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The Russian Connection (Page 13)
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Waragainstsleep
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Aug 5, 2017, 09:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Neither did Trump, and your hyperbole doesn't count. Hell, top legal experts aren't even sure what he did was illegal, much less treasonous. What's baffling is how you conflate every little thing you see about Trump into 100x more than it is, merely because of your hate.
So the experts don't know for sure if he committed treason, but you do?

Why do you think my hatred of Trump is any different or worse then your hatred of Hillary?
The big difference is I base my opinion of him primarily on the things he actually says and does, and the way he behaves and carries himself. The less likeable things you claim to know about Hillary are mostly part of the perpetual RW media shitstorm she's been dealing with for her entire political career.
There can be no doubt that Trump objectifies and disrespects women. That he has no taste or class. That he is constantly doing himself favours at the expense of voters and taxpayers. That he withholds payment from local contractors. That he's an insecure narcissist man-child. That he has promoted and enabled racism to get where he is. That he's a massive and unapologetic hypocrite when it comes to presidential vacations and golf days. These are all demonstrable facts. Everything you claim to hate about Hillary is no more than an allegation but I'm the one blowing things up to ridiculous proportions? Stealing from your own charities to buy self portraits is easily believable and totally in keeping with the indisputable aspects of Trump's character. Killing people and running child prostitution rings out of pizza shops is utter nonsense and bears no credible connection to anything we genuinely know to be true about Hillary whatsoever. Its all built on the media lies like the ones you claim are victimising Trump but as usual when it comes to the right the absolutely hypocritical reverse is true.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 5, 2017, 09:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
She did by NOT protecting national security data and by her incompetence allowed hackers to get her emails, which had classified info attached. Even after her 'council' advised her to NOT use the outside server. Ask Debbie Wasserman Schultz about her involvement with the Pakistani IT guy, now in custody, and the missing computers.
I never heard there was any proof that her emails were hacked.

How is having your own email server worse than an even higher ranking government official discussing classified information in a public restaurant? Hasn't he also tweeted some classified stuff? Where is your outrage for Trump? If she deserves to be prosecuted, he must do too.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 5, 2017, 03:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
So the experts don't know for sure if he committed treason, but you do?
Wait. What? I'm just assuming he didn't, at least until there's proof he did. At this point there's only evidence that Junior colluded with foreign powers to expose Hillary's dirty deeds (which many within the MSM suspected but didn't pursue, because it would have hurt their candidate of choice). That's not treason. In fact, it's really hard to prove that it's even illegal.

Why do you think my hatred of Trump is any different or worse then your hatred of Hillary?
I don't hate Hillary. In fact, I don't hate anyone. (At least not since primary school.) That's a useless emotion that only damages the person who feels it. It's like drinking poison to get back at someone else; they don't care and it only ends up killing you. That said, I very much dislike Hillary's actions, and the cloud of death that seemingly follows both of the Clintons around.

*you spend a paragraph justifying your hatred of Trump*
Golf days? By all accounts the guy works 16-18 hour days. You realize that he can take 2-3 days off a week, entirely (golfing, etc), and still work 80+ hour weeks, right? I know this because I used to live that way, before partially retiring. In contrast, Obama worked 6 days /wk, which is also admirable, but stuck to "banker's hours", working 8-5. Both ways are fine, but I preferred the former, mainly because I liked getting into a rhythm and staying with it, then completely detaching myself.

Benghazi isn't mere speculation. That there's 100s of $millions$ missing from the Haitian relief fund, effectively robbing some of the poorest people on Earth, isn't mere speculation. That Clinton Foundation donors got weapons Deals from Hillary's State dept, isn't mere speculation. I can go on, but maybe you're getting the point by now, she and Bill are some of the dirtiest dealers to exist in American politics, at least in the last century, making it really hard not to believe many of the other theories being passed around. So while Trump is admittedly no saint, by any stretch, he's going to need to work all that overtime to catch up to the Clintons, in terms of shady political involvements.

Despite all that, however, I don't hate them. For the most part I see them as a symptom of the corruption in DC, a non-stop machine that's in place to pad the pockets of a relative few, at the expense of not just Americans, but everyone else in the world. It's the world's largest dunghill, and she's just a cock that climbs upon it to crow.
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subego
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Aug 5, 2017, 05:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I never heard there was any proof that her emails were hacked.
I think (ex-CIA director) Hayden put it well.

"I would lose respect for any state intelligence agency who hadn't hacked it."


