[ndptal85]

This is an article from BusinessWeek Magazine describing the troubles Apple is having in the education market and the surprising reasons why (Hint, its not MS or Dell).

http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...3719_tc016.htm

Edit: I originally linked the wrong article.

[voodoo]

good article

[olePigeon]

So it's ignorant and stupid people who are hurting Apple's market share... nothing new.

A couple years ago the California State University system went IT bankrupt and ended up in court over it's purchasing decisions for technology.

What'd they do? They got rid of all their Macintoshes and UNIX servers then replaced them with Windows PCs and encorprated a database system through PeoplePC. Yes, it was cheaper initially until they found out they had to pay licensing fees for the millions of PCs in California education market for the OS, client access, and database.

Because of those they were litterally millions of dollars over budget every year, millions of dollars they could have saved simply by using UNIX or Linux servers with Macintosh and even Windows clients.

This, by the way, was the SECOND time they did it.

Blind lemmings indeed.

Originally posted by ndptal85:
This is an article from BusinessWeek Magazine describing the troubles Apple is having in the education market and the surprising reasons why (Hint, its not MS or Dell).

http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...3719_tc016.htm

Edit: I originally linked the wrong article.

[Nonsuch]

This is nothing new, sadly, but I can't tell you how maddening it is to me. If there's one realm that ought to resist this bovine groupthink, it's education. To say that children should only use the computers they'll use in the workplace is to admit that the purpose of education is nothing more than to process individuals into workers�forget about stimulating their imaginations or encouraging them to think and do more than they're expected to.

[ambush]

Apple never learns.

They're going down in every possible market, (except maybe mp3 players market, and it's because they made the iPod windows compatible) but yet their strategy is still the same: produce slow, overpriced machines with a great OS.

Look Apple, I don't need the G5's aluminium ****, give me a freaking BEIGE ATX BOX with a G5 in it that can run OS X and I won't complain.

PLEASE.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by ambush:
Apple never learns.

They're going down in every possible market, (except maybe mp3 players market, and it's because they made the iPod windows compatible) but yet their strategy is still the same: produce slow, overpriced machines with a great OS.

Look Apple, I don't need the G5's aluminium ****, give me a freaking BEIGE ATX BOX with a G5 in it that can run OS X and I won't complain.

PLEASE.

Do you ever say anything inteligent?




Anyway, Apple in all honesty should be looking to get IT people trained with Macs. If they can do THAT then it'll be good. I know the graphics lab at my old school has to fight to keep the IT guy out. The IT guy is an evil wack job he sets up even new computers with win 95.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Do you ever say anything inteligent?

Taking posting tips from Cipher?


Oh and



I have to be fair.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Do you ever say anything inteligent?




Anyway, Apple in all honesty should be looking to get IT people trained with Macs. If they can do THAT then it'll be good. I know the graphics lab at my old school has to fight to keep the IT guy out. The IT guy is an evil wack job he sets up even new computers with win 95.

That's my ****ing opinion so shut the **** up you illiterate monkey.

[Face Ache]

Firstly, superchicken: Shut the **** up.

Now that's out of the way, HELLO?!

Schools teach kids things they need to know for their future. Apple's 2.3% marketshare doesn't factor into this. It's no good teaching a kid Macs at school for ten years if, when they get into the workforce, they are sitting in front of a Windows box and have no frikkin' clue. It IS better to teach kids the computer system they'll probably end up using.

Apple has proven itself unwilling to attempt to increase it's percentages in the home market. It's happy with it's "elite" tag. Well bad luck. The rest of the world moves on.

Jeez I'm glad I left the Apple cult. They're not grounded in reality.

[daimoni]

.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
This is nothing new, sadly, but I can't tell you how maddening it is to me. If there's one realm that ought to resist this bovine groupthink, it's education. To say that children should only use the computers they'll use in the workplace is to admit that the purpose of education is nothing more than to process individuals into workers�forget about stimulating their imaginations or encouraging them to think and do more than they're expected to.

