[iBorg]

Originally posted by Millennium:
<STRONG>Granted, you should have been told that a new model was being geared for release, and that it would probably have been released within the next couple of months, but in the end, it was a risk you took, and you got burned. Is it a bummer? Of course. But it's not worth a lawsuit which, in the end, will likely cost you many times more than the TiBook did.</STRONG>

Knowledgeable people who want to buy top-of-the-line Macs tend to wait until MWSF or MWNY, unless they really need it "now!" And if that's the case, buying it "now" means having the use of it "now" rather than waiting, which is certainly worth something! I don't see it as getting "burned" - you still have the best laptop available, minus a combo drive, which Apple is letting you upgrade for a few hundred bucks!

Shouldn't someone buying a Mac in October realize that there's a high probability of an upgrade coming at MWSF, just 3 months later? So Apple released the combo drive a couple of weeks earlier! Enough whining! Frequent upgrades and new releases are the way of commerce in electronics.



iBorg

Originally posted by iBorg:
<STRONG>

Knowledgeable people who want to buy top-of-the-line Macs tend to wait until MWSF or MWNY, unless they really need it "now!" And if that's the case, buying it "now" means having the use of it "now" rather than waiting, which is certainly worth something! I don't see it as getting "burned" - you still have the best laptop available, minus a combo drive, which Apple is letting you upgrade for a few hundred bucks!

Shouldn't someone buying a Mac in October realize that there's a high probability of an upgrade coming at MWSF, just 3 months later? So Apple released the combo drive a couple of weeks earlier! Enough whining! Frequent upgrades and new releases are the way of commerce in electronics.



iBorg</STRONG>

Well in this case the CDRW which I have and I'm happy though I di point out to Apple that if they wish to make sudden changes almost weeks after a new upgrade that they should offer some steepr discount. They sent me an 99 buck black Apple computer case. They did not say that we should be anything but upset.

I'm not as I got my cdrw and DVD is low down as I bought an iBook 600 DVD for travel.

Also Jobs made it clear that trade shows are not always going to be the venue for major upgrades. Last July was a disgrace and we held off buying the latest Mac and bought cheaper old/new model. What we will see on Jan 7 we will see what should have been shown last year.

Still in the end 299 bucks is nothing to pay if you want a combo.

[roxnadz]

Originally posted by seanyepez:
<STRONG>You don't even have to sell it on eBay. Take it in to an Apple Store and have them update your machine's DVD driev to a combination DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive.

That's the irony in all of this; Apple is giving you the opportunity to upgrade.</STRONG>

I like the fact that Apple is allowing us to upgrade. I just wish they weren't charging 300$ for it. Hell, I'd do it for 200$ just to keep it in the case. But it's more cost effective to get a slim 24x burner. I dunno, maybe a discount for those who got theirs in the weeks before the combo drive announcement?

[glennmac]

Well, as both a lawyer and one who bought a 667 ten days before the combo announcement, I'll comment.

I don't think there is a basis for a lawsuit.

However, I do share the underlying feeling of the originator of this thread. Apple is guilty of shameless greed at the the expense of good customer relations. Surely they knew in October they were shortly going to announce the combo. Surely they knew they could barely deliver the CDRW's they announced in October. And surely all of this was motivated by desperate desire to get two revenue bumps before Christmas and 4th quarter earnings reports.

I have been away from Apple for 5 years in PC hell. I spent 2 months researching the current product line, reading forums and reviews, and bidding on (mostly fraudulent) Ti auctions. No, I did not expect Apple to announce a combo so quickly. My conclusion, obviously wrong, was that there was some technical impediment to fitting a combo the thin Ti case.

I think we should not take the class action comment so literally. I think we should focus instead on what is, in my opinion at least, a valid gripe about corporate conduct that has a sleaziness that is beyond normal product cycling and technological obsolesence.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by tullamore:
<STRONG>SHUT UP!!! Do you think that if I were to buy a new PowerMac today and then something sooo much better comes out on Jan 7 ( Just seven days later ) that I deserve to have Apple upgrade my computer to all the new features a new computer would have. NO that's life. They didn't make me buy the computer 7 days before MacWorld.</STRONG>

My God man! Did you eat paint as a kid? This is a question about rules and business ethics. If you would ask Apple today if they are going to release an LCD iMac on the 7th, do you really think they would answer yes or no?!?

They would just say "no comment" or "you'll just have to wait and see". That is the whole point here. That is why we don't usually get upset when the latest computers get updated.
If Apple were asked directly if there will be an LCD iMac on the 7th, and you would get the direct answer "no", then Apple would be lying to you if an LCD iMac did appear on the 7th.

