[bstone]

http://dmedia.ucsc.edu/people/afrojas/tu/

Warning- this is PROFOUNDLY disturbing. Only watch it if you can stomach it (and no, this is not a joke).

[ambush]

As Emanuel Todd says, democracy is fading in old democratic country (USA, UK, Fra) and gaining popularity in thrid world, ex-autoritarian countries.

I'm always terrified when I see videos like this (and I saw it in real life too). These guys are trained to be brutal. It's so disturbing. I feel bad for both the protesters and the police... But a lot more for the protesters.

[von Wrangell]

Where's the brutality?

They wouldn't break up when the police told them to, and then they resisted arrest. The police used force without risking causing any injuries to the protesters and it seemed as if they were just very professional about the whole thing.

Again, where's the brutality? Police brutality is what they did to Rodney King. This was the police doing their job.

[gururafiki]

I posted this link in another forum.

[bstone]

von Wrangell, I am a little surprised. Wrapping your hands around someone's neck until they turn ashen grey is not "very professional". I am a licesned and certified EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) and I affirm to you that I became horribly concerned for the medical well-being of these kids. They were peaceful protesters who received choke holds from overzealous cops. Thankfully, it was all caught on video.

[PacHead]

I didn't see anything that even resembled brutality in that video.

A bunch of hippie socialists carrying bongos cannot just go around and setup tent cities whereever they please.

On thier homepage, one sees their stance and philosophy:

We demand/need.

Screw 'em, and kick the crap out of them, if they get rowdy.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Where's the brutality?

They wouldn't break up when the police told them to, and then they resisted arrest. The police used force without risking causing any injuries to the protesters and it seemed as if they were just very professional about the whole thing.

Again, where's the brutality? Police brutality is what they did to Rodney King. This was the police doing their job.

It's a damn miracle, we actually have agreed on one issue, though we disagree on just about everything else.

[brapper]

well that was upsetting..

[bstone]

Originally Posted by PacHead

I didn't see anything that even resembled brutality in that video.

A bunch of hippie socialists carrying bongos cannot just go around and setup tent cities whereever they please.

On thier homepage, one sees their stance and philosophy:

We demand/need.

Screw 'em, and kick the crap out of them, if they get rowdy.

Congrats on disqualifying yourself from rational debate. It matters not that they have different political views. They were expression their Constitutionally guarnteed rights of peaceful assembly. There is no right for cops to beat them, however.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by PacHead

It's a damn miracle, we actually have agreed on one issue, though we disagree on just about everything else.

I guess we can both be heartless bastards when we want to

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by bstone

Congrats on disqualifying yourself from rational debate. It matters not that they have different political views. They were expression their Constitutionally guarnteed rights of peaceful assembly. There is no right for cops to beat them, however.

If the protestors had any bit of rational thought in them, they would've just left when told to.

I don't feel sorry for what happens to irrational, belligerent people.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by bstone

von Wrangell, I am a little surprised. Wrapping your hands around someone's neck until they turn ashen grey is not "very professional". I am a licesned and certified EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) and I affirm to you that I became horribly concerned for the medical well-being of these kids. They were peaceful protesters who received choke holds from overzealous cops. Thankfully, it was all caught on video.

They used three(maybe four) "tricks" I've learned myself in the military. All are harmless if used correctly.

1. Pressure point technique under the mandible. Causes extreme pain(you can try it on a friend if you want) that makes you want to move up from the position you are in. Causes no damage at all except some bruising if done for extended periods.

2. Pressure point technique targeting the arteries going up to the brain. Causes the subject to lose consciousness before any damage is done. Harmless if it's ended when the subject stops resisting or becomes unconscious.

3. "Bitch-fight technique" as we called it. Basically getting a grip of some skin on the sensitive areas of the neck and face and the turn as much as possible. Causes extreme pain but doesn't cause any damage to the subject.

These are hard techniques but after that group didn't stop the assembly they had when ordered to and then resisted arrest the police had to do their thing.