REALITY CHECK. Education IS to prepare kids for the workforce. This ain't Utopia.

And Apple Macs don't "stimulate the imagination" or "encourage them to think". It's a machine.

If anything you have to think more using Windows.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Firstly, superchicken: Shut the **** up.

Now that's out of the way, HELLO?!

Schools teach kids things they need to know for their future. Apple's 2.3% marketshare doesn't factor into this. It's no good teaching a kid Macs at school for ten years if, when they get into the workforce, they are sitting in front of a Windows box and have no frikkin' clue. It IS better to teach kids the computer system they'll probably end up using.

Apple has proven itself unwilling to attempt to increase it's percentages in the home market. It's happy with it's "elite" tag. Well bad luck. The rest of the world moves on.

Jeez I'm glad I left the Apple cult. They're not grounded in reality.

This guy is right. This is getting insane. You can get freaking fast ( and believe me a 3.5 GHz P4HT is fast ) for soooo cheap.

There are like not a lot of reasons to run a mac unless you're a graphic designer or a film editor.

Joe Blow wants a cheap and fast machine he knows will be compatible with his friends'. He won't spend 500$ more and buy a Mac, trust me.

Look Apple, please give us something cheap and we'll buy it. God.

[daimoni]

.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by ambush:
That's my ****ing opinion so shut the **** up you illiterate monkey.

Illiterate monkey? You know... honestly I can't think of anything to ridicule that with. I know it's complettely deserving. But I'm just kinda taken aback with the sheer... the statement's so messed up. I mean first the fact that you call me illiterate, which yes I have poor spelling. But I'm obviously not illiterate, I mean we're talking on a forum you have to be litterate to talk on. So that statement it'self is just kinda out there. And then the fact that you called me a monkey. I mean... you sound like an old lady dude. I don't know if that's like insulting in quebec, perhaps it's the language barrier, maybe that's it... cause I don't think monkey has been an insult since ever... an irritating band of old yes, but an insult not really.

As for my point, how bout I rephrase, do you ever say anything after thinking? I mean not only are your above statements not showing the inteligence you obviously have. I mean you can type, hence you can't be as stupid as you sound. But I gota ask, do you seriously ever think before you post, or do you just like sounding like an overly negative troll? I have yet to notice you make a post that wasn't either insulting Apple or someone else... often me.

[ndptal85]

How the heck is Apple supposed to attract the IT world? Most IT pros consider Macs to be toys. With all the various technologies an IT pro has to learn and get certified for why in the heck would they waste their time on a computer with a market share of 2.3%?

Furthermore the only way for Apple to do this is to have a larger marketshare to begin with. When a young budding developer or network admin wants to learn his trade he/she uses what they have around them. In 90% of those cases its Windows. If they want to get really hardcore they can load up Linux. But a Mac? A platform that costs MORE for LESS performance (speed, games...etc)?

Not very likely.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by ambush:
This guy is right. This is getting insane. You can get freaking fast ( and believe me a 3.5 GHz P4HT is fast ) for soooo cheap.

There are like not a lot of reasons to run a mac unless you're a graphic designer or a film editor.

Joe Blow wants a cheap and fast machine he knows will be compatible with his friends'. He won't spend 500$ more and buy a Mac, trust me.

Look Apple, please give us something cheap and we'll buy it. God.

OK a rule of forum posting. When someone posts an article. instead of just replying with the first thoughts in your head. READ THE ARTICLE.

I will seriously be INCREDIBLY surprised if you honestly did read the article.

and by the way

quote from Intel's website

The Intel� Pentium� 4 Processor with HT Technology and super-fast 800 MHz system bus is now available in frequencies of 3.20 GHz, 3 GHz, 2.80C GHz, 2.60C GHz, and 2.40C GHz.

The fastest P4ht is 3.2Ghz NOT 3.5
One of the best ways to have people know you don't know anything about what you're talking about. Is to show them.

[daimoni]

.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by daimoni:
I thought he told you to shut the **** up?

By the way, check out spell check someday. It comes with the Safari browser.

