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SirCastor · Oct 7, 2006, 02:27 PM

Where is the freakin' iTunes download! I need to see this

(I don't have cable. I'd really like to see a season pass for this show...)

Chuckit · Oct 7, 2006, 02:31 PM

I don't think signing that document shows he is on a path to good. He condemned to death hundreds of people who were already doing something so that he could have some vague chance to do something in the future — which, if that scene is any indication, he'll also pass up as soon as it gets dangerous so he can "fight another day." That's been Baltar's MO all along: He's perfectly willing to screw people over, but he has to delude himself into believing his actions are somehow noble.

goMac · Oct 7, 2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I don't think signing that document shows he is on a path to good. He condemned to death hundreds of people who were already doing something so that he could have some vague chance to do something in the future — which, if that scene is any indication, he'll also pass up as soon as it gets dangerous so he can "fight another day." That's been Baltar's MO all along: He's perfectly willing to screw people over, but he has to delude himself into believing his actions are somehow noble.

Baltar stalled with a gun to his head. The Cylons were threatening to kill him, and he would even sign it until he was poked and prodded by imaginary six. Before, Baltar never really any qualms about doing this sort of thing. This time, he seemed to have major qualms about signing the document.

Oversoul · Oct 7, 2006, 03:02 PM

I was beginning to lose some confidence in BSG after a somewhat randomized second season, but my faith is completely restored. Science fiction in recent years has been all about technobabble and deus ex machinas saving the day at the last minute. BSG, however, is science fiction as it should be -- the technology is there, but it's subsumed and serves the human drama, which is the true centerpiece of the show. The timely political and social commentaries, I don't think, are lost on anybody. BSG has the daring to tackle the difficult and charged issues of military occupation and insurgency, the use of human bombs and collateral damage, detention camps and torture, religion as a proxy of democracy, and ultimately what's right even when you're convinced you're fighting for the right side. The brave decision to place our sympathetic characters in the role of insurgents and terrorists is at the same time illuminating and jarring.

And, as for the plot and story telling, other than the unexpected twist of +1 year at the end of the season, I'm definitely appreciating the writer's careful approach to the show where one character's actions have direct bearing on what happens next. Unlike some schizophrenic one hour drama where you're feed more questions than you'll ever get answers for, the dramatic impact of BSG's story isn't lost. I for one, am looking forward to whether Baltar can ever redeem himself, and whether the trust that Sharon and Adama have built up will shatter once the truth of what happened to her baby comes out.

One more thing: Fat Adama! Get your fat ass out of here!

selowitch · 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by SirCastor

Where is the freakin' iTunes download! I need to see this

Me too! What's taking them so long?!?! I don't see any mentions of iTunes on the Sci-Fi channel website, which worries me. Maybe they aren't doing it this season.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Oct 7, 2006, 05:07 PM

I liked it, dark and gloomy.

It is good for a few episodes to be on the planet but I can't wait for them to get back in space.

goMac · Oct 7, 2006, 08:20 PM

Any bets on how Adama caused the attacks?

Oversoul · Oct 7, 2006, 11:17 PM

I wonder if it will be some kind of indirect moral guilt in the sense that he's a representative of a sinful mankind or as a soldier in the first war, or if it'll be something more direct like he aided and abetted the Cylons in some way.

deej5871 · 01:44 AM

iTunes really needs to get its act together. I was planning on buying this episode on iTunes since I had to miss it, but it's still not available. I refused to wait any longer and I just got it via BT.

What I really want to know is where the podcast is. It's in the podcast section of my iTunes but when it goes to download the file doesn't exist. It also is supposed to be there according to SCIFI.COM, but when I try to download from there I still get nothing. What's the deal?

Edit: Nevermind about the podcast. Apparently the "enhanced" version of the podcast works, so all is well.

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Oct 8, 2006, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by deej5871

iTunes really needs to get its act together. I was planning on buying this episode on iTunes since I had to miss it, but it's still not available. I refused to wait any longer and I just got it via BT.

What I really want to know is where the podcast is. It's in the podcast section of my iTunes but when it goes to download the file doesn't exist. It also is supposed to be there according to SCIFI.COM, but when I try to download from there I still get nothing. What's the deal?

