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PC Gaming (Also, Advice Needed) (Page 6)
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jul 21, 2016, 02:18 PM
 
The link I posted, to buysquad I think, IS the 2015 model. He asked if it was a Refurb and I replied that it's new, but discounted because it's last year's model.
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Laminar
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Jul 21, 2016, 02:49 PM
 
Yes and the link I posted, to Amazon, IS the 2015 model. I asked why it's $300 more expensive on Amazon.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jul 21, 2016, 06:03 PM
 
Oh, I thought Jawbone had posted that link. No idea why. Amazon isn't always competitive and don't seem to care (they sell at a fixed % over cost for electronics). Other places seem to have them for a a bit more, in the $550 range, so the price appears to be legit. Calling them might be a good idea, if you're concerned that it could be a refurb. Other refurbed items on that site are clearly listed, though: Samsung UN22D5000 22 LED-LCD 1080p HDTV
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Jul 22, 2016, 04:38 AM
 
A new "nVidia Titan X", based on GP102, has been announced. Basically it is GTX1080 times 1.5, all at the low low price of $1200.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jul 22, 2016, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
If you're wanting to use the 2nd monitor for gaming, don't. If you can't go 3 displays, stick with 1. Having 2 splits games in the worst possible place, right in the middle. If you're going to go with 2, I have a 3rd option to propose, get a decent 40" 4K TV instead of a monitor and place it directly above your present monitor on a VESA arm. Just get a 4K TV that has a true 60Hz refresh, and a gaming mode for lower latency, and you'll be set. The Samsung JU6500 seems to be the choice of many for this, it has 4:4:4 chroma (for clear text) and is less laggy than others in its class. Also, you'll have access to all the TV's streaming services, right at your computer desk. Samsung UN40JU6500 40-Inch 4K Ultra HD Smart LED TV

Then get a 1070 and hook them both up to it and game to your heart's content. (Yes, you can use the 40" TV for PC gaming too, and you can also hook up a console as well, of course, if that's your thing, due to the monitor's plethora of HDMI ports.)
Same TV is at Buydig for $529, and includes a couple 6' cables: BuyDig.com - Samsung UN40JU6500 - 40-Inch 4K Ultra HD Smart LED HDTV

(Price adjusts when you go to checkout.)
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jul 22, 2016, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
A new "nVidia Titan X", based on GP102, has been announced. Basically it is GTX1080 times 1.5, all at the low low price of $1200.
No HBM2, no sale. I'm waiting for Volta (or Vega if it's really good).
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Jul 22, 2016, 06:55 PM
 
I wonder if GCN can stretch far enough to beat GP102. We now know what 4th gen GCN can do, and Polaris 10 is more or less equal to GP106 - about 10% less. GP102 is three times GP106, and GP104 is in the middle at twice GP106. The rumored Greenland/Vega 10 is 64 CUs - not quite a doubling of the 36 CU Polaris 10. I am sure a nice bandwidth boost will help, but can that even match GP104? Meanwhile, that card that will beat GP102 will have to have over 100 CUs - probably close to 120. I am not sure games in general are that widely parallelizable. The extremely sketchy word on Vega 11 puts that card in the 80-90 CU range, and that won't be enough.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Jul 25, 2016, 09:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Same TV is at Buydig for $529, and includes a couple 6' cables: BuyDig.com - Samsung UN40JU6500 - 40-Inch 4K Ultra HD Smart LED HDTV

(Price adjusts when you go to checkout.)
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN40K...dp/B01DUTL4OI/

How does this model compare to that one? I don't see any mention of a gaming mode.
     
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Jul 26, 2016, 04:37 AM
 
Nvidia has some new Quadro cards, one based on GP104 and one on GP102 - and incidentally proving that GP102 is indeed 150% of GP104, just with 2 SMs disabled in Titan X - meaning, if AMD somehow manages to match it, nVidia can launch a Tian X Black or whatever with the last two enabled.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jul 28, 2016, 03:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN40K...dp/B01DUTL4OI/

How does this model compare to that one? I don't see any mention of a gaming mode.
It has limited color support, it's only a 4:2:0 gamut set with no RGB mode, which will make colors inaccurate and text difficult to read. It would be a bad idea to use it as a PC monitor.
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Jul 28, 2016, 04:51 PM
 
Yes, anything with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling is unsuitable as a monitor. To be avoided at all costs.

