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Sick of Immigrants that ....
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Athens
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Dec 11, 2004, 03:32 AM
 
Any one notice how many immigrants come here and never learn the ways of the land. Im sure this also applies to Americans in the south too. Im not so much worried about older generations that come here and never learn English, itís the ones that come here, have kids here and there kids never learn a word of English. I also donít mind signs in Chinese as long as there is English with it, but I do draw the line when entire neighborhoods get transformed into Chinese or Korean and you feel like a outsider in the city you grew up in. Another thing that really pisses me off is how drivers licenses are issued. The tests are in most languages, and a translator is there to help them through it. On its own thatís not so bad I guess but time after time the translator is actually helping them pass there test and people that have no right being on the road end up on the road. Case in point, most people speed up in a merge lane when entering a freeway, but I have on more then one occasion come across a idiot that stops and puts there turn signals on to turn into the freeway instead of matching speed and merging. Im all for immigration but I think its time to force English (French for Quebec) as a mandatory requirement before citizenship. And Immigrants that reply to this all upset and saying this is unfair or racist, at least you can read this and understand and reply there fore I am not talking about you.
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Spliffdaddy
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Dec 11, 2004, 04:25 AM
 
I agree about the drivers license testing. It wouldn't be an issue except for the fact that pretty much 100% of the road signs are written in English. You NEED to be able to read English in order to operate a motor vehicle safely.

As far as the foreign languages found in 'China-towns' and 'Korea-towns' and 'Mexico-towns' are concerned, I don't think it's a real problem. If anything, it adds to the culture of a city. While not always welcome by locals, it doesn't do much harm.

The US has got to be the most difficult country in the world to survive in - if you don't know the language. A smart immigrant would understand the necessity of their children to learn English if they expect them to have the option of venturing beyond their non-English-speaking community. It's a big handicap and it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

That being said, I don't believe illegal immigrants should be entitled to any government services nor drivers licenses. Those should be reserved for folks that follow the rules, not those that skirt them.
     
Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 04:38 AM
 
Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I agree about the drivers license testing. It wouldn't be an issue except for the fact that pretty much 100% of the road signs are written in English. You NEED to be able to read English in order to operate a motor vehicle safely.

As far as the foreign languages found in 'China-towns' and 'Korea-towns' and 'Mexico-towns' are concerned, I don't think it's a real problem. If anything, it adds to the culture of a city. While not always welcome by locals, it doesn't do much harm.

The US has got to be the most difficult country in the world to survive in - if you don't know the language. A smart immigrant would understand the necessity of their children to learn English if they expect them to have the option of venturing beyond their non-English-speaking community. It's a big handicap and it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

That being said, I don't believe illegal immigrants should be entitled to any government services nor drivers licenses. Those should be reserved for folks that follow the rules, not those that skirt them.
I wasent talking about China towns, and Korean towns. Picture this, you live in suburbia, about 30 minutes out of the main city. For 90 years its been all english business and signs. Then over a 10 year span all that has changed and is now all in Korean and worse when you are in these stores that use to be english own stores they give you a different set of prices and treat you differently. Now if you have grown up there and are suddenly finding yourself excluded because your white, it will piss you off too. China town is a different story, for one its been China town for a 100 years, and it wasnt converted, it orginiated as. I agree about the government services too. Taxes are what pay for the services and illegals dont pay income tax to pay for the services. We shouldnt have to pay for them when they didnt earn the right by doing things the legal way.
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TeknoTurd
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Dec 11, 2004, 06:37 AM
 
The problem is lack of assimilation. It bugs the hell out of me too. People shouldn't move here, refuse to learn the language or have it taught to their children and expect to be catered to.
     
Randman
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Dec 11, 2004, 06:48 AM
 
Originally posted by TeknoTurd:
The problem is lack of assimilation. It bugs the hell out of me too. People shouldn't move here, refuse to learn the language or have it taught to their children and expect to be catered to.
Funny. People in other countries say that about English-speaking expats.