Edit: Nevermind about the podcast. Apparently the "enhanced" version of the podcast works, so all is well.

Where is this enhanced podcast you speak of? I cant find it on iTunes

selowitch · Oct 8, 2006, 08:51 AM

Can't find it on BT. Anybody have a link?
This sucks! I want the iTunes download so bad I could SCREAM! WTF is going on???

Eug Wanker · Oct 8, 2006, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn

Where is this enhanced podcast you speak of? I cant find it on iTunes

I can't get it to work either. My iTunes sees it, but I can't get it.

Listen to commentary by executive producer Ronald D. Moore and his wife, Terry Moore, while watching Battlestar Galactica episode 301-302, "Occupation"/"Precipice" (special double-episode season premiere).

None of the enhanced podcasts work for me either. (Click here to subscribe to the enhanced podcast.)

Plus, the videos don't play right for me. Why the frak did they switch from QuickTime to flash?

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Oct 8, 2006, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Any bets on how Adama caused the attacks?

Ok wait a sec. What am I missing here? I don't remember anything about Adama causing an attack?

Perhaps I was more drunk/stoned than i thought.

goMac · Oct 8, 2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Ok wait a sec. What am I missing here? I don't remember anything about Adama causing an attack?

Perhaps I was more drunk/stoned than i thought.

It was mentioned in the preview for all of season 3 shown after S3.E1. Adama feels guilt for somehow causing the attack on the colonies.

Visnaut · Oct 8, 2006, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

It was mentioned in the preview for all of season 3 shown after S3.E1. Adama feels guilt for somehow causing the attack on the colonies.

I can check my PVR, but I'm pretty sure they didn't show that same preview here in Canada on the Space channel. They showed snippets for the next episode, but not for the entire season. I'm quite sure they didn't mention anything regarding Adama's culpability in the original attacks.

So yeah, SWG, you weren't as blitzed as you thought.

goMac · Oct 8, 2006, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Visnaut

I can check my PVR, but I'm pretty sure they didn't show that same preview here in Canada on the Space channel. They showed snippets for the next episode, but not for the entire season. I'm quite sure they didn't mention anything regarding Adama's culpability in the original attacks.

So yeah, SWG, you weren't as blitzed as you thought.

They also showed a scene in the preview with Baltar talking to six exclaiming "Are you saying I'm a Cylon?"

(I still don't think Baltar is a cylon)

Chuckit · Oct 8, 2006, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

They also showed a scene in the preview with Baltar talking to six exclaiming "Are you saying I'm a Cylon?"

(I still don't think Baltar is a cylon)

The full scene goes like this:

Baltar: Are you saying I'm a Cylon?

Six: No, you halfwit.

Oversoul · Oct 8, 2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

(I still don't think Baltar is a cylon)

I don't think so either. Otherwise, I doubt Caprica Six would be so intent on protecting him: first, shielding him on Caprica when the nukes were going off; and second, objecting to the other Cylons' call to kill him in the season premiere.

OreoCookie · Oct 8, 2006, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Oversoul

I don't think so either. Otherwise, I doubt Caprica Six would be so intent on protecting him: first, shielding him on Caprica when the nukes were going off; and second, objecting to the other Cylons' call to kill him in the season premiere.

Well, if Baltar were a Cylon, there would have been no need for six. After all, why do you need a Cylon to fool another Cylon? Especially considering Baltar has designed/contributed to the design of the Defense Mainframe: why do you need codes if you can add a backdoor?

OreoCookie · Oct 8, 2006, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Any bets on how Adama caused the attacks?

Huh? How did Adama cause the attacks?
If memory serves me right, it was the nuclear detonation that led the Cylons to New Caprica and Adama feels guilty, because he had to leave the majority of humanity on New Caprica.

Dark Helmet · Oct 8, 2006, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Oversoul

I don't think so either. Otherwise, I doubt Caprica Six would be so intent on protecting him: first, shielding him on Caprica when the nukes were going off; and second, objecting to the other Cylons' call to kill him in the season premiere.