That lie would affect your purchasing choice.

Get it?

[seanyepez]

They should stick to "no comment" when asked about future product releases.

I don't think there is a high probability of an upgrade in January, iBorg. They said they might steer clear of expositions for product releases from now on.

Why would they give the people who bought the machine right before a combination drive came out the chance to uprade for less? The upgrade only applies to one type of computer, the Onyx PowerBook G4. They determined the price to be $300. They shouldn't go any lower for anyone who bought in the weeks prior to the announcement because the machine has only been out for three months. Are the people who bought three months ago less entitled to an upgrade than those who bought two weeks ago? That's price bracketing, and it would be too complicated to implement.

[iBorg]

Originally posted by glennmac:
<STRONG>.....Apple is guilty of shameless greed at the the expense of good customer relations. Surely they knew in October they were shortly going to announce the combo. Surely they knew they could barely deliver the CDRW's they announced in October. And surely all of this was motivated by desperate desire to get two revenue bumps before Christmas and 4th quarter earnings reports.

.....I think we should not take the class action comment so literally. I think we should focus instead on what is, in my opinion at least, a valid gripe about corporate conduct that has a sleaziness that is beyond normal product cycling and technological obsolesence.</STRONG>

"Shameless greed???" Because they gave 2 great updates to the best laptop available, 2 months apart? What planet are you living on? Did you not get a fantastic Ti for a reasonable price? You'd prefer what - upgrades once or twice yearly, and get left behind in the dust by Dell, et.al.? I hardly think that a mid-December combo drive upgrade gave a "revenue bump" for Christmas! (Or maybe they just waited for you to buy your DVD Ti to announce the combo drive upgrade - yeah, that's probably what they did.......)

And "corporate conduct that has a sleaziness?" Why, because Apple keeps giving us the best of cutting edge technology, as soon as they can manufacture it??? What are you smoking?

"Sleazy corporate greed" would be making everyone wait for an upgrade until you can milk the consumer maximally without offering them your best, or telling us "f**k you - you want a Mac, you'll settle for crap hardware to run our OS at sinfully inflated prices!" (Or, pulling a Micro$haft, and crushing the competition to maintain monopolistic dominance!)

What's wrong with you whiners! Apple keeps giving us more.....for the same (or less) money ..... and you just keep on bitching and complaining!!! Please "get a Dell, Dude" next time!!!



iBorg

[seanyepez]

Notebook manufacturers like Dell and Compaq update their line as soon as they can get a hold of the newest components from their respective manufacturers.

Apple waits a while before they do anything to their line. If anything, you should be happy they haven't already bumped the series to 650- and 733-megahertz G4 PowerBooks now that the CPU's are available from Motorola. Instead, they're going to until their next major release.

You got what you paid for when you paid for it. Your notebook is still very capable. I don't see a reason for you to be unhappy with your purchase; filing a lawsuit would be purely irrational.

[ltitle]

As the originator of this thread, I'm amazed at the number of responses.

Clearly, I was being sarcastic about the lawsuit thing as there is no provable case that could be made. I was trying to see how many people were as ticked off as me.

The issue I was trying to raise was the ethics of a company like Apple, announcing a product upgrade on Oct. 16, knowing full well that a combo would be available in a reasonable time frame (i.e. 2 months later) while failing to offer consumers the option of waiting for this anxiously anticipated upgrade. Moreover, to have employees deny that combos may be available soon, is also questionable. Furthermore, to make "false" incentives to buy early (e.g. the double the RAM for free promo) is a joke, when the revised machine with the combo contains the "double" RAM as a standard configuration !!! Certainly, this should raise some cynicism among the loyal Apple supporters. We are quick to jump on Micros**T for their business practices, but as Apple supporters why do we continue to accept this behaviour from Apple. I'm amazed that many of you consider this to be a normal part of purchasing computer equipment. Sure, we all expect processor will get better and faster in the future and machines will get newer industrial designs. But this is not the same. The combo technology has been available in iBooks for some time and in the PC world even longer. More importantly, the combo solution to fit in the TiBook was worked out by the time that the 667/550 Tibooks were announced in October. Obviously, Apple didn't bring them out then, due to timing and availability, but at the same time wanted to increase PowerBook sales which have been dwindling in anticipation of the long overdue, revision with a combo drive. Unfortunately, many of us believed Apple, and Apple resellers and the rumor pages which suggested that a combo drive was unlikely in the near future. As a result, we made the conscious decision to buy the revision (and yes, I can live with my decision). Nonetheless, we were truly shocked and upset to see a combo announced weeks later.

Obviously, most of you are feel this is justified.