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Luca Rescigno
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Dec 11, 2004, 07:52 AM
 
I don't see the problem with having large non-English speaking communities. Or rather, large communities where English is not the primary/only language. Learning the language here is very important and a basic knowledge should be required for immigrants. That is, as long as they know about what you'd learn from a crash course in the language, therefore demonstrating their willingness to learn. I think it's important that immigrant families are allowed to keep their culture intact, and part of that involves teaching their native language to their children. But there are a lot of bilingual people and there's nothing stopping these families from teaching their children to be bilingual as well.

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Abu Bakr
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Dec 11, 2004, 07:58 AM
 
Just a question.

On what do people base the assumption that immigrants don't learn the language? Is there any data on that on the net?
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Dec 11, 2004, 08:30 AM
 
Spanish will be the number 1 language in the USA in a few years. Maybe it's time for you English speakers to start learning the language of your country.
     
Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 08:31 AM
 
Originally posted by Abu Bakr:
Just a question.

On what do people base the assumption that immigrants don't learn the language? Is there any data on that on the net?
Not sure if there is any data on the net, personal experience its pretty high. There are 2 types of immigrants. Those that are of the older kind that would prob never learn the lang, which I don't really mind, and the younger ones that start families here. My problem is a kid that goes to a muslim school or a chinese school and never learns a word of english when he is born here. And for signage its only fair that signs be in the native countries lang as well as what ever they like.
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Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 08:33 AM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
Spanish will be the number 1 language in the USA in a few ears. Maybe it's time for you English speakers to start learning the language of your country.

ROFL sorry but english is the international language not spanish. And Spanifornia (California) dosent represent the entire USA.
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winwintoo
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Dec 11, 2004, 09:51 AM
 
Originally posted by Athens:
Any one notice how many immigrants come here and never learn the ways of the land. Im sure this also applies to Americans in the south too. Im not so much worried about older generations that come here and never learn English, itís the ones that come here, have kids here and there kids never learn a word of English. I also donít mind signs in Chinese as long as there is English with it, but I do draw the line when entire neighborhoods get transformed into Chinese or Korean and you feel like a outsider in the city you grew up in. Another thing that really pisses me off is how drivers licenses are issued. The tests are in most languages, and a translator is there to help them through it. On its own thatís not so bad I guess but time after time the translator is actually helping them pass there test and people that have no right being on the road end up on the road. Case in point, most people speed up in a merge lane when entering a freeway, but I have on more then one occasion come across a idiot that stops and puts there turn signals on to turn into the freeway instead of matching speed and merging. Im all for immigration but I think its time to force English (French for Quebec) as a mandatory requirement before citizenship. And Immigrants that reply to this all upset and saying this is unfair or racist, at least you can read this and understand and reply there fore I am not talking about you.
As a fellow (English speaking) Canadian, I feel I have the right, if not the obligation to poke some holes in your argument.

You used the two-word term "any one." I believe you meant to say "anyone." The one-word form means "any person" while the two-word form means only one person of a group.

You left out the apostrophe in "I'm."

You use use the spelling "there" which refers to a place when you mean to use the spelling "their" which is a possessive.

It is common practice to start a new paragraph when you change the subject. It lets your readers know that what follows is talking about something different and makes your essay more readable.

You say "there fore" when you meant to say "therefore" (one word, not two).

The word "immigrant" would only be capitalized if it is the first word of a sentence or part of a title.

There are also punctuation errors, and you've used the American spelling of "neighbourhoods," which is fast becoming the accepted standard.

So you see, Mr. Athens, it isn't just the "immigrants" that don't speak (or in your case, write) proper English.

After reading your message, I was left wondering if the problem you were addressing was the use of English or the improper use of merge lanes. For what it's worth, I see many non-immigrant Canadians misusing both.

Margaret
     
Mithras
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Dec 11, 2004, 10:11 AM
 
Athens, what other languages to you speak?
     
chris v
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Dec 11, 2004, 10:24 AM
 
I was in a restaurant in Mexico about six years ago when a twenty-something Entitlement Boy at the next table over loudly proclaimed "Why don't these people learn English? After all, we're in their country supporting them by spending money!"I had to restrain myself.

Here's a hint for ya'll: Let law-abiding citizens and residents live their life the way they want to.

