[epsionbass]

Ok, guys i know this thread has been done before but i have a very specific question. Pretty much, money is darn tight for me at the moment, i can't go more than $1,299, so i am going refurbished off of apples website.

For the same price i am looking at:
a) 12"pb 1.5ghz superdrive 512ram
b) 15"pb 1.33ghz combo 265ram

they apparently have the same video card because they're refurbished, and either way ill be maxing the memory at some point.

That being said, number one thing to me is portablity. i commute to school, with a long train ride, so i want something i can pretty much have on me whenever.

My main purpose is for writing papers, scripts, other forms of creative thinking and what not, and this might lead one to believe that an ibook would work.

However, i am also a film student, and i use a lot of FCP. However i don't have a mac now meaning all my work is done on the school computer. And i would like something that i can do FCP on.

Keeping this in mind i know the 12 inch screen wouldnt be the best for video editing. But if i work at home i can plug in a monitor and work off that i guess. Would i get a faster system for editing if i had the 1.5ghz maxed to 1.25gigs ram, or the 1.33ghz that maxes out to 2gigs of ram cause its 15in? I can also live without the superdrive because my computer at home has a dvd burner, and so do the comps at school.

Anyone's input would be great. But i guess i'm leaning towards the 12 because of portablity. And it would limit me to work on the important stuff like papers and scripts because of not having a bigger monitor (i'm getting this because i'm trying to work around add and i find i work better away from home where i am easily distracted). And the play time (fcp, photoshop) i would be at home with a bigger monitor.

[Tesseract]

It sounds to me like you've decided on the 12" already, and are just waiting for us to confirm your decision. I say go for it!

Being able to get the 2 gigs of RAM eventually would be nice, especially for FCP. But 1.25 gig is a lot, and the fact that the 12" comes with 512 instead of 256 is a plus. (You'd want to upgrade the 15" to at 512MB right away.)

[havocidal]

don't mean to be a wet blanket... but the 12" has only 1024 by 768 resolution... and that would mean its gonna be really painful using fcp with all the toolbars...

is a laptop a must for u? if it isn't i'd recommend the new imac g5... the resolution is defnitiely good enough and fast enough to use fcp since fcp is gonna run significantly slower on a g4 chip...

[Moon Potato]

I was in almost the exact same situation as you until about a week ago... my answer was to borrow $800 and get the new 15", since I'm not going to be able to afford another upgrade until well after I'm done with school.
If you're absolutely stuck at $1299, then I'd go with the 15". The widescreen format and higher resolution will be a big help when working with FCP. Working in 1024x768 is really miserable for pretty much any video/graphics program.

[iREZ]

if it were me, id go with the powerbook...faster clock speed, faster hard drive, vram is crappier but hey..its ok for coreimage. only thing the 15" has goin for it is the widescreen, higher resolution, fw 800, and pc slot...but the 12" to me seems like the better deal. if your gonna do alot of FCP, even the 15" screen could feel cramped so i would suggest an extra monitor to span on to when needed. but then again, im a big big big fan of the 12" and have gone through my entire college life with one and thoroughly enjoy it.

[hickey]

I use my 15" with FCP, and a little bit of photshop, I played around on my friends 12" doing some editing, and it was terrible after being used to the better resolution. My vote is for the 15", but you'll be happy with either one you decide on.

[Darthmaul4114]

if you can manage to get some extra money i'd definately go for the new ones, but with your two choices i would probably get the 15" the resolution is much better, and i dont think 170mhz will matter toooo much in the long run. and since you're going to eventually max out the memory that should drasticly improve it's performance.

i agree though with havocidol. do you NEED to have a laptop? because if i needed a machine for that cheap with FCP usability i would get the imac. i know right now my school's bookstore has a sale on all of the last generation imacs. you can get a 1.8ghz G5 17" for like $850, or the 2.0ghz G5 20" for $1150. pretty darn good i think, but thats just at my school. your school probably has something like it though.

i have a 15" and the resolution is pretty nice to work with photoshop and FCP and stuff, tho it is seeming to get smaller as i work with bigger and better things. which is why im going to buy a 2405fpw soon

[Bendyrabbit]

Originally Posted by epsionbass

Ok, guys i know this thread has been done before but i have a very specific question. Pretty much, money is darn tight for me at the moment, i can't go more than $1,299, so i am going refurbished off of apples website.

