[highstakes]

It seems like developers are lazy, they complain about how hard it is to program/make a game for a certain console, yet even with a "easier" console, they can not make decent games. Eidos said N64 was a nightmare to program for, but some how we saw great games like Resident Evil 2, and Wipeout 64...apparently the Wii is developer friendly, yet Spider-man for the Wii is a joke. Original Splinter Cell looked much better on a PS2 than it did on the Gamecube (more developer friendly than the PS2).

I agree with exa1libur, look at Super Mario 64...all people did was moan and bitch how it (along with the N64) was delayed more than a year, yet after its release, almost every gaming magazine in the world pretty much gave it a perfect score and forgot all about the delays.

[Velocity211]

Well I just ordered a PS3 off amazon for $500 with a free remote and a free blu-ray movie. If I ever get a game for it, i'll probably spend 5% of the time playing it since there's so many other things I can do with it.

[icruise]

Amazon's video game deal of the day for today is Resistance: Fall of Man for $39.99 instead of $59.99. I'd recommend it if you like shooters. It's not fantastic, but it is very good.

[exca1ibur]

Don't forget your free 5 bluray movies as well. Here is the PDF form for you.

5 Free Bluray Movie Offer

[Hawkeye_a]

Ahhh, so im guessing thats why Blu-Ray "sales" are higher than HD-DVDs ? Imo they should have just lowered the price of the hardware by $100 and given the customers the choice on how to spend the $100... but that would mean "selling"" fewer BR-DVDs than HD-DVDs.

What did they call it when a company used one of it's products(PlayStation) to promote a different product(BR-DVD) and potentially kill the competition(HD-DVD) ? Oh wait, im thinking of Microsoft Windows and IE.

[exca1ibur]

If promos were counted as "sales", you'd have a point, until then you are reaching.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Ahhh, so im guessing thats why Blu-Ray "sales" are higher than HD-DVDs ? Imo they should have just lowered the price of the hardware by $100 and given the customers the choice on how to spend the $100... but that would mean "selling"" fewer BR-DVDs than HD-DVDs.

This is the first time that BR has done any kind of free giveaway offer, while HD-DVD has been doing it for months. And in any case, these don't count as "sales" anyway.

[Dakarʒ]

The Blu-Ray/HD-DVD-PS3/360 threads have really blurred the lines between them lately.

[Peter]

Peter Moore is leaving Microsoft for EA.
This is huge.

[Adam Betts]

Yeah I wonder why announce right after E3? He probably slept with one of the EA execs at E3.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts 

Yeah I wonder why announce right after E3? He probably slept with one of the EA execs at E3.

If she looks like Jade Raymond from Ubisoft, I understand.

[goMac]

That is pretty huge. On one hand, it might be good to get some new blood in the XBox devision (built in HD-DVD someday, Microsoft?), but he was really the driving force behind the 360. If we're unfortunate, it may lead to Microsoft binding the XBox to more Microsoft only technologies.

[riley46]

Wii has revolutionized the gaming industry into another level. If they could come up with better graphics in the next release, I think there's no other choice for the others but follow.

[pyrite]

I disagree. Wii has been wildly successful, but i think the sales can mostly be attributed to the low cost and the hype over the controls, which is WAAYYYY out of proportion. Very few wii games are revolutionary, even Zelda is just another great Zelda game (possibly the best) that just happens to have some motion control functionality. I only have 3 good friends who own wii's, and all three of them barely use it, except when they have visitors. 2 of these friends also have 360's, and spend most on that machine instead. I'm looking forward to Metroid Prime 3 and Galaxy, but for now... wii a revolution? naaa not a chance.

[KisforKennedy]

Originally Posted by pyrite 

I disagree. Wii has been wildly successful, but i think the sales can mostly be attributed to the low cost and the hype over the controls, which is WAAYYYY out of proportion. Very few wii games are revolutionary, even Zelda is just another great Zelda game (possibly the best) that just happens to have some motion control functionality. I only have 3 good friends who own wii's, and all three of them barely use it, except when they have visitors. 2 of these friends also have 360's, and spend most on that machine instead. I'm looking forward to Metroid Prime 3 and Galaxy, but for now... wii a revolution? naaa not a chance.

