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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Give Airbus 380 a wink! [JPEG orgy]

Give Airbus 380 a wink! [JPEG orgy] (Page 5)
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chabig
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Jan 16, 2005, 05:24 PM
 
Originally posted by glideslope:
Chris,

Nice piece. Where have you seen that the 7E7 (787) is going to have Side Sticks? The information I have seen states a Yoke Control system?
I haven't seen any information. I'm just speculating. If it comes out with a yoke, I'll be very surprised. However, they might do it to make the cockpit just like the 777.

Chris
     
exca1ibur
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Jan 16, 2005, 06:15 PM
 
Originally posted by chabig:
I haven't seen any information. I'm just speculating. If it comes out with a yoke, I'll be very surprised. However, they might do it to make the cockpit just like the 777.

Chris


...He stated that the Boeing 7E7 cockpit will be identical to the Boeing 777 cockpit. The Boeing 7E7 will have back driven control yokes with same part number as the_ Boeing 777. Boeing plans to develop dual ratings for Boeing 777 and Boeing 7E7 so that pilots can fly a Boeing 777 on one day or a Boeing 7E7 on another... [ More... ]
     
chabig
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Jan 16, 2005, 07:25 PM
 
OK. So they've decided to standardize the Boeing cockpit much like Airbus has. It's too bad they didn't start by making the 777 with a sidestick. Unfortunately, they listened to the wrong people. However, there is a lot of benefit in having standard cockpits.

Chris
     
glideslope
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Jan 16, 2005, 10:06 PM
 
Belly up to a bar, down a beer or two, and 7 out of 10 ATP pilots will tell you they prefer a Yoke. A Side Stick is less of an expense to design into a FBW FC system. The commonality of the FD on the Buses is far more involved than simply the Side Sticks. The displays, switchgear, breaker placement, window size and placement all contribute to the Buses FD. The FD on the 380 is roughly the same height as the 346/332 on a mid-level between the two main decks. This allows pilots to have similar depth perception while ground maneuvering. Again, one of many contributing factors in Bus FD commonality.



It's nice to see this thread in here. A fresh direction, so to speak.
( Last edited by glideslope; Jan 16, 2005 at 10:13 PM. )
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chabig
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Jan 16, 2005, 10:51 PM
 
Originally posted by glideslope:
Belly up to a bar, down a beer or two, and 7 out of 10 ATP pilots will tell you they prefer a Yoke.
Seven out of ten pilots who've never used a stick will tell you they prefer a yoke.

Chris
     
glideslope
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Jan 16, 2005, 11:52 PM
 
Ok.
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Mc Arthur
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Jan 17, 2005, 06:19 AM
 
Originally posted by chabig:
Seven out of ten pilots who've never used a stick will tell you they prefer a yoke.

Chris
Exactly. Besides, many stick pilots prefer the stick above the yoke, and wouldn't want to revert back to the yoke.
Main reason? Airbii have a little folding table in the place where Boeing planes (and the A300, the onliest Airbus with a yoke) have the yoke. It's great to eat, and do some paperwork

As for the A380, rollout ceremony is tomorrow... and here's the schedule: (all times are GMT +1)

08:30
Joint press conference with Nol Forgeard, Airbus President and Chief Executive Officer, and A380 customer Chief Executive Officers.

11:00
Arrival of Heads of State and Governments
- Mr Jacques Chirac, President of the French Republic
- The Right Honourable Tony Blair, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
- His Excellency Mr Gerhard Schrder, Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany
- His Excellency Mr Jos Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, President of the Government of the Spanish Kingdom

11:05
Beginning of ceremony.
Aircraft Reveal. Inauguration of the aircraft.

12:35 End of ceremony.

Can't wait
     
Goldfinger
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Jan 17, 2005, 06:42 AM
 
Originally posted by Mc Arthur:
Airbii
I hope this was a joke.

EDIT: anybody know where the word "cockpit" comes from ?
( Last edited by Goldfinger; Jan 17, 2005 at 06:48 AM. )

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veryniceguy2002
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:00 AM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
What interface? Aren't these parts simply screwed together?
It's not just as simple as screwed the two parts together!

When two sections are about to join together, they have to check and ensure all screw points does line up (with tolerance of no more than 1-2mm). You cannot just screw it and hope everything will be OK if it is out of tolerance, otherwise it causes extra stresses to the joints and bolts which would affect the aircraft's structure intactgey...