(4:2:0 chroma subsampling means that the resolution of the color channels is a quarter of the advertised. The color information is "rotated" into one channel for luma information - how bright the image is - and two channels for red-green and yellow-blue respectively. The channel for luma is kept at full resolution, while the other two are cut to a quarter. This is common for video - Blu-ray is already encoded in this manner, and so is most other video - but text or any regular user interface will look blurry).
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jul 29, 2016, 10:15 AM
 
Amazon is offering a full, 100% refund on GTX 970s...

...so, guess who gets $232.99 to get towards a 1070/1080? Good grief, this choice just got harder.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jul 29, 2016, 03:49 PM
 
Oh, in that case, go with a good non-FE 1080 + 4K TV (that Samsung is still available last I checked). Witcher 3 is amazing on a big display @4K (so are virtually all other newer titles, except "twitch" FPS games). It changes the entire gaming "meta", IMO.
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Aug 31, 2016, 05:14 AM
 
A monster of an Acer gaming laptop coming next year Acer Predator 21 X: Notebook with Curved Display, Kaby Lake and GeForce GTX 1080 SLI
21" curved screen, SLI 1080gtx graphics, next gen that isn't out yet (this is why it's out next year) i7 processor yada yada... it won't be cheap. And don't put it on your lap

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
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Aug 31, 2016, 07:13 AM
 
So basically it is a 21" iMac that folds up, and dedicates more of the TDP to the GPU. Right, that sounds like it would be great to carry around.

Honest question: Who needs two GTX 1080 for a 2560*1080 resolution? One is overkill.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Aug 31, 2016, 03:27 PM
 
Absolutely ridiculous.
     
Laminar
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Sep 1, 2016, 02:51 PM
 
You'll be the envy of everyone at the coffeeshop.
     
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Sep 1, 2016, 04:45 PM
 
Sounds amazing, how much did it cost you?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 4, 2016, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
So basically it is a 21" iMac that folds up, and dedicates more of the TDP to the GPU. Right, that sounds like it would be great to carry around.

Honest question: Who needs two GTX 1080 for a 2560*1080 resolution? One is overkill.
It has Thunderbolt, DP out, and HDMI 2.0, so it's likely for using a 2nd and/or 3rd monitor. Also, it appears to be a 144Hz display on the "laptop" itself.

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You'll be the envy of everyone at the coffeeshop.
By "envy" you mean "laughing stock", right?

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Absolutely ridiculous.
For real, that's just crazy... unless you really need a portable workstation with mechanical keyboard, and aren't going to be carrying it around too often. 17lbs isn't too bad, I guess, given its power. I'll bet the battery life is pretty good, actually, unless you're actively gaming.
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Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 20, 2016, 03:03 PM
 
I've been using a Corsair K65 tenkeyless keyboard (cherry MX red) since about a month after building my rig, and it's served me well, but I've been envying the 60% mechanical keyboard market for a while. It seems like /r/mechanicalkeyboards/ has been growing in popularity recently, so I finally finagled my way into a POK3R with cherry MX clear switches...



I was a bit hesitant to take the plunge on the clears, but the decision couldn't have gone better. This is my favorite keyboard I've ever used, and it's a little quieter than the reds without losing that satisfying clack. Amazing. It also feels built like a tank.

I've already secured my wooden case via MassDrop. Now all I'm waiting for is the 1976 keycap set to drop again.

My final keyboard should look something like this:





Am I alone in the mechanical keyboard love here?
( Last edited by Jawbone54; Sep 21, 2016 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Image res fixed.)
     
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Sep 20, 2016, 05:38 PM
 
Looks like a keyboard that my son would build. Out of Lego.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 20, 2016, 05:49 PM
 
Haha...

Eye of the beholder and such, I suppose.
     
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Sep 21, 2016, 04:03 AM
 
Image size, please. That top image is more than three times as wide as the limit, and it doesn't need to be. I know we don't care much about those rules anymore, but this is over the top.

After trying pretty much all possible keyboards, I have found that I like the very flat kind. I have a cheap-o backlit Logitech keyboard that works just fine. The clicky-type doesn't work well for me with the desk I use at home - they're too high for what is already a very high desk.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 21, 2016, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Image size, please. That top image is more than three times as wide as the limit, and it doesn't need to be. I know we don't care much about those rules anymore, but this is over the top.
I'm sorry about that. This is about the fourth time I've done that, and every time I want to slam my head on the desk for overlooking.