Whoops sorry, you're illiterate... and can't read this message.

OS 9, and Mozilla. I thought Mac users realized not everyone is like them.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Illiterate monkey? You know... honestly I can't think of anything to ridicule that with. I know it's complettely deserving. But I'm just kinda taken aback with the sheer... the statement's so messed up. I mean first the fact that you call me illiterate, which yes I have poor spelling. But I'm obviously not illiterate, I mean we're talking on a forum you have to be litterate to talk on. So that statement it'self is just kinda out there. And then the fact that you called me a monkey. I mean... you sound like an old lady dude. I don't know if that's like insulting in quebec, perhaps it's the language barrier, maybe that's it... cause I don't think monkey has been an insult since ever... an irritating band of old yes, but an insult not really.

You're right, you're right, monkey could be replaced by fool.

As for my point, how bout I rephrase, do you ever say anything after thinking? I mean not only are your above statements not showing the inteligence you obviously have. I mean you can type, hence you can't be as stupid as you sound. But I gota ask, do you seriously ever think before you post, or do you just like sounding like an overly negative troll? I have yet to notice you make a post that wasn't either insulting Apple or someone else... often me.

Look fool, I don't know if you're rich or not, but I'm not, and schools are not rich either (generally). So, look, fool, I'd like to have a cheaper G5 and sacrifice that aluminum Jonathan Ive look. It's not like a laptop, it's going to stay under my desk and nobody will ever see it.

So yeah, following that logic, a generic ATX box would do the same. Follow me? Did I lost you? Hello? **** I lost him.

And yeah, a school's budget is usually very limited. So if they had to choose between spending what, 3000-5000 more bucks to have Macs instead of PCs, they'd probably choose the PC option.

Anyway, most schools (like mine) buy 3 macs for video editing and the rest of the school is PC only ( rest of school = 1000 PCs ).

OS 9, and Mozilla. I thought Mac users realized not everyone is like them.

So you're zealoting for a company that stopped supporting your favourite OS and declared it as dead?

Brilliant.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by daimoni:
I've been using Apple Macs in the workplace for over 13 years. I depend on them.

Mac = Reality = Food on the table and a roof over my head.

Yeah. It's just a machine. But a damn stimulating one.

EXCEPTION TO THE RULE!

And a poor black man can rise to the top too. Hang on, I'll just go find one to hold up...

I've worked on Macs too. **** I've worked in a nation-wide telecom company that was based on Macs. I've been a Mac techie and I've done Mac phone support. And I've worked in an AppleCentre trying to sell them for a living. I know all about it. More than I want to.

Try an experiment. Go to your AppleCentre and ask the store owner if you can play salesman. Try to sell one of those things to a non-Machead customer. It's virtually impossible.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
REALITY CHECK. Education IS to prepare kids for the workforce. This ain't Utopia.

Really? Is that why we teach young people to read poetry and drama, to paint and draw and play music? Is that why we teach history and science?

The purpose of education is to produce grown people capable of intelligent, informed, and constructive participation in our society, not to count change or click buttons on a freakin' Windows box. If all we expect of our educational system is to teach kids to use Excel or Word, we might as well throw in the towel.

Remember: we don't teach students to use computers; we use computers to teach students. That is, or ought to be, the philosophy at work in our education system.

And Apple Macs don't "stimulate the imagination" or "encourage them to think". It's a machine.

If a school program decides that Windows PCs are a superior educational tool than Macs, I don't have a problem with that. That's not the reasoning at work here.

If anything you have to think more using Windows.

[Superchicken]

This comment deserves it's own quote.

You're right, you're right, monkey could be replaced by fool.

And you just called ME illiterit? Not only is that void of any wit. I also can't even figure out exactly what it means... are you calling me a fool? Am I less than a fool? Is your mother a fool? Are you attracted to fools? Do you have a dog named fool? Is your dog's name spelt with italics? I just don't get it.

