[C.A.T.S. CEO]

The modem they installed is also a router, but I already have a router (Airport Extreme). The base station is reporting a error "Double NAT" meaning that its connected to another network. It asks me to put it in bridged mode but the base station works fine as it is, should I just set it up to ignore this error or should I switch it to bridged?

[Sherman Homan]

You have the Department of Redundancy Department. Your two routers will get in an electronic fist fight over DHCP, NAT, forwarding ports, etc, etc. You need to decide which router is going to run the show. Verizon FIOS routers need a lot of digging around to change their SSID, WEP and channel.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan 

You have the Department of Redundancy Department. Your two routers will get in an electronic fist fight over DHCP, NAT, forwarding ports, etc, etc. You need to decide which router is going to run the show. Verizon FIOS routers need a lot of digging around to change their SSID, WEP and channel.

But why can't I just run it in bridged mode? I don't see the problem running it without bridged mode, as it works fine.

[mduell]

If it asks you to switch to bridged mode, why not switch to bridge mode?

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by mduell 

If it asks you to switch to bridged mode, why not switch to bridge mode?

Well, 1. I don't know how to do that, 2. I don't know if I'll loose some function that can only be used in regular mode, and 3. Its working fine right now.

[Sherman Homan]

1) This is the evil realm of WDS. Which is supposed to work with any 802.11x compliant wireless device. And doesn't always, yielding hours of frustration.
2) Nope, it just passively passes through requests to the real router. Sometimes used to extend the range of wireless, so it is actually very handy.
3) But you mentioned the Double NAT error... which I thought was the point of the post.
One question, FIOS in the Boston area is almost always set up with WEP, can you change to WPA?

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan 

1) This is the evil realm of WDS. Which is supposed to work with any 802.11x compliant wireless device. And doesn't always, yielding hours of frustration.
2) Nope, it just passively passes through requests to the real router. Sometimes used to extend the range of wireless, so it is actually very handy.
3) But you mentioned the Double NAT error... which I thought was the point of the post.
One question, FIOS in the Boston area is almost always set up with WEP, can you change to WPA?

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not using WDS.



Thats the FIOS modem/wireless router combo. I do not use the wireless as I don't know the password. I use the Airport for wireless. The upper white cable is a ethernet cable going to the base station.



The white cable to the left is the ethernet cable from the modem. The blue cable (if you can see it) heads to my wired linux box.

The Airports light is blinking because its WAN port is connected to one of the modem's LAN ports. The internet still works, and I don't want to use the FIOS modems wireless.

[abbaZaba]

just make the fios router stop handling DHCP. that'll solve all your problems. and why would you not know the wireless password to your own network?

[ghporter]

Open AirPort Admin Utility. Click on the Network tab. UNCHECK the "Share a single IP address" box. Back out. Have a nice day. You've just turned your AirPort device into a wired-to-wireless bridge.

Now call your provider's tech support and get them to give you the stupid password so you can properly administer your home network.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Open AirPort Admin Utility. Click on the Network tab. UNCHECK the "Share a single IP address" box. Back out. Have a nice day. You've just turned your AirPort device into a wired-to-wireless bridge.

Now call your provider's tech support and get them to give you the stupid password so you can properly administer your home network.

But will I loose the ethernet ports on the back? And the USB port?

Edit: but how do I do that in Airport Utility? (I have the AE wireless N, not G)

[Sherman Homan]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not using WDS.

You are right, I don't get it, if you are using a router that is giving you NAT errors then bridge it, if you don't need the bridge, sell it. The password is right there on the back of the modem. The ethernet ports one the FIOS router are there for you to use as you see fit. They will hand out an IP connection to what ever device is connected. The USB port is freaking worthless. It seems to be for admin only, I could never get it to handle a printer or a drive.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO 

But will I loose the ethernet ports on the back? And the USB port?

Edit: but how do I do that in Airport Utility? (I have the AE wireless N, not G)

No, you won't lose any functionality. You're just shutting off the router functionality because you already have a router.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

No, you won't lose any functionality. You're just shutting off the router functionality because you already have a router.