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
chris v
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Dec 11, 2004, 10:28 AM
 
Originally posted by Athens:
I wasent talking about China towns, and Korean towns. Picture this, you live in suburbia, about 30 minutes out of the main city. For 90 years its been all english business and signs. Then over a 10 year span all that has changed and is now all in Korean and worse when you are in these stores that use to be english own stores they give you a different set of prices and treat you differently. Now if you have grown up there and are suddenly finding yourself excluded because your white, it will piss you off too. China town is a different story, for one its been China town for a 100 years, and it wasnt converted, it orginiated as. I agree about the government services too. Taxes are what pay for the services and illegals dont pay income tax to pay for the services. We shouldnt have to pay for them when they didnt earn the right by doing things the legal way.
1. You poor, poor put-upon rich white jerk.

2. Change is bad. Everything should Stay The Way It Was.

3. Please observe the difference between legal and illegal immigration.

4. This one may shock you: There's TERRIBLE rich, white drivers EVERYWHERE!

What this boils down to is: You're a bigot.

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 10:30 AM
 
Originally posted by winwintoo:
As a fellow (English speaking) Canadian, I feel I have the right, if not the obligation to poke some holes in your argument.

You used the two-word term "any one." I believe you meant to say "anyone." The one-word form means "any person" while the two-word form means only one person of a group.

You left out the apostrophe in "I'm."

You use use the spelling "there" which refers to a place when you mean to use the spelling "their" which is a possessive.

It is common practice to start a new paragraph when you change the subject. It lets your readers know that what follows is talking about something different and makes your essay more readable.

You say "there fore" when you meant to say "therefore" (one word, not two).

The word "immigrant" would only be capitalized if it is the first word of a sentence or part of a title.

There are also punctuation errors, and you've used the American spelling of "neighbourhoods," which is fast becoming the accepted standard.

So you see, Mr. Athens, it isn't just the "immigrants" that don't speak (or in your case, write) proper English.

After reading your message, I was left wondering if the problem you were addressing was the use of English or the improper use of merge lanes. For what it's worth, I see many non-immigrant Canadians misusing both.

Margaret
take a look at what time I posted smart ass, notice its 2am, 3am, 4am, graveyard shift means im pretty tired all the time specially whem im posting quickly between tasks.
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Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 10:33 AM
 
Originally posted by chris v:
I was in a restaurant in Mexico about six years ago when a twenty-something Entitlement Boy at the next table over loudly proclaimed "Why don't these people learn English? After all, we're in their country supporting them by spending money!"I had to restrain myself.

Here's a hint for ya'll: Let law-abiding citizens and residents live their life the way they want to.

Thats a little different, im not talking about making the world speak english, im talking about people coming here learning to speak what our national lang is.
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Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 10:39 AM
 
Originally posted by chris v:
1. You poor, poor put-upon rich white jerk.

2. Change is bad. Everything should Stay The Way It Was.

3. Please observe the difference between legal and illegal immigration.

4. This one may shock you: There's TERRIBLE rich, white drivers EVERYWHERE!

What this boils down to is: You're a bigot.
LOL the funny thing is orginal migrants that came here 40 years ago feel the same way. They didn't come here orginally to turn the city into China, they left china to live in a different place. Now in the last 10 years hudge portions of the city has been turned into semi chines towns. How would you feel if you had to learn chinese in your own city just to function? well... First off im not rich, im about as poor as you can get with out being a street person. Second of all im not a jerk in anyway just for wanting to be able to go into any dam store and be able to read things in my native and my countries language. And legal or illegal, whats the difference, the end result is the same. And I didnt get that last one you said, about the white drivers? huh?
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Dec 11, 2004, 10:39 AM
 
By 2125, the majority of the United States population is projected to be Hispanic. Rich old white guys are going to have to get used to the fact that they're not going to run this country forever.
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Dec 11, 2004, 10:49 AM
 
I'm with Athens on this one.
     
Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 10:51 AM
 
Originally posted by KarlG:
By 2125, the majority of the United States population is projected to be Hispanic. Rich old white guys are going to have to get used to the fact that they're not going to run this country forever.
Im pretty sure any one that refers to the common middle class American/Canadian as Rich White guys are prob Hispanics, seems to have this common tone to the statement.