While it bothers me when senior officials are careless with classified information, the far more problematic behavior was trying to cover it up.

As I said, if she's willing to put so much effort into covering-up ultimately forgivable transgressions, how would she react to the less forgivable?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Aug 5, 2017, 06:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think (ex-CIA director) Hayden put it well.

"I would lose respect for any state intelligence agency who hadn't hacked it."


While it bothers me when senior officials are careless with classified information, the far more problematic behavior was trying to cover it up.

As I said, if she's willing to put so much effort into covering-up ultimately forgivable transgressions, how would she react to the less forgivable?
This is politics 101. There aren't any politicians that will own up to mistakes. I'd remind you we have a rep that initially denied assaulting a reporter after the audio was posted and a president that pretended the word 'covfefe' was a purposeful choice. It isn't an indication of possible nefariousness, it illustrates that there's no political upside to honesty.
     
besson3c
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Aug 5, 2017, 11:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
The LWMSM will do anything to keep the Debbie Wasserman Schultz/Pakistan story to gain traction. Sadly the left isn't too bright and the story is kind of complex. Don't expect the media to get it right anytime soon.

The left isn't too bright?

This is coming from somebody who thinks that tens of thousands of scientific consensus documents pertaining to global warming are a big global conspiracy?

You're not bright.
( Last edited by besson3c; Aug 6, 2017 at 12:41 AM. )
     
Chongo
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Aug 5, 2017, 11:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The left isn't too bright?

This is coming from somebody who thinks that tens of thousands of scientific consensus of global warming are a big global conspiracy?

You're not bright.
That's climate change. Global warming is so last decade.

Are these the same people who think there are more than two genders?
     
besson3c
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Aug 6, 2017, 12:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
That's climate change. Global warming is so last decade.

Are these the same people who think there are more than two genders?
WTF are you talking about?

Please be rational.

I'll tell you what. Please come up with 1000 peer reviewed documents that find flaws in the global warming consensus, okay? Since there are tens of thousands that claim that global warming is a thing, it shouldn't be tough to come up with just 1000, right?

If you can't do that, please tell us why we should put stock into what you guys say as opposed to actual scientists?
     
reader50
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Aug 6, 2017, 01:55 AM
 
I would like to know the Russian Connection with climate change. Especially regarding Trump. Did he arrange with Putin to import coal, because there aren't any American coal workers left? And which of those thousands of climate papers did Trump pay for?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Aug 6, 2017, 07:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think (ex-CIA director) Hayden put it well.

"I would lose respect for any state intelligence agency who hadn't hacked it."
So in other words, not even a claim that she was actually hacked. You can't hack something if you don't know it exists. The US government didn't seem to notice it while she was sending them emails from it so how would anyone else?

Originally Posted by subego View Post
While it bothers me when senior officials are careless with classified information, the far more problematic behavior was trying to cover it up.

As I said, if she's willing to put so much effort into covering-up ultimately forgivable transgressions, how would she react to the less forgivable?
Again, where is the concern about POTUS talking about classified stuff in public places and then sacking people for trying to investigate him? Is that not more serious than a simple denial?
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Waragainstsleep
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Aug 6, 2017, 07:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
which of those thousands of climate papers did Trump pay for?
Why would Trump pay for papers that disagree with his worldview?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
reader50
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Aug 6, 2017, 01:03 PM
 
It was a poke at besson, for OT in thread. If climate change papers are in this thread, they must have something to do with Russia, Trump, or Putin. If he can find a connection, I'd be interested.
     
besson3c
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Aug 6, 2017, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
It was a poke at besson, for OT in thread. If climate change papers are in this thread, they must have something to do with Russia, Trump, or Putin. If he can find a connection, I'd be interested.
Everybody knows about those Russian weather balloons from the 70s, funded through backdoor channels by the Trump Corporation, collecting real and unbiased data about future weather patterns that were destroyed by the Soviets in collusion with the Clintons and Obama's Kenyan parents. This data was salvaged by secret operatives working for Ronald Reagan and kept on old mainframes. Then, years later, Hilary Clinton's campaign staffers obtained this data by a hack carried out by Russian partners, transferred this data to Hilary's private email servers, and then was destroyed by bleachbit.

Fortunately, one of Hilary's staff leaked this data to Putin who holds the remaining copy of this data, which he approached Trump to discuss. Unfortunately, Kim Jun il holds the encryption keys needed to decrypt all of this data.

If this data could ever be uncovered and revealed to the public we would all see how big of a sham global warming is today.