Agree. I think the wiiremote is more of a gadget/fad than anything else, and doesn't really contribute to better/cooler gameplay. It's just a novelty, and honestly, none of the games for that system are very impressive. The only reason they're selling well is because if Johnny wants a Wii, 360, or PS3, parents are MUCH MUCH mroe likely to spend LESS cash on a system that's more 'family' oriented.

[Jim Paradise]

Originally Posted by KisforKennedy 

Agree. I think the wiiremote is more of a gadget/fad than anything else, and doesn't really contribute to better/cooler gameplay. It's just a novelty, and honestly, none of the games for that system are very impressive. The only reason they're selling well is because if Johnny wants a Wii, 360, or PS3, parents are MUCH MUCH mroe likely to spend LESS cash on a system that's more 'family' oriented.

Amazingly, people have said that ResEvil 4 is much more enjoyable with the Wiimote, and that the upcoming Metroid Prime benefits greatly from the improved control scheme.

(Of course, not that any of that will change your opinion.)

[- - e r i k - -]

I dare you to play RE:4 and even Godfather: Blackhand and then come back and say that the Wiimote is a fad.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by goMac 

That is pretty huge. On one hand, it might be good to get some new blood in the XBox devision (built in HD-DVD someday, Microsoft?), but he was really the driving force behind the 360. If we're unfortunate, it may lead to Microsoft binding the XBox to more Microsoft only technologies.

I think it'll be bad.
Moore was a really nice guy who could actually interact with the Press. He was also a gamer and understood that the xbox wouldn't take off if the typical Microsoft Management managed it.
Big loss.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by KisforKennedy 

Agree. I think the wiiremote is more of a gadget/fad than anything else, and doesn't really contribute to better/cooler gameplay. It's just a novelty, and honestly, none of the games for that system are very impressive. The only reason they're selling well is because if Johnny wants a Wii, 360, or PS3, parents are MUCH MUCH mroe likely to spend LESS cash on a system that's more 'family' oriented.

The Wii is just in a games lull. The system itself has reached critical mass. Say what you will about it, but the Wii is at the point where the market share is large enough we will see more and more games being released for it, not less and less.

Meantime the PS3 seems to be losing games. Again, a game as simple as Katamari Damacy leaving the PS3 is not a small deal.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Peter 

I think it'll be bad.
Moore was a really nice guy who could actually interact with the Press. He was also a gamer and understood that the xbox wouldn't take off if the typical Microsoft Management managed it.
Big loss.

Right. This is what I worry about. Moore got Microsoft to treat the XBox devision as it's own thing, free from the Microsoft tie in's and monopoly strategies that pollute the rest of the company.

On the bright side, wasn't Moore involved in the Zune too?

[Dakarʒ]

Because I like throwing fuel on the fire...

Jack Tretton compares PS3 to Steak & Lobster; does not appreciate cheese fries

At this year's E3, Vicious Sid over at Gamepro spoke with Sony's Jack Tretton about the PS3 and its future. When asked to equate each of the three major consoles to a meal, Tretton had this to say:

"I think the PS3 is the Surf 'n Turf. You want the lobster and steak and you're going to give yourself the treat of getting the best thing on the menu. The PS2 is your favorite burger restaurant -- you go there for comfort food and it's just always good and is a good value."

"[As for the other two consoles], one [Wii] is a lollipop, and I'm too old for lollipops. The other one [Xbox 360] I get sick from once in a while because the cook isn't always reliable."

Mr. Tretton seems to forget that gamers are, by and large, a pretty frugal bunch. We're not exactly the type to jump at the chance to spend huge sums of money on a meal that will be gone in 20 minutes; especially when it's coming from a chef that's notorious for screwing around with menu prices and then serving the main course without any salad or breadsticks. Steak and skrimpz are yummy in their own right, but more often than not, there's nothing like a Blow Pop and a Cheeseburger to quiet a rumbly belly.

