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Millennium · Jun 27, 2002, 01:30 AM

Um, I hate to say this, guys, but on further examination of these, I get the feeling that the widgets have not really been redesigned.

Look again at the shadows. They're too dark; they don't fit right. I mistook them for outlines in one of my posts above, actually, and thought the shadows had gone (which I later realized made no sense; if the cursor is being given a shadow, then why would it be taken away from everything else?) Also, the Aqua widgets as we currently know them are actually very slightly transparent; it can be hard to see, but it's there. Enough that what's behind them does have an effect on their appearance.

This leads me to believe that what we're seeing is just a bug in Quartz or Quartz Extreme. Specifically, I think all of the widgets are being drawn twice (or possibly even more times), one over the other. Several others have pointed out that this might be a masking issue too.

I'm not really an expert in making Aqua-esque widgets. Could someone try this as an experiment? Make an Aqua-looking widget in Photoshop or something, complete with shadows and partial transparency, and then render an identical one on top of it. If I'm right, the end result should look similar to one of these "new widgets".

CharlesS · Jun 27, 2002, 01:50 AM

That's what I thought at first, too, but although the forward and back buttons definitely do look like drawing bugs, the tabs and check boxes look intentional...

Jim Paradise · Jun 27, 2002, 01:56 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MacAgent:
Ugh, that's just disgusting. The flat buttons look awful, awful, awful. The tabs are OK, but they definitely need to be rounded a bit more. If Apple goes through with this, I'm going to be ****ed.

<hr /></blockquote>Agreed completely.

Fotek2001 · Jun 27, 2002, 04:52 AM

If Apple keeps Aqua the way it is in 10.1 I'm going back to OS 9

[ 06-27-2002, 04:53 AM: Message edited by: Fotek2001 ]

sadie · Jun 27, 2002, 05:08 AM

I like it - it looks neater, smarter. Of course, I use a smegging Windoze machine all day, so I'm probably corrupted.

I'd still like to be able to change the colour of the UI widgets though. Ideally a nice hue/saturation picker, but I'd be happy with 10-15 prebuilt colour sets (as long as my favourite colour is among them).

smeger · Jun 27, 2002, 05:15 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sadie:
I like it - it looks neater, smarter. Of course, I use a smegging Windoze machine all day, so I'm probably corrupted.

I'd still like to be able to change the colour of the UI widgets though. Ideally a nice hue/saturation picker, but I'd be happy with 10-15 prebuilt colour sets (as long as my favourite colour is among them).<hr /></blockquote>"smegging?" My new favorite word!

Check out the software in my sig for changing UI widgets.

dr. zoidberg · Jun 27, 2002, 05:44 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nonsuch:
OK, I like the new look and all, but really: it's not that different. People complaining that suddenly Aqua is unusable for them baffle me. I'll wager that within a week of using it, without the old elements to compare to, most of you won't even remember there was an earlier look.<hr /></blockquote>i totally agree, Nonsuch. actually i like the new interface elements better, but the difference is really not THAT much... c�mon!! it seems that some of our fellas are just complaining for the sake of boredom (...again)...

whack, jaguar�s gonna be one hell of an update.

dr. zoidberg · Jun 27, 2002, 05:48 AM

... yeah and i seriously doubt that this is just a rendering bug!!

JLL · Jun 27, 2002, 05:51 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
Um, I hate to say this, guys, but on further examination of these, I get the feeling that the widgets have not really been redesigned.<hr /></blockquote>Not redesigned?

Look at the tabs. Different shape AND different gradient.

The shadow of the tabbed area is also smaller than before.

<img src="http://lunddal.dk/macnn/newaqua.png" alt=" - " />

[ 06-27-2002, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: JLL ]

Sharky K. · Jun 27, 2002, 06:27 AM

you forgot the checkbox.

DasDaSein+ · Jun 27, 2002, 06:41 AM

For all claiming all this might be a rendering bug, it's definitely not. As for widget shadows, apple might have changed the way quartz handels this on different GPUs. The screenshots are all taken on a Lombard PB with RagePro LT - I haven't even seen the mouse pointer drop shadow in any jag build yet. But that's just a guess.