Netherlands and Canada are by far the worst at allowing immigrants to segregate themselves from the mainstream society, becoming pockets of there own societies within a society never learning the customs or languages of there host country which in no way forced them to move there. The United States isnít quit as bad, they attempt to naturalize citizens which until recently I was always opposed too. But the same results are occurring there too. Most countries donít allow this. Try and turn 6 sq blocks in Japan into a English only area or French only area. It wont happen.
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winwintoo
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Dec 11, 2004, 10:53 AM
 
Originally posted by Athens:
take a look at what time I posted smart ass, notice its 2am, 3am, 4am, graveyard shift means im pretty tired all the time specially whem im posting quickly between tasks.
No need to be abusive Mr. Athens.

If you are too tired to make sense, perhaps you should take a deep breath and think about something else.

I'm curious why a Canadian would be using his sig to support a US presidential candidate. We are a separate country after all.

The point Chris V made about terrible rich white drivers is just that. There are terrible drivers of all ages, all ethnic groups, all social backgrounds, all lifestyle persuasions. Being an immigrant with a poor grasp of the English language does not necessarily translate into poor driving skills any more than being born and educated in Canada translates into the ability to communicate effectively or drive defensively.

Have a nice day eh!

Margaret
     
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Dec 11, 2004, 11:06 AM
 
Originally posted by Athens:
Im pretty sure any one that refers to the common middle class American/Canadian as Rich White guys are prob Hispanics, seems to have this common tone to the statement.

Netherlands and Canada are by far the worst at allowing immigrants to segregate themselves from the mainstream society, becoming pockets of there own societies within a society never learning the customs or languages of there host country which in no way forced them to move there. The United States isnít quit as bad, they attempt to naturalize citizens which until recently I was always opposed too. But the same results are occurring there too. Most countries donít allow this. Try and turn 6 sq blocks in Japan into a English only area or French only area. It wont happen.
Is English your native tongue?
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Randman
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Dec 11, 2004, 11:08 AM
 
Ask an American Indian about immigrants.

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Dec 11, 2004, 11:10 AM
 
Lack of assimilation is the discussion?

Try living down here in Florida where we actually had to have a vote on whether or not the state's "official language" would be English!

And Miami? Forget English there. It's actually an extension of any Latin country - pick one - and you better not expect them to read or write English.

They're moving northward, also.

As they do, people who do speak English move northward and away or form pockets. Like Boca Raton. Palm Beach. Jupiter. Port St. Lucie. Wellington. Delray Beach. You get the point which is that there is NO "assimilation" because people tend to live in communities where they can communicate with each other.

Now, on the other hand, I have a hard time finding fault with certain ethnic communities. Like the Chinese. The Koreans. Any Asian race - pick one.

They work hard. They value education. They don't live on welfare. They tend to stay out of trouble. They are the same as the Jews many years ago. The Jews came here and worked hard and established themselves by virtue of hard work and values.

Why? Because Jews learned English and attempted to assimilate themselves. I suspect that the Asian minorities will one day be the same. We are at the beginning of a big assimilation process with the Asians.

Now, the Hispanics are another story. For some reason, some of them do not think they should have to assimilate into our society. Maybe that's because there are so many of them living in areas, taking over entire cities, like Miami and parts of Los Angeles.

And President Bush is a loser when he wants to just let more Hispanics in the country and look away when they come here illegally.

to President Bush for that.

     
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Dec 11, 2004, 11:18 AM
 
You should be a little more clear when you group "hispanic" in a racist rant.

As someone of Hispanic heritage, that was terribly offensive to read. My father's ancestors came to the US in the late 1800s. My mother's side came in pre-Revolutionary War times. As a "Hispanic", I'm willing to wager that I can speak and read and write English far better than you. I can also read and write and speak Spanish and I can speak in Mandarin with a touch of German, French, Bhasa and Thai throw in.
I'm also willing to wager that I know a good deal more about American history that many people as well.
Ignorance begets racism, plain and simple.
But you should be more wary of grouping in such a diverse racial group as Hispanic, since many (as in my parents' ancestors' case) are from European lineage.

