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Legal ID, a bar won't let me in. Advice?
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Avenir
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Nov 30, 2004, 02:43 AM
 
Alright, apologies for typos, I'm so pissed right now I won't catch them.

I attempted to enter a local bar here to celebrate a friend's birthday. 30 min tops I'd be in there. Both doormen will not let me in. Barring any skepticism on your parts, assume (because I am) that I am 23 years old, have a valid Hawaii driver's license that has always been accepted in the past, and that I showed them my student ID (also with picture), as well as three major credit cards with the same name.

They still refused to let me in.

I know they are legally allowed to do this, but has this happened to anyone else? Granted, I will NEVER go back to that bar again, EVER (especially considering I might burn it down tonight), so I shouldn't have this problem again. But seriously, what do I do to "prepare" for the next time. Do I get an Indiana license (I'm in Indiana), do I grow a damn beard?

Ok, venting... but I'm so mad right now, and typing is my only alternative to punching my wall.

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SSharon
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Nov 30, 2004, 02:54 AM
 
odd problem, did you try asking them why they wouldn't let you in? Are you curious enough to call and speak with the management tomorrow to get an answer. It could be something dumb like they had too many men in there and wanted more women or just that the two guys didn't like you. don't let it bother you too much and please don't burn the place down either.
     
Avenir  (op)
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Nov 30, 2004, 03:08 AM
 
Originally posted by SSharon:
odd problem, did you try asking them why they wouldn't let you in? Are you curious enough to call and speak with the management tomorrow to get an answer. It could be something dumb like they had too many men in there and wanted more women or just that the two guys didn't like you. don't let it bother you too much and please don't burn the place down either.
I'm calmer now. Talked to a roommate. We decided setting it on fire wouldn't help

They said my ID was fake, came up with a bunch of things "wrong" with my ID that "real hawaii ID's" have, something with the hologram, etc. anyway, it's my word against theres. I look super young. they were way paranoid tonight (last 4 times there it took 30 seconds to get in), and I think they just didn't believe that a 16-year old kid would have a 23-year old Hawaii ID in the middle of Indiana. I called them tonight, to tell them to fire their doorman, but no one answered. I am considering calling tomorrow, but they could give me a lifetime of free liquor and I'm never going back still. The worst part about it is that as much as I hated it, three houses of my friends live down the street and it's their fav spot to drink, but now I don't ever want to go back, so that hampers hanging out with them. Although I hated it before, now I have another excuse.

Oh, and they let in 5 guys passed me, this is not a place where they balance the ratio, everyone in line (8 people) got passed me while I was being "checked on." One bouncer was a woman, and she kept saying how "young and cute I looked." Crap, this time it didn't pay off for me.

After, I went outside and called my friend inside and was complaining really loud, and a bystander (on her way in) heard me I think, because the bouncer comes out, apologizes, tries to be nice, gives my ID once over again, but then says all smug "nope, still can't." He said to come back when the scanner was working, I told him I'd never come back, and lost my temper andtold him to fcuk off. So, anyway, I'm probably not welcome there no matter what anymore, but oh well. Life goes on. Wow, I typed a lot.

Alright, sh*t, I think it's time I went to bed.

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MilkmanDan
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Nov 30, 2004, 08:41 AM
 
I'd call and complain to them. Or go see them in daylight. Do you have a copy of a birth certificate? Or SS card? Like go visit the place with about 50 forms of ID, and maybe some record from your college. Just to show them up. Maybe you'll get a $20 bar tab.
     
Randman
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Nov 30, 2004, 08:44 AM
 
$20 bar tab? That'll pay for what, two drinks? F'em. Call the management up and complain like hell. Then get your friends to boycott the place.

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MilkmanDan
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Nov 30, 2004, 08:47 AM
 
Originally posted by Randman:
$20 bar tab? That'll pay for what, two drinks? F'em. Call the management up and complain like hell. Then get your friends to boycott the place.
Boycott wouldn't work in a college town. They'd be all like "Ok, leave, we'll just let 5 other people in."