Next screenshot for all who wanted to see a graphite version (sorry JPEG again, but PNG is way to large - if you really need to see one <a href="http://www.wsc-net.com/mac/screen4.png" target="_blank">here</a> it is. This will definitely kill my mac.com account

)

Don't know if somewhere posted before - 'show item info' in view options will be one spiffy??! feature as well.

<img src="http://www.wsc-net.com/mac//screen4.jpg" alt=" - " />

[ 07-02-2002, 04:50 AM: Message edited by: DasDaSein+ ]

Jan Van Boghout · Jun 27, 2002, 07:31 AM

Well I kind of like the idea, but I sure hope this aren't the final widgets. They don't look very polished, especially the radio buttons and the check boxes.
Oh well, I guess I'll get used to it anyway.

Could anybody post the small versions of these widgets? Should be interesting

Fotek2001 · Jun 27, 2002, 07:32 AM

I really like that last screenshot. The new style widgets are much sleeker and more refined. I also like the way that the capacity of a folder/volume is shown below the title - I'm assuming that this is optional?

Am I right in thinking that the finder can now show ID3 tag info for MP3 files?

[ 06-27-2002, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Fotek2001 ]

BuonRotto · Jun 27, 2002, 08:12 AM

Only problem in that screenshot is the focus halo is a little uneven and the pop-ups in the Find window (should be a sheet IMO) have some of the striped background surrounding them in a white field. But of course, this area is being worked on as we speak. Man, aren't we fussy critics!

Nice to see some of the new Finder info, thanks.

kovacs · Jun 27, 2002, 08:27 AM

The buttons look.... euhm.... slippery <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

P · Jun 27, 2002, 08:47 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by smeger:
[QB]smegging?" My new favorite word!

QB]<hr /></blockquote>Red Dwarf flashback!

Luke Sands · Jun 27, 2002, 09:30 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DasDaSein+:
For all claiming all this might be a rendering bug, it's definitely not. As for widget shadows, apple might have changed the way quartz handels this on different GPUs. The screenshots are all taken on a Lombard PB with RagePro LT - I haven't even seen the mouse pointer drop shadow in any jag build yet. But that's just a guess.

Next screenshot for all who wanted to see a graphite version (sorry JPEG again, but PNG is way to large - if you really need to see one <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/bmeyer/screen4.png" target="_blank">here</a> it is. This will definitely kill my mac.com account

)

Don't know if somewhere posted before - 'show item info' in view options will be one spiffy??! feature as well.

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/bmeyer/screen4.jpg" alt=" - " /><hr /></blockquote>What build is this? I thought there where problems with installing 6C63...

Millennium · Jun 27, 2002, 10:08 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JLL:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
Um, I hate to say this, guys, but on further examination of these, I get the feeling that the widgets have not really been redesigned.<hr /></blockquote>Not redesigned?

Look at the tabs. Different shape AND different gradient.

The shadow of the tabbed area is also smaller than before.<hr /></blockquote>It is also possible that some elements were redesigned and some not.

Considering how awful the shadows look on everything in the new design, I would hazard a guess that we're definitely seeing some rendering bugs. I simply don't see Apple making some of the design decisions that were made here; the shadows, for one, are far too dark now. They look fake.

havannas · Jun 27, 2002, 10:20 AM

Are these smaller drop shadows a performance tweak?

Smaller drop shadows on widgets means less work needs to be done by the QuartzCompositer.

Perhaps this is to help people who's video cards fall outside the range of compatability with QuartzGL(to theExtreme!!!)?

xi_hyperon · Jun 27, 2002, 10:20 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JLL:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
Um, I hate to say this, guys, but on further examination of these, I get the feeling that the widgets have not really been redesigned.<hr /></blockquote>Not redesigned?

Look at the tabs. Different shape AND different gradient.

The shadow of the tabbed area is also smaller than before.<hr /></blockquote>It is also possible that some elements were redesigned and some not.

