[cdetdi]

Well, The March of the Penguins has made enough to have it take the #2 spot of highest earning documentaries ever, behind Fahrenheit 9/11. Lets try to avoid and argument of the merits of the movie, but I don't think it should be considered a Documentary. It was a political film that was not completely "documentary" in its reporting. It isn't fair to compare movies that are based on research about different parts of life and educate you about history or nature, as is the case with March of the Penguins, with Fahrenheit 9/11. I think 9/11 should be removed from the "documentary" classification and be put with normal movies.

Moreover, there was much more to 9/11 as there were motives to it and it was released in a heated atmosphere. Not everyone saw the movie out of pure interest in the topic, the movie had much more attached to it (political viewpoint, viewpoint of Moore, war, Bush).

Lastly, it made hundreds of millions more than anything else, that should be somewhat of an indicator that it is misclassified...

cdetdi

[PacHead]

Fahrenheit 9-11 is not a documentary at all. It is a propaganda film, that deliberately misleads and lies. Many of the people in the movie appear against their will. The nazis made similiar movies.



I hear that the fat, lying jerk is having a hard time making his newest film, because nobody wants to speak to him, something that is hardly surprising.

[ReggieX]

Oh no, comparisons to Nazis!

Originally Posted by cdetdi

Not everyone saw the movie out of pure interest in the topic, the movie had much more attached to it (political viewpoint, viewpoint of Moore, war, Bush).

What exactly is this supposed to mean? Why would someone not interested in the topic go see the movie?

[- - e r i k - -]

Once you start comparing something to nazism in a discussion you immediately lose. Thanks for playing though.

[cdetdi]

What exactly is this supposed to mean? Why would someone not interested in the topic go see the movie?

People will go see a documentary because they are interested in the topic. There really wasn't a specific topic behind 9/11 and there was a lot of fanaticism behind it. People went to see it because of the "buzz" surrounding the movie. I myself wouldn't have seen it if it wasn't such an "issue".

cdetdi

Any more thoughtful responses?

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Once you start comparing something to nazism in a discussion you immediately lose. Thanks for playing though.

Michael Moore already lost, because his film did not succeed in it's intended goals. Fahrenheit 9-11 is now a completely irrelevent movie.

Anybody who dismisses the nazi comparison offhand, is a person of lesser intelligence, as there are legitimate, valid comparisons between the two. Educate yourself and lookup Leni Riefenstahl, if ignorant people wish to educate themselves.

[cdetdi]

^completely useless reply

Anybody who dismisses the nazi comparison offhand, is a person of lesser intelligence, as there are legitimate, valid comparisons between the two. Educate yourself and lookup Leni Riefenstahl, if ignorant people wish to educate themselves.

Counterpoint: Someone who doesn't use commas properly is a person of lesser intelligence.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by cdetdi

^completely useless reply


Counterpoint: Someone who doesn't use commas properly is a person of lesser intelligence.

And somebody who places their posts in the wrong forum can also be classified as a person of lesser intelligence.

[cdetdi]

Please note this was NOT a political discussion, it was whether 9/11 should be a documentary. Accordingly, it belongs in the lounge and not in the Political Forum.

Lets try to avoid and argument of the merits of the movie, but I don't think it should be considered a Documentary.

[chris v]

Send it to Pol/War, you sh*theads.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by cdetdi

Please note this was NOT a political discussion, it was whether 9/11 should be a documentary. Accordingly, it belongs in the lounge and not in the Political Forum.

Where've you been ? This same exact topic has been covered plenty of times on this forum already. The mods will probably move your thread anyhow, as they've done in the past with similiar threads about Michael "liar/traitor" Moore.

[- - e r i k - -]

I'm impressed PacHead. Nazi-comparisons AND off-hand ad-hominems in one thread? You really know how to swing that debate-sabre!

And for the record, I'm very well versed in matters of propaganda, Leni Riefenstahl and nazism in general thank you very much. However I do not blatantly go swing such crude comparisons around in discussions. Now literary comparisons are more my style. How about 1984 and it's shivering similarities to what's going on with that administration of yours?

Or rather not.

[RAILhead]

Since this thread is crap already, I'd thought I'd post some pics of penguins (the whole Penguin vs 9/11 thing was as dumb as it gets)...

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Now literary comparisons are more my style. How about 1984 and it's shivering similarities to what's going on with that administration of yours?