Complaining is good though. Free bar tab is good bar tab.
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 09:00 AM
 
Where in Indiana are you? There have been some issues lately with Excise raids and the bars are getting increasingly paranoid that it's ridiculous.
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winwintoo
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Nov 30, 2004, 09:13 AM
 
If getting stopped from entering a bar is the worst thing that ever happens to you, you'll be lucky, get over it.

Margaret
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 09:16 AM
 
Grow a mustache.
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 09:26 AM
 
I blame Hawaii ID's. The State of Indiana. The Bar. The Bouncers. Your friends for choosing the place and getting older. The shotty scanner.
     
Cody Dawg
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Nov 30, 2004, 09:37 AM
 
Well, first thing is, it's a private establishment so they don't have to let anyone in if they don't want to.

Try going to the nightclub Mansion in Miami. Good luck. I can get in every time. But, my friends sometimes cannot...especially if they're men. I've had to wheedle the bouncer with compliments and once I brought him something to drink from the nearby Starbucks and now they usually let me and all of my friends in right away (I don't go there often, though), but it's because they want to be nice because I was nice to them.

I've found that being nice is sometimes better than being nasty.

Suggestion? Take your license to the nearby police station and have them look it up. Then, once it is verified, get the card of the officer and go over to the club during the day hours. Ask who the owner is. Get in touch with the owner of the club. Be indignant and forthright, but nice. Tell them what happened and that you were refused admittance on your friend's birthday and now his birthday is gone and it was somewhat ruined because of his bouncers and that you even offered to not drink -- you just wanted to celebrate your friend's birthday.

If all else fails, tell us all the name of the club so that we can badmouth them here and all over the internet.

     
Zimphire
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Nov 30, 2004, 09:37 AM
 
Originally posted by Avenir:
I look super young.
That's the problem. Even after I turned 21 I had problems getting into bars. Even with local ID. I didn't look 18 let a lone 21. Always took me forever to get in.

I know it's a pain now. But wait till you turn 30, and people mistaken you for 21. It will be worth it.
     
paully dub
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Nov 30, 2004, 09:41 AM
 
Move to a country with a more mature view on alcohol and the drinking age. Or get your still up and running.

I'm 30 and I STILL get carded, often by people several years younger then me. It's the law, they say, and I supposed to flattered but I'm just tired and annoyed.


Oh yeah, and insulting bouncers? That's always a good idea.

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Nov 30, 2004, 09:44 AM
 
Move to England. Official drinking age is 16. Unofficial drinking age is about 12.
     
Phanguye
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Nov 30, 2004, 09:46 AM
 
Originally posted by Avenir:
I'm calmer now. Talked to a roommate. We decided setting it on fire wouldn't help

They said my ID was fake, came up with a bunch of things "wrong" with my ID that "real hawaii ID's" have, something with the hologram, etc. anyway, it's my word against theres. I look super young. they were way paranoid tonight (last 4 times there it took 30 seconds to get in), and I think they just didn't believe that a 16-year old kid would have a 23-year old Hawaii ID in the middle of Indiana. I called them tonight, to tell them to fire their doorman, but no one answered. I am considering calling tomorrow, but they could give me a lifetime of free liquor and I'm never going back still. The worst part about it is that as much as I hated it, three houses of my friends live down the street and it's their fav spot to drink, but now I don't ever want to go back, so that hampers hanging out with them. Although I hated it before, now I have another excuse.

Oh, and they let in 5 guys passed me, this is not a place where they balance the ratio, everyone in line (8 people) got passed me while I was being "checked on." One bouncer was a woman, and she kept saying how "young and cute I looked." Crap, this time it didn't pay off for me.

After, I went outside and called my friend inside and was complaining really loud, and a bystander (on her way in) heard me I think, because the bouncer comes out, apologizes, tries to be nice, gives my ID once over again, but then says all smug "nope, still can't." He said to come back when the scanner was working, I told him I'd never come back, and lost my temper andtold him to fcuk off. So, anyway, I'm probably not welcome there no matter what anymore, but oh well. Life goes on. Wow, I typed a lot.

Alright, sh*t, I think it's time I went to bed.
what bar was it?
     