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Dec 11, 2004, 11:23 AM
 
Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Now, the Hispanics are another story. For some reason, some of them do not think they should have to assimilate into our society. Maybe that's because there are so many of them living in areas, taking over entire cities, like Miami and parts of Los Angeles.

And President Bush is a loser when he wants to just let more Hispanics in the country and look away when they come here illegally.

to President Bush for that.

Sheesh. Are you for real?
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Dec 11, 2004, 11:28 AM
 
Oh, and another community that does well when they come here?

East Indians.

They are always doctors and engineers and they have close families.

Their children are always clean and studious. Some speak better English than Americans. Especially down here in Cracker Barrel land.

     
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Dec 11, 2004, 11:32 AM
 
Yes, I am for real.

Hispanics do not assimilate -- or even try to -- here in Florida.

It gets REALLY old after a while. Like arguing about why they should have to learn English. They actually think that the driver's license test should be given in Spanish only down there.

Uh, the road signs are in ENGLISH. We don't go by colors and shapes.



And my comment about the border between the U.S. and Mexico being porous is a serious one and I really disrespect and disagree with Bush about that. It's a problem. Here we are trying to push retina scans for normal people coming in and out of airports but in Mexico you can just drive over the border, no questions asked.

     
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Dec 11, 2004, 11:42 AM
 
Immigrants should learn English and assimilate. From experience, it's usually not the Chinese or Indians that come over here that cause the language problem. They come over here and in a week they're winning spelling bees and talking a decent level English.

SoÖthat only leaves the rest that are not learning english.
     
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Dec 11, 2004, 11:44 AM
 
The original post was so vague, and Mr. Athens ability to communicate so impaired, I still don't know if this thread is about ethnic groups who refuse to learn English or about ethnic groups who are bad drivers.

There is no excuse for someone raised and educated in Canada to continue to misuse "there," "they're," and "their" in their written communication and to run all their sentences into one long, unreadable paragraph.

Many immigrants who speak English with an accent communicate with more clarity than you ever will.

Shame on you Mr. Athens.

Margaret
     
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Dec 11, 2004, 11:53 AM
 
Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Hispanics do not assimilate -- or even try to -- here in Florida.
They are not obliged to. They are just taking back the land you have stolen from Mexico.
     
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Dec 11, 2004, 11:58 AM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
They are not obliged to. They are just taking back the land you have stolen from Mexico.
The state of Florida was purchased in 1821 with the Adams-Onis Treaty. Florida never belonged to the Cubans or any other Carribean country. It was the property of the Spanish empire. It became a state in 1845.

Go read a history book.

[Same goes for every other country in the Southwest. We bought and payed for every acre.]
     
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Dec 11, 2004, 12:12 PM
 
Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
Same goes for every other country in the Southwest. We bought and payed for every acre.
You grabbed Texas and took away the states in the south west in the American-Mexican aggression war. You took away Cuba and Puerto Rico from Spain in the American-Spanish aggression war. Florida was Spanish before it was American.

The Spanish speaking population has every right to take back their land.
     
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Dec 11, 2004, 12:23 PM
 
This is now officially the stupidest thread of the week.
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Dec 11, 2004, 12:35 PM
 
Originally posted by Joshua:
This is now officially the stupidest thread of the week.


Glad I was able to contribute to the betterment of the community.

Margaret
     
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:13 PM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
You grabbed Texas and took away the states in the south west in the American-Mexican aggression war. You took away Cuba and Puerto Rico from Spain in the American-Spanish aggression war. Florida was Spanish before it was American.

The Spanish speaking population has every right to take back their land.
No, we let Cuba self-govern with the Teller-Platt Amendment. They have no right to take any land away, and anyone plotting such a thing should get a little ticket back to where they came from. They want to take the land back? None of those countries would last a week with a war against us. Besides, wouldn't taking the land back the same thing as the US supposedly taking the land away? What about all the Indians that you guys sympathize with? Spain wasn't exactly nice to Indians in their territories. Hell, if they could, the Spanish would have used them for slave labor, but due to the lack of immunities to Western viruses, blacks were used in their place.