Do you, or anybody else, know how to do this in Airport Utility?

[Peter]

Open AirPort Admin Utility. Click on the Network tab. UNCHECK the "Share a single IP address" box. Back out. Have a nice day. You've just turned your AirPort device into a wired-to-wireless bridge.

There is a difference?

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by Peter 

There is a difference?

Yes.

[ghporter]

Are you talking about the AirPort Assistant versus the Admin Utility? Why is the Admin Utility not a choice? (I do not have any AirPort base stations, so I want to know.)

[besson3c]

CATS:

loose = the opposite of tight
lose = the opposite of win, to be without

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Things I've figured out about Bridged mode:

1. It doesn't work.

2. You can connect to the internet, wired or wireless.

It seems the FIOS router won't let a bridged router connect to it as I tried another router in bridged mode and it didn't work. If anybody would like to help me force the base station back to its original configuration, the help would be appreciated.

[Tomchu]

Double NAT'ing is going to cause you problems in the future when you want to unfirewall some ports for some reason or another.

I'm not sure if the Airport has multiple Ethernet ports on the back, but if it does, plug the cable in from the FIOS router to one of the LAN ports, not the WAN port. That way the Airport should just act as a wireless access point and a switch.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

Double NAT'ing is going to cause you problems in the future when you want to unfirewall some ports for some reason or another.

I'm not sure if the Airport has multiple Ethernet ports on the back, but if it does, plug the cable in from the FIOS router to one of the LAN ports, not the WAN port. That way the Airport should just act as a wireless access point and a switch.

Tried that, but the FIOS router will have nothing of that.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO 

Things I've figured out about Bridged mode:

1. It doesn't work.

2. You can connect to the internet, wired or wireless.

It seems the FIOS router won't let a bridged router connect to it as I tried another router in bridged mode and it didn't work. If anybody would like to help me force the base station back to its original configuration, the help would be appreciated.

Please explain what you mean by saying that bridged mode "doesn't work." In what way and how did you determine this?

Please also give context for #2.

By "forcing" the base station back to "its original configuration" are you referring to returning it to its factory settings? There's a reset button for that, and the manual gives good directions for how to use it. If you mean returning to its "previous" (before going bridged) condition, that should be as easy as undoing what you did to bridge it.

I'd still like to know why you said that you needed to use the AirPort Assistant rather than the Admin Utility...

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Please explain what you mean by saying that bridged mode "doesn't work." In what way and how did you determine this?

Please also give context for #2.

By "forcing" the base station back to "its original configuration" are you referring to returning it to its factory settings? There's a reset button for that, and the manual gives good directions for how to use it. If you mean returning to its "previous" (before going bridged) condition, that should be as easy as undoing what you did to bridge it.

I'd still like to know why you said that you needed to use the AirPort Assistant rather than the Admin Utility...

What I meant when I said bridged didn't work was that the FiOS router somehow blocks bridged routers from connecting. If you don't know already, VZ blocks port 80 on home subscriptions to prevent home businesses from getting the less expensive home subscription and forcing them to get the business subscription if they want to host a website. I figured that blocking bridged routers is another attempt to block home businesses buy only allowing 4 wired computers from connecting.

Also, I don't think Airport Admin Utility works with the newer base stations.

[ghporter]

I do not see how they could block what you connect on the LAN side of the modem/router. It looks just like a computer. It doesn't use any special ports. It doesn't use any special protocols. All it does is translate between wired and wireless-just like the wireless part of the modem/router.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I do not see how they could block what you connect on the LAN side of the modem/router. It looks just like a computer. It doesn't use any special ports. It doesn't use any special protocols. All it does is translate between wired and wireless-just like the wireless part of the modem/router.

Well, apparently the FiOS modem can tell if a bridged router is connected, because none of the routers will connect.

[macroy]

Is that a ActionTec router you have? I have the same one, and I have a Linksys wireless router and an AP connected to it (bridged) for wireless access - works flawlessly. I'm not using the Wireless on the Verizon router since its in the basement. But the two APs are connected to the back of the verizon router.
That router is actually pretty nice, there are a LOT of features for it. You should have gotten the password for your router, if not, just put it back to the factory settings (as indicated above) and reconfigure it with your own username/password.