Also, cable connections needs to be checked, the shape between the two section need to be matched...

In fact, the work that badidea do is extreme important! It's called integration!!

BTW, this should of work is not Airbus and European specific... Boeing would have to do similar things when they join two sections of their aircraft together as well!

PS (Sorry, can't resist it ) The winglets section (I cannot recall what's the European name for winglets... can you please tell me badidea?), of the A380 is manufactured in Australia!
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:07 AM
 
Originally posted by Goldfinger:
I hope this was a joke.

EDIT: anybody know where the word "cockpit" comes from ?
Dude, you can buy yourself an internet these days.

My google at home said this:

Cockpit


The original sense of this term was a pit for fighting cocks. This sense appears around 1587. In 1599, Shakespeare used the term in Henry V to refer to the theater and specifically the area around the stage. The theatrical reference was his invention, obviously playing on the idea of a cockfight being a performance.


The nautical sense arose about 1700. It was not an open area, but rather a compartment below decks. Normally, it would be the sleeping quarters for junior officers, but in battle would be the hospital. This sense appears unrelated to the theatrical sense, and may have been chosen because junior officers lorded over the sailors like roosters or because of a physical resemblance to the space where chickens were kept. The nautical sense transferred to airplanes around 1914 and to cars in the mid-1930s.
(from www.wordorigins.org)
     
voodoo
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:07 AM
 
I'm proud Spain is in on the A380 - it had completely escaped me. Pleasant surprise

I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
veryniceguy2002
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:19 AM
 
BBC always has good coverage on stuff like that:
Airbus unveils giant A380 plane

There's a few interesting links and pictures in that article, too. Worth a read.
     
TETENAL
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:19 AM
 
I have been looking for what this yoke is on the Internet, and found this article, where an Airbus crashed, because the pilots could not override the auto-pilot:

http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publ...ya/nagoya.html
     
badidea
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:22 AM
 
Originally posted by veryniceguy2002:
It's not just as simple as screwed the two parts together!

When two sections are about to join together, they have to check and ensure all screw points does line up (with tolerance of no more than 1-2mm). You cannot just screw it and hope everything will be OK if it is out of tolerance, otherwise it causes extra stresses to the joints and bolts which would affect the aircraft's structure intactgey...

Also, cable connections needs to be checked, the shape between the two section need to be matched...

In fact, the work that badidea do is extreme important! It's called integration!!

BTW, this should of work is not Airbus and European specific... Boeing would have to do similar things when they join two sections of their aircraft together as well!
Very good post!
My job does not only exist because AIRBUS does design and build their airplanes all over Europe (and the rest of the world) - Boeing also does work with many suppliers all over the world!
Then again, when I check the routing of electrical harnesses for example, it also doesn't matter that the french and german parts have to be connected - you never make them one piece throughout the whole lenght of a plane - those interfaces do always exist!
Originally posted by veryniceguy2002:
PS (Sorry, can't resist it ) The winglets section (I cannot recall what's the European name for winglets... can you please tell me badidea?), of the A380 is manufactured in Australia!
Great question!
Everyone I asked just showed me this face:
We call them winglets!
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TETENAL
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:28 AM
 
Originally posted by badidea:
Yep, the french make the cockpit and center fuselage, the germans the front and after fuselage (between cockpit and wing and between wing and fin), the english the wing and the spanish the fin... (design and manufacturing)!
Darn, we make the least ambitious part. Schrder sux.

But nevertheless, somewhere the overall design of the hole plane must be made. It's not like the the French make "any" cockpit, the English some wings and the Spaniards a random fin, then you make them connect and the hope the thing flies. Someone must make an overall design of the plane. Who does that?
     
veryniceguy2002
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:37 AM
 
Originally posted by badidea:
Very good post!
My job does not only exist because AIRBUS does design and build their airplanes all over Europe (and the rest of the world) - Boeing also does work with many suppliers all over the world!
Then again, when I check the routing of electrical harnesses for example, it also doesn't matter that the french and german parts have to be connected - you never make them one piece throughout the whole lenght of a plane - those interfaces do always exist!
Well, for people who still puzzled why joining two sections means so much... have a look at the DVD Battle of the X-Plane and see how JSF teams uses laser to guide the joining of sections of JSF planes together!