[bstone]

Or the cops coud have let them campout overnight, sing their songs, speak their piece/peace and wave them goodbye as they packed up in the morning.

[IonCable]

Sorry, did not see the brutality. I didn't see anyone being clubbed, pepper sprayed, hosed or anything. The police were using pressure points to help remove resistant individuals. I can't seem to find the details on the incident but it look far from brutal to me.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by bstone

Or the cops coud have let them campout overnight, sing their songs, speak their piece/peace and wave them goodbye as they packed up in the morning.

Depends on where they were camping, what they were doing etc etc. That the police came in using riot gear should tell you enough about how "peaceful" that assembly was. Don't just trust an edited video from the "victims".

edit:

Just adding this bit: The usual "police-grip" is much more likely to cause serious damage than any of the above techniques. A friend of mine has a damaged elbow and shoulder for life after being roughed up by the police using their standard technique.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by bstone

Or the cops coud have let them campout overnight, sing their songs, speak their piece/peace and wave them goodbye as they packed up in the morning.

Wait -- aren't you the guy that likes to say "gentle" a lot?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by PacHead

A bunch of hippie socialists carrying bongos cannot just go around and setup tent cities whereever they please.

Of course. Student groups sponsored by a University shouldn't be allowed to set up tent camps on University grounds in condoned events. Thank god the police were defending private University property.

[RobOnTheCape]

Same as earlier mentioned. I expected Rodney King-like film. No batons, no boots, no fists, just cops looking to unlock the student protesters. The protesters could have stopped any pain inflicted by the cops by simply unlocking themselves. Where the tents not allowed? Perhaps the tents were there for a certain time, but after fair warning the protesters were ordered to clear out. Would like more info than what I scanned for.

People should save the warnings for true outrages instead of the professionalism displayed by the cops. That was quite a long clip. Was thinking "was that the best the videographer could come up with to scream brutality?"

[wdlove]

I'm not really sure what was going on in that footage. Seems that the young people were high on drugs of some sort.

[sideus]

Mountain out of a mole hill.

The police were doing their jobs. As for pressure points, they did the exact same thing I too have been trained to do. Someone refuses to move, time to put on the pressure.

[Captain Obvious]

That was awesome.
But lets go over a couple things Mr EMT. I DID NOT see anyone’s breathing being obstructed in the attempts to forcefully remove them from the area. In fact I saw a great amount of effort taken to avoid choking them. If they were hurt in this process it was because they were resisting arrest and took extraordinary measures to secure themselves to each other and to stationary objects. Which means they had some level of understanding they were violating laws that prohibited them from congregating in that space.
You can protest all you want but if you are going to be blocking public roadways and trespassing then you need to talk to a lawyer about what you are allowed to do by right and at what point to cross the line and violate the law.
What was obvious was that the video you showed was spliced in such a way that it edited out anything that could be used to show the protestors were inciting the police to act. Hell, even people screaming obscenities at officers were cut at just the right time from the video so it could not be heard. It’s a nice attempt at propaganda but its sophomoric.

And why oh why must you stupid treehugging morons use that crap about just being peaceful protestors when it’s a ton of ****. Just as the police are trained to use force most granola groups I have encountered in my life, and they have been numerous, teach their members how to “protest” effectively by antagonizing situations in such a manner that they appear to be the victims once they have to be removed from the area. I’ve seen the PVC and bike locks, the mimicked military lines they form to purposely face off with riot control, and the methods they teach to escalate the protest into a confrontation. Its not peaceful in any way shape or form and I am not even mentioning the destruction of property that most of these groups now participate in. They are the ones who knowingly ratcheting up the tension so it becomes violent. They know that’s the only way to get exposure and bring attention to their usually pointless cause.