[starman]

Originally Posted by riley46 

Wii has revolutionized the gaming industry into another level. If they could come up with better graphics in the next release, I think there's no other choice for the others but follow.

Dead wrong.

The Wiimote is cool, but there's no way I'll ever play Halo (or anything like it) with a Wiimote. It's a cool idea and it is a revolutionary device, but do you REALLY think all those millions of gamers that have played with the current-type controller for the last 20 years is going to just change overnight? No. I think the Wiimote is a STEP towards something new, but it's not going to replace my Xbox 360 controller....ever.

My kids are playing Super Paper Mario now. I can't stand the controller with it. I'm so used to a standard controller. It's not even really NEEDED with Super Paper Mario. The game doesn't really take advantage of the Wiimote at all, not like the Wiisports games do.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

The Wiimote is cool, but there's no way I'll ever play Halo (or anything like it) with a Wiimote.

You can't imagine playing Halo with a Wiimote? The Wiimote is built for a game like Halo. Heck, a lot of reviewers are saying Metroid Prime 3 is the biggest thing since Halo.

[icruise]

The biggest thing since Halo? Have any links saying that? (Disclaimer: I don't like Halo or Metroid Prime all that much.)

All I can say is that so far, the Wii's controls have not really lent themselves to FPS games.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

You can't imagine playing Halo with a Wiimote? The Wiimote is built for a game like Halo. Heck, a lot of reviewers are saying Metroid Prime 3 is the biggest thing since Halo.

Name one.

Have YOU played it with a Wiimote? Do you really think that millions of gamers are going to up and stop using their 360 controllers? Be careful, there are a LOT of hardcore gamers out there that will NEVER give up their controllers.

[Peter]

The wii is a great idea, but I really think its a fad (kinda)
Just because its different doesn't make it good...
And nintendo is hardly blowing me away so far.

[Dakarʒ]

There's a reason our controllers have 3000 buttons nowadays, and I don't believe the Wii-mote can make up for that.

I appreciate its simplicity, because too many games nowadays have a learning curve, but its still gimmicky.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

There's a reason our controllers have 3000 buttons nowadays, and I don't believe the Wii-mote can make up for that.

I appreciate its simplicity, because too many games nowadays have a learning curve, but its still gimmicky.

Actually the number of buttons has only grown by two since the Super Nintendo. Now instead of 2 shoulder buttons we have 4. Other than that the buttons remain the same.

They have added dual analog sticks, however.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Actually the number of buttons has only grown by two since the Super Nintendo.

Ok... I don't think I said otherwise.

[jokell82]

Well it's a lot less than 3000 buttons. You made it seem as though controllers now are getting more and more buttons, but they aren't.

In fact, the Wii controller has only two less buttons than the xbox360 controller, so it's not the Wiimote is a huge step backwards in buttons.

[starman]

Here's an example.

My daughter needed help with Super Paper Mario, so she gives me the Wii controller. I didn't know WTF to do with the thing. Why? Because usually, on a STANDARD controller, X is jump, O is alt, etc. On the sideways Wii, you have to press A, 1, 2. I said to her "babe, how the hell does this thing work?". Had it been a PS/Xbox-type controller I wouldn't need to ask. The Wiimote is too non-standard that even I don't know how to use the friggin' thing. And before you jump all over me, just remember that even for Nintendo, changing the jump button to "2" is non-standard, it should be the largest button on the controller, "A", but it's not. "A" is used to go from 2D to 3D. That's like when the American version of FF VII used O where X usually is because the Japanese use O and we use X. To this day it throws me off.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Well it's a lot less than 3000 buttons.

No kidding.

Originally Posted by jokell82 

You made it seem as though controllers now are getting more and more buttons, but they aren't.

Not what I meant to do. Just stressing we the fact that we have up to 10 buttons that we use that I don't see the Wiimote replicating their functionality easily or well.

Originally Posted by jokell82 

In fact, the Wii controller has only two less buttons than the xbox360 controller, so it's not the Wiimote is a huge step backwards in buttons.