Originally posted by ambush:
Look fool, I don't know if you're rich or not, but I'm not, and schools are not rich either (generally). So, look, fool, I'd like to have a cheaper G5 and sacrifice that aluminum Jonathan Ive look. It's not like a laptop, it's going to stay under my desk and nobody will ever see it.

So yeah, following that logic, a generic ATX box would do the same. Follow me? Did I lost you? Hello? **** I lost him.

Sorry did you just say "Did I lost you?" I think you did loose me with that last grammer slip up. Again you're critical of my literacy when your's is showing it's true colours... IE... not really there. Do I spell some words badly? Yes it's because I have a specific disability in that area. The advantage of this, as with other differences in the way that I think is that. While I'm required to proof read twice any work that I submit for grading, and spell check often (when it matters) I'm probably 3 times more creative than you. I'm a lot more artistic. I'm a lot more adept at reading people, and in general I tend to be a cut above the rest in several areas. So you can feel free to look down on me, even with your bad grammer. But the point is that even with your pathetic grammer I can not only keep up to your understanding, I can probably surpase you by a large margin, and with far less effort in a whole wack of feilds. So forgive me if I don't really care what you think about my spelling

And yeah, a school's budget is usually very limited. So if they had to choose between spending what, 3000-5000 more bucks to have Macs instead of PCs, they'd probably choose the PC option.

Anyway, most schools (like mine) buy 3 macs for video editing and the rest of the school is PC only ( rest of school = 1000 PCs ).

My school the last year I was there bought 5 eMacs for the graphics lab. And a few top of the line Net Vistas.

But any school that would waist their money on a G5 right now should be shot. Unless they bought just one. The G5 is not a school computer. That's why the eMac is called an eMac.
If you notice most schools also arn't buying these fictional 3.5Ghz P4s that don't exist.
Most of them are buying they very REAL cheap low end PCs, that are as the article states not to much bellow apple's offerings.

Perhaps like I say, you should prevent people from finding out how little you know... but not showing them

So you're zealoting for a company that stopped supporting your favourite OS and declared it as dead?

Least I'm not trolling the boards of the same company. And who said OS 9 is my fave OS. I love OS X, but my iMac Rev D is a bit slow under X, I'm waiting for panther to breathe some life into it. That and the new iBook I'm about to get. And don't worry once I do have on the fly spell checking, not only will you not be able to have a leg to stand on to insult my literacy. BUT I'll also have a spiffy new sig picture.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:

Really? Is that why we teach young people to read poetry and drama, to paint and draw and play music? Is that why we teach history and science?

The purpose of education is to produce grown people capable of intelligent, informed, and constructive participation in our society, not to count change or click buttons on a freakin' Windows box. If all we expect of our educational system is to teach kids to use Excel or Word, we might as well throw in the towel.

Remember: we don't teach students to use computers; we use computers to teach students. That is, or ought to be, the philosophy at work in our education system.

Best post in the whole thread

[ambush]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
This comment deserves it's own quote.



And you just called ME illiterit? Not only is that void of any wit. I also can't even figure out exactly what it means... are you calling me a fool? Am I less than a fool? Is your mother a fool? Are you attracted to fools? Do you have a dog named fool? Is your dog's name spelt with italics? I just don't get it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fool

Next time, don't ask, go directly to this site.

Sorry did you just say "Did I lost you?" I think you did loose me with that last grammer slip up. Again you're critical of my literacy when your's is showing it's true colours... IE... not really there. Do I spell some words badly? Yes it's because I have a specific disability in that area. The advantage of this, as with other differences in the way that I think is that. While I'm required to proof read twice any work that I submit for grading, and spell check often (when it matters) I'm probably 3 times more creative than you. I'm a lot more artistic. I'm a lot more adept at reading people, and in general I tend to be a cut above the rest in several areas. So you can feel free to look down on me, even with your bad grammer. But the point is that even with your pathetic grammer I can not only keep up to your understanding, I can probably surpase you by a large margin, and with far less effort in a whole wack of feilds. So forgive me if I don't really care what you think about my spelling

Now, if you go check the illiterate definition (hint hint, the site I linked to earlier!!) you'll see that it does not only have to do with grammar.