Originally posted by badidea:
Great question!
Everyone I asked just showed me this face:
We call them winglets!
It might not be European as such... probably more British specific... I remember I heard it either from a TV documentary or radio Science/Technology program mentioned there is a technical name in Britian for it... and the American just called it Winglets! Now, don't tell my boss that I don't know the European (or British) name for Winglets, or I could be in trouble
     
veryniceguy2002
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:52 AM
 
Originally posted by FulcrumPilot:
http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/747/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747
http://www.aircraft-info.net/aircraf...oeing/747-400/

Its about 57, 285 gallons, max capacity. But the B744's can actually go non-stop from point a to point b anywhere in the world, eg. London, UK to sydney, Australia, which is 11,185 miles. so in this case the mileage is== 78.1 mpg per passenger!!!
No! Wrong! Stop!!

Yes, Boeing 747-400 has flown from London to Sydney non-stop... once!
That was done by QANTAS as a special one-off trip. That flight has reduced weight (only carried about 40 something passengers). Normally QANTAS flight from UK to Australia has to stopped in Singapore, Bangkok or Hong Kong to refuel. An Airbus A330 (another QANTAS) has flown once from Toulouse, France to Melbourne, Australia non-stop as a delivery flight. Of course, without any passenger or cargo, it can fly a lot further than normal operation!

The current longest commerical operating regular flights are Singapore Airlines from Singapore to New York and vice versa using A340-500, and actually it is also reduced weight flight (no more than 200 passengers).

As far as I know, no commerical airline or plane manufacturer is brave enough to try London to Auckland, New Zealand non-stop (11390 miles or 18331 km or 9898 nautical miles)
( Last edited by veryniceguy2002; Jan 17, 2005 at 07:57 AM. )
     
Sven G
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Jan 17, 2005, 08:02 AM
 
...Airbii...? Hmmm...

Latine, " la Sven", dicitur:

Aerbus / Aerbi

Aerbi / Aerborum

Aerbo / Aerbis

Aerbum / Aerbos

Aerbe / Aerbi

Aerbo / Aerbis

... O Aerbe! Avis optima et maxima!

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Mastrap
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Jan 17, 2005, 08:03 AM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
I have been looking for what this yoke is on the Internet, and found this article, where an Airbus crashed, because the pilots could not override the auto-pilot:

http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publ...ya/nagoya.html

Did not, not could not.
     
badidea
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Jan 17, 2005, 08:20 AM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
Someone must make an overall design of the plane. Who does that?
Jrgen Thomas(german) is known as the father of the A380!
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mrtew
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Jan 17, 2005, 08:34 AM
 
Originally posted by badidea:
Jrgen Thomas(german) is known as the father of the A380!

I've always wondered how much of the plane is "styled" and how much is "engineered" as far as its external appearance. Car exteriors have to function in several different respects but the look is mainly the result of styling. It seems that commercial planes exteriors have a much more functional nature than cars', but some are truly beautiful, [like the A380] while some are pretty ugly... even though the function is pretty much the same for all. Are there actually airplane stylists, or just some engineers with a better eye for beauty or is it just in the eye of the beholder?

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badidea
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Jan 17, 2005, 08:47 AM
 
Originally posted by mrtew:
I've always wondered how much of the plane is "styled" and how much is "engineered" as far as its external appearance. Car exteriors have to function in several different respects but the look is mainly the result of styling. It seems that commercial planes exteriors have a much more functional nature than cars', but some are truly beautiful, [like the A380] while some are pretty ugly... even though the function is pretty much the same for all. Are there actually airplane stylists, or just some engineers with a better eye for beauty or is it just in the eye of the beholder?
I don't really have an answer for you but I just had a similar discussion with colleagues about 30min ago because we thought that the A380 looks kind of conventional. There is nothing revolutionary except the double deck and this partly already existed since the 747!
The new Boeing 7E7 on the other hand does have a much more modern way of look - I still think that the A380 is a beauty though!

Form always has to follow function when you design an airplane!
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driven
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Jan 17, 2005, 04:30 PM
 
Of course the 7E7 is:

- Much smaller
- Holds far less people
- Has a much shorter range
- Only has 2 motors. (Which isn't a problem until one shuts off during flight)

I like the 7E7, but it seems like another "been there, done that" airplane, whereas at least the A380 seems to be breaking new ground. (for the first time in a long long time.)

Boeing was going to develop a "superliner" jet, then they backed off and said they were going to "stretch" the 747 again .... then they said "wait, there is no market for big aircraft any more ...."