And how many of them are viably usable when not in controller mode? The trigger and the A button?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

No kidding.
Not what I meant to do. Just stressing we the fact that we have up to 10 buttons that we use that I don't see the Wiimote replicating their functionality easily or well.

And how many of them are viably usable when not in controller mode? The trigger and the A button?

A, B, 1, 2, C, and Z (I include the nunchuck because it's basically a required attachment, especially if you're going to try and play an FPS game). The wiimote typically will use the D-Pad as four separate buttons as well, similar to how the 360 controls work.

The only difference is that instead of one analog control, you use the gyroscope/sensor function of the wiimote.

I'm not trying to say it's not different - of course it is. But the functionality of other controllers is represented in the wiimote. Plus the classic controller basically mimics every other standard controller out there, if you'd rather use that.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

Here's an example.

My daughter needed help with Super Paper Mario, so she gives me the Wii controller. I didn't know WTF to do with the thing. Why? Because usually, on a STANDARD controller, X is jump, O is alt, etc. On the sideways Wii, you have to press A, 1, 2. I said to her "babe, how the hell does this thing work?". Had it been a PS/Xbox-type controller I wouldn't need to ask. The Wiimote is too non-standard that even I don't know how to use the friggin' thing. And before you jump all over me, just remember that even for Nintendo, changing the jump button to "2" is non-standard, it should be the largest button on the controller, "A", but it's not. "A" is used to go from 2D to 3D. That's like when the American version of FF VII used O where X usually is because the Japanese use O and we use X. To this day it throws me off.

Don't be dumb. You'd have to experiment on any controller if you were picking up a game for the first time. If you were to apply your button scheme to Marvel Ultimate Alliance on the 360 you'd be just as lost, as Y (the top-most button) jumps, as opposed to the X you would think it was.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

A, B, 1, 2, C, and Z (I include the nunchuck because it's basically a required attachment, especially if you're going to try and play an FPS game). The wiimote typically will use the D-Pad as four separate buttons as well, similar to how the 360 controls work.

I could see getting used to using the d-pad (though I find it's use difficult even on the PS2), but I think its a joke that it's going to be easy for your thumb to reach back and hit the 1 and 2 buttons quickly.

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I'm not trying to say it's not different - of course it is. But the functionality of other controllers is represented in the wiimote.

Ok. I'm sure we'll get a chance to see this.

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Plus the classic controller basically mimics every other standard controller out there, if you'd rather use that.

For some reason I'm under the impression you don't have a choice on which controller to use for a game. You can use the classic controller with the Wii Zelda instead of the Wiimote?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

For some reason I'm under the impression you don't have a choice on which controller to use for a game. You can use the classic controller with the Wii Zelda instead of the Wiimote?

It's on a per-game basis. I don't think Zelda will work with the classic controller. It'll say on the back of the game box (I can check when I get home from work).

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

It's on a per-game basis.

Ok, but I find that conflicting with:

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Plus the classic controller basically mimics every other standard controller out there, if you'd rather use that.

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

And how many of them are viably usable when not in controller mode? The trigger and the A button?

Exactly right dakar. Buttons other than the trigger and the A button are USEABLE, but that's all. They're not, by any stretch of the imagination, nice or easy to use. There is no way in freaking hell you'd find me playing Gears of War or Halo with the Wiimote over the 360 control, which is in my view the best hand controller to grace a console to date. I'm no M$ fanboy, and I do like the idea of the wiimote, but that's been my experience so far.
The concept of ergonomics doesn't seem to play into anything other than the few primary buttons and the motion control, all of which are fantastic. For modern games, we need better access to the other buttons. Even the d-pad can be very awkward at times, particularly when you need to get to a specific direction urgently, which would be very frequent in a complex shooter.

Having said all of this, I haven't played RE4 and I'd love to check it out, coz it's not overly complex in terms of controls, and should translate very well. Everything in my mind says that the wiimote will suck for more complex shooters. Time will tell.