Or rather not.

Ah, a George Orwell fan heh ?

You do realize 1984 is a work of fiction right ? Do they teach you that in your schools ? Get your head out of imaginary books for five seconds and join the real world.

Here's a George Orwell quote for you to think about:

"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me.'"
-- George Orwell

[- - e r i k - -]

He also said this:

" War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent. "

[loki74]

doc·u·men·ta·ry adj. A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.

MM's movie factual? Most definately not. Informative? Only of how deep into deciet some sickos will go simply to make a man they don't like look bad, and how many people they will take advandage of, twisting their words to achieve that objective.

Farenheit 9/11 is not a documentary. You can see its every last srhed of credibility systematically dismantled in FarenHYPE 9/11, which is factual from start to end and very informative.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

How about 1984 and it's shivering similarities to what's going on with that administration of yours?

Or rather not.

Or the Libs on the SCOTUS who approved gov't seizure of personal property, so that it may be used by private entities? Or is that not a right that you "care about"?

[suvsr4terrorists]

I think the original post is very very very valid. 9/11 was propaganda. This penguins documentary is actually a documentary. However,.... I don't get it. Turn on the TV and watch PBS or the discovery channel. You'll see the same freakin thing. Why anybody would spend $8.50 to watch a documentary on penguins is beyond me.

On a side note, anybody catch the "MASSIVE NATURE" shows? I watched 'the deep' last night, it was about a shoal of sardines. WOW. It was incredible!

[MrForgetable]

i never watched fahrenheit 9-11.

i hope i'm not the only one.

[ort888]

I've seen people list the lies and inconsistencies in F911, and they are there, no doubt. But the overall message of the film remains more or less truthful and to the point.

It could be compared to something like this...

Person 1 "Mr. Smith had dozens young girls locked in his basement as sex slaves. When he was done with them, he would sell them on ebay."

Person 2 "HA HA! You are a liar! Mr. Smith only had 11 girls in his basement and he sold them at half.com! Liar! Liar!"

Person 1OK, but..

Person 2 LIAR! LIAR! LIAR!

[goMac]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Many of the people in the movie appear against their will. The nazis made similiar movies.

<John Stewart>Ladies and gentleman, on August 8th, at 12:54, we have our first Nazi reference.</John Stewart>

[suvsr4terrorists]

Originally Posted by MrForgetable

i never watched fahrenheit 9-11.

i hope i'm not the only one.

I didn't see it either. I saved $8 by just reciting "I hate Bush" for 1.5 hours.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Fahrenheit 9-11 is not a documentary at all. It is a propaganda film, that deliberately misleads and lies. Many of the people in the movie appear against their will. The nazis made similiar movies.
:

Nazi's were extreme right wing like you so we know who your hero is.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by ort888

I've seen people list the lies and inconsistencies in F911, and they are there, no doubt. But the overall message of the film remains more or less truthful and to the point.

Hey man, have you ever considered a job at CBS ?

These documents are fake but accurate !

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

Nazi's were extreme right wing like you so we know who your hero is.

I'm right in the middle, the average American.

Nazis were socialists.

[BRussell]

This is a silly argument. Of course it's a documentary. Documentaries have a point-of-view or agenda. They don't just film 90 minutes of random life and then stick it on the screen. They're trying to make some point. Sometimes that point is more balanced, sometimes it is very one-sided, but being one-sided doesn't make it less of a documentary. It might make it a bad documentary, or an unfair one, but no less a documentary. A good analogy is another documentary that did very well - Supersize Me. It has a very anti-fast-food agenda. Does that mean it's not a documentary? Of course not. I hate pop music, but I wouldn't say (like some people do) that it's not 'music.' People might hate modern art, but that doesn't mean it's not 'art.' Don't try to define it as something else just because you don't like it. Is it propaganda? Sure, any persuasive political piece that you don't like could be called propaganda. But that doesn't mean it's not a documentary.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Hey man, have you ever considered a job at CBS ?

These documents are fake but accurate !

So as soon as fake documents come out on the subject, the president should just be let off the hook?

Well, he did do all this stuff, but because one of the major networks had some fake documents, let's just forget the whole thing.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

Nazi's were extreme right wing like you so we know who your hero is.

So that would make you more aligned with Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot?

