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nycdunz · May 25, 2005, 01:56 AM

i was planning on purchasing the x800 xt, but if new cards are on its way anytime within the next few months, I might as well hold off. Does anyone have any insight on this? new ATI cards or NVIDIA cards out for the g5's?

Maflynn · May 25, 2005, 06:48 AM

The x800 is a relatively new card for the mac, so my guess is ATI isn't going release any new one. I'm not sure if there's anyhting in the cards for nvidia.

Mike

reader50 · May 25, 2005, 12:47 PM

nVidia has the GF7800 coming for the PC. We'll get it when/if Apple releases it with new PowerMacs, since we don't get retail nVidia cards.

ATi will doubtless have a reply ready. We'll get it quickly when/if Apple releases it with new PowerMacs. ATi does release a few cards to retail for the Mac, but they take their time about it.

Gregory · May 25, 2005, 04:26 PM

One thing ATI could do is what they did for the R9800ME which was updated to 256MB, same as the SE model, go to 512MB to better support C.I. and Quartz. It takes time to optimize and get the most out of a card and the X800XT still has some bugs to work out.

I would expect we'll see PCI-E cards even if it means using an AGP slot adapter in a year if Apple isn't ready with PCI-E (you'd think they would, though, wouldn't you?).

rm199 · May 25, 2005, 06:51 PM

I'm waiting for the R520 based (will they call it X1000 series perhaps...) but it might be some moons away - rumour was for June on the PC but that is now uncertain and perhaps it will be later still. I guess we can add 3-6 months to that date.

Cadaver · May 25, 2005, 08:10 PM

There's something better every six months... though my guess is the X800XT will be tops for the Mac for another few.

Luca Rescigno · May 25, 2005, 08:40 PM

Yeah, the high end cards are in pretty good shape. ATI has released a slightly updated version of the X800 called the X850, but it's not enough of a change to warrant designing a Mac version, stopping production of the Mac X800, and starting it up for the Mac X850.

I think the biggest change will come when Macs start to use PCI Express. This isn't really a high-end thing either... there are a lot of excellent low-end and midrange video cards that are available only in PCI-E form. Most pre-built systems from the big manufacturers that have expandable graphics use PCI-E instead of AGP. I'd like to see the old school 5200s, 9200s and 9600s replaced with modern PCI-E equivalents, like the GeForce 6200, 6600, and 6600GT, and the Radeon X300, X700, and X700 Pro. Those cards are all PCI-E only (except the 6600GT) and would fit well into Apple's lineup. They're not hugely faster than their old counterparts, but they are a minor improvement, and they set the bar a little higher.

I don't think the high-end cards will change much, at least not in the near future. It's the low end that's shifting up very quickly. The FX5200 and Radeons 9200 and 9600 are now ancient technology.

rm199 · May 26, 2005, 04:38 AM

Interestingly the new powermac manual mentions the X850 as one of the graphics options.

On another note don't read too many PC hardware sites at the moment... I keep seeing all the talk about dual PCIe cards in 'SLI' mode. Imagine 2 NVIDIA 7800's (a single 7800 is meant to be twice as powerful as the 6800 ultra). oh boy and to think PCs don't even have coreimage!

westrock · May 26, 2005, 07:40 AM

I'm still kinda new to Mac's so bear with me here.

The Power Mac (Dual 2.3 & 2.7) both have 3 PCI Express slots, but the video processing is still done on an 8x AGP slot? Are any of the PCI-X slots on the Mac x16, or are they all x1? I'm assuming x1 since none are used for video.

Now I'm kinda confused. Because the PC market is moving to PCI-X video cards because of there bandwidth over AGP, yet Apple is squeezing 2560x1600 resolution out of the 30" display over an AGP slot, something no PC company has done yet even with the PCI-X. So does that mean AGP really isn't as "archiac" as PC companies make it out to be?

I'm thinking about maybe getting a G5 beginning of next year, maybe they will announce something by then.

darwin23 · May 26, 2005, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by westrock

I'm still kinda new to Mac's so bear with me here.

The Power Mac (Dual 2.3 & 2.7) both have 3 PCI Express slots, but the video processing is still done on an 8x AGP slot? Are any of the PCI-X slots on the Mac x16, or are they all x1? I'm assuming x1 since none are used for video.

Now I'm kinda confused. Because the PC market is moving to PCI-X video cards because of there bandwidth over AGP, yet Apple is squeezing 2560x1600 resolution out of the 30" display over an AGP slot, something no PC company has done yet even with the PCI-X. So does that mean AGP really isn't as "archiac" as PC companies make it out to be?

I'm thinking about maybe getting a G5 beginning of next year, maybe they will announce something by then.

You are confusing PCI-EXPRESS(PCI-E) with PCI-EXTREME(PCI-X).

PCI-X used in some TOL PowerMac G5's is two 100Mhz PCI Slots and 1 133mHz Slot. Compaired to 33Mhz PCI Slots found in G4's(64 Bit), and 66Mhz 32bit PCI slot in G3 B&W(1 slot), G4 PCI.

All PCI Mac's From the OLD WORLD use 32bit 33mHz PCI.

33Mhz 32bit=133MB/s that's Megabyte not Megabit.

33mhz 64bit=266MB/s

100mhz 32bit=399MB/s

133Mhz 32bit=532MB/s

PCI-Express is much faster and can draw Data direct from RAM something like AGP. However, you can't have AGP and PCI-E on the same logic-Board. NO PCI card will fit in a PCI-E slot, most PCI cards will fit and work in PCI-X slots, other than OLD cards not keyed to fit 5-volt PCI, and a few that are keyed PCI-uni that will not work without 5volt(these will burn up your PCI slots and kill your G5)

See how simple that was

rm199 · May 26, 2005, 12:26 PM

actually 3840x2400 screens and cards have been available on the PC for years.

AGP isn't "archiac" but it doesn't take into account the new uses people have found for graphics cards (coreimage etc etc...) where you might want data to come back from the card at high speed (AGP is asymetric - high speed to the card, 'low' speed from it). there is no 'killer app' yet that means you absolutely need PCIe but it will come.

reader50 · May 26, 2005, 12:30 PM

You can have AGP and PCIe on the same motherboard. There is no technical holdup, it's political. Intel wants everyone to move to PCIe, and leaving off the AGP slot will speed that up. Preproduction versions of the nForce4 chipset supported an AGP slot as well as PCIe, the AGP support was dropped before the chipset was completed.

I expect someone in the PC world will release a motherboard with PCIe and AGP as a selling point. There is a lot of competition over there; the smaller manufacturers need unique features to sell their products. Or lower prices.

rm199 · May 26, 2005, 12:35 PM

you're right, actally I believe one motherboard maker already makes dual AGP/PCIe boards under a banner of 'migration friendly'.

rm199 · May 26, 2005, 01:10 PM

back on topic ATI announced today that the R520 based card will have H264 hardware accelerated decoding functionality.

although the card will likely hit the mac one day who knows if drivers will enable all the goodies like that...

MORT A POTTY · May 26, 2005, 01:13 PM

getting back on topic... Apple has mentioned on their website (and I called and asked about it on the phone) and it said the X850 is indeed coming from ATI soon but when I called and asked, the guy only confirmed that but said I'd have to ask ATI for more info because he didn't have any more info other than it is indeed coming.