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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > No "water ripples" in Dashboard

No "water ripples" in Dashboard
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fmalloy
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May 1, 2005, 11:56 PM
 
I don't see the "water ripples" when I drop a new Dashboard widget in my iMac G4. What's weird is that when I click the "i" icon, I see the "flip", but in my 500MHz G4 Powerbook I don't even see that.

I don't see the ripples in either machine. How do I turn this on? I already reviewed the Dashboard System Preferences.

What's going on?

Frank
     
Ricky
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May 2, 2005, 12:03 AM
 
I think it has to do with your graphics card. I don't see ripples on my Rev. A 12" PowerBook.
     
Mr. Blur
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May 2, 2005, 12:14 AM
 
yes, it is the graphics card....have a look at apple's core image page for details on what cards are supported for those effects....
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Phrogman
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May 2, 2005, 12:53 AM
 
Yea...I don't get the Ripple either and I have a Geforce4 Ti 4600 128mb. according to Apple's site, the ripple effect is done with Quartz extreme:

"Powerful graphics give Quartz Extreme the power to display Mac OS X features � such as drop shadows and ripple effects � seamlessly."
Link

Quartz extreme only requires a Geforce 2 or better.

Also, I downloaded the demo of Imaginator from Stone Software. It uses core image to do effects and my computer runs them with no problem.

I don't understand!
     
jasonsRX7
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May 2, 2005, 01:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by fmalloy
I don't see the "water ripples" when I drop a new Dashboard widget in my iMac G4.
Lucky you!
     
bpd115
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May 2, 2005, 01:43 AM
 
Ripple effect is done via core image, not Quartz. Core Image requires a card that supports pixel shader 2.0 and in the windows world is "Direct X9" compliant. Yes I know that there is no direct x in the mac world, however if the GPU supports Direct X9 under it's PC counterpart, than it should support core image. The GeForce 4 TI4600 is DX 8.1 and not core image compatible.

Look in the system profile and there is a section which will tell you if core image is supported.
     
Apfhex
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May 2, 2005, 01:58 AM
 
Yeah, you graphics card has to support Core Image. I don't see them either (and wasn't expecting to), thought I do get to see the nifty RSS screensaver.
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Randman
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May 2, 2005, 02:43 AM
 
I have all the eye candy in my rev c PB, but I don't see the ripple in my mini, though it does the flip and the RSS Visualizer just fine.

To be honest, after a few days on both machines, I can take or leave the ripple. It's cool the first couple of times but who cares? afterward.

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Chuckit
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May 2, 2005, 03:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phrogman
Yea...I don't get the Ripple either and I have a Geforce4 Ti 4600 128mb. according to Apple's site, the ripple effect is done with Quartz extreme:

"Powerful graphics give Quartz Extreme the power to display Mac OS X features � such as drop shadows and ripple effects � seamlessly."
Link
It does not say the Dashboard ripple is rendered using Quartz Extreme. I'm honestly not sure what they're talking about there, but it's quite obvious that it requires a Core Image-supporting card to get the ripple, not just Quartz Extreme. Maybe Quartz Extreme has become PR speech for "graphics technology in general." I don't know.

Originally Posted by Phrogman
Also, I downloaded the demo of Imaginator from Stone Software. It uses core image to do effects and my computer runs them with no problem.

I don't understand!
There are two sides to Core Image. One is Core Image itself, which automatically tailors itself to whatever hardware it's running on. This is what Stone's program is using. The other flavor is Core Video, which applies Core Image filters to moving images in real time. This (from what I understand of it) will only work if you have a GPU capable of accelerating the effects, because otherwise they wouldn't be guaranteed to be real-time, and that's pretty pointless.
( Last edited by Chuckit; May 2, 2005 at 03:10 AM. )
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goMac
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May 2, 2005, 03:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
There are two sides to Core Image. One is Core Image itself, which automatically tailors itself to whatever hardware it's running on. This is what Stone's program is using. The other flavor is Core Video, which applies Core Image filters to moving images in real time. This (from what I understand of it) will only work if you have a GPU capable of accelerating the effects, because otherwise they wouldn't be guaranteed to be real-time, and that's pretty pointless.
I don't think thats the issue. The Dashboard ripple effect would be drawn using CoreImage. The problem is, if you're not running a CoreImage GPU, CoreImage is run on your CPU. This is why Imaginator runs, but it's just working off the CPU. Apple has obviously opted to not do the ripple effect if your CPU is used for CoreImage instead of your GPU. Perhaps it was slow enough on CPU's to be considered too intrusive.
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GORDYmac
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May 2, 2005, 08:51 AM
 
The only thing it appears I'm missing is that ripple effect in Dashboard. Dashboard is awesome! QuickSilver with NVidia 4MX here, I'm glad I didn't buy or mod a new card.
     