[Tristrami]

Perhaps our litigant should follow the advice given here to a similarly bitter and whiny complainer:

: I have been using the same SE/30 for 12 years and am too cheap to buy
a new machine. I've been hearing about Mac OS X and feel that Apple owes
it to me, because of my purchase 12 years ago, to make OS X work on my
SE. My question is, what is the best way for me to whine about this?

A: We suggest you write an "open letter" to Apple describing your ridiculous demand. Publish this letter on your own web site and every forum you can find, regardless of the forum topic. Email the letter to every Mac-related web site and ask them to publish it. Have your name legally changed to the entire text of the letter and introduce yourself to everyone you see. Get the letter tattooed on your ass and walk around in nothing but leather chaps. Finally, drive over to Steve Jobs' house and shake your ass in his window until he "does the right thing".

Thanks, Crazy Apple Rumors!

[voodoo]

Whining doesn't help. If you want something done, then do it yourself! Of course Apple customers are as disappointed as anyone else when a new model is released only a short time after they buy theirs, but there's no point in crying about it. But the points that have been made here on business ethics have been quite interesting. That should be the topic of discussion, not whining.

[seanyepez]

Originally posted by ltitle:
<STRONG>Clearly, I was being sarcastic about the lawsuit thing as there is no provable case that could be made. I was trying to see how many people were as ticked off as me.</STRONG>

I didn't detect any sarcasm. I did think you were serious, and I bet a lot of other users thought the same.

Originally posted by ltitle:
<STRONG>Obviously, most of you are fe\el this is justified. </STRONG>

Most of us think it wasn't justified. A few of the new Onyx owners agreed with you because naturally, they want to get more for their money. None of us are happy when our product is dethroned.

Originally posted by ltitle:
<STRONG>This is not about computer obsolesence. We all know, that anything we buy today will be outdated within 6 months or so.</STRONG>

This is about computer "obsolescence" in your mind; you are unhappy because you bought the computer just before something else was announced. If you know the computer is going to be outdated in six months, why would you care that something came out? You talk about being "burned" way back when you bought a Wallstreet/292; being on the bleeding-edge of portable computing does not come without risks. You will lose money on your purchase, obviously. I don't think you should buy the best notebook out if you can't handle having your hardware outdated. Instead, buy the 550-megahertz PowerBook and save yourself from being "burned" when something else comes out.

Your computer is by no means outdated and definitely not obsolete. How can your computer that can do basically everything except CD burning be outdated or obsolete? You can do real-time Final Cut Pro 3.0 effects. Be happy.

Originally posted by ltitle:
<STRONG>How come no one has talked about a class-action lawsuit ??? Wasn't there recently some settlement for imac owners, or something. Apple would certainly get alot of points if it owned up and gave all owners of the 667 and 550 a free upgrade path. But, we know that won't happen.
</STRONG>

This doesn't sound like sarcasm to me. You are actually seriously contemplating a class-action lawsuit in this paragraph. It's not a sin to make mistakes; it's only a sin to claim you did not make a mistake when in reality you know you did.

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: seanyepez ]

[InterfaceGuy]

Where are you people getting the info on the $300 upgrade to combo drive? I called Apple and was told that this was not available but may be in the future.

[seanyepez]

Contact an Apple Store they'll tell you all about it.

You can take your machine in to be upgraded to a combo drive. I think they'll eventually offer it through other venues, but I think the Apple Store is the only place where they stock the new drives.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by brachiator:
<STRONG>

what post? what didja write? </STRONG>

I don't remember. It was probably harsh though

[Tastannin]

Apple isn't an institution of altruism. I believe they did the right thing in saying they will offer all 550/667 TiBook owners the chance to upgrade to a Combo drive. Thats what I'd expect from a business. It does cost some money for Airborne Express, paying techs to do the swaps, etc. I'd imagine this overhead+cost of the combo drive itself would be more than $299.

If you want Apple to be an institution of altruism, it's simple, just buy all the shares of Apple stock until you own it and tell them what to do.
Good luck when that happens, you won't see any money coming in cuz everyone will be sucking it out of Apple.

Just my good ole' opinion.
A happy Ti667/DVD owner.

[seanyepez]

I don't think they're losing money. They probably pay Matsushita around $100 for the drive. However, everything else in your post is correct.

[vmarks]

GlenMac, welcome to MacNN. Thanks for contributing your legal opinion.

The rest of this topic has degenerated into bashing the original poster and venting of frustration.

For that reason, this thread is going to the lounge.

Thanks, and please click through:http://forums.macnn.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=001797

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: vmarks ]

[seanyepez]

Thanks!