Perhaps he was human but Six fell in love with him and didn't want to see him die during the attack so when his house went up in smoke she downloaded his mind into a body without sharing it to the other cylons. Something went fishy and got merged that is why Balar see's six and she see's baltar.

I was never comfortable how baltar survived the attack and had such a drastic personality change after.

Eug Wanker · Oct 8, 2006, 05:51 PM

OK, I finally got the 301-201 enhanced podcast downloaded. However, what's the difference besides "album art" between the enhanced podcast and the regular one?

goMac · Oct 8, 2006, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Huh? How did Adama cause the attacks?
If memory serves me right, it was the nuclear detonation that led the Cylons to New Caprica and Adama feels guilty, because he had to leave the majority of humanity on New Caprica.

Hence my question. How was he involved?

Millennium · Oct 8, 2006, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Hence my question. How was he involved?

He talked Roslin down from stealing the election, when he knew that a Baltar presidency would be a disaster.

One of the things I really like about this show (I just caught up yesterday, having been introduced to it by a friend a month ago) is that there are seldom if ever any easy answers to the questions it poses. This is one major example: the people made The Wrong Choice, and those in power knew it, but is it worth stealing an election to prevent a major disaster for all humanity?

goMac · Oct 8, 2006, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Millennium

He talked Roslin down from stealing the election, when he knew that a Baltar presidency would be a disaster.

Nono. The preview for the season showed Adama saying he was responsible for the attacks. I.E. the attacks on the twelve colonies.

selowitch · Oct 8, 2006, 11:08 PM

Well, frak it. I'm watching the premiere (Occupation/Precipice) on a rebroadcast on Sci-Fi. Still no damn iTunes download, but this is truly great.

reader50 · Oct 9, 2006, 12:02 AM

Starbuck's little girl. It's a plant.

It has been established that Cyclons can't interbreed with humans unless love is present. That cannot have happened in this case. The kid might be:

1) A random kid stolen from someone else.
2) A clone of Starbuck.
3) A new Cylon model, as in #13.

I'm also not seeing how the kid injured herself. No solid object visible on the floor. The kid could have gashed herself on the railing, if she fell on it from above. Which she couldn't reach without help. I'm reminded of that scene in Downloaded where Caprica Six scratches herself to manipulate sympathy.

Unless I'm missing something, the kid is not only a plant, but Leoben staged the injury too. Starbuck seems to be buying it.

Oh, and the Cylons have built a new resurrection ship. It's around somewhere within a few lightyears. That, or they have a complete resurrection facility set up on New Caprica somewhere. Close enough for Leoben to show up within ... 8 hours? after being recycled.

Actually, that might work as a tagline for the Resistance.
"Recycle Cylons. It's good for the environment."

Dark Helmet · Oct 9, 2006, 12:12 AM

I was thinking the same thing about the kid. Not that it isn't her child but the injury was a fake for starbuck to fall in love with the kid.

Probably makes sense that it is not really hears.

selowitch · Oct 9, 2006, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I was thinking the same thing about the kid. Not that it isn't her child but the injury was a fake for starbuck to fall in love with the kid.

Probably makes sense that it is not really hears.

The "surprise, you have a child you didn't know about" gag is a little overused, don't you think? Kill Bill is but one recent example.

Eug Wanker · Oct 9, 2006, 12:19 AM

I think it was a staged accident.

However, I think it is her kid.

P.S. That kid actually does look like the love child of Starbuck and that Cylon.

Originally Posted by selowitch

The "surprise, you have a child you didn't know about" gag is a little overused, don't you think? Kill Bill is but one recent example.

Except that it was building to this all last season. It's not as if it came as a major surprise.

Dark Helmet · Oct 9, 2006, 12:57 AM

OK I don't get something.

Adama mentions the centurions can't tell the difference between the same model of humanoid cylons. The humanoid cylons designed them that way so the centurions don't become self aware and retaliate.

huh?

Ok first why would telling them apart make a machine self aware?

Second, didn't the centurions come first? Weren't they the ones that created the humanoids and if so how did the humanoids get in charge?

selowitch · Oct 9, 2006, 12:59 AM

The obvious parallels to the Holocaust (with Baltar heading up the equivalent of the Judenraat) is incredibly disturbing but also adds to the poignancy of the show. This is great stuff, as hard as it is sometimes to watch.