Zimphire
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Nov 30, 2004, 09:53 AM
 
Originally posted by Mastrap:
Move to England. Official drinking age is 16. Unofficial drinking age is about 12.
I hear in Germany if you can reach the bar, you can drink. No matter what age.
     
Nivag
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Nov 30, 2004, 10:10 AM
 
Originally posted by Mastrap:
Move to England. Official drinking age is 16. Unofficial drinking age is about 12.
nah official age is 18 - you're right about the unofficial one though, rock on the corner shops!!

my friend and i have been ID, both over 30. we just burst out in laughter and 2 other bouncers rushed out to see what the noise was. once we calmed down and told them our age and showed the only ID we had, which were credit cards, they let us in and got us a drink each.
So best not to get angry. cause i used to be a door barsteward/btch and as soon as someone kicked off, the was Bob Hope of them getting in.
     
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Nov 30, 2004, 10:39 AM
 
...the was Bob Hope of them getting in.


?

     
Cody Dawg
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Nov 30, 2004, 10:40 AM
 
Hey, Avenir, I learned to windsurf right there in Kailua in the bay.

And, is the old drive-in movie theater still working there? That place was cool, right up against the mountain there.

     
iCol
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Nov 30, 2004, 10:40 AM
 
I work behind a bar in the UK. I am 21, but look quite young. Though, I would say I look my age.

I have been ID'd by the Police while working behind the bar. Twice. On both occasions I had to get a manager to convince the cops I was, infact, over 18... and still had to go to the staff room to find my drivers license. My drivers license has a photo of me on it from when I was 17... and looked about 15. Very embarassing.

And, funnily enough, I think I got ID'd less in New York than I do when I am out in London.

Weird.

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Nov 30, 2004, 11:31 AM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
I hear in Germany if you can reach the bar, you can drink. No matter what age.
yeah. and women in europe don't shave their legs/armpits. the things people hear ... tsk, tsk, tsk.



     
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Nov 30, 2004, 12:17 PM
 
Originally posted by Avenir:
...anyway, it's my word against theres...
...
....
....lost my temper andtold him to fcuk off....
...
...Alright, sh*t, I think it's time I went to bed.

They are spelled, respectively, "theirs," "f u c k," and "s h i t." Otherwise impressive keyboarding performance under extraordinary pressure. I cannot relate, but I mean, I thought prohibition ended -- for everyone.

Got your back, buddy. Here's a cold one.
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Sherwin
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Nov 30, 2004, 12:17 PM
 
Originally posted by Cody Dawg:


?

Bob Hope = no hope. Cockney slang, or something like that.
     
milkmanchris
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Nov 30, 2004, 12:52 PM
 
I thought Bob Hope was Soap?


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alex_wlu_82
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Nov 30, 2004, 01:05 PM
 
Originally posted by winwintoo:
If getting stopped from entering a bar is the worst thing that ever happens to you, you'll be lucky, get over it.

Margaret
Right on.
     
Eriamjh
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Nov 30, 2004, 01:22 PM
 
I didn't think Hawaii even had Driver's Licenses. It's really hard to drive between those islands.

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olePigeon
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Nov 30, 2004, 01:28 PM
 
You have to be 16 (in most places) to be able to drink in Germany. Sometimes it's 18, but mostly 16.
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Sherwin
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Nov 30, 2004, 01:34 PM
 
Originally posted by milkmanchris:
I thought Bob Hope was Soap?
The cockneys have discovered soap?
     
DeathToWindows
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Nov 30, 2004, 01:48 PM
 
Yeah, complain to the management... does Indiana do liquer IDs? If so, get one.

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Nivag
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Nov 30, 2004, 02:45 PM
 
Originally posted by Sherwin:
The cockneys have discovered soap?
soap? smoke it, maybe

it's normally used like this.. you've got no hope or Bob Hope, and Bob Hope isn't coming.

but seeing how he's dead, that chance has gone as well!
     
Arty50
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Nov 30, 2004, 03:05 PM
 
I'd be pissed too, but I really can't blame them.

You're showing an out of state ID in a college town. 90% of the IDs they see are going to be from Illinois. And most fakes are always out of state fakes. So the odds are against you. I seem to recall my friends from Hawaii having problems with their real IDs too.