Having little or no formal education.

Yep. I think everyone can agree on that: you're an idiot. Not convinced, yet? Just search in those homosexual threads.

Disability, eh? That's OK. English isn't my mother tongue, yeah I sometimes make mistakes. But it's a lot more rare when i write in french. But I'm digressing.

Creativity, eh? Well I guess you know me so much that you can say you're more creative than I. How logical. Care to tell me what my real name is, and how old I am, if you know me that much?

My school the last year I was there bought 5 eMacs for the graphics lab. And a few top of the line Net Vistas.

But any school that would waist their money on a G5 right now should be shot. Unless they bought just one. The G5 is not a school computer. That's why the eMac is called an eMac.
If you notice most schools also arn't buying these fictional 3.5Ghz P4s that don't exist.
Most of them are buying they very REAL cheap low end PCs, that are as the article states not to much bellow apple's offerings.

Perhaps like I say, you should prevent people from finding out how little you know... but not showing them [/B]

How little I know.. ah ah ah. Thanks for the great laugh, fool.

Anyway. I have a lot of experience in the "Macs at school" thing, because I'm the only person who knows Macs at my school, and I have to explain how it works to a lot of people.

Why can't I insert my floppy?

Why can't I print on the network printer?

It's so different, I don't like it!

I thought Microsoft had bought Apple?

How do I quit an application?

How do I eject my CD (that's just the best one)?

I want my Word clip-arts!

Why can't I connect to my account on this mac?

Why can't this mac display this webpage correctly?

Where is MS Frontpage?

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
Really? Is that why we teach young people to read poetry and drama, to paint and draw and play music? Is that why we teach history and science?

The purpose of education is to produce grown people capable of intelligent, informed, and constructive participation in our society, not to count change or click buttons on a freakin' Windows box. If all we expect of our educational system is to teach kids to use Excel or Word, we might as well throw in the towel.

Remember: we don't teach students to use computers; we use computers to teach students. That is, or ought to be, the philosophy at work in our education system.

Nice sentiments but how many people do you know that write poetry for a living? Or are actors? (actors are generally cab drivers and waiters anyway). Now how many office workers do you know?

Of course there's two education systems out there...

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
And you just called ME illiterit?

Yes you are illiterit you stupid ****.

Are you still here?

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by ambush:
Having little or no formal education.

Well in that case I'm illiterit too.

[Superchicken]

Ambush, my bed is calling me, and I'm oh so sleepy... I'm not sure if you just bored me to it or if I am physically tired... oh well we'll see.

But I did decide to check out your dictionary site.

#

1. Unable to read and write.
well we know how well you write... badly, but you obviously seem incapable of reading an getting the point of the posted article.

2. Having little or no formal education.
Can't speak to this one... although I have my douts.

#

1. Marked by inferiority to an expected standard of familiarity with language and literature.
Well I'd certainly mark your grammer an sentence structure as inferior. But then again I'm just a monkey so I don't know. (monkey still can't get over that, what are you an old woman or something?)

2. Violating prescribed standards of speech or writing.
Well you're from quebec this is pretty much a givin.


# Ignorant of the fundamentals of a given art or branch of knowledge: musically illiterate.
Hmm well you are illiterate of the current speeds of the pentium 4... and the average price points of these uber machines you're comparing the G5 to.

But again my lovely king sized be calls me to sleep the sleep of uhh... something that sleeps.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Well in that case I'm illiterit too.

Well I don't have nothing against illitarate people, but this guy is a pure idiot.

Anyway, you speak like someone with a great education.

I guess I'm illiterate too, because I haven't finished my HS yet

[ambush]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Ambush, my bed is calling me, and I'm oh so sleepy... I'm not sure if you just bored me to it or if I am physically tired... oh well we'll see.

But I did decide to check out your dictionary site.

#

1. Unable to read and write.
well we know how well you write... badly, but you obviously seem incapable of reading an getting the point of the posted article.