They can't possibly have just machine-gunned Roslin and Zarek, could they?

goMac · Oct 9, 2006, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Ok first why would telling them apart make a machine self aware?

Because they don't have a self or individuality to be aware of. I think Baltar's real Six is bordering on breaking through this though. And obviously the two boomers already have.

I'm betting they sent those Centurions at the end of Occupation to kill the police.

selowitch · Oct 9, 2006, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Second, didn't the centurions come first? Weren't they the ones that created the humanoids and if so how did the humanoids get in charge?

The humanoid Cylons are probably the spawn of the Imperious Leader or something.

Dark Helmet · Oct 9, 2006, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

I'm betting they sent those Centurions at the end of Occupation to kill the police.

That is the first thing I said as well.

SpaceMonkey · Oct 9, 2006, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

OK I don't get something.

Adama mentions the centurions can't tell the difference between the same model of humanoid cylons. The humanoid cylons designed them that way so the centurions don't become self aware and retaliate.

huh?

Ok first why would telling them apart make a machine self aware?

Second, didn't the centurions come first? Weren't they the ones that created the humanoids and if so how did the humanoids get in charge?

Recognizing others as individuals probably plays some part in developing a self-identity. Think "Hugh" from ST: TNG.

The credits tell us that the humanoids "evolved" from the original centurions, so it may be that some original centurions never actually became self-aware.

Chuckit · Oct 9, 2006, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

I'm also not seeing how the kid injured herself.

She fell down the stairs. My brother did the same thing when he was 4 — try to climb up some stairs too fast, lose balance, bust a hole in your head.

Dale Sorel · Oct 9, 2006, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by selowitch

They can't possibly have just machine-gunned Roslin and Zarek, could they?

I bet Zarek has some of his hoodlum buddies, who followed the whole doomsday caravan, save their behinds.

Kr0nos · Oct 9, 2006, 02:33 AM

Well, let me be the first one here to say that I am somewhat disappointed with the direction BSG is taking.

I really liked the cinematic language and enjoyed the novel/disturbing imagery, what I don't really much care for though, is the character development (especially in Kara, Baltar, Apollo and Six).

I'm so sick and tired of the "human drama" and the all too obvious parallels to todays society (suicide bombing, occupations, religious dogma, (corrupt) politics etc.)

I liked Baltar sooo much better as a scientist than as a politician, and Six has lost all of the seductiveness and mystique which surrounded her in season two and especially season one.

And Starbuck as a seemingly broken and disturbed person is just boring...I hope she gets out of that situation asap.

Like somebody else here already said, - I can't wait 'till they get back into space.

goMac · Oct 9, 2006, 02:45 AM

The show is heavily character driven. Myself, I liked the change of pace. It took characters we've seen develop a lot, such as Starbuck, Baltar and Adama, and really pulled them out of the limelight. Instead, we now get to see Sharon, Tigh, and Cylon development. The focus on character is what makes BSG great. It makes the show relatable to anyone, even if they're not into Sci Fi.

They'll get back into space soon. This time is just needed to develop characters again and keep things mixed up for when they get back to space. Can you imagine if they dragged on S2 storylines for another season?

Chuckit · Oct 9, 2006, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Can you imagine if they dragged on S2 storylines for another season?

Hi, Lost!

ink · Oct 9, 2006, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

I'm so sick and tired of the "human drama" and the all too obvious parallels to todays society (suicide bombing, occupations, religious dogma, (corrupt) politics etc.)

So, does the fact that DS9 deal with these issues before they became "obvious parallel to today's society" mean anything?

I'm digging BSG, but I somewhat agree with your statement, and would amend it with the caveot that scifi should be cognizant of the future and past as well. Good fiction (science or otherwise) is a device that can explain human behavior.

Chuckit · Oct 9, 2006, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

I'm so sick and tired of the "human drama" and the all too obvious parallels to todays society (suicide bombing, occupations, religious dogma, (corrupt) politics etc.)