For the same price i am looking at:
a) 12"pb 1.5ghz superdrive 512ram
b) 15"pb 1.33ghz combo 265ram

I just received today my refurbished 1.5Ghz 15" Powerbook with Superdrive ($1,499), which is replacing my two year old 1Ghz 12" Superdrive Powerbook. I am glad I made the change. I am also doing video editing, using Final Cut Express, and it's going to be so much easier. If you want my advice, get the 15". It is so much bigger and brighter than the 12". I couldn't stand the relatively cramped, dimmer screen of the 12". I'm going to lose some portability, certainly, but right now I will gladly do so in order to have this bigger and better screen real estate.

By the way, if you're set on a 12", let me know. I'm selling mine for $1,000. 768 MB of RAM.

[mrmister]

iBook. The PowerBooks are overpriced and underpowered in their current form.

[mduell]

They do not have the same video card (the 15" is much better), and in my opinion the 12" does not have enough pixels to be useful.

[photoeditor]

Apple sells the new 15 inch 1.5GHz powerbook for 1,499 educational, while the refurb goes for $1,449 but there's no educational discount on refurbs. Go into the refurbs and deals section and click on Sale in the green toolbar at the top of the page. In your situation that's what I'd recommend -- the bigger screen and with the Radeon 9600 you know you can properly support Core Image AND an external monitor. It is a much faster card than the GeForce 5200 in the refurbs you mention. And only $200 more than the computers you're considering. With Aperture not supported by the GeForce 5200 in the 12" powerbook, I wonder just how serious Apple is about that particular card. If you go the 12" route be sure the video apps are supported.

I'd add that the above price on the 1.5GHz is for an 80GB hard drive and 512MB of RAM as standard.

[jmgriff]

An extra display can easily be connected to the 12" powerbook, even a cheap 17" LCD will provide much more screen estate then the 15" when spanned. I use a 12" with an extra display and FCP and it works well, plus you get the benefits of greater portability when you want it.Final Cut Pro currently doesn't place hige demands on the GPU and the fx5200 in the 12" supports Motion (just about), which I would guess is more relevant to a film student then Aperture. Having said that, I think the 12" is currently not good value for money new. There are reasons to consider the 15" - the widescreen is nice, you can add extra firewire via the cardbus slot and the FW800 is worth having, even if not strictly necessary. Most crucially it will support more RAM ... 2GB vs 1.25GB in the 12".

[CaptainHaddock]

Just to throw in my two bits: if you're considering an iBook as well, keep in mind that the Powerbooks have DVI (for better external display connectivity) and Firewire 800 (in case you need to capture video). iBooks only have VGA and Firewire 400.

I think the new 15" Powerbook with an educational discount would make a very decent portable editing machine.

[jmgriff]

I just re-read the first post and noticed your comment about the train ride. Before the 12" I had a Titanium Powerbook with the 15" display .... and I can say that the smaller powerbook is *significantly* easier to commute with. Also, if you are against getting an extra display, the 12" iBook might be worth considering. Regardless of which model you get you'll need more memory and an external FW HD, doing serious work with Final Cut (capturing, rendering) on the internal drive isn't a good option (it is OK for lght editing, though).

[ism]

The 15" is really better for video editing (PC Card slot for firewire bus, bigger screen, FW800, gigabit ethernet). However, saying that it's no good to you if you can't use it.

In the UK where the trains are cramped and small (well up here anyway) I can't guarantee a table seat so I know I can (just) work on a 12" in the normal seats. A 15" no way.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

Just to throw in my two bits: if you're considering an iBook as well, keep in mind that the Powerbooks have DVI (for better external display connectivity) and Firewire 800 (in case you need to capture video). iBooks only have VGA and Firewire 400.

<ignorant>Given that the highest DV standard is only 100Mbps (DVCPROHD), why does it matter if you have 400Mbps or 800Mbps Firewire?</ignorant>

[motoxpress]

You would need FW800 to get reasonable throughput to external sata enclosures or other speddy drives. If you are only doing DV25 then FW800 will matter less.

-mx

[MovieCutter]

If I were a cynic...(which I often am)...I would advise you to drop out of film school and buy a book on filmmaking, then take the money you would spend on tuition and spend it on a Powerbook, a camera, and some other gear and go out and make movies. But seeing as I'm not feeling TOO cynical today, I'd say go with the 15" regardless. Even if you can't afford it, wait a little longer or put it on a credit card or beg and plead from your parents. As a former film student myself, I'd say the 15" is the way to go, in fact I am editing on one right now. It's wider, larger screen, Firewire 800, graphics card, and overall features are worth the extra financial burden and/or wait. Not to mention it will last you longer. Final Cut Pro and Motion feel especially cramped on a 12" screen.