It's all connected, man. You just have to open your eyes and stop paying attention to the LWMSM like a dumb liberal.
( Last edited by besson3c; Aug 6, 2017 at 01:34 PM. )
     
Chongo
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Aug 6, 2017, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Everybody knows about those Russian weather balloons from the 70s, funded through backdoor channels by the Trump Corporation, collecting real and unbiased data about future weather patterns that were destroyed by the Soviets in collusion with the Clintons and Obama's Kenyan parents. This data was salvaged by secret operatives working for Ronald Reagan and kept on old mainframes. Then, years later, Hilary Clinton's campaign staffers obtained this data by a hack carried out by Russian partners, transferred this data to Hilary's private email servers, and then was destroyed by bleachbit.

Fortunately, one of Hilary's staff leaked this data to Putin who holds the remaining copy of this data, which he approached Trump to discuss. Unfortunately, Kim Jun il holds the encryption keys needed to decrypt all of this data.

If this data could ever be uncovered and revealed to the public we would all see how big of a sham global warming is today.

It's all connected, man. You just have to open your eyes and stop paying attention to the LWMSM like a dumb liberal. I suggest Fox News, except for Shep Smith and Chris Wallace who are in on this hoax too. So, maybe just Fox and Friends? At least the friends...
Meme time!
     
besson3c
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Aug 6, 2017, 01:44 PM
 
Do you not realize when your tendencies towards conspiracy theories are being mocked, Chongo?
( Last edited by besson3c; Aug 6, 2017 at 02:15 PM. )
     
Chongo
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Aug 6, 2017, 04:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Do you not realize when your tendencies towards conspiracy theories are being mocked, Chongo?
You forgot about Hillary faking the moon landing to hide Bill's dodging the draft.

Conspiracy theories? How about the theory an oligarch knew in 2008 that Trump was going to be POTUS in 2017, so he paid an overinflated price for a property in order to have influence with him in 2017.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Aug 9, 2017, 06:57 PM
 
In actual news, Manafort got raided by the FBI in late July. I'm impressed that this didn't leak earlier.

It's not necessarily bad news for Trump, as Manafort was neck deep in shot long before he joined the campaign, but internet detectives immediately noticed Trump had a twitter tantrum about the acting FBI director that very day.

The raid also signals that Mueller didn't trust Manafort enough to subpoena him. Interesting wrinkle: Manafort has various properties but they only raided the on in Washington, I believe.
     
reader50
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Aug 9, 2017, 07:57 PM
 
I'm not seeing any mention of what they were searching for. What the warrant allows would give a hint of what the investigators suspect.
     
subego
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Aug 10, 2017, 02:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
In actual news, Manafort got raided by the FBI in late July. I'm impressed that this didn't leak earlier.
Foil hat says it was supposed to, but the delay was to let his transgender ban smokescreen dissipate.
     
subego
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Aug 10, 2017, 02:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
I'm not seeing any mention of what they were searching for. What the warrant allows would give a hint of what the investigators suspect.
I've heard bank statements and tax records.

This happened the day after he handed stuff over to (I think) Senate Intel, so the theory is he withheld stuff they knew he had, which gave the FBI probable cause.

The further theory is now Manafort's either going to prison for tax fraud, or flipping on Trump. His choice.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Aug 10, 2017, 01:26 PM
 
Bloomberg claims Manafort is the one who leaked that the meeting with the Russian lawyer occurred.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Aug 10, 2017, 02:54 PM
 
Trumps lawyer criticized the FBI raid on Manafort. Not sure why...
     
subego
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Aug 10, 2017, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Bloomberg claims Manafort is the one who leaked that the meeting with the Russian lawyer occurred.
Lock him up!
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 10, 2017, 08:27 PM
 
^^ Damn right they should.
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Chongo
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Aug 27, 2017, 04:39 PM
 
Speaking of Russian connections. The same group Manafort worked for also employed Podesta.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ho...rticle/2632538
The Podesta Group belatedly filed several new disclosures with the Justice Department on Aug. 17 related to work the firm completed between 2012 and 2014 on behalf of a pro-Russia Ukrainian think tank.