Chuckit
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May 2, 2005, 09:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by goMac
I don't think thats the issue. The Dashboard ripple effect would be drawn using CoreImage. The problem is, if you're not running a CoreImage GPU, CoreImage is run on your CPU. This is why Imaginator runs, but it's just working off the CPU. Apple has obviously opted to not do the ripple effect if your CPU is used for CoreImage instead of your GPU. Perhaps it was slow enough on CPU's to be considered too intrusive.
Why wasn't it the issue when I said it was because it takes too much CPU power to do real-time Core Image filtering of live video?
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turtle777
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May 2, 2005, 09:53 AM
 
I don't need ripples. Just want Dashboard to continously refresh its content in the background, not only when I activate it.

-t
     
Mithras
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May 2, 2005, 10:25 AM
 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../2005/word.png
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( Last edited by tooki; May 2, 2005 at 12:43 PM. )
     
Chuckit
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May 2, 2005, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777
I don't need ripples. Just want Dashboard to continously refresh its content in the background, not only when I activate it.
Welcome to the vast minority.
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Hi I'm Ben
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May 2, 2005, 10:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777
I don't need ripples. Just want Dashboard to continously refresh its content in the background, not only when I activate it.

-t
I suppose, but the last thing I want is for Dashboard to run with all those widgets in the background. I much prefer it pause while I'm not using it. That 3 second delay killing you eh?
     
Spykes424
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May 2, 2005, 11:15 AM
 
i have the 20" iMac G4 with an Nvidia Geforce 5200, but on the apple site, it says it supports the 5200 on the go and the 5200 ultra, so will mine work or not?
     
Don Pickett
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May 2, 2005, 11:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777
I don't need ripples. Just want Dashboard to continously refresh its content in the background, not only when I activate it.

-t
No, you don't. You don't want umpteen apps running in the background, updating continuously. Polling every 15 minutes, maybe, but not continuously.
     
ursus
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May 2, 2005, 12:24 PM
 
It would be nice to be able to customize Dashboard a little more. Personally, I'd like to skip the ripple effect, it is actually quite choppy on my 1.5GHz 12" PB.

As for background updating: I would like to configure each widget separately. But maybe that goes against the overall simplicity of widgets...
     
turtle777
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May 2, 2005, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Don Pickett
No, you don't. You don't want umpteen apps running in the background, updating continuously. Polling every 15 minutes, maybe, but not continuously.
YES, I DO. You don't tell me what I need.

Konfabulator can do continuous background updates without jamming up the system, it even worked on my iBook 500 MHz G3 without problems. And now you're telling my Dashboard can't do it. BS...

Take the weather widget: it just sucks to have to activate it, and then wait 3-5 seconds for the update. Konfab was displaying it all the time in the background on the desktop. Far more useful, if you ask me...
And other widgets: how about a simpl preference setting the update cycle. Too much to ask for ?

I know this is OT because this thread is about water ripples. WATER RIPPLES ? WTF ? Doesn't do anything but eat processor time. I bet doizens of developers worked on that farkin ripple for months... AAaarrrrgh...

Ok, I'm done. [/rant]

-t
     
DylanG
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May 2, 2005, 01:23 PM
 
If you go to "About This Mac" in the Apple menu, click "More Info", and then look in the video section it will tell you if your video card supports CoreImage and QuartzExtreme.
     
ashtoash
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May 2, 2005, 01:38 PM
 
What do you mean you dont' want this happening? This is already happening. All those widgets you download can update whenever the hell they want. Download like 10-15, then go to use the process watcher.

What the poster means is there shouldn't be a delay in the loading of widgets, when he clicks it. This should only happen after boot and sometimes sleep. It's using webkit without any real caching, (you'd have to do it in the widget) apple knows about the delay but didn't bother to do anything about it before shipping. It was planned to be "fixed", Look for zero delay in a upcoming release.
     
goMac
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May 2, 2005, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Why wasn't it the issue when I said it was because it takes too much CPU power to do real-time Core Image filtering of live video?
I said that the Dashboard ripple does not use video at all. It's all just image based CoreImage stuff.
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CatOne
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May 2, 2005, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777
YES, I DO. You don't tell me what I need.

Konfabulator can do continuous background updates without jamming up the system, it even worked on my iBook 500 MHz G3 without problems. And now you're telling my Dashboard can't do it. BS...

Take the weather widget: it just sucks to have to activate it, and then wait 3-5 seconds for the update. Konfab was displaying it all the time in the background on the desktop. Far more useful, if you ask me...
And other widgets: how about a simpl preference setting the update cycle. Too much to ask for ?

