[Andrew Ruess]

Had a grand old time last night, and left the Apple Store in Washington Square in Beaverton, Oregon with my very own little Power Mac G5 Dual 2.7 appropriately named Vuclan. Because, he will, you know, let me... create stuff? It isn't like hes just going to sit there and run World of Warcraft all day... no way mister! Of course not!

All photos can be found here (to preserve formatting of thread).

Well, lets start it off... Amazingly fast. Smooth as butter. Dual layer DVD is very slick. I cannot say enough good things about it. Adobe CS pops in seconds rather than half-minutes (on my PowerBook), Virtual PC looks actually usable if somewhat broken by Tiger, and everything is up and running.

Potential for Bluetooth upgrade kit soon (similar to Mac mini). Bluetooth was a deal breaker, either include it or I'm going to the Apple Store online, but I will meddle along with my wired keyboard for the next couple of weeks until the Bluetooth 2.0+EDR kits get in stock. Then we'll have a nice little visit with the Mac Genius for its installation. Maybe an ATI X800 too.

I cannot say enough good things about it. It blows my game rig away (Athlon 64 3500 with 1GB RAM, 640GB combined storage and XFX GeForce 6800GT).

Congratumalations Apple on a job well done!

<logs back into World of Warcraft>

[Kristoff]

Congrats.
Enjoy the machine, and welcome to MacNN

[Thain Esh Kelch]

It blows you AMD away? Could we get some performance comparisons? Especially in WOW..

[riotge@r]

Congrats on the new system! I bought a 2.7Ghz as well with an X800 XT card. I'm a bit skeptical about it blowing your AMD system way. My gaming system is twice as fast my 2.7Ghz machine in World of Warcraft.

[osxisfun]

nice. is that a 30" apple lcd?

[Andrew Ruess]

Originally Posted by Kristoff

Congrats.
Enjoy the machine, and welcome to MacNN

Thanks Kristoff. I've actually been lurking around MacNN for the past three years, but I've gone to post a couple of times in the past and it told me my account didn't have sufficient access privileges. Thought I'd just finally go ahead and make one.

Originally Posted by Thain Esh Kelch

It blows you AMD away? Could we get some performance comparisons? Especially in WOW..

Well, maybe I misphrased that. The 2.7 blows my AMD away in terms of responsiveness when I'm doing my actual job: the entirety of the Adobe Creative & Macromedia Suites. And Keynote/Pages for presentations and design docs. But most games, of course, will be faster on Windows XP with an Athlon 64.

However, I haven't seen any good comparisons on World of Warcraft on the two platforms, so I will try to create a comparison sometime this coming week.

Originally Posted by riotge@r

Congrats on the new system! I bought a 2.7Ghz as well with an X800 XT card.

Thanks much. Such an amazing machine, isn't she/he/it? I can't believe I waited two years to buy a Power Mac... should have done so back in June 2003.

Quick question for you: in World of Warcraft, what kind of difference were you able to achieve with the X800 over the 9650? I can max every graphical setting except for terrain distance and it runs pretty smoothly... would the X800 allow terrain distance to max out as well? What is your opinion?

Originally Posted by riotge@r

I'm a bit skeptical about it blowing your AMD system way. My gaming system is twice as fast my 2.7Ghz machine in World of Warcraft.

I just logged back in, and now I do have to agree that WoW isn't as Snappy(TM) as on the AMD... maybe I do need the X800? It wouldn't hurt the pocketbook to purchase it, but I would feel foolish if it changed little in terms of graphical smoothness in World of Warcraft.

Couldn't hurt in Homeworld 2 & Doom 3 though... that is the biggest beast.

Originally Posted by osxisfun

nice. is that a 30" apple lcd?

Thanks osxisfun. Only a 23" ACD... I jokingly suggest once in a while to my fiance that we should put the 30" on the wedding registry, but I don't think she'd go for it.

[riotge@r]

Originally Posted by Andrew Ruess

Thanks much. Such an amazing machine, isn't she/he/it? I can't believe I waited two years to buy a Power Mac... should have done so back in June 2003.

Quick question for you: in World of Warcraft, what kind of difference were you able to achieve with the X800 over the 9650? I can