I wonder how they feel now that orders for the A380 are rolling in. (UPS just purchased a whole bunch of them for cargo ... I would imagine at least part of this is for their new venture into China)
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badidea
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:25 PM
 
Originally posted by driven:
Of course the 7E7 is:

- Much smaller
- Holds far less people
- Has a much shorter range
- Only has 2 motors. (Which isn't a problem until one shuts off during flight)

I like the 7E7, but it seems like another "been there, done that" airplane, whereas at least the A380 seems to be breaking new ground. (for the first time in a long long time.)

Boeing was going to develop a "superliner" jet, then they backed off and said they were going to "stretch" the 747 again .... then they said "wait, there is no market for big aircraft any more ...."

I wonder how they feel now that orders for the A380 are rolling in. (UPS just purchased a whole bunch of them for cargo ... I would imagine at least part of this is for their new venture into China)
Very good informed!
I was just talking about the looks of the A380, not the features!
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FulcrumPilot  (op)
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Jan 17, 2005, 07:49 PM
 
Originally posted by veryniceguy2002:
No! Wrong! Stop!!

Yes, Boeing 747-400 has flown from London to Sydney non-stop... once!
That was done by QANTAS as a special one-off trip. That flight has reduced weight (only carried about 40 something passengers).

yeah, I was exaggerating for sure. But I went back to reality in my later posts to put the point across without exaggerations, I hope you noticed.
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voodoo
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Jan 18, 2005, 08:41 AM
 
OK here's hoping the A380 isn't as buggy as the Airbus website is with Safari. Eeew. Can't watch the live ceremony, can't register to win an A380 large-scale model, can't do very much of the fun stuff! (They are using Microsith servers of course - .asp everything)

Anyway the A380 has been unveiled now and in a Steve-Jobsian fashion it won't actually be available until later, even though you can pre-order one now

Haven't seen any photos from the event exept this one from the BBC web



I was looking forward to see the new Airbus livery.
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Spheric Harlot
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Jan 18, 2005, 08:50 AM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
OK here's hoping the A380 isn't as buggy as the Airbus website is with Safari. Eeew. Can't watch the live ceremony, can't register to win an A380 large-scale model, can't do very much of the fun stuff! (They are using Microsith servers of course - .asp everything)
live ceremony is over, so I can't vouch for that, but everything else seems to work fine here on Safari.

Methinks the servers were just getting hammered.
     
voodoo
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Jan 18, 2005, 09:03 AM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
live ceremony is over, so I can't vouch for that, but everything else seems to work fine here on Safari.

Methinks the servers were just getting hammered.
I know it is over. It didn't work on Safari while the ceremony was happening, probably server-hammering as you suggest since I tried to connect on a Wintel too with that Internet Explorer and it was no go there either. Pics anyone?
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badidea
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Jan 18, 2005, 09:22 AM
 
Yeah, server was hammered - even we here at AIRBUS haven't been able to see anything!!
At least we have our private (all A380 employees) life show tomorrow!
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Jan 18, 2005, 09:32 AM
 
Originally posted by Mastrap:
That's not exactly true. The major international hub airports, Heathrow being a prime example, are rapidly running out of slots. Larger aircraft are a solution to that problem. On long haul there is a huge demand for larger, more luxurious planes. From what I know the increased interior space will actually benefit the passenger, with bars and common areas becoming the norm in most configurations.

Also, the A380 is vastly more fuel efficient then anything else in the air at the moment - mile for mile it needs less fuel per passenger than your average family saloon car does.
Yikes! just what Heathrow needs, twice as many people arriving at one time so the lines at the passport checks can be twice as long

I was on an Airbus 300 last summer and it was a sweet ride! Every seat had it's own entertainment center, but Northwest opted for the "cram as many seats as possible" option so we still had the clod in front of us with his seat slammed back and his greasy hair falling in our soup.

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Jan 18, 2005, 09:36 AM
 
Originally posted by winwintoo:
Yikes! just what Heathrow needs, twice as many people arriving at one time so the lines at the passport checks can be twice as long
For us EU passport holders that won't make much of a difference.
But seriously, Heathrow is already so incredibly busy, I don't think this will make much of a difference to anybody.
Personally I try and avoid it whenever I possibly can. Stanstead is my favourite airport in the UK.
     
driven
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Jan 18, 2005, 09:39 AM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
OK here's hoping the A380 isn't as buggy as the Airbus website is with Safari. Eeew. Can't watch the live ceremony, can't register to win an A380 large-scale model, can't do very much of the fun stuff! (They are using Microsith servers of course - .asp everything)

Anyway the A380 has been unveiled now and in a Steve-Jobsian fashion it won't actually be available until later, even though you can pre-order one now

Haven't seen any photos from the event exept this one from the BBC web



I was looking forward to see the new Airbus livery.
Quite honestly, nothing wrong with IIS & ASP or ASP.NET. (We'll ignore the IIS security holes for the moment.) It's a pretty good web-development platform.

