ray and HD DVD disc authoring guy there who says the exact same thing. MS has been saying that non-programmers can do HDi, but this guy contradicts them. His more realistic statement is that ideally one should have a programmer for both HDi on HD DVD and Java on Blu-ray, but it's still a lot easier to do HDi. This guy even provides actual code for example:

Yawn.

Any GOOD developer would never IN A MILLION YEARS write that code more than once. It's called libraries.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by starman 

If PRICE is the key, then why is Blu-Ray, more expensive across the board, winning?

That is what I honestly want to know, as well. Sure it helps as we have seen by the boost, but that is NOT the key.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by starman 

Yawn.

Any GOOD developer would never IN A MILLION YEARS write that code more than once. It's called libraries.

Well, whatever.

I provide a real-life example, from someone who does both platforms for a living. That's all I can do.

[starman]

Looking at that code, I wonder how much setup work has to be done for that animated menu in HDi. Sure the guy shows you one magic line of code, but I wonder if there's like a billion lines just to set THAT up so that it works.

[Chongo]

BB and CC can't keep the Toshiba players in stock while Bluray players sit on the shelves

[starman]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

BB and CC can't keep the Toshiba players in stock while Bluray players sit on the shelves

Where?
Link?
Complete bullsh*t?

[pooka]

Originally Posted by starman 

Looking at that code, I wonder how much setup work has to be done for that animated menu in HDi. Sure the guy shows you one magic line of code, but I wonder if there's like a billion lines just to set THAT up so that it works.

Aren't you a programmer? Or know one? I don't know **** about the code, but it looks like something similar to Actionscript w/FUSE. But hey, even there all it did was simplify & speedup development time for a huge number of developers. Real men do everything by hand each time. Which is why I develop websites in C.

[*TL]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The Sony BDP300 is obsolete.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, the term "obsolete" is misleading at best.

Moreover, its no more so than the ballyhooed $300 A2 is obsolete for its inability to output 1080p and lack of multi-channel audio outputs.

Originally Posted by Chongo

BB and CC can't keep the Toshiba players in stock while Bluray players sit on the shelves

Source? If true, why did Tosh lower its expectations for the year?

[starman]

Originally Posted by pooka 

Aren't you a programmer? Or know one? I don't know **** about the code, but it looks like something similar to Actionscript w/FUSE. But hey, even there all it did was simplify & speedup development time for a huge number of developers. Real men do everything by hand each time. Which is why I develop websites in C.

I've been a programmer for 25 years. HDi looks similar to Cocoa where one line of Objective C will be the equivalent of 40 lines of old Carbon code. However, I'm saying that I don't know enough about HDi to say that the one line shown actually IS the same as the Cocoa/Carbon analogy. I'm questioning its validity. People can throw lines of code around and say "look, this is better" but there's a ton more work than simple coding to get apps working properly.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by starman 

Where?
Link?
Complete bullsh*t?

Toshiba - HD DVD High-Definition DVD Player - HD-A20

Shipment of A2's must have come in, all stores for my zip said unavailable yesterday, the Thunderbird store is still out though, (if they have 1 it shows as available)
BestBuy.com - Store Finder

[starman]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Toshiba - HD DVD High-Definition DVD Player - HD-A20

Shipment of A2's must have come in, all stores for my zip said unavailable yesterday, the Thunderbird store is still out though, (if they have 1 it shows as available)
BestBuy.com - Store Finder

It still doesn't prove a damn thing, but thanks for playing.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by *TL 

Source? If true, why did Tosh lower its expectations for the year?

I can only speak to what the Phoenix market is like.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by starman 

It still doesn't prove a damn thing, but thanks for playing.

Only that as soon as they are put on the shelf, they are bought. BTW I don't own one yet, so I am not a "fanboy" of either format. Since I own a Samsung DLP I am waiting for their duo player to buy mine.

[starman]

According to your store finder for Phoenix, all your local stores have them in stock.

So you've proven NOTHING.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by starman 

According to your store finder for Phoenix, all your local stores have them in stock.

So you've proven NOTHING.

Did you expect the 3 or 4 HD-DVD fanboys to be honest after 56 pages of complete rambling nonsense? It was expected that they would get into lying delusionary panic mode when even cheap boxes couldn't help beat Blu-ray.

To the HD-DVD fanboys, smoke em while ya got em

"Eeiree, blud clat. There be a HD-DVD desperation across de nation, aye."

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by starman 

According to your store finder for Phoenix, all your local stores have them in stock.

So you've proven NOTHING.

nope, still says Thunderbird store is out of the A2, which is the one most people are buying

[Chongo]

The main reason I haven't bought a player yet is Sony's track record: Digital-8, gone; MiniDisc, gone; ßeta, gone; UMD, soon to be gone. If Sony had not bought Colombia Pictures BD would have never left the dock. I own a Samsung DLP and like to stay brand same as much as possible, minimizes compatibility issues, and they make BD players. As I said before, I will buy the BD-UP5000 when it stores in October, Price said to be about $545

One player to rule them all due in October - Home Entertainment - News - Stuff.tv - Earth's best-selling gadget magazine

But what's really bowled us over is the price Samsung hopes to flog it for. It's put its marker down at $545 (around £230). Even allowing for the usual UK pounds price hike that would put it in the running for bargain of the century. Get your name down now.