Anyway, you have to think of this in their terms also. If they let you in and you're not 21, the fine is HUGE if they get caught. One of the local dives near my old college used to take care of the cops who came in to drink during the week. When the weekend rolled around, the cops would walk into the bar and issue MIPs to underage drinkers but they would never fine the bar. Nice deal they had worked out.

Also there's one more scenario you can't forget. If they let an underage drinker in, serve him/her alcohol, and said person drives home and gets in an accident, the bar can be held liable. Even if the person wasn't really drunk. It's all because they shouldn't have admitted you in the first place.

Welcome to the world of our litigious society. Underage drinking has always been frowned upon in the US, but it's gotten really bad the last 5 years or so. When I was in high school (10 years ago) we used to get tanked every weekend. Recently, I chaperoned for a friend's high school graduation. They had a keg at the party and his sister couldn't believe it. She said they never had kegs at parties. When I was in school it was rare for a party to not have one. If a kid ****ed up or got in an accident on the way home, people took responsibility for their own actions. But sometime after I graduated, people went sue happy. If a kid got tanked and got in an accident, his parents would sue the parents of the kid who threw the party. Even if the parents weren't home. So parents cracked down and parties became few and far between, at least in comparison to how they used to be.

I could keep going on and on about how screwed up this is, but I'll spare you guys. Frankly I think it just makes things worse. In my observations, if you prevent someone from having something you just make their desire for it worse. I got my stupid drinking phase out of the way early and I'm thankful for it. The phase seems to last longer and be more detrimental when it doesn't happen until college.

Edit: One last thing. Never get on the bad side of a bouncer or bartender.
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Nov 30, 2004, 03:06 PM
 
Are you wearing sneakers and a baseball cap when you go to this place?
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Zimphire
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Nov 30, 2004, 03:25 PM
 
Originally posted by effgee:
yeah. and women in europe don't shave their legs/armpits. the things people hear ... tsk, tsk, tsk.



THEY DON'T!!!

No seriously I heard that about Germany by someone that was stationed there in the 80s.

Might have changed since then.
     
Avenir  (op)
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Nov 30, 2004, 03:33 PM
 
ok, classes done for the day, I can dive into the responses.

Yeah, boycott won't work, they don't need my business, there are enough townies that fill it anyway, and my friends that live nearbyw and to be honest I never really liked it so I'm not crushed. The "bouncer" was a 24 year old kid who said he was at Notre Dame same time as me (grilled me on a lot too, which I passed because, hey, here's a thought, I wasn't lying)... anyway, he was a 'bouncer' only in the sense that he was in my way at the door. I think I could have put up a good fight.

As for the bar, it's a crappy dive, I mean really bad. Club 23 in South Bend (someone asked), and not much more than a one-story barn that has booze. I only went because of her birthday, otherwise it's not exactly my fav. spote

Add to shadiness, called the bar this morning, no one ever answers (it's open though), and it's a realy weird voicemail. I'm thinking they don't like to answer the phone.

I've gotten flack for the Hawaii ID here before, mostly just little jokes, but never this. And I've gotten into this place before. I'll chalk it up to them being overly paranoid, but what pisses me off is that the guy was telling me stuff was wrong on my ID and so it was fake. But it's not. He's the one that obviously hasn't memorized all 50 state licenses just yet... grrr...

I'll get to more responses individually if I missed 'em here. Thanks for all the replies though, I just needed to vent and my housemates were sleeping last night.

edit: sorry about more typos, I'm not on my laptop, and this QWERTY keyboard is giving my DVORAK mind a headache.

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Avenir  (op)
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Nov 30, 2004, 03:36 PM
 
Originally posted by MilkmanDan:
I'd call and complain to them. Or go see them in daylight. Do you have a copy of a birth certificate? Or SS card? Like go visit the place with about 50 forms of ID, and maybe some record from your college. Just to show them up. Maybe you'll get a $20 bar tab.
If it were a big club, nice place, I might consider that, but to be honest, this just gives me another excuse to try and get my friends to go somewhere else when we go out.