2. Having little or no formal education.
Can't speak to this one... although I have my douts.

#

1. Marked by inferiority to an expected standard of familiarity with language and literature.
Well I'd certainly mark your grammer an sentence structure as inferior. But then again I'm just a monkey so I don't know. (monkey still can't get over that, what are you an old woman or something?)

2. Violating prescribed standards of speech or writing.
Well you're from quebec this is pretty much a givin.


# Ignorant of the fundamentals of a given art or branch of knowledge: musically illiterate.
Hmm well you are illiterate of the current speeds of the pentium 4... and the average price points of these uber machines you're comparing the G5 to.

But again my lovely king sized be calls me to sleep the sleep of uhh... something that sleeps.

Normally I'd just reply to this post with a big

but.. oh well I'll make an exception.

I made ONE mistake in my post. ONE. You make what? An average of 50 per post? Or something?

And my spelling thing is set to French, so I don't actually use it when writing in English.

Can't speak to this one... although I have my douts.

What?
You can't speak to this one, although you have your douts?

Sorry man, try again.

Well you're from quebec this is pretty much a givin.

a what?

And you're from Manitoba, you're not in position to say that.

[pooka]

Disclaimer:
I am an idiot.
I have nothing constructive to add to any conversation.


Face is sooooo kicking all of your asses.

[Spliffdaddy]

word.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by ambush:
Anyway, you speak like someone with a great education.

I'm uneducated. I ain't stupid.

Superchook is the inverse.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Can't speak to this one... although I have my douts.

Did you mean donuts?

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
Can't speak to this one... although I have my donuts.

Yeah that makes sense.

edit: Sorry I mean "scents".

[AlbertWu]

REALITY CHECK: school doesn't teach kids how to use computers ANYWAY.

I have kids that have GONE through our school's (the high school of the silicon valley) CS101 course, and all they know how to use is word and IE (which are identical.)

I could drop the mac users in front of a PC and they wouldn't know what the **** to do.

I could drop the PC users in front of a PC and they wouldn't know what the **** to do either.

our school is slowly switching over to PCs cause our IT head switched a couple years back. the medial labs still have macs though, thank god.

anyway, yeah. kids don't learn how to use comps in school. teaching them macs won't hurt them in the workplace, and might even give them a different perspective.

[Adam Betts]

[drmcnutt]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:



Sorry did you just say "Did I lost you?" I think you did loose me with that last grammer slip up....

So forgive me if I don't really care what you think about my spelling

But any school that would waist their money on a G5 right now should be shot.

Perhaps like I say, you should prevent people from finding out how little you know... but not showing them

"Loose" should be "lose"-

"waist" should be "waste"

Just SHOWING you the proper terms...spelling these words shouldn't be difficult for someone with a dictionary in hand.

DRM

[sniffer]

This is a bit no sense. You should teach kids what you can do with a computer, not what a computer can do to a kid.. err..

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by drmcnutt:
Just SHOWING you the proper terms...spelling these words shouldn't be difficult for someone with a dictionary in hand.

That's no dictionary in his hand.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
REALITY CHECK. Education IS to prepare kids for the workforce. This ain't Utopia.

And Apple Macs don't "stimulate the imagination" or "encourage them to think". It's a machine.

If anything you have to think more using Windows.

In the article posted is that there is a lot of pressure from parents that their kids should learn Windows - using the same argument as Face Ache: "Education IS to prepare kids for the workforce. This ain't Utopia." - not realizing that it doesn't matter which platform of computers you use. While this sure ain't Utopia, this ain't Hell either. Parents and Face Aches alike are missing the point: computers are tools that do the same thing. Regardless of brand or OS. The difference between them is in most cases merely superficial (although MS sometimes makes things look more clumsy than they should be) and learning to use other platforms based on one's knowledge of one platform is easy. Especially since the competitors of Microsith are actively copying their OS's features and look and feel - certain Linux distros are downright CLONING the MS look and feel.