After trying pretty much all possible keyboards, I have found that I like the very flat kind. I have a cheap-o backlit Logitech keyboard that works just fine. The clicky-type doesn't work well for me with the desk I use at home - they're too high for what is already a very high desk.
You're not the standing desk type, are you?
     
Laminar
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Sep 21, 2016, 12:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Image size, please. That top image is more than three times as wide as the limit, and it doesn't need to be. I know we don't care much about those rules anymore, but this is over the top.
Every picture subego posts is straight off of a camera phone with no downsizing, about three times the width of my screen.
     
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Sep 22, 2016, 05:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
You're not the standing desk type, are you?
Absolutely not. I have an antique desk that is quite hard to get into a real working position (there is a drawer under the desk surface where I sit) but I have it figured out now with the help of a narrow office chair without armrests. Doesn't suit the room at all, but it works to sit at.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Sep 23, 2016, 02:53 PM
 
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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Sep 24, 2016, 06:36 AM
 
From that article:

Dell has included USB Type-C, HDMI 2.0 and miniDP 1.2 ports for display connectivity.


DisplayPort 1.2 and HDMI 2.0 can't support 4K@120Hz. You need DisplayPort 1.3 for that, unless you're doing something stupid with chroma subsampling or something. I suspect that it is the article that is wrong, though, and that Dell really supports DisplayPort 1.3.

It all comes down to how good the OLED panel is, though. Older OLEDs sometimes have terrible color accuracy. My new display, a 4K 27" LG IPS, has everything else that this display has except the 120Hz refresh rate, and it cost a tenth of what Dell wants for this.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 24, 2016, 12:58 PM
 
Meh, for gaming I don't care about color accuracy, only pixel response, input lag, and refresh rate, but I'm betting that for the price these are projected to sell for (and the fact they're giving it the UltraSharp badge) it'll be spot-on.

PCPer:
It has some rather impressive specifications, and I am really interested in seeing it in person! The panel manufacturer is still unknown (though many have guessed it is one from LG), but it offers up a resolution of 3840 x 2160, refresh rate of up to 120Hz, 0.1ms response time, and 400,000:1 contrast ratio. Being OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode), the monitor will be able to deliver true blacks and excellent colors in a very thin profile thanks to not needing a separate backlight (the pixels themselves emit light). Dell claims that the UP3017Q 4K monitor fully supports 100% of the Adobe RGB and 97.8% DCI-P3 color spaces. At a claimed 1.07 billion colors this is a 10-bit color monitor which will be useful in professional applications where color accuracy is paramount.
also from the PCPer article:
One interesting hang up lies in the video inputs on this monitor. It only has HDMI 2.0, Mini DisplayPort 1.2, and USB Type-C. As posters over at [H] pointed out, the HDMI 2.0 and DP 1.2 connections do not have enough bandwidth to support the panels 3840 x 2160 resolution at 120Hz. Fortunately the refresh rate is not a lie. There is a way to do it, but users will need to use the USB Type-C connector and it’s DisplayPort Alternate Mode feature to do it. At DisplayPort 1.2, the DisplayPort Alt Mode can give you 5.4 Gbps per lanes and using all four available lanes can hit a total of 21.6 Gbps which would be enough to support 4096x2160@60Hz. However, the DisplayPort 1.3 standard (which this monitor and it’s USB Type-C port seems to support) can give up to 8.1 Gbps for up to 32.4 Gbps of bandwidth (25.92 Gbps after 8b/10b encoding overhead) which should allow the full 3840x2160@120Hz to be used.
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Jawbone54  (op)
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Sep 24, 2016, 02:49 PM
 
$4,999.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 24, 2016, 04:29 PM
 
Huh? Oh yeah, it's kind of steep, but I look at stuff like that as an investment. OLED on desktops isn't going to be mainstream for a loooong time, if ever.
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Sep 24, 2016, 07:36 PM
 
It is ten times what my display goes for, and except for having an IPS LCD instead of OLED and missing the high refresh rate, it is the same - at 3" smaller, but I consider that a benefit as the ppi goes up and it is easier to fit on a desktop. I know that there are people who love those high refresh rates, but ten times the money, for a display technology with a somewhat spotty reputation on mobiles? Yes it is great that someone is pushing the technology forward, because OLED ought to be great in the long run, but it isn't a reasonable consumer choice today.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 25, 2016, 10:51 AM
 