Back in April, the powerful Washington lobbying firm run by Clinton ally Tony Podesta filed a document admitting its work for the pro-Russia European Centre for a Modern Ukraine may have principally benefited a foreign government. New disclosures revealed dozens of previously unreported interactions the firm made with influential government offices, including Hillary Clinton's State Department and the office of former Vice President Joe Biden, while lobbying on behalf of the center. Embattled ex-Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort failed to disclose his extensive lobbying efforts on behalf of the center at the time as well.
     
subego
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Aug 28, 2017, 02:55 AM
 
Worth noting that's not creepy Podesta, but his brother.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Sep 1, 2017, 12:36 PM
 
Lotta news but I'm kinda trumped out. Will take a bomb for me to find the energy.
     
reader50
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Sep 1, 2017, 01:07 PM
 
The Guardian has a Trump-news summary for what's happened during Harvey week. A fair number of suspicious details, but no smoking guns. Cliff notes:

• Mueller group is working with NY attorney general in investigating Paul Manafort. Significance: Trump's pardon power only applies to federal crimes. If a state charge emerged, it would take a state pardon to wipe it away.
• Trump explored building a Trump Tower in Moscow, effort continued into 2015-2016. But during the campaign, Trump denied any business dealings with Russia. Several people involved can't seem to remember these events today.
• One of Mueller's grand juries has interviewed Rinat Akhmetshin, one of the tower meeting attendees.
• Trump called Senator Chuck Grassley (chairman of the judiciary committee) and promised support of ethanol biofuel production. This is an important issue for Grassley, and the call came a day after news Trump Jr. would meet with the judiciary committee.
• Trump lawyers met with Muller team multiple times to deny obstruction of justice. Also to trash Comey's reputation.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Sep 1, 2017, 01:35 PM
 
The IRS thing makes me giddy. I thought he was being... evasive about his financials during the campaign. Now we've got someone going through them with a magnifying glass.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Sep 6, 2017, 10:29 AM
 
Mines name popping back up in the news; he seems to be focused on the Steele dossier and I'm not sure I understand the angle.
     
subego
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Sep 10, 2017, 06:48 PM
 
This is odd...

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...etary-treasury

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 301 of title 3, United States Code, I hereby make the following delegations:

I delegate to the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to administer financial sanctions under section 1263 of the Global Magnitsky Human Rights Accountability Act (Public Law 114-328) (the "Act"). In exercising the authority delegated by this memorandum, the Secretary of the Treasury will coordinate with the Secretary of State.

I also delegate to the Secretary of State the authority to administer visa sanctions under section 1263 of the Act.

The Secretary of State is authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.

The delegations in this memorandum shall apply to any provision of any future public law that is the same or substantially the same as section 1263 of the Act.

DONALD J. TRUMP
🤔
     
subego
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Sep 10, 2017, 08:52 PM
 
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 11, 2017, 12:02 PM
 
How does this compare to previous procedure? Did Trump just bypass himself in administering future sanctions?
     
subego
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Sep 11, 2017, 12:25 PM
 
Honestly, this is something which requires law chops I don't have, but the story got lost in the storm(s).
     
reader50
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Sep 11, 2017, 02:03 PM
 
If memory serves, this is Russian sanctions for the Ukraine / Crimea annexation stuff. Sounds like Trump is delegating, so he doesn't have to personally apply those sanctions to his buddies distant acquaintances who didn't help him at all during the election.
     
subego
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Sep 11, 2017, 02:45 PM
 
I agree. The most obvious answer is he wants some sort of separation/deniability.

But, will anyone buy that?
     
Chongo
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Sep 11, 2017, 03:07 PM
 
Any smoking guns yet?
     
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Sep 14, 2017, 10:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Any smoking guns yet?
Yes. A search of Trump's browser history showed frequent visits to Russian web sites, thus confirming the theory of Trump's collusion with Russia in influencing the 2016 election. The websites were described as "odd" and "frequented by many high up Russian officials". The White House declined to comment, though CNN will be covering this breaking story for 24 hours a day for the next 10 days. "We did a great job covering Irma, but now it's back to the russia story" CNN's CEO was quoted as saying. Our requests for comment to the websites in question, "hornyrussianschoolteachers.com", went unanswered.
     
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Sep 14, 2017, 11:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Yes. A search of Trump's browser history showed frequent visits to Russian web sites, thus confirming the theory of Trump's collusion with Russia in influencing the 2016 election. The websites were described as "odd" and "frequented by many high up Russian officials". The White House declined to comment, though CNN will be covering this breaking story for 24 hours a day for the next 10 days. "We did a great job covering Irma, but now it's back to the russia story" CNN's CEO was quoted as saying. Our requests for comment to the websites in question, "hornyrussianschoolteachers.com", went unanswered.