EDIT: was thinking about this... I'm debating going back with my passport. I can't see how they could refuse a US Passport, it's got all the info I need on it, and it's damn real, just to show them up, I guess. then never go back
( Last edited by Avenir; Nov 30, 2004 at 03:54 PM. )

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Avenir  (op)
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Nov 30, 2004, 03:36 PM
 
Originally posted by winwintoo:
If getting stopped from entering a bar is the worst thing that ever happens to you, you'll be lucky, get over it.

Margaret
very true... I know the whole "when you're 30, you'll be happy you look 20" thing. Just didn't appreciate it last night.

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Avenir  (op)
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Nov 30, 2004, 03:38 PM
 
Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Hey, Avenir, I learned to windsurf right there in Kailua in the bay.

And, is the old drive-in movie theater still working there? That place was cool, right up against the mountain there.

Drive in closed maybe 10 years ago if i remember. They tore it down and it's a private high school built up on that hill now. Right near my house actually. Glad you liked Kailua, I'll miss living there (check that... I DO miss living there)

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Avenir  (op)
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Nov 30, 2004, 03:39 PM
 
Originally posted by ASIMO:
They are spelled, respectively, "theirs," "f u c k," and "s h i t." Otherwise impressive keyboarding performance under extraordinary pressure. I cannot relate, but I mean, I thought prohibition ended -- for everyone.

Got your back, buddy. Here's a cold one.
Thanks for the drink.

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Avenir  (op)
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Nov 30, 2004, 03:40 PM
 
Originally posted by Eriamjh:
I didn't think Hawaii even had Driver's Licenses. It's really hard to drive between those islands.
I know you. You're one of the other bouncers at another local bar

har har har. Soon as I have permanent residence, I think I'll get a local ID.

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CMYKid
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Nov 30, 2004, 04:31 PM
 
for the longest time, and maybe it's changed (I kwit making ID's years ago) Hawaii was one of the easier ones to counterfeit for a varity of reasons... Not as easy as vermont or delaware, I think they actually make those by hand, but still one of the easier ones. Also they obviously see a lot fewer valid HI licenses to compare to the fake one...
     
Avenir  (op)
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Nov 30, 2004, 04:42 PM
 
Originally posted by CMYKid:
for the longest time, and maybe it's changed (I kwit making ID's years ago) Hawaii was one of the easier ones to counterfeit for a varity of reasons... Not as easy as vermont or delaware, I think they actually make those by hand, but still one of the easier ones. Also they obviously see a lot fewer valid HI licenses to compare to the fake one...
yeah, it's true. my freshmen year (4 yrs ago) I knew maybe a dozen other frosh with fakes that were from Hawaii. Old Hawaii license was pretty easy I guess, but about the time I got mine they switched to the new ones. Seem a lot harder to fake.



All the stuff he pointed out as being wrong last night is the same on here (no signiature over the photo, space before the DOB, etc.). I can't find an image of the old hawaii license on the 'net, but maybe that was more what he had in mind. Hell, if that kid/bouncer was my age, maybe he was one of the ones with an old Hawaii fake.

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Avenir  (op)
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Nov 30, 2004, 04:44 PM
 
double post

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Nov 30, 2004, 11:23 PM
 
Oh boy, guess what I have to look forward to. I'm 18 almost 19 but people usually think I'm 13 or 14. They ask what grade I'm in and I have to tell them I'm in college. It sucks. I'm surprised they don't card me for R rated movies. Hell, I'm surprised they don't card me for PG-13 movies. If I was in your position, I'd raise some hell with that bar.
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Brien
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Dec 1, 2004, 12:07 AM
 
I know how it is... I'm 19 but everyone takes me for 15... ALWAYS get carded when I go to clubs... go figure.
     
Avenir  (op)
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Dec 1, 2004, 12:40 AM
 
Originally posted by webcookie:
Oh boy, guess what I have to look forward to. I'm 18 almost 19 but people usually think I'm 13 or 14. They ask what grade I'm in and I have to tell them I'm in college. It sucks. I'm surprised they don't card me for R rated movies. Hell, I'm surprised they don't card me for PG-13 movies. If I was in your position, I'd raise some hell with that bar.
Turns out a friend of mine, who drinks there a lot (to put it mildly). He goes, sh*t, I know that stupid bi*ch that was working the door..." the continues to rant about her. He promised he'd give her hell for me tonight, so I at least have that going for me, but then I probably won't go back no matter what.