Immigrants used to assimilate to get a better life. I say we cut off everything: drivers liscenses, rights to public office, non-emergency medical care, welfare, medicade, medicare, education--everything--from illegals, all of whom should be deported. Hell the 14th amendment needs a bit of revising.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
I'd like to see "with an exception to all persons illegally in the country" added there. This daisy-chain crap is sucking state government money away.




Besides, what would Europe look like if we applied your tortured logic? It's not likely that you'll want other countries pushing you off your land.
     
SimpleLife
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:15 PM
 
Originally posted by Athens:
take a look at what time I posted smart ass, notice its 2am, 3am, 4am, graveyard shift means im pretty tired all the time specially whem im posting quickly between tasks.
Yep, which says that English language and the audience you communicate with deserve less respect because it is late at night.
Then, one may wonder why immigrants should be forced to use rules you cannot respect yourself.
     
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:16 PM
 
Originally posted by winwintoo:
No need to be abusive Mr. Athens.

If you are too tired to make sense, perhaps you should take a deep breath and think about something else.

I'm curious why a Canadian would be using his sig to support a US presidential candidate. We are a separate country after all.

The point Chris V made about terrible rich white drivers is just that. There are terrible drivers of all ages, all ethnic groups, all social backgrounds, all lifestyle persuasions. Being an immigrant with a poor grasp of the English language does not necessarily translate into poor driving skills any more than being born and educated in Canada translates into the ability to communicate effectively or drive defensively.

Have a nice day eh!

Margaret
It makes sense, just bad english and grammer. BTW Im also dislexic and (there) is a word I never get right in its context.
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Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:17 PM
 
Originally posted by Randman:
Ask an American Indian about immigrants.
Why don't you ask a Canadian's First Nation that too.
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SimpleLife
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:20 PM
 
Originally posted by Athens:
Im pretty sure any one that refers to the common middle class American/Canadian as Rich White guys are prob Hispanics, seems to have this common tone to the statement.

Netherlands and Canada are by far the worst at allowing immigrants to segregate themselves from the mainstream society, becoming pockets of there own societies within a society never learning the customs or languages of there host country which in no way forced them to move there. The United States isnít quit as bad, they attempt to naturalize citizens which until recently I was always opposed too. But the same results are occurring there too. Most countries donít allow this. Try and turn 6 sq blocks in Japan into a English only area or French only area. It wont happen.
The Canada I want to live in is open to people of other cultures, and requires of me such openness that I may adopt some of their customs if I see fit to do.
     
Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:20 PM
 
Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Lack of assimilation is the discussion?


Now, on the other hand, I have a hard time finding fault with certain ethnic communities. Like the Chinese. The Koreans. Any Asian race - pick one.

Well Vancouvers problem is East Indians and Chinese. About 65% of the city, thats over a million are Asian decent.
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SimpleLife
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:23 PM
 
Originally posted by Athens:
Well Vancouvers problem is East Indians and Chinese. About 65% of the city, thats over a million are Asian decent.
The problem you seem to mention may have more to do with a sense of having your cultural identity under threat and a loss of a context that would usually be entertaining a continuity you can recognize and to which you could respond to.
     
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:29 PM
 
Originally posted by SimpleLife:
Yep, which says that English language and the audience you communicate with deserve less respect because it is late at night.
Then, one may wonder why immigrants should be forced to use rules you cannot respect yourself.
When did I say they hard to learn perfect english? Just enough to communicate, understand laws, signs, general information should be enough.