You do realize that the investigation is still underway, right?

Who knows what the conclusion will be, but I'm assuming you wouldn't want to embarrass yourself by making bold predictions that might prove to be premature. Tightpants isn't here to insist that he has the inside track on our national intelligence, and you don't seem like the kind of guy to play things this way.

You would be the first one to point out that anything is possible with a politician if Trump were caught doing something illegal.
( Last edited by besson3c; Sep 14, 2017 at 11:50 PM. )
     
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Sep 15, 2017, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
You do realize that the investigation is still underway, right?

Who knows what the conclusion will be, but I'm assuming you wouldn't want to embarrass yourself by making bold predictions that might prove to be premature. Tightpants isn't here to insist that he has the inside track on our national intelligence, and you don't seem like the kind of guy to play things this way.

You would be the first one to point out that anything is possible with a politician if Trump were caught doing something illegal.
I think your sarcasm meter might need a little bit of adjustment
     
besson3c
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Sep 15, 2017, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I think your sarcasm meter might need a little bit of adjustment
I wasn't intending to be sarcastic. You generally seem interested in going beyond stimulating your confirmation bias.
( Last edited by besson3c; Sep 15, 2017 at 06:36 PM. )
     
subego
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Sep 15, 2017, 04:29 PM
 
Going being stimulating?
     
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Sep 15, 2017, 04:37 PM
 
@besson, Snow was saying his own post was in tasteful sarcasm, and suggested you adjust your sarcasm detection meter. I found it amusing.

I'm on the fence with Trump and Russia. It seems hard to believe he'd collude with a foreign power to tilt the election. But ... we keep finding smoke. And Trump has been acting guilty. Mueller's findings will be interesting.
     
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Sep 15, 2017, 04:50 PM
 
Collusion is the worst case scenario. Unfortunately thanks to junior it's in play.

Flynn, though. Good ****ing God. He deserves his own thread at this point.
     
subego
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Sep 15, 2017, 05:33 PM
 
I haven't seen enough evidence Trump wanted to win for me to buy into the idea he personally colluded.

This is a different question from whether dipshits on his team were dumb enough to nibble on Russian bait, or if some of the dirty mother****ers he brought along for the ride are in fact dirty mother****ers.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Sep 15, 2017, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I haven't seen enough evidence Trump wanted to win for me to buy into the idea he personally colluded.

This is a different question from whether dipshits on his team were dumb enough to nibble on Russian bait, or if some of the dirty mother****ers he brought along for the ride are in fact dirty mother****ers.
Right, there's that distinction as well. Manafort is shady enough that it's far more believable. Plus, he's actually competent.
     
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Sep 15, 2017, 06:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I haven't seen enough evidence Trump wanted to win for me to buy into the idea he personally colluded.

This is a different question from whether dipshits on his team were dumb enough to nibble on Russian bait, or if some of the dirty mother****ers he brought along for the ride are in fact dirty mother****ers.
You may be correct that he didn't mean to or even want to win, but does that necessarily mean he didn't try to slip in to bed with the Russians? It's pretty clear that he has used both the campaign and his presidency to enrich himself and his family. Any 'collusion' (or attempt) could have been designed to line his pockets as much or more than to win an election.

Just a thought.
     
besson3c
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Sep 15, 2017, 06:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Going being stimulating?
Going beyond
     
besson3c
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Sep 15, 2017, 06:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
@besson, Snow was saying his own post was in tasteful sarcasm, and suggested you adjust your sarcasm detection meter. I found it amusing.

I'm on the fence with Trump and Russia. It seems hard to believe he'd collude with a foreign power to tilt the election. But ... we keep finding smoke. And Trump has been acting guilty. Mueller's findings will be interesting.


Ahhh, I see what you mean. Sorry for missing this sarcasm.

Snow-i, so this doesn't happen again how about you plant a codeword/phrase whenever you want to be sarcastic? It has to be a word/phrase that wouldn't normally come up in normal conversation. How about "toilet plunger"?
     
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Sep 15, 2017, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
You may be correct that he didn't mean to or even want to win, but does that necessarily mean he didn't try to slip in to bed with the Russians? It's pretty clear that he has used both the campaign and his presidency to enrich himself and his family. Any 'collusion' (or attempt) could have been designed to line his pockets as much or more than to win an election.

Just a thought.
I'm claiming Trump didn't help the Russians affect the election, or take information from them to be used for that purpose.

Everything else is pretty much still on the table, especially if there was money in it.
     
 
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