[starman]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Don't be dumb. You'd have to experiment on any controller if you were picking up a game for the first time. If you were to apply your button scheme to Marvel Ultimate Alliance on the 360 you'd be just as lost, as Y (the top-most button) jumps, as opposed to the X you would think it was.

Does the X button attack? I didn't say the X is ALWAYS for jumping, just for a platformer like Mario, Crash Bandicoot, etc.

Duh.

[starman]

I will bet they'll build Metroid FOR the controller and people will love it, but you're right, that kind of control scheme doesn't work with games like Halo and GoW. Not now, not ever. Anyone who thinks it can work has never gotten into a FPS with a controller before.

(and don't get me started on controller vs. keyboard. Keyboards will bitchslap the Wiimote to Kingdom Come)

[icruise]

I think you're taking the wrong approach in arguing against the Wiimote, starman. I don't think the fact that you couldn't figure out how to do something when you first picked up the controller (without having played the tutorial, etc) is much of a knock against it. There are, however, a number of problems with it.

One is that developers seem obligated to add motion controls whether a game really benefits from them or not (and in many cases, it arguably hurts gameplay). I guess they do this partially because motion controls are expected of Wii games, and partially because the number of buttons that are realistically accessible is less than that on more conventional controllers. In order to access the same number of commands, you often have to add some sort of motion control scheme.

With regard to FPS games, the biggest problem is simply the lack of two analog sticks. The Wii remote's IR pointing function is meant to replace the "aiming" stick on a traditional controller, but it doesn't work nearly as well (despite the apparent simplicity of just "pointing" at the screen).

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I think you're taking the wrong approach in arguing against the Wiimote, starman. I don't think the fact that you couldn't figure out how to do something when you first picked up the controller (without having played the tutorial, etc) is much of a knock against it. There are, however, a number of problems with it.

One is that developers seem obligated to add motion controls whether a game really benefits from them or not (and in many cases, it arguably hurts gameplay). I guess they do this partially because motion controls are expected of Wii games, and partially because the number of buttons that are realistically accessible is less than that on more conventional controllers. In order to access the same number of commands, you often have to add some sort of motion control scheme.

With regard to FPS games, the biggest problem is simply the lack of two analog sticks. The Wii remote's IR pointing function is meant to replace the "aiming" stick on a traditional controller, but it doesn't work nearly as well (despite the apparent simplicity of just "pointing" at the screen).

Bingo. The lame implementation in many wii games is a symptom of the lack of other config options. No buttons left to assign?
Wave your arms around a bit...

[KisforKennedy]

Again. It's a fad. Also, it's cheap. Which helps add to the fad. It won't amount to **** in 2 years. Meanwhile, in 2 years, the Ps3 will be shoving a rock hard 12" cock up the 360's ass without permission, so to speak.

[pyrite]

tasteful...

[exca1ibur]

Too much information...

[Stogieman]

Sure it will. Just like the PSP was suppose to kick DS and it's "gimmicky dual screen" ass.

In other news, the Wii is predicted to overtake the Xbox 360 in worldwide sales by the end of August. Digg - Wii sales are now just 1.28 million behind Xbox360 worldwide!!

[icruise]

Let's try to keep the discussion PG-13, shall we?

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

Sure it will. Just like the PSP was suppose to kick DS and it's "gimmicky dual screen" ass.

In other news, the Wii is predicted to overtake the Xbox 360 in worldwide sales by the end of August. Digg - Wii sales are now just 1.28 million behind Xbox360 worldwide!!

A good result... now if only they can start releasing more than one great title every 9 months

THAT might get me interested...

[Hawkeye_a]

Are those numbers accurate ? At best i thought the Wii would surpass the XB360 after holiday '07. Go gimmick go !!!

PS>> If dual screens are gimmicks, what does that make UMD ?

[Dakarʒ]

I'd believe it. The 360 lost it's 50%+ marketshare a month or two ago, and the rate at which the Wii has been gaining had me guessing it'd be tied with it by September or October.

Of course, that's when some big titles start hitting, so that may never happen.