This isn't the same tech as smartphones, professional OLEDs are much more robust. Samsung AMOLED phones, though nice to look at, are toys in comparison. Heck, I can barely use 60Hz panels anymore, even for simple work, now that I'm accustomed to 120Hz+. I set my current LCD monitors to 120Hz with ULMB (PW 75) and forget it. It's wonderful. The smoothness in everything is striking, so I can only imagine how a professional OLED will look at 30".
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Sep 25, 2016, 02:35 PM
 
Sure, but... Ten times the money. If I had spent ten times the money on my CPU, it would be a 14-core Xeon E5 (looking at stuff that was available when I built this, using list prices just for comparison). If I had spent ten times the money on GPUs, I would have three Titans X. Ten times on storage doesn't even make sense, I guess I could make a RAM disk backed by a supercap. Either of those things would be a bigger lift than moving to this display.

Note that I didn't use cheapskate stuff for either the display or anything else on this build, I bought high-quality parts with good bang-for-buck.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 6, 2016, 05:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
One is arriving soon for me to test, not free but at a decent discount. woohoo! Before long I'll let you know my first impressions.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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May 10, 2017, 03:19 AM
 
Can confirm this, and it's not looking good for the AMD Vega launch: https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/amd-rx-...imited-release

HBM2 module and interposer yields are crap, meaning mass release won't happen until the Xmas season (16k will be sold directly through AMD in a few weeks, but don't expect to be able to buy those unless you know someone). I think that's shit and it should be handled like a lottery, but w/e.
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May 10, 2017, 03:51 AM
 
If Vega is the best GPU ever, beating the 1080 Ti, then I don't think it is a terrible problem. AMD can just price them like crazy. Yield problems aren't unexpected, the GP100 (Big Pascal, not 1080 Ti but then one above that only goes to high-end compute) has been technically out for more than a year and yields are apparently horrendous.

The problem comes if performance is like the 1080. If AMD does what nVidia did a year ago, except with a much bigger chip with HBM2, then I think they're done.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Jun 24, 2017, 10:53 AM
 
A little heads-up for anyone thinking of building a gaming PC right now: all the latest midrange Radeons, RX 470/480/570/580, are sold out globally due to another crypto mining craze. The GTX 1060, which is much weaker as a miner than the comparably priced 580, and the GTX 1070, comparable as a miner to the 580 but much more expensive, are also drying up as miners pick the next best thing. 1080 and 1080 Ti are still around as a quirk in their memory architecture makes them less suited to mining, but those are not cheap cards. As Vega seems to have supply issues at launch, the answer for anyone trying to buy a GPU right now seems to be...don't bother, or save up for a 1080.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Jun 24, 2017, 10:58 AM
 
Yeah, I've been seeing and hearing a lot about this in the past few weeks. I kept thinking about upgrading to a 1070, but if this doesn't improve, I may be waiting for an 1170 (or whatever's comparable) next time around.
     
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Jul 6, 2017, 08:44 AM
 
Volta is going to be pretty epic, I'd just sit on your 970 for now and save your nickels for a 2070. It should be almost as fast (within a few %) as the outgoing 1080TI. Vega, OTOH, looks to be a stinker, comparatively. It's huge (expensive to make), power-hungry, and hot, while its top tier iteration is only as fast as the 1080. I'm super disappointed, AMD needed a home run here and Vega ain't it.
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Jul 6, 2017, 09:38 AM
 
Vega is 484mm2, which is more or less equal to GP102 (1080 Ti) at 471mm2. PCPer measured it to ~560mm2 or something which would have been huge, but AMD has confirmed the actual size on twitter.

Vega right now behaves like Fiji (Fury X) but overclocked to about 1400 MHz. The only difference is that AMD's fix for nVidia's sabotage in the Gameworks code that was in Polaris (Radeon 4x0) is also active here. There is no trace of the new rasterizer (draw stream binning rasterizer) which gave nVidia such a big boost, and the power saving algorithm seems extremely strange in throttling cases. The driver version for Vega FE is from a very old branch, so the conclusion is that the real Vega driver is not done yet and what they're shipping right now is using a fallback mode that is effectively Fiji. Exactly how much better it will be with a real driver is a matter of debate, but there is a 3DMark score floating around that is indicating a figure somewhere between 1080 and 1080 Ti. I'm sure that's not what they hoped for - HBM2 must be expensive - but it is also not completely embarrassing. Most importantly, it should mean that the cut-down Vega (Vega 10 Pro or Vega 56) should be just about even with the 1080. AMD often makes great cards out of its cut-down chips.