[Chongo]

Hands-On Samsung's BD-UP5000 Hybrid HD DVD and Blu-ray player (Verdict: So Far, the Best) - Gizmodo

I just had some hands-on time with Samsung's BD-UP5000 Duo HD, their first hybrid Blu-ray and HD DVD disc player. It's so good, it might as well be called BD-UP-Yours-Format-War. (Get it? Yeah, sorry, that wasn't too funny.) It's not the industry's first hybrid disc player—the LG BH100 has that honor. But it is the first to actually be fully compatible with both, and therefore the one that could end the HD Disc bitch fight.

[mitchell_pgh]

Why can't Apple just release a driver and say "this is the format we are supporting with all of our software" so one side can say "na naaa na na naaa" to the other side.

I'm still rather sure BD will win in the long run, but I feel like it's going to be a long battle.

[Eug]

Amazon sold out of the HD-A2 today.

Originally Posted by *TL 

As has been pointed out elsewhere, the term "obsolete" is misleading at best.

1.1 functionality is mandatory as of Oct. 31. The Sony does not have that functionality.

Moreover, its no more so than the ballyhooed $300 A2 is obsolete for its inability to output 1080p

1080p is not mandatory, and anyway, 1080i60 has 100% of the data in 1080p24 material. There is no loss of information at all. Any TV with a proper deinterlacer should be able to reconstruct the original 1080p24 stream. Don't blame Toshiba if your TV can't do it.

and lack of multi-channel audio outputs.

Here, you're really reaching. Again, multi-channel audio outputs are not mandatory, nor should they be. The player can output multichannel audio over HDMI.

Originally Posted by starman 

I've been a programmer for 25 years. HDi looks similar to Cocoa where one line of Objective C will be the equivalent of 40 lines of old Carbon code. However, I'm saying that I don't know enough about HDi to say that the one line shown actually IS the same as the Cocoa/Carbon analogy. I'm questioning its validity. People can throw lines of code around and say "look, this is better" but there's a ton more work than simple coding to get apps working properly.

His statement, whether you choose to believe him or not, is that it takes a programmer to program both HDi and BD-J, but it takes more work to do the latter properly. Not even the BDA disputes this. What the BDA states in response is that BD-J is potentially more powerful, and that is probably true, but up to now it hasn't really been the case. If anything, it's the HD DVD discs that have superior interactive features, probably because the spec is solid and the platform is mature enough to accomplish this.

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

Why can't Apple just release a driver and say "this is the format we are supporting with all of our software" so one side can say "na naaa na na naaa" to the other side.

I'm still rather sure BD will win in the long run, but I feel like it's going to be a long battle.

Apple has already officially stated they are format neutral. That will probably eventually change, but that is their current stance. It would seem they do not know who is going to "win" either.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

To the HD-DVD fanboys, smoke em while ya got em

Allow me to respond with a maturity level similar to yours....

Eat my shorts.

First Sub-$200 HD DVD Player Announced: Venturer SHD7000 - Gizmodo

[*TL]

Originally Posted by Eug 

1.1 functionality is mandatory as of Oct. 31. The Sony does not have that functionality....
***
Here, you're really reaching.

You're playing semantic games with "obsolete"; 1.0 players aren't suddenly going to stop working, which use of the term obsolete intentionally implies. There may be some discs with some features that non-1.1 players can't play, but the movies will still play just fine.

Which would I rather have, a player that can't handle a picture-in-picture bonus feature I'll never watch, or one that can't output 1080p and requires me to drop another $700-$1000 on a new HDMI-capable receiver (which, come to think of it, pretty much decimates the A2's price advantage) to get full res audio? I'll go with the former, but if you're down with the latter, well, different strokes, etc.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

nope, still says Thunderbird store is out of the A2, which is the one most people are buying

Before I left work, the Thunderbird store was listed as BLACK with an Add to Cart pic next to it. Now it says they're out of stock. Sounds like their server isn't very reliable. Have you tried calling them? And what f'n difference does it make anyway?

[starman]

Originally Posted by pooka 

Allow me to respond with a maturity level similar to yours....

(To the tune of Tenacious D)

Yes you are ****ed
**** out of luck
Your price has been beat
And HD's cock you will suck

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/format-wa...000-294791.php

Close Encounters
Die Hard
ID4
Spiderman 1-3
etc.

All on BR.

So you can claim all you want that the thing is cheap (which is fine) but the chance to get those movies, and all the others coming, is worth the extra money.

Yesterday I bought Stargate on BR (the fixed one) and Heroes on HD-DVD. You can claim that lower prices will help, but the titles say a different story.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by *TL 

You're playing semantic games with "obsolete"; 1.0 players aren't suddenly going to stop working, which use of the term obsolete intentionally implies. There may be some discs with some features that non-1.1 players can't play, but the movies will still play just fine.

Let me ask you an honest question.

Let's say the Sony Profile 1.0 player were $399.
Let's say another player came on the market for $450 that was Profile 1.1.

Which would you recommend, even to the average customer?

If those were my only 2 choices, I'd recommend the $450 player no question, cuz... well... the Profile 1.0 player is obsolete.

However, as you probably have already guessed, I'd rather recommend the $299 Toshiba which has the functionality of a Profile 2.0 BD player... today.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by pooka 

Allow me to respond with a maturity level similar to yours....

(To the tune of Tenacious D)

Yes you are ****ed
**** out of luck
Your price has been beat
And HD's cock you will suck

First Sub-$200 HD DVD Player Announced: Venturer SHD7000 - Gizmodo

OK, let me repeat once again the question that I've been asking the HD-DVD side: if price was the most important factor, why hasn't HD-DVD already won? The price gap between the two formats is only going to get smaller from now on.

BTW, 3 of the BR movies I ordered from Amazon's sale yesterday arrived today. Amazon Prime can be very nice (I just selected the normal 2-day shipping).