Considering how awful the shadows look on everything in the new design, I would hazard a guess that we're definitely seeing some rendering bugs. I simply don't see Apple making some of the design decisions that were made here; the shadows, for one, are far too dark now. They look fake.<hr /></blockquote>For crying out loud it's a developer build- most likely they are still in the process of revamping the widgets, so why do you feel this is necessarily what you'll see in the final build? If I recall, the aqua elements went through a similar evolution before 4k78 was released, so I'm sure Apple will refine things before FC. Patience. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Guy Incognito · Jun 27, 2002, 10:35 AM

I think the new look is great. Anyone who disagrees with me is a poopy-head.

Edit: Seriously though...I was hoping Apple would change the look of Aqua to better match the brushed-metal look's shiny surfaces. The reflections on the brushed-metal look's shiny surface objects was different from the old-Aqua...Apple had to fix that.

[ 06-27-2002, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]

yaro · Jun 27, 2002, 11:36 AM

Don't mean a thing if it aint got that speed.

[ 06-27-2002, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: yaro ]

Brien · Jun 27, 2002, 01:46 PM

Cleaner and more refined? Certainly. Better? Unsure I am.

dfiler · Jun 27, 2002, 01:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Fotek2001:
These new widgets are in the new Extras.rsrc file so I doubt it's a drawing error that's causing the new look.<hr /></blockquote>Aha. This is key. I'm beggining to think that the new look is both a result of an aqua redesign _and_ rendering glitches. (maybe related to QE)
Apple has excelent graphic designers. I'm confident that the glitches, whether from drawing routine problems or simply dirty prototype textures, will be fixed by the release of 10.2.

On another note... the finder looks greatly improved in that last screen shot. Looks like Apple is slowly finding ways to put more info into the finder windows without cluttering the 'clean apple look'! Anyone got more examples of this?

Jan Van Boghout · Jun 27, 2002, 02:09 PM

OK, for all the 10.1 users out there that want to have a look at this new look:
<a href="http://www.janvb.com/Extras.rsrc.tgz" target="_blank">Extras.rsrc</a>

Have fun!

(It will only be there for a couple of hours, download it fast

)

[edit: file removed, I'll put it back up if the demand is really high

Look below, there's a repackaged Duality theme version that includes my Extras.rsrc]

[ 06-28-2002, 03:15 AM: Message edited by: Jan Van Boghout ]

Jan Van Boghout · Jun 27, 2002, 02:15 PM

Oh yes, what I forgot to mention:
this is not the original Jaguar Extras.rsrc, but the default 10.1 file modified with the Jaguar pictures. So it won't hurt if you use it in 10.1 since it's a 10.1 theme.
Again, have fun

RGB · Jun 27, 2002, 02:20 PM

Yuck.

I have always liked how the Mac OS interface seemed more 3d than the flat, drab Windows. This just flattens it and makes it less elegant I think. 10.2 might just be enough to drive me to using a theme.

lngtones · Jun 27, 2002, 03:40 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
OK, for all the 10.1 users out there that want to have a look at this new look:
<a href="http://www.janvb.com/Extras.rsrc.tgz" target="_blank">Extras.rsrc</a>

Have fun!

(It will only be there for a couple of hours, download it fast

)<hr /></blockquote>I'm not sure if I like it or not. It may be more professional looking, but I think OS X is a lot more fun with the other widgets.

EDIT: Also how come the Finder back button is still the same as before?

And I don't think the new buttons match the window close/resize/minimize widgets very well, though that could change who knows

[ 06-27-2002, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: lngtones ]

Guy Incognito · Jun 27, 2002, 03:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RGB:
Yuck.

I have always liked how the Mac OS interface seemed more 3d than the flat, drab Windows. This just flattens it and makes it less elegant I think. 10.2 might just be enough to drive me to using a theme.<hr /></blockquote>Calm down. You're acting like a child. I don't see how the degree of bulge or flattening can make people flip out so much. It still retains the 3D-look!