As for looking young, I get harassed, teased about it, but in the 2 years since I turned 21, this is the first time it went even close to this far. I think what made it worse too is that I was in Italy before 21, almost a year there, so I've been able to legally drink for going on 3 or 4 years now, so it just seemed like ******** that my maturity was questioned. Ah well, it's over now, I'm going to boston this weekend and I intend to get into bars there to make up for it

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CMYKid
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Dec 1, 2004, 02:32 AM
 
i honestly cant remember the last time I was in ANY bar or club where they asked for ID or anything... it's odd to know every single bartender and doorperson in a three state radius, but not necessarily bad...
     
MrForgetable
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York City, NY
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Dec 1, 2004, 03:02 AM
 
i'm the exact opposite.

i was 13 at the comp usa apple store and they asked me if i wanted to hold a powermac dual 1.25 with just my credit card and my driver's license. i said i didn't have either and that i was only 13 years of age. "oh my, i'm sorry, you don't look a day under 21. " you can imagine what it's like now when i turn 16 in january.
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d4nth3m4n
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Dec 1, 2004, 06:14 AM
 
Originally posted by Avenir:
yeah, it's true. my freshmen year (4 yrs ago) I knew maybe a dozen other frosh with fakes that were from Hawaii. Old Hawaii license was pretty easy I guess, but about the time I got mine they switched to the new ones. Seem a lot harder to fake.



All the stuff he pointed out as being wrong last night is the same on here (no signiature over the photo, space before the DOB, etc.). I can't find an image of the old hawaii license on the 'net, but maybe that was more what he had in mind. Hell, if that kid/bouncer was my age, maybe he was one of the ones with an old Hawaii fake.
i have that exact id in that picture. i have also had troubles with bouncers on this one. but now i am working as a bouncer so maybe i can shed some insight onto this one. first off, if the bar is worth their salt they will have a current ID book (in which they can see the layout and features of the card). not to mention a black light. the bar i work at does not have a scanner, but they do have a blacklight and a book. i'm 95% sure that i have never screwed up carding someone.

what you need to know about your ID-
* under blacklight it says "aloha state" and has a hibiscus icon.
* it also shimmers "aloha state" when you turn it in the light.

i really feel for you man, i almost had mine cut up right before my eyes here in NY. but i made enough of a fuss and threatened to call the cops if they did it. (how the hell would i fly back to HI to get a new one without a drivers license?) finally, with the cops there, they let me in and i got the weakest drinks all night. but i still go back to that bar and they all remember me, so that's a plus.

i think what you do is (assuming you do have the same id as i do with all the new snazzy features, unlike the old school one where your license number is also your SS#) tell them that you're from hawaii, point out where your birthdate is (NOBODY can find that damn thing) and be civil.

and i have to say that the bouncer sounds like a dick, i don't see why you couldn't back up who you are and not be believed. you have backup, many many forms of backup. nah, the hell with this post, boycott that bar.

next time, be sure to ask to speak to the manager on call as well. you might get a free shot if nothing else.

shoots.
     
badidea
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Location: Hamburg
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Dec 1, 2004, 06:50 AM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
THEY DON'T!!!

No seriously I heard that about Germany by someone that was stationed there in the 80s.

Might have changed since then.
Both is true! They DO shave here in Germany (well, most of them) but if you see a traveller chick with hairy legs, she usually is from a german speaking country!


And to make the alcohol thingy more clear:

- drinking age for beer and wine (and similar stuff) is 16!
- drinking age for liquor (and other "hard" stuff) is 18!
- "if you can reach the bar, you get a drink" is almost true!
- since nightclubs are usually open way until after midnight (or open end), you're required to be 18 to get in!
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Eriamjh
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Dec 1, 2004, 08:27 AM
 
I think it was mentioned, but why don't you get a state ID (not a drivers license, but just an ID) just for clubbing?

Make sure you take a really bad picture so they'll be assured it is real!

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