Have you tried a Linksys or other type of AP with the router?

And as far as I know, there is abslutely nothing being blocked by Verizon on my LAN side. I have 16 devices connected to my home network, this include two wireless bridges, and two switches. None are being 'blocked' from talking to the Verizon router. In fact, I would say any blocking that's being done on the WAN side (i.e. port 80) would be done over at the Verizon end. I've looked at my router configs, and there are absolutely no rulesets from Verizon on there.

BTW - you can check verizon for the latest firmware updates for your router. Not saying this will help your case, but its always good to keep things up to date.

[neon_duke]

Originally Posted by macroy 

Is that a ActionTec router you have? I have the same one, and I have a Linksys wireless router and an AP connected to it (bridged) for wireless access - works flawlessly. I'm not using the Wireless on the Verizon router since its in the basement. But the two APs are connected to the back of the verizon router.

OK, that's what I wanted to know, I think. The Verizon guys you talk to before you buy aren't exceptionally helpful (nobody's Mac guys ever really are).

I've got a two-APX wireless network here in the house. Upstairs is a robot iMac which connects on its wireless card. In bedroom #2 is an older iMac which is connected by ethernet to a bridged base station. Downstairs is an old G4/450 which is connected by ethernet to the main base station. The main base station is connected by ethernet to the current DSL modem. There's also a PB with built in wireless. Lastly, near the PS2 is a wall-pack AirPort station which is connected to the PS2's network adapter via ethernet.

My original thought ws to simply unplug the DSL modem and plug in the FiOS modem instead, and let the existing AirPort network keep doing its thing. The Verizon droid didn't think I'd be able to do that. He was trying to say for the older iMac I'd have to buy a USB wireless antenna, etc. which sounded like hooey to me.

If the ActionTec router will accept bridged AP base stations, then I suppose I could put the main base station away and bridge the other two to the FiOS router, and connect the G4 desktop via ethernet directly into the back of the router.

Correct? I know enough to get it working, but not enough to know if I've got it working well.

How is the FiOS router administered on a Mac? Is it a browser-based control system, or does the AP Admin utility see it?

Anybody with any tips, PLEASE let me know what the best setup would be before I order the 15mbps/TV/phone package. Right now I'm getting 1.1-1.4 mbps with DSL. Thanks in advance for your help.

[desertmac]

So here's what I have:

1. Verizon FIOS Actiontrec router connected via coaxial cable to the internet. I have disabled its wireless mode via the web-based set up.
2. First Airport Extreme Base Station connected in Bridge Mode to the Actiontrec. The ethernet cable runs from the first LAN port on the Actiontrec to the WAN port on the AEBS. (This is the one place where I am not sure whether I should connect to the WAN or the LAN port on the AEBS, but so far so good).
3. Second Airport Extreme Base Station set to extend the network of the first AEBS.
4. Two additional Airport Express stations set up for air tunes.

I have two Macbook Pros and one Powerbook that connect to this network, all wirelessly. So far working well. I typically get 15 MB speeds on downloads. The stability has been a little erratic at times, (speedds going as low as 3 MB download, but usually it quickly settles back to normal speeds.

The last bit of research for me is about the WAN/LAN connection issue for the first AEBS, but so far it is working connected to WAN.

Hope that helps.

[desertmac]

After reading Apple's Designing Airport manual again, in particular page 36, I have slightly changed this configuration:

1. Verizon FIOS Actiontrec router connected via coaxial cable to the internet. I have disabled its wireless mode via the web-based set up since I don't need it's wireless network. I use AEBS for that.
2. First Airport Extreme Base Station connected in Bridge Mode to the Actiontrec. The ethernet cable runs from the first LAN port on the Actiontrec to a LAN port on the AEBS.
3. Second Airport Extreme Base Station set to extend the network of the first AEBS.
4. Two additional Airport Express stations set up for air tunes.

This is not a WDS. I use the Airport Expresses only for Air Tunes, not to extend the signal.