The only thing we've seen of Volta so far is a stupid-large GV100 (800mm2!) where all the news were compute-related. The new process is just a rebranding of the same old TSMC 16nm (which, to be fair, is still the second best process out there after Intel), so the only way that Volta brings noticeably better performance on the GV104 (2080) is if GV104 is significantly larger than GP104 (1080). Why would nVidia do that if AMD still doesn't have a counter? Nah. I think GV104 is later. GV106 or GP206 might come - 1060 is hurting against 480/580 - but there are no obvious defects to correct, it is just a too small card.
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Jawbone54  (op)
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Jul 6, 2017, 12:21 PM
 
Thanks for all the info. Every time you post, I find myself googling the unfamiliar terms/concepts, and wind up learning something.

I'd be curious to see if the 2070 is going to be able to hit the rumored price point.
     
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Jul 7, 2017, 03:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Vega is 484mm2, which is more or less equal to GP102 (1080 Ti) at 471mm2. PCPer measured it to ~560mm2 or something which would have been huge, but AMD has confirmed the actual size on twitter.

Vega right now behaves like Fiji (Fury X) but overclocked to about 1400 MHz. The only difference is that AMD's fix for nVidia's sabotage in the Gameworks code that was in Polaris (Radeon 4x0) is also active here. There is no trace of the new rasterizer (draw stream binning rasterizer) which gave nVidia such a big boost, and the power saving algorithm seems extremely strange in throttling cases. The driver version for Vega FE is from a very old branch, so the conclusion is that the real Vega driver is not done yet and what they're shipping right now is using a fallback mode that is effectively Fiji. Exactly how much better it will be with a real driver is a matter of debate, but there is a 3DMark score floating around that is indicating a figure somewhere between 1080 and 1080 Ti. I'm sure that's not what they hoped for - HBM2 must be expensive - but it is also not completely embarrassing. Most importantly, it should mean that the cut-down Vega (Vega 10 Pro or Vega 56) should be just about even with the 1080. AMD often makes great cards out of its cut-down chips.

The only thing we've seen of Volta so far is a stupid-large GV100 (800mm2!) where all the news were compute-related. The new process is just a rebranding of the same old TSMC 16nm (which, to be fair, is still the second best process out there after Intel), so the only way that Volta brings noticeably better performance on the GV104 (2080) is if GV104 is significantly larger than GP104 (1080). Why would nVidia do that if AMD still doesn't have a counter? Nah. I think GV104 is later. GV106 or GP206 might come - 1060 is hurting against 480/580 - but there are no obvious defects to correct, it is just a too small card.
Sorry, but you're doing a lot of reaching. There's nothing but conjecture to point at GV104 having the issues you claim. They've already said GV104 is going to be much smaller than GV100, the difference will be even more pronounced than GP100 and GP104, because their market for the big chips isn't gaming, it's deep learning, where they have no real competition but are constantly being pressured by that market to produce faster products and are forced to evolve. What will make GV104 so impressive is SM optimization. Early samples are pointing towards a 35-50%* performance improvement over GP104, with 20% from process improvements alone and the rest based on higher achievable clocks (a boost clock of 2250-2400MHz, or more). Is it larger than GP104? About 15% (rumored), but the efficiency gains will make it more-or-less a wash in terms of TDP.

Vega? Well, we know what Vega is going to deliver, we have it, and in 12 months it's going to be a real contender for the 1080TI, after they've finally squeezed all they can from drivers. The problem is, by then the 2080 will have been out a while itself (a 3Q 2017 launch is still on schedule), it'll be considerably faster than big Vega in actual games (est. 20-30%), and the 2080TI will be looming... and that's not even counting whispers of the new Titan Xv card in two flavors, one with GDDR5x for $899, and another with HBM2 for much more (I'm guessing $1499).