Regardless, NONE of us (25 years or older) learned to use Windows OS at school - yet 97% of us uses it today with ease. We used DOS, BBC's, Apple ]['s, Commodore's, Sinclair's... we used all sorts of machines and learned just as well - if not BETTER - how to use computers than the 6 to 20 year olds are doing today with a monolithic computer platform to work on. It is NO blessing to learn exclusively on the Windows platform or any other platform..

In schools computers are IMO analogous with books and teachers. We can't learn everything we need from having the same teacher all our academic carrier nor will we learn everything we need from the same author. Education is all about developing our mind and body. No one thing, man, book, institution or philosophy can fully prepare us for life. None of us are alike and we NEED to see more than one side of things.

As for the practical part TCO is the same or less for Macintosh machines compared to Wintels, Macs are not getting the worm of the week => no messing up the school because of some stupid program and a lot of stupid users... --- still I'm preaching to the choir here so I'll stop.

Here at my university computers are predominantly Wintels. You still have the choice of just about anything else. The network is driven by a group of Sun servers and Macs are welcome as well as Linux. In an institute of higher education, where people are striving to not only learn something, but to be on the cutting edge, no one is forcing Wintels upon you if you don't want to use them. Use the tool you like - for in the end that is what they are and it is you the USER that actually matters.

Now I don't want to hear any more bullcrap coming from you Face Ache about this. You are a sensible guy, but I'm not sure if you are just trolling or having an x-tra cynical day. But anyway. Have a nice one and stop trying to put the sense into us zealots.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Blah blah blah.

Yeah, again nice sentiments, but IT admins in schools are smarter to buy Windows boxes IMHO. If you're introducing kids to computers it's better to introduce them to the computers 95% of the market uses, don't you think?

Oh no, you "think different."

Did I mention that a friend I had around here last weekend is the computer teacher at my old high school? He was looking at my Mac like it had just landed. He was afraid to touch it.

BTW: I'm talking about primary and secondary schooling. If you're at Uni you can please yourself.

[sniffer]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Yeah, again nice sentiments, but IT admins in schools are smarter to buy Windows boxes IMHO. If you're introducing kids to computers it's better to introduce them to the computers 95% of the market uses, don't you think?

No their argument is to use the same platform all over b/c it's easier to run support on a single platform. It's irrelevant which platform for the IT stab. What matters is that they use Office all over, and the IT jerk have simply to much power (and lack of knowledge in some cases).

[sniffer]

Oh, and for the end user it's basically irrelevant what platform is forced on them. The basic user on a public machine needs to know how to create a document, use e-mail, and find that stupid "e" icon if they are on windows. For them the learning curve is basically on how to use the applications, not the OS underneath. I have plenty of examples on that. My mother use PCs everyday, but she can't hardly use the Internet as that's a area she never has used before. She knows how to use what ever app is the default for her tasks, and that's all it takes. I worked until now on a PC support team and I tell you, 97% of the callers are completely clueless about anything outside their applications they use daily. When it comes to UI on the applications they use, it's basically irrelevant as well. They used app like PAS, which looks exactly like something from the eighties. And the user interface is terrible, but that's not the problem for the end user. They get use to it sooner or later. So my conclusion is that what ever the rest of the world is using is irrelevant.

[Hawkeye_a]

I hate take the role of the Apple 'fanboy' here, but i guess im not the first. Just a few points that need to be mentioned....
-if Apple had 90+% marketshare today....the field we now know as 'IT' (CIS,MIS,etc...degrees) wouldnt exist.
-Apple makes a great product out of the box...which means you dont need an IT department and tech-nerds to service and help u get the thing to do what it was meant to do. Now apply this on the corportae level.
-MS sells a crappy product and this creats a completely new industry....'IT'.
-Now that MS has 90+% of the marketshare...guess where the next genertaion of 'techies' will most likely find jobs. hence give them what they want to learn.
-Bad managment at Apple since the 80s is to blame for overpricing the products and dooming the platform to a niche from the get go. what can Apple do now to help the situation ?.....exactly what it's doing now..... Advertising campaign, 'Real' stores and great 'consumer' oriented products (ala imac, iBook, iPod, etc)......it'll take 5-10 years to see the effects though.