I know this is OT because this thread is about water ripples. WATER RIPPLES ? WTF ? Doesn't do anything but eat processor time. I bet doizens of developers worked on that farkin ripple for months... AAaarrrrgh...

Ok, I'm done. [/rant]

-t
Well, I just checked the ripple effect with Quartz Debug. Looks like it takes about 15%-20% CPU for 2 seconds. It does spike the Quartz Extreme meter to about 70% for the same period, but note this is from Core Image, so it doesn't affect the CPU at all -- it's totally processed on the video card. So what's the care?
     
mmintler
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May 2, 2005, 03:22 PM
 
I can't find where it says if core image is supported. I haven't upgraded yet...I think I'll wait for the fist update.

I have a 1.33 Powerbook (not sure what Rev) bought it just before the latest updates...
Will my PB support the Ripple effect?

Thanks
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Mithras
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May 2, 2005, 03:23 PM
 
What I want is for Dashboard widgets to automatically run and update 3 seconds BEFORE I press the hotkey.
     
Don Pickett
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May 2, 2005, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777
YES, I DO. You don't tell me what I need.

Konfabulator can do continuous background updates without jamming up the system, it even worked on my iBook 500 MHz G3 without problems. And now you're telling my Dashboard can't do it. BS...
Konfabulator killed my Pismo with 1 GB or RAM �*ate up memory and processor cycles like crazy. Konfab was notoriously heavy on resrouces, which is one of the reasons interest in it leveled off.

Now, I don't want things I'm not using eating up processor cycles. I use WeatherPop, which updates every 15 minutes and has a miniscule memory and CPU footprint.
     
Phrogman
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May 2, 2005, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mithras
What I want is for Dashboard widgets to automatically run and update 3 seconds BEFORE I press the hotkey.
Look for this in the 10.4.1 update.
     
mitchell_pgh
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May 2, 2005, 03:39 PM
 
I think the ripple is designed to take your eye away from the 1-2 second delay
     
Grrr
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May 2, 2005, 04:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777
YES, I DO. You don't tell me what I need.

Konfabulator can do continuous background updates without jamming up the system, it even worked on my iBook 500 MHz G3 without problems. And now you're telling my Dashboard can't do it. BS...

Take the weather widget: it just sucks to have to activate it, and then wait 3-5 seconds for the update. Konfab was displaying it all the time in the background on the desktop. Far more useful, if you ask me...
And other widgets: how about a simpl preference setting the update cycle. Too much to ask for ?

I know this is OT because this thread is about water ripples. WATER RIPPLES ? WTF ? Doesn't do anything but eat processor time. I bet doizens of developers worked on that farkin ripple for months... AAaarrrrgh...

Ok, I'm done. [/rant]

-t
Carry on using Konfabulator then. Nothing to stop you.
Personally, I didnt like it, as it ate more and more CPU power over time to the point that it was best left turned off.
Dashboard is brand new though, it is less responsive granted, but its early days yet..
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turtle777
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May 2, 2005, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Grrr
Carry on using Konfabulator then. Nothing to stop you.
Personally, I didnt like it, as it ate more and more CPU power over time to the point that it was best left turned off.
Dashboard is brand new though, it is less responsive granted, but its early days yet..
Let's hope for it. I really don't think waiting 3-5 seconds for updates everytime you open it is a good idea. Just doesn't feel right.

It's like with the slow, unresponsive finder: actually, not a big deal, but annoying and psychologically giving the impression of an unrespoonsive, slow system.

-t
     
VTJustinB
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May 2, 2005, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777
YES, I DO. You don't tell me what I need.

Konfabulator can do continuous background updates without jamming up the system, it even worked on my iBook 500 MHz G3 without problems. And now you're telling my Dashboard can't do it. BS...

Take the weather widget: it just sucks to have to activate it, and then wait 3-5 seconds for the update. Konfab was displaying it all the time in the background on the desktop. Far more useful, if you ask me...
And other widgets: how about a simpl preference setting the update cycle. Too much to ask for ?

I know this is OT because this thread is about water ripples. WATER RIPPLES ? WTF ? Doesn't do anything but eat processor time. I bet doizens of developers worked on that farkin ripple for months... AAaarrrrgh...

Ok, I'm done. [/rant]

-t
The fact that the widgets go dormant when hidden is the developer's choice, not Dashboard...

If for some unforseen reason you want your widgets sucking resources while they're hidden then you can change that yourself.

The widget.onhide property assigns a function callback to be executed whenever the Dashboard layer is hidden. Most developers use this function to put their widgets in a quiescent state.

And yes there's nothing stopping the developer from making this behavior an option in the preference pane of their widget, but that's up to the individual developers to implement.
     
   
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