While I want to believe there's more from AMD, there's nothing substantive to indicate that they're going to be able to counter nV, much less enact a coup, like some Red team members are hysterically professing. IMO, this is their last chance and I want very much want them to pull another 7970 out of their hat, but I'll believe it when I see it.


(*Yeah Nvidia was claiming a 40-70% improvement over Pascal, but that's typical Nvidia lily-gilding.)

-------------------------------

Looking over current offerings, Jawbone, I think you'd do well with a 1080: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16814125936 That's a solid card for $510. I wouldn't shop for a 1070, though. Mining makes them more attractive (something about their memory architecture) and they're almost as much as 1080s right now.
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Jul 7, 2017, 04:40 AM
 
I'm not claiming GV104 has issues, I'm claiming it doesn't make financial sense.

The only thing we know about Volta is the compute stuff that nVidia spoke about when they paperlaunched GV100. The only thing on their roadmap is HBM2, which they already have on GP100 and which doesn't seem to be doing AMD any favors right now. I'm sure there's something more, but nothing that strikes me as revolutionary

So nVidia could:

* Rebadge with an overclock and price drop, like GTX 770 was just an overclocked 680.
* Make a minor optimization run, like Fermi 1.1 (GTX 500 series) was
* Make a bigger chip on the same process, like Maxwell (900 series) was.

You're clearly assuming that it is the latter alternative. I'm not so sure, because it doesn't make financial sense for nVidia. I suspect that they will delay or even cancel GV104, like they did with GK114, and just do a rebadge/overclock instead. Remember that GK114 was still a chip they planned to make about this long before GTX 770 actually dropped as an overclocked GK104..

The one big advantage AMD has right now is Freesync. It is cheaper and there is much wider support for it among displays. nVidia is being stubborn here, trying to push Gsync for even more money, but they don't need new hardware if they decide to fold. Freesync (under the generic name DisplayPort Adaptive Sync) already works on the laptop Pascals, so they could enable it if they wanted to (and quite frankly I might pick one up if they do).

As for mining... The new hotness there is Ethereum-mining, and it loves memory bandwidth and low latency and doesn't care about the gaming optimizations. A wide GDDR5 bus is best, so the number one price/performance for them is Polaris 10 - Aka Radeon 470/480/570/580. They are now so back-ordered that AMD seems to be fishing up broken chips out of the scrap and selling them as 470D specifically for miners (they're "Polaris 10 LE", ie a third-tier chip with even more CUs disabled).

Second place is shared between 1060 and 1070. 1070 is about as fast as 480 for mining but more expensive, while 1060 is the same price but a bit slower and lower power. These are not sold out, but the price is racing and they don't make a lot of financial sense. A 1070 is now as expensive as the much faster (for gaming) 1080. The 1080 and 1080 Ti are not interesting for miners. They use GDDR5X, which trades a higher memory latency for even higher bandwidth, which apparently kills Etherium mining - a 1080 is actually slower than a 1070 and even a 580 in most cases (depends on clocks a bit).
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Jul 26, 2017, 12:11 AM
 
Top-end RX Vega 3D Mark benches have leaked, and it's as I feared, it's about the same as a stock 1080 (far behind the 1080TI). A $450-500 card isn't going to help them much at this stage of the game. In other news, GV104 is pushed out to Q4 2017 (same performance metrics as mentioned earlier), but I'm betting they'll stretch Pascal out to at least Q1 2018, given how underwhelming RX Vega appears to be.
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Jul 26, 2017, 04:46 AM
 
AMD has also been showing the card compared against a 1080, so it seems likely that that is what they're aiming for. I still think that the best we can hope for is the cut-down version as the 1080 competitor with RX Vega as something stronger. Only a week away now, and then we'll know about the drivers etc.

As for GV104: more or less what I said, right?
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Jul 27, 2017, 12:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
As for GV104: more or less what I said, right?
Pretty sure it's landing right between us.
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Aug 3, 2017, 12:46 PM
 
Seems the new ETH miners in alpha really like Vega and are finally optimized for HBM. That's going to be bad for gamers, even with AMD's new bundle strategy.
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Aug 4, 2017, 05:44 AM
 
Yes, I have heard the same thing. From being rather bad for mining on the FE, with the release version it is breaking records.
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Aug 4, 2017, 11:14 AM
 
I have a couple OTW, so we'll see. If so, that's great news for AMD (crummy news for AMD lovers), as sales go through the roof (until they use up all their HBM2).
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