You like plump women too I suppose? But you LOOOOVE obese women!!! They're more 3D!

Luke Sands · Jun 27, 2002, 04:13 PM

For all those who use Duality 3, a new jaguar theme is online:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/lukesands498/.cv/lukesands498/Public/JaguarTest.dlta.sit-binhex.hqx" target="_blank">Jaguar With Re-Designed Aqua - Duality Theme</a>

If it has been removed, please e-mail me and i'll send it to you....
<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>

This means you can easily try out the new look of jaguar using Duality.
Download "Duality" from <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx" target="_blank">www.versiontracker.com/macosx</a>

[ 06-27-2002, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: Luke Sands ]

zadak · Jun 27, 2002, 04:37 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Luke Sands:
[QB][QUOTE]Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
[qb]OK, for all the 10.1 users out there that want to have a look at this new look:
<a href="http://www.janvb.com/Extras.rsrc.tgz" target="_blank">Extras.rsrc</a>

Have fun!

Can somebody put it up somewhere else?
I missed it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Luke Sands · Jun 27, 2002, 04:41 PM

opps.. double post

[ 06-27-2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Luke Sands ]

Jan Van Boghout · Jun 27, 2002, 04:49 PM

The link still works fine for me

zazou · Jun 27, 2002, 04:53 PM

Ok, the X apps look better, but the improvement in apps that use the small tabs (like DW.MX & FW.MX, etc) is a HUGE improvement.

Using the extras.rsrc posted above and using 10.1 I can asure anyone that it is not a QE glitch.

Now we just need a Stripeless Version!! --hint-- --hint-- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> , please

lookmark · Jun 27, 2002, 04:55 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by zazou:
[QB]Ok, the X apps look better, but the improvement in apps that use the small tabs (like DW.MX & FW.MX, etc) is a HUGE improvement.

Using the extras.rsrc posted above and using 10.1 I can asure anyone that it is not a QE glitch.
<hr /></blockquote>Screenshot, please?

OwlBoy · Jun 27, 2002, 04:56 PM

Sweet the extra info options in the finder work now! In the WWDC buil it looked like they were getting ready for that... Neat. More screenshots please!

-Owl

zazou · Jun 27, 2002, 06:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lookmark:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by zazou:
[QB]Ok, the X apps look better, but the improvement in apps that use the small tabs (like DW.MX & FW.MX, etc) is a HUGE improvement.

Using the extras.rsrc posted above and using 10.1 I can asure anyone that it is not a QE glitch.
<hr /></blockquote>Screenshot, please?<hr /></blockquote>OK,

<img src="http://www.dfcreative.com/dw1.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.dfcreative.com/dw2.jpg" alt=" - " />

And the Jag stripeless Extras File is <a href="http://www.dfcreative.com/10.2j.sit" target="_blank">here</a>

Spirit_VW · Jun 27, 2002, 06:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Luke Sands:
For all those who use Duality 3, a new jaguar theme is online:

Removed already! e-mail me for it if you want it!
<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>

This means you can easily try out the new look of jaguar using Duality.
Download "Duality" from <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx" target="_blank">www.versiontracker.com/macosx</a><hr /></blockquote>Is there any difference between this theme and the .rsrc file above?

zazou · Jun 27, 2002, 06:12 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spirit_VW:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Luke Sands:
<hr /></blockquote>Is there any difference between this theme and the .rsrc file above?<hr /></blockquote>This is just the .rsrc file, not a duality theme.

It is without the Aqua stripes like the Smooth theme.

Luke Sands · Jun 27, 2002, 06:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spirit_VW:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Luke Sands:
For all those who use Duality 3, a new jaguar theme is online:

Removed already! e-mail me for it if you want it!
<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>

This means you can easily try out the new look of jaguar using Duality.
Download "Duality" from <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx" target="_blank">www.versiontracker.com/macosx</a><hr /></blockquote>Is there any difference between this theme and the .rsrc file above?<hr /></blockquote>Its just that .rsrc file packaged up for Duality. It just makes it easier to install the .rsrc...