I have two Macbook Pros and one Powerbook that connect to this network, all wirelessly. So far working well. I typically get 15 MB speeds on downloads.

Hope that helps.

[neon_duke]

Thanks for the info - your setup sounds very close to mine. Please let me ask a few quick followup questions:

1) How did you set the AEBS to bridge to the Actiontec? I assume the AEBS used to be the main router of your wireless network - how did you slave it to the Actiontec without screwing up your network?

2) Is there a difference if I did want my AEX to also act as an extender, not just serve music to my stereo? It's not strictly required, but if it's there already, it might as well mulitask (unless that causes problems).

3) What speed level did you order - 15 mbps? That's what I'm considering, for an extra $10 a month.

Thanks again.

[desertmac]

1) Connect your AEBS to the Actiontrec as described above. Ethernet cable LAN to LAN. Then open Airport Utility, click on the AEBS, click on manual setup. Click on the Internet Tab and at the bottom of the page, for Connection Sharing, choose Off (Bridge mode). Click update. When I did that, the rest of my network continued to respond to the AEBS just as it had before, including the second AEBS extending the network of the first.

2) To do that would require you to set up a WDS. I asked this question in another post on this forum and didn't get an answer. I called Apple Tech Support and they opined that the way I have set up is actually more stable, and will give more range, than creating a WDS. It certainly was simpler to create.

3) 15 mbps. It actually makes ordering movies and TV shows from iTunes much more accessible. Typical TV show: 15 minutes or less; typical movie 20-25 minutes. Very sweet.

[neon_duke]

OK, excellent. Thanks again for the info. I bet that when you set the AEBS to bridge to the router, it automagically became a relay for the other remote stations.

I'm already running a WDS with my AEBS connected via ethernet to my DSL modem, and I have another AEBS and an Express operating as remote base stations that are bridged to the main AEBS. The Express is serving music to my audio setup and also has my PS2 connected to it via ethernet, though I admit I don't really play online, so it may or may not be working. So hopefully everything will work out once I replace the DSL modem with the FiOS router.

I really appreciate your help. Thanks for follwing up on this topic.

[Info Junkie]

Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO 

The modem they installed is also a router, but I already have a router (Airport Extreme). The base station is reporting a error "Double NAT" meaning that its connected to another network. It asks me to put it in bridged mode but the base station works fine as it is, should I just set it up to ignore this error or should I switch it to bridged?

Whatever you do - do not follow the complicated and non-functioning instructions for turning your FIOS router into a bridge (they're all over the Internet, as are complaints... perhaps once valid, now they are outdated - don't touch your verizon Actiontec router's settings). As I suspect many have done, I followed one set of instructions only to have wasted over 1.5 hours. You see the problem is that once you follow those instructions the "default" settings cannot just be re-initialized without problem (I wish someone else would have told me this!). You end up having to contact Verizon for them to release and renew your DHCP lease for you. A huge pain in the butt. The reality is that in this snapshot in time all you need to do is literally plug your AEBS into one of the ActionTec LAN ports, configure your AEBS to work as though it is on a LAN and Bridged, and you're good to go after then just turning off the wireless signal on your Actiontec.

Other lessons learned are that
1) sometimes upon changing AEBS settings in the utility program (such as channel to use) the router disappears from view. All you need to do is push the pin-button for 1 second (no longer or you'll lose your settings) and it soft-reboots which then makes it appear. Someone else figured this out for me but I figured I'd post it here... seems that the manual soft boot does something important to bring the AEBS back online.
2) perhaps obvious, but for whatever reason I had a senior moment about it, you need to realize the WEP password you create for the AEBS is case-sensitive. I couldn't get one of my 2 PCs to connect, and spent an embarrassing amount of time virtually getting Cisco certified in network knowledge only to realize I hadn't considered case-sensitivity of the password.
3) Setting up a USB Printer to work with AEBS and my two PC's (using Bonjour) was a piece of cake. You don't need to do anything funky with the latest firmware edition of AEBS. Just install Bonjour on your PC's after setting up the AEBS, and then use the Bonjour printer wizard to identify and configure. Simple as that.