You would prefer a show that's completely irrelevant to anything and everything? I mean, BSG has been heavy-handed on occasion — there were a lot of ham-fisted "parallels" in the first season — but I thought the season opener actually did a good job of presenting issues and integrating them into the plot rather than just ripping stuff out of the headlines and moralizing.

RAILhead · Oct 9, 2006, 07:33 AM

I'm really liking how they're developing Tigh, myself.

Millennium · Oct 9, 2006, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

OK I don't get something.

Adama mentions the centurions can't tell the difference between the same model of humanoid cylons. The humanoid cylons designed them that way so the centurions don't become self aware and retaliate.

huh?

Ok first why would telling them apart make a machine self aware?

Second, didn't the centurions come first? Weren't they the ones that created the humanoids and if so how did the humanoids get in charge?

Keep in mind that the centurions we're used to in the new series weren't the first model. An older model was on display in Galactica when it was about to be turned into a museum, and at the beginning of the miniseries the guy on the space station is reading over specs for the older model (which "happens" to look just like the original series' Cylons). At one point -again in the miniseries- Six tells Baltar that some of these older models are still around.

My guess is that the "old" Cylon models were the ones who created the first Agents. They set the Agents up in charge out of brutal mechanical logic: they're newer, better models, so they should be in charge. These older Cylons were self-aware, at least to the point of being able to fight the Cylon Wars. It is even possible that some or all of them downloaded their consciousnesses into the first Agents, in order to bootstrap the cycle of death and rebirth.

Once the Agents were in charge, they set about creating new Centurion and Raider models. They made the "new Centurions" nonsentient for their own purposes, while the Raiders were made semi-sentient so that they could retain their knowledge and skills after being destroyed.

Millennium · Oct 9, 2006, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by selowitch

They can't possibly have just machine-gunned Roslin and Zarek, could they?

Well, we heard Roslin talking in the previews for the next episode, and she was saying new lines: not something that could have been a flashback. This implies that either she didn't get machine-gunned or that she did, but somehow survived.

Then again, this opens up new questions: how the hell did she get out of that?

Kr0nos · Oct 9, 2006, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

The focus on character is what makes BSG great. It makes the show relatable to anyone, even if they're not into Sci Fi… Can you imagine if they dragged on S2 storylines for another season?

Oh, I totally agree with you, - I just don't like the "type" of charcters in relation to the story itself.

You can completely change up the storyline, but have the protagonists esentially play their part (in variations).

Yes, focus on character is what BSG is all about, so when the characters themselves are boring, unplausible and out of place - the whole series generally goes the same way.

That was what I was referring to.

Kr0nos · Oct 9, 2006, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by ink

So, does the fact that DS9 deal with these issues before they became "obvious parallel to today's society" mean anything?

It means that the screenwriters were actually doing their job.

Originally Posted by ink

Good fiction (science or otherwise) is a device that can explain human behavior.

Good fiction always explains, highlights and interprets human behavior - in addition science-fiction also anticipates it.

My problem with BSG S03 is that it is becoming too much of a comment on current political events (especially in light of military "life").

Kr0nos · Oct 9, 2006, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You would prefer a show that's completely irrelevant to anything and everything?

If so, I'd be watching Big Brother or *Idol and not BSG.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I mean, BSG has been heavy-handed on occasion — there were a lot of ham-fisted "parallels" in the first season — but I thought the season opener actually did a good job of presenting issues and integrating them into the plot rather than just ripping stuff out of the headlines and moralizing.

Well, what they are doing is quite obvious. They are taking certain real life political "topics" and situations and are mixing them up and presenting them from a different perspective (the "suicide bombers" are now the "good guys" etc.)

Personally, I'm just so sick and tired of hearing about it (and actually, they are not presenting any new angles, takes on, or interpretations of, the subject matter)

I just wish they'd go back to half nekkid women in bar brawls, psychotic professors and awesome space battles - rather than showing a washed up broad screw some balding droid in order to see her husband again(?!).

andi*pandi · Oct 9, 2006, 10:13 AM

my thinking on kara and the kid is that a) the accident was likely faked; b) the kid is likely hers; c) she knows all that and is faking complacence so she and the kid can escape together.

questions to ask about the hybrids: how strong will they be? (withstand stairs?) can they download themselves to new bodies?