Comment bon vous parlez franÁais?
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Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:40 PM
 
Originally posted by SimpleLife:
The Canada I want to live in is open to people of other cultures, and requires of me such openness that I may adopt some of their customs if I see fit to do.
Thatís my view too, how can you confuse the issue to badly, I am not talking about making them dump there culture, just make English a requirement for citizenship and laws like Quebecís French laws that state that all signs must include the language of the land along with what ever language they want on it. My 2 best friends are Turkish and Iranian, my other good friends are East Indian, Chinese, Pilipino, Cuban... they all agree with this as well, they all had to learn English to survive here and prosper, and none of them gave up there culture, Abi still speaks Iranian at home, still hangs out with Persians, eats Persian, my buddy Turkay speaks Turkish at home, still eats and watches Turkish movies, none of that was lost for them. Why the hell does a Richmond teen who was born here 15 years ago has to go to school in ESL (English Second Language) and not know a single word of English? Doesnít that disturb you. And what about a East Indian store that only hires East Indians, if your anything else, white, black, Chinese they refuse to hire you, they just throw your resume away because your not east Indian, same for Chinese stores and Philippines stores.
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Athens  (op)
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:45 PM
 
Originally posted by SimpleLife:
The problem you seem to mention may have more to do with a sense of having your cultural identity under threat and a loss of a context that would usually be entertaining a continuity you can recognize and to which you could respond to.

So your telling me I should move because to many of them came over and made my city into China East? Where would I go, South to United States of Mexico?

Im sorry but if I decide to move to France, I learn French and integrate into there society, to think I can change there cities into English is arrogant and rude of me. If I move to Japan I have a expectation that I will need to learn some Japanese to function, to force my gracious hosts that accepted me into there society to learn English and do things my way, sorry thatís just wrong. So why do we have to accept it from them. They move here, they should be under the same expectations that we would if we moved there.
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macintologist
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:50 PM
 
Originally posted by Randman:
You should be a little more clear when you group "hispanic" in a racist rant.

As someone of Hispanic heritage, that was terribly offensive to read. My father's ancestors came to the US in the late 1800s. My mother's side came in pre-Revolutionary War times. As a "Hispanic", I'm willing to wager that I can speak and read and write English far better than you. I can also read and write and speak Spanish and I can speak in Mandarin with a touch of German, French, Bhasa and Thai throw in.
I'm also willing to wager that I know a good deal more about American history that many people as well.
Ignorance begets racism, plain and simple.
But you should be more wary of grouping in such a diverse racial group as Hispanic, since many (as in my parents' ancestors' case) are from European lineage.
I am also of Hispanic heritage (Mexican), and I say poo on any immigrant who doesn't try to assimilate into their host nation. I'm really sick and tired of this PC ********. If companies want to put Spanish on the phone cards because it will be a better sell to the non-assimilated (poo on them) then that's fine, but the line is crossed when the government tries to accommodate these people. What sickens me more is how Bush is practically encouraging illegal immigration. While I oppose sending back hard-working illegal immigrants who are actually the backbone of the border-state economies, we should at least be working to secure our border and prevent further illegal immigration.

And for Gods sake, why isn't knowing English a requirement for citizenship?

And one more thing, with regards to a point you made previous. Poo on any American or English-speaker who moves to another country and doesn't learn the native language.
     
CreepingDeth
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Dec 11, 2004, 01:55 PM
 
Originally posted by macintologist:
I am also of Hispanic heritage (Mexican), and I say poo on any immigrant who doesn't try to assimilate into their host nation. I'm really sick and tired of this PC ********. If companies want to put Spanish on the phone cards because it will be a better sell to the non-assimilated (poo on them) then that's fine, but the line is crossed when the government tries to accommodate these people. What sickens me more is how Bush is practically encouraging illegal immigration. While I oppose sending back hard-working illegal immigrants who are actually the backbone of the border-state economies, we should at least be working to secure our border and prevent further illegal immigration.

And for Gods sake, why isn't knowing English a requirement for citizenship?

And one more thing, with regards to a point you made previous. Poo on any American or English-speaker who moves to another country and doesn't learn the native language.


Totally agrreinatedô
     
macintologist
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Dec 11, 2004, 02:02 PM
 
Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
Totally agrreinatedô


     
aberdeenwriter
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Dec 11, 2004, 02:45 PM
 
Originally posted by Randman:
You should be a little more clear when you group "hispanic" in a racist rant.