I personally would have had fun with them. I would have quarantined the area and stopped all further people from entering the protest. These are all a bunch of suburban kids who can afford to waste their weekends whining about issues they have myopic understandings of because they are living off dad’s money. They only have so much dedication to causes once their comfort has to be compromised. Half of them will leave as soon as they realize that no one is giving them the attention they are trying to get to compensate for their parents ignoring them all their lives and the majority of the rest will walk by the time their tummies grumble. Take away their access to food, water, and their cell phones for two days and their halfhearted commitment to protest will be broken forever.

[sideus]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

<snip>

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

It is very much the protesters fault, I mean even when the police have a guy by the neck trying to pull him away the protesters yell "hold onto him" and "I hate you", "you make me sick". They should know that the show is over and move on. Damn hippies.

[goMac]

Edit: never mind, stupid me.

[waxcrash]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

They used three(maybe four) "tricks" I've learned myself in the military. All are harmless if used correctly.

1. Pressure point technique under the mandible. Causes extreme pain(you can try it on a friend if you want) that makes you want to move up from the position you are in. Causes no damage at all except some bruising if done for extended periods.

2. Pressure point technique targeting the arteries going up to the brain. Causes the subject to lose consciousness before any damage is done. Harmless if it's ended when the subject stops resisting or becomes unconscious.

3. "Bitch-fight technique" as we called it. Basically getting a grip of some skin on the sensitive areas of the neck and face and the turn as much as possible. Causes extreme pain but doesn't cause any damage to the subject.

These are hard techniques but after that group didn't stop the assembly they had when ordered to and then resisted arrest the police had to do their thing.

Based on that video, those "tricks" don't look too effective.

[sideus]

Originally Posted by goMac

...why were the police even there?

Probably because someone was being stupid and which required police action.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by sideus

Probably because someone was being stupid and which required police action.

No, actually I realized that UCSC is... University of California, who they were protesting against. So it wasn't condoned by the University. I thought University of Santa Cruise was not related.

Anyway, after I realized the obvious I can see the police were acting within their bounds.

[Dale Sorel]

"Can't we all just get along?"

[sideus]

Could we get the thread title changed to something like "Profoundly scary thread of false accusations"

If that was police brutality, why didn't anyone start beating the crap out of the cops in self defense?

[PacHead]

I suggest they send the footage to America's funniest home videos.

Maybe they'll win $50 bucks, and they can buy themselves a new set of bongos.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by waxcrash

Based on that video, those "tricks" don't look too effective.

Depends on how much restraint you show while applying them

[11011001]

Tent University?

That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Even stupider is letting the students teach a lot of the classes. Do they really think they know better than the professors who have devoted their lives to their particular area of expertise?

Sure Universities are about making money. They have upwards of 20,000 faculty, staff and students in most cases. They are corporations. The money for research, facilities, faculty all has to come from somewhere.



The police brutality? Well, at least it's better than gassing the crowd. It's unfortunate, but I can't really see any other way that they could have removed the students.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by screamingFit

If that was police brutality, why didn't anyone start beating the crap out of the cops in self defense?

Think Kent State, the the National Gurad murdered a bunch of students and got away with it.

[yakkiebah]

That's got to be one of the most boring police breakups i have ever seen.

[Y3a]

<< They were expression their Constitutionally guarnteed rights of peaceful assembly. >>

The rights are more specific than that. Where ar ethe equally 'guarnteed rights' of protection of property?

"Rights" is a term and concept that is misunderstood by a great deal of the ignorant masses. The educational establishments and the media are to blame.

[ender2002]

OOOH NOOO!!!
Stop touching my ears so hard!!!!!

there is nothing "profound" or "scary" about this video as it seems immensly professional. there is no rushing, the police arent beating anyone. no blood. if you see how the police are calmly performing their jobs and notice that the police have no objection with having their actions filmed and photographed, there should be no controversy around this video.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

And why oh why must you stupid treehugging morons

Yeah. Fuck the trees!

[historylme]

That's my old school!

WTF!

I recognized some guys in the footage. Some old timers that are no longer students but a very active in demonstrations. I was in one where a few people got arrested but no "brutality" was used.