Cheers

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Yeah, again nice sentiments, but IT admins in schools are smarter to buy Windows boxes IMHO. If you're introducing kids to computers it's better to introduce them to the computers 95% of the market uses, don't you think?

No. Technology changes extremely rapidly. Windows XP will be a wolly mammoth in 5-7 years. So will Mac OS X 10.2. It will all be ancient history. Neither OS will look or behave even nearly alike. I mean, go look at System 7 and Windows 3.1.

The practical skills of learning how to adapt to and learn technology is what counts. If you understand the fundamentals to technology, you can get by in Mac or Windows in a second. Think of the changeover to Mac OS X. It was a huge leap, but people made it all right.

That can be done on either a Mac or a PC. A and a network of Macs tends to be more stable and less costly to maintain.

At my college, we have Macs, PCs, and Linux boxes in every lab. People feel comfortable switching between them for word processing, e-mail, web browsing, etc. Some projects demand one or the other, but it's not a big deal. The Macs tend to be the ones that don't crash all the time, though.

[blackbird_1.0]

pooka yor sig, lol, hilarious

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
And you just called ME illiterit? Not only is that void of any wit. I also can't even figure out exactly what it means... are you calling me a fool?

If you couldn't figure out what that sentence meant, then yes, you are indeed illiterate (note the spelling). And "void" is a noun. You're looking for "devoid".

If you're in a situation where somebody - hell, almost everybody here - whose native language is NOT English has better language skills than you, whose native language IS supposedly English, and you're geering up to go to colidge, it's time for a reality check and some serious hard work.

-s*

[ndptal85]

Hawkeye, no offense but this is the year 2003. The PC hard to use/Mac easy to use argument died when Windows XP came out and made PC's braindead easy to use and Mac OS X came out and actually made Macs less easy to use. If Apple had a 90% marketshare there would STILL be an IT field. You think the existence of the Macintosh negates the need for computer science? Lay off the crack pipe! Macs aren't that easy to use. They're just Different. I've seen folks get just as stumped on a Mac as they have on a PC. How do I use the Chooser? Rebuild the desktop? Zap the PRAM? WTF? Enable root user!??!??!!? OMG I THOUGHT MACS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE EASY!!!!!!!

First of all if Apple had 90% marketshare then OS X would have never been developed. We'd all still be stuck on that horrible co-operating multitasking freeze every 10 minutes monstrosity that is known as the Classic Mac OS. Bleh no thanks.

As for using anything other than Windows in schools, I say its foolish to use Macs at this point. You end up making your kid learn a system that in all likelyhood he'll never see again in his professional life. Each year Macs become more and more niche and some big software company drops Mac support. All the important apps come out on the PC first. All the best online services are on the PC first. All the best games are on the PC first, etc. Being a Mac user is like being a second class citizen. We pay more for less performance and for less applications just so we can be a part of this schizophrenic community. I'll keep buying Macs until the day that I die but thats just because I like most other Mac users am criminally insane. That type of insanity does not exist amongst the wider public and thats why most logical folks buy a PC.

So in the end I guess Macs are like luxury British Cars. Take Bentley for example. $300k car, hard to fix and breaks down a lot(Macs - I'm not saying Macs break down a lot just that they fit the very expensive/low value analogy). $34k Toyota Camry dependable as all heck and cheap to boot(PC).

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Nice sentiments but how many people do you know that write poetry for a living? Or are actors? (actors are generally cab drivers and waiters anyway). Now how many office workers do you know?

Did you even understand my post? Of course not many people write poetry for a living; that's my point.

We teach young people to do and appreciate many things. Some of those become directly applicable to their future careers. The rest (hopefully) serve to make them well-rounded, open-minded adults. The number of kids who actually grow up to be poets is irrelevant. My point is that education is far, far more than vocational training.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by pooka:
Disclaimer:
I am an idiot.
I have nothing constructive to add to any conversation.


Face is sooooo kicking all of your asses.

Do elaborate.