As someone of Hispanic heritage, that was terribly offensive to read. My father's ancestors came to the US in the late 1800s. My mother's side came in pre-Revolutionary War times. As a "Hispanic", I'm willing to wager that I can speak and read and write English far better than you. I can also read and write and speak Spanish and I can speak in Mandarin with a touch of German, French, Bhasa and Thai throw in.
I'm also willing to wager that I know a good deal more about American history that many people as well.
Ignorance begets racism, plain and simple.
But you should be more wary of grouping in such a diverse racial group as Hispanic, since many (as in my parents' ancestors' case) are from European lineage.
Randman, I'm pleased at your accomplishments and I'm sure no one here has ranted 'racist' quite yet. (I haven't read the thread all the way down yet. lol) Most everyone would have absolutely NO problem with Hispanic immigrants if they were like you.

However, if that is true, then you must ask yourself if the problem we have (Cody, myself and others) is with the hispanics as such, or with those who are NOT as industrious or interested in assimilation as you are.

You know better than most, there are THOUSANDS of hispanic immigrants (some legal, others not) who live in enclaves in most US cities where they can watch Novellas and Noticias all day long, who can listen to Hispanic music radio stations, go to la tienda and buy any and every food and product they want from 'back home' then pay the Spanish speaking clerk, they can go to the bank and then do any and all of their business without speaking English.

If they don't HAVE to speak English, why bother learning it at all???

In discussions like this throwing the R word is almost like throwing the N word in a discussion of blacks. Easy to lob it, devastating when you do, there's no defense for it and it's seldom accurate. It's a low blow.

Here's a little something from the Paul Revere Society. I don't know that I agree with EVERYTHING they say, but the do make some points worthy of thought and pertinent to this discussion.

The Paul Revere Society

Borders * Language * Culture

The Paul Revere Society brings together Americans who actively seek to take back our borders, our language, and our traditional culture from the liberal left corroding our great nation.

We as Americans inherited a country built on a lust for liberty and compassionate conservative values. At the Paul Revere Society, we understand that our freedom is not only our right, but also our responsibility. We refuse to sit back and watch liberalism trump ethics and morality through blatant ignorance and judicial arrogance. We will not let the earth around us quake as the Founding Fathers roll over in their graves every time the left attacks our schools, our faith, our national security, and, most importantly, our families.

The liberal left is ashamed of our past, uncertain of our future, and lacks respect for the principles of personal responsibility. The America WE belong to cherishes our nation's rich history and is confident in our potential. We share a love for the values that still resonate throughout the United States: free market capitalism, religious faith, individual liberty, and the idea that all are created equal and endowed by our Creator.

We believe in the Sovereignty of our Nation; that English is the national "glue" that holds us together, and that the Bible, the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights and what they stand for are our common cultural heritage.

The Paul Revere Society fosters a unique opportunity for Americans to assert the values inherent in these pillars of freedom. Through grassroots organization and active chapters nationwide, we will be successful in bucking back liberalism by protecting our borders, language and culture. Liberty is infectious, it is our job to spread it and defend it.

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/Membership.html


MEN AND WOMEN PROTECTING AMERICA
1. Support Traditional Marriage
2. Close the Borders now.
3. Deport all illegal immigrants now.
4. Eliminate bilingual education in all states.
5. Require health tests for all recent foreign born immigrants.
6. Make tax cuts permanent.
7. End Affirmative Action
8. Tort Reform - Stop Class Action Lawyers.
Some say that the borders are arbitrary, English is only one of many languages in our new "Multicultural America," and that we share no common history or values.
Sponsor The Paul Revere Society Now!
You can help make our voice heard.
Your sponsorship includes free merchandise (shown above), more than the cost of sponsorship.
The Paul Revere Society is a non profit organization as described in section 501(c)(3). All contributions and donations to our organization are tax deductible.
The United States is threatened
and the PRS stands for the reassertion of our borders, our language, and our traditional culture.
Consider these posts as my way of introducing you to yourself.

Proud "SMACKDOWN!!" and "Golden Troll" Award Winner.
     
macintologist
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Dec 11, 2004, 02:56 PM
 
That was some pretty sick stuff aberdeenwriter. Constitutionalist conservative bigots like those of the Paul Reverse society do not have a monopoly on patriotism. It was funny how they talked about liberty and then traditional marriage in the same sentence.
     
 
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