Go SANTA CRUZ!

[cacarr1]

I actually think the cop's professionalism should be commended. I waited and waited for something to happen that could be construed as "brutality", but saw nothing.
But I guess my perspective is that of an outsider (i.e., I don't attend Tent University).

[davesimondotcom]

Overall, I would say that I was very impressed by the professionalism shown by the police. They had a job to do, they were doing it, and despite all of the yelling (that one girl in particular "I HATE YOU") and general stupidity of the "students," I didn't see a single police officer lose his/her temper. No guns, boots, billy sticks came out. Just gloved hands.


The only thing profound or scary about this video is the ignorance that the people who think it is profoundly scary show.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Remember the good old 60's where police had hippy beating sticks and nobody had a video camera?

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Remember the good old 60's where police had hippy beating sticks and nobody had a video camera?

Though like back then, protesters do get out of hand and often the police are just in using force to remove them. I mean, protesters when in a mob don't exactly care what they do or whats going on. While I do approve of protesting, by anyone on anything, it has its time and place and proper response. Going onto private property and being disruptive will cause police to respond.

[Rev-O]

Originally Posted by bstone

http://dmedia.ucsc.edu/people/afrojas/tu/

Warning- this is PROFOUNDLY disturbing. Only watch it if you can stomach it (and no, this is not a joke).

I, for one, firmly believe that this video was in no way edited to enhance the case of these poor peaceful souls. Oh, the humanity.
Whatever.
The only thing profoundly disturbing here is the ridulous caveats in your post.

[nforcer]

Hardly "profoundly scary" or a demonstration of "brutality". Tent University is profoundly dumb. These students were far from peaceful and as others have pointed out through their dialogue ("I hate you", etc.) they turned into a crowd of retards pretty quick. I certainly did not see their ideals of "liberty, solidarity, community, and creativity".

"Thank you and thanks to those who continue the struggle" says the page with the video. They went in wanting a fight, and a fight they received. "We, the people, have the power" no, you don't.

What the police did was a tame approach compared to what they could have done. If I were in charge I would have confiscated all cameras then gassed the group that refused to move, them tazered anyone who tried to help them. Certainly seems that would have been a quicker approach than going after each individual through pressure points.

I do have to say though, they have a point about the condition of the University of California. Simply put, it sucks. They UCs accept too many under-qualified students on conditions of athleticism or affirmative action, cost an arm and a leg, and are currently set to be outgrown by an increasing student population. If these people want to change things they should be showing videos of rampant cheating or pointless lectures, and questioning the equality of degrees (a communications major can ace classes without doing much, the same cannot be said for a physics major). However, this seems to be the case with a lot of colleges so perhaps pointing out the UCs in particular will not help that much.

[Rev-O]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Remember the good old 60's where police had hippy beating sticks and nobody had a video camera?

Say, I do remeber those days. The days that police officers were working 48 hour shifts. The days that 'hippies' threw beer bottles filled with cement, molotov cocktails, urine and feces at police officers. The days when protesters refused to cooperate in any way with police and occasionally tried to goad the police into violent action because it made good pub. The days when the media only showed police with hippy beating sticks and the angelic dope smoking protesters. I have some vivid memories of them. Obviously you do not, or you would never make such a naive statement.

[macaddict0001]

It wasn't brutal at all. This is how riot control works. Interesting sidenote:
It is possible that the cops weren't carrying any weapons, because often in riot control someone who shouldn't have a gun will take yours and use it against you. That is why prison guards are unarmed so that in riots 5 guards can take down a prisoner with force instead of guns that may be taken by the prisoners.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I always find the behaviour of protesters like this extremely embarrassing.

[JoshuaZ]

Obviously you've not observed many protests Skywalker. Most people only ever read or hear about the bad ones.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

Obviously you've not observed many protests Skywalker. Most people only ever read or hear about the bad ones.

"protesters like this"