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by ort888

So as soon as fake documents come out on the subject, the president should just be let off the hook?

Well, he did do all this stuff, but because one of the major networks had some fake documents, let's just forget the whole thing.

Did do all of what stuff ? If the only allegations exist in a set of fraudulent, lying documents, then no, there is no proof that he did any of it.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by PacHead

I'm right in the middle, the average American.

Nazis were socialists.

No they were not. That was the irony that they used socialist in there name. They were extreme right wing. Socialists...haha!

If you're the average American why do you follow Bush like sheep or penguins for that matter.

[ort888]

So there are no other records of Mr. Bush's less then stellar military service?

Because CBS had some fake documents we should just ignore the whole thing?

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

So that would make you more aligned with Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot?

hmmm...I never mentioned my politics. Typical of you...always assuming and always wrong.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

If you're the average American why do you follow Bush like sheep or penguins for that matter.

I don't follow Bush blindly, nor do I belong to any party. Bush is a little too soft on certain issues.

What country are you from, if you're not too ashamed to answer ?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

So that would make you more aligned with Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot?

On the political spectrum, Stalin and Mao would be correct. Of course, again, they're extreme left wing. Just like Hitler was extreme right wing.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by ort888

Because CBS had some fake documents we should just ignore the whole thing?

Yes, apparently it wasn't that big of a deal. The majority of people did re-elect him afterall.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by PacHead

I don't follow Bush blindly, nor do I belong to any party. Bush is a little too soft on certain issues.

What country are you from, if you're not too ashamed to answer ?

I'm an American born and raised in Missouri. Why would I be ashamed?

What issues is Bush too soft on?

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by ort888

So there are no other records of Mr. Bush's less then stellar military service?

Because CBS had some fake documents we should just ignore the whole thing?

No because Moore is fat like 60% of Americans. That's the biggest argument I've heard from the extreme right wing.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by ort888

I'm an American born and raised in Missouri. Why would I be ashamed?

What issues is Bush too soft on?

My question was to atomic rooster.

It would be pretty funny if he was german, calling other people for nazis.



The issues Bush is soft on ? Well, this isn't the PL, but the first thing that comes to mind: Immigration and the second thing : WOT

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by PacHead

My question was to atomic rooster.

I would be pretty funny if he was german, calling other people for nazis.



The issues Bush is soft on ? Well, this isn't the PL, but the first thing that comes to mind: Immigration and the second thing : WOT

So you think present day Germans are Nazis? So you must think Americans are aboriginal ethnic cleansers...yes?

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

So you think present day Germans are Nazis? So you must think Americans are aboriginal ethnic cleansers...yes?

Where did I say that present day germans are nazis ?

And I see that you are still evading my simple question, as to what country you're from. There's nothing to be ashamed of. You cannot be faulted for where you where born.

[ironknee]

you know penguins evolved from ...oops...adding gasoline to the fire...

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Where did I say that present day germans are nazis ?

And I see that you are still evading my simple question, as to what country you're from. There's nothing to be ashamed of. You cannot be faulted for where you where born.

MY father was from Michigan and my mother from Ontario. I was born in Michigan and raised in Ontario. Spent many years in both countries and now live in Ontario in Canada the best country in the world but I'm your all Americanadian boy.

I can knock or defend either country because they're both mine.

[OwlBoy]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Once you start comparing something to nazism in a discussion you immediately lose. Thanks for playing though.

[Demonhood]

there was no way this wasn't going to turn political.
thread moved.

[yakkiebah]

Very moving, bring out the tissues.

[SimpleLife]

*****ing Nazis.

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Since this thread is crap already, I'd thought I'd post some pics of penguins (the whole Penguin vs 9/11 thing was as dumb as it gets)...

(Reviewed, corrected, and adjusted to thread)

Nazi gruppies:

Masked Nazi:

Cave-dweller Nazi:

Yellow-B*st*rd Nazi:

Spy-Hopping Nazi:

Masked Nazi Gruppies:

Sleeping Nazi:

[sek929]

I think the Emperor penguin is the tyrant to rule them all!

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Ah, the elusive and rare "David Blaine Penguin".

[Atomic Rooster]

The Jesus penguin. Not quite walking on water but hey, air is harder.

[SimpleLife]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

The Jesus penguin. Not quite walking on water but hey, air is harder.

ROFL!