There's no reason that it shouldn't support Safari as much as any other browser.
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Jan 18, 2005, 09:42 AM
 
Virgin Atlantic have announced they are having A380's, I think its 6 or 8 planes ordered.


It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
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Jan 18, 2005, 10:34 AM
 


Who's the guy to the left?
     
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Jan 18, 2005, 10:43 AM
 
Originally posted by Mastrap:
Personally I try and avoid it whenever I possibly can. Stanstead is my favourite airport in the UK.
That means going to Essex. Ewww!

I remember a school trip to Stanstead when I was a kid when I lived in Suffolk. This would have been about 1978. At that time the airport was dead, dead, dead. They went literally hours between flights and there were none for the entire duration of our tour.

I imagine it has changed a bit since then.
     
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Jan 18, 2005, 10:47 AM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
Who's the guy to the left?
Looks like the BIG BOSS!

Nol Forgeard
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SimeyTheLimey
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Jan 18, 2005, 02:23 PM
 
French President Jacques Chirac called the A380 "a veritable liner of the skies."
CNN

In other words, an "air-liner."

     
TETENAL
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Jan 18, 2005, 02:47 PM
 
As far as I know, it is not yet known whether this thing flies at all. This will be very interesting in April.
     
badidea
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Jan 18, 2005, 03:25 PM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
This will be very interesting in April.
March (hopefully)!
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FulcrumPilot  (op)
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Jan 18, 2005, 03:33 PM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
As far as I know, it is not yet known whether this thing flies at all. This will be very interesting in April.
These days you can make a brick fly if you throw in enough computing power into it to manage its thrust for any desired flight profile!! If you have such humongous wingspan it only becomes easier.
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Jan 18, 2005, 05:11 PM
 
The wonder of subsidies.

Now then, before they start puffing their chest out and beating it, let's see if it flies. And how many of these planes do they need to sell to even break even? I heard around 250 planes, just to break even. Wow.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 18, 2005, 05:17 PM
 
Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
The wonder of subsidies.
same as boeing.

looks like both companies will have to fly on their own soon, seeing as both sides of the Atlantic have complained about the others' subsidies.
     
CreepingDeth
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Jan 18, 2005, 05:45 PM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
same as boeing.

looks like both companies will have to fly on their own soon, seeing as both sides of the Atlantic have complained about the others' subsidies.
Now that's Capitalism.
Imagine that. Companies not relying on the government to do business. Oooops, don't say that to Amtrak.
     
driven
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Jan 18, 2005, 08:33 PM
 
The fact that Amtrak can't make money in spite of the HUGE price that they charge for tickets is very disappointing.

(I love trains!)
- MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.3Ghz / 256SSD (Work laptop)
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C.A.T.S. CEO
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Jan 18, 2005, 08:59 PM
 
Amtrak is for the secneic route, see the contyside the wafting hills the butifle rivers, can't see that in a plane.Amtrak ROCKS!!!
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spatterson
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Jan 18, 2005, 09:46 PM
 
Originally posted by C.A.T.S. CEO:
Amtrak is for the secneic route, see the contyside the wafting hills the butifle rivers, can't see that in a plane.Amtrak ROCKS!!!
Who wants to pay $$$ for a 3 day trek across the united states? They need to lower prices, and improve amities before I would ever consider it.
     
C.A.T.S. CEO
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Jan 18, 2005, 09:50 PM
 
yes I would
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voodoo
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Jan 19, 2005, 06:55 AM
 
Originally posted by driven:
The fact that Amtrak can't make money in spite of the HUGE price that they charge for tickets is very disappointing.

(I love trains!)
I love trains too!!
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 19, 2005, 08:16 AM
 
Originally posted by C.A.T.S. CEO:
butifle
sorry, but that is just spectacular.
     
theolein
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Jan 19, 2005, 09:30 AM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
sorry, but that is just spectacular.
Agreed. It takes the English language to a whole new level.
weird wabbit
     
 
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