[epsionbass]

Without really wanting to get into it, film school in my eyes is pretty much paying a lot for a rental house, there i have all the lights i need, all the vidcams, all the film cameras i need. I have a group of mentors that have gone through the industry, some of them have writen the aformentioned books you speak of. I have individual workspace where i can edit my film, i have private computers where i can edit on FCP or avid, without worrying about the distractions of home. I have plenty of peers to know what i am up against, work on colaborations, get inspired by, and to have as future connections when i am in the industry later. If working outside of film school works for you thats great, its not about expecting them to teach you how to make a hollywood blockbuster, its about having a whole bunch of resources at your disposal, and a lot of people in my school that think its a waste of time, expect everything to be handed to them on a silver plater, and they aren't going to go far. But i digress, we both have our opinions, i respect yours, and your way does work for a lot of people.

That being said, i think im going to go for either the refurbished 1.5 15" pb (1499) or the refurb.1.67 15" for 100 more. with my student discount a new one is still 1799, so thats way out of my price range. My problem is that these are both before the upgrades and dont have the 128 graphics card, they both come with the 64. Being that the graphics card for the old and new is a ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 only different models would i later be able to replace the 64 with the 128? im betting already that for some stupid reason i wont be able to do it. someone please explain why?

[epsionbass]

fix this double post stuff. it sucks.

[epsionbass]

ummm why doesnt it bump?

[Moon Potato]

Originally Posted by epsionbass

That being said, i think im going to go for either the refurbished 1.5 15" pb (1499) or the refurb.1.67 15" for 100 more. with my student discount a new one is still 1799, so thats way out of my price range. My problem is that these are both before the upgrades and dont have the 128 graphics card, they both come with the 64. Being that the graphics card for the old and new is a ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 only different models would i later be able to replace the 64 with the 128? im betting already that for some stupid reason i wont be able to do it. someone please explain why?

The GPU's on powerbooks are soldered to the motherboard, so you can't upgrade them at all... although the extra 64MB of VRAM won't be too much of a performance booster unless you're driving a large external display with it (probably the biggest reason apple included it as standard on all the latest models is to make them compatible with the 30" cinema display).

Good luck at film school, too... I just transfered into a film/video program as well, and am really enjoying the experience thus far.

[motoxpress]

I would not sweat the extra 64mb on the PB. The G4 itself will become more of a limitation before the missing 64mb will.

...and if you have the money for a 30" Cinema display, you should be buying a G5 anyway.


-mx

[mrmister]

"If I were a cynic...(which I often am)...I would advise you to drop out of film school and buy a book on filmmaking, then take the money you would spend on tuition and spend it on a Powerbook, a camera, and some other gear and go out and make movies."

This is also an excellent formula for having no connections in an industry that is centered entirely around connections. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.

[ginoledesma]

I commute on a daily basis (bus/train) and I have a sweet time with my 12" PowerBook. The size and weight are acceptable, and even on a crowded day, I can still tap away on my laptop. I doubt that I'd get enough elbow room for a 15" as that would cause my seatmate quite a bit of discomfort.

However, the problem with the 12" is its screen brightness. On a bright, sunny day, I can barely make out what's on screen even at maximum brightness. I usually have to squint or position the screen at very awkward angles (or just try to get my "spot" in the ride that has sufficient shade). I don't know about the 15" PB (I don't have one), but I'm told that they have a much brighter display.

If you think you'll be doing a lot of work while commuting (in motion) and your ride doesn't have a lot of elbow room, I'd vote for the PB 12" as that can get more "work" done. But if you have sufficient space, spend a bit of time idle (waiting for the ride), and can generally move about, the 15" sounds like a better choice because of the screen real estate you're working with.

Lastly, though (on personal preference), I find the 15" just too heavy and wieldy for me. The 12" alone can get heavy what with the accessories I bring.

[epsionbass]

Haha, well heres the update, after more begging and pleading i am getting a brand spanking new 15' powerbook (i will be paying back my parents forever). thanks for the input gino about the train situation. I already monopolize the seat situation due to im 6'4 meaning i have to spread my legs out to sit in the seats. So the 15 will have no problem in my lap i believe.

[ism]

Oh well then, yeah, If you've got to fit 6' 4" of you in then I'm sure you can accomodate the 15". Cool. Enjoy!