Mongrel · Jun 27, 2002, 06:21 PM

HOLY CRAP ON A STICK BATMAN! Those small tabs DO look awesome. I hope it continues to evolve in this direction... I curse to myself every night that my next cpu's gonna run XP because I'm so irritated by working in OS X's headache of appearance when using window-heavy applications. This is better already.

But like the man says, if it ain't got that speed...

Synotic · Jun 27, 2002, 07:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Luke Sands:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spirit_VW:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Luke Sands:
For all those who use Duality 3, a new jaguar theme is online:

Removed already! e-mail me for it if you want it!
<a href="mailto:[email protected]" target="_blank">[email protected]</a>

This means you can easily try out the new look of jaguar using Duality.
Download "Duality" from <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx" target="_blank">www.versiontracker.com/macosx</a><hr /></blockquote>Is there any difference between this theme and the .rsrc file above?<hr /></blockquote>Its just that .rsrc file packaged up for Duality. It just makes it easier to install the .rsrc...<hr /></blockquote>If it's only one file then why would you make it into a DLTA or whatever you've done? Duality can read .rsrc files just fine

davidmd · Jun 27, 2002, 07:20 PM

I like the look, though I'm still getting used to it a little. I think it makes the buttons and sliders look a lot more like buttons instead of like clicking on Advil gelcaps that feel like they're gonna roll away... this is definitely a good thing by me. I also think the tabs look better too, more crisp and clean.

ambush · Jun 27, 2002, 07:30 PM

I personally think the aqua stripes are getting old and that Apple should throw theme away and replace it with a nice milky // white gradient like the Milk theme. I also think the new appearence of 10.2 is rad. Too cool and way more professional. my 0.02$ CAND

spectre · Jun 27, 2002, 07:38 PM

Alright, I feel like a moron for asking, but how do install the Extras.rsrc? What makes this even worse is that I've done this before... albeit a while ago. Anyways, I searched for "extras.rsrc" and found a file located waaay deep inside the library, and I attempted to remove this item (back it up), and replace it with the one I downloaded...

Unfortuantely, the folder is locked, and I can't edit it at all... So... can anyone help?

BTW, the new look is MUCH nicer in my opinion!

Ben

Luke Sands · Jun 27, 2002, 07:48 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by spectre:
Alright, I feel like a moron for asking, but how do install the Extras.rsrc? What makes this even worse is that I've done this before... albeit a while ago. Anyways, I searched for "extras.rsrc" and found a file located waaay deep inside the library, and I attempted to remove this item (back it up), and replace it with the one I downloaded...

Unfortuantely, the folder is locked, and I can't edit it at all... So... can anyone help?

BTW, the new look is MUCH nicer in my opinion!

Ben<hr /></blockquote>Boot into OS9 and swap the files or download Duality and use the JaguarTest theme which I can send you. Get Duality from versiontracker.com/macosx

zazou · Jun 27, 2002, 08:09 PM

Might also try Themer

I just swaps the extras file with an apple script like setp.

Very easy for just resources

<a href="http://www.stretch.tc/aquaworld/themes/themes.html" target="_blank">Themer</a>

ambush · Jun 27, 2002, 08:09 PM

Wow. I came to the conclusion that there WILL be a site redesign at apple before Jaguar is released to the public.

It's kinda obvious because when Jag is out, Apple.com will be using the old aquapuma buttons//tabs heh. What do you think will come with this new update?

mactropolis · Jun 27, 2002, 08:41 PM

Am I the only one here who isn't especally digg'in this new glassy, flat look?

I think the old one was better. It added a nice 'depth' to the screen. This flat, shinny look appears to fake. I like visible 3D objects on the screen. Then again, I haven't use this build in person, so I don't know what its really like. A screen shot isn't always demonstrative of the true interface qualities.

Andrew 8808 · Jun 27, 2002, 09:09 PM

Installed the Extras.rsrc, and I must say I very much like it. It looks a lot nicer. Much more refined, IMHO. Man, I can't wait until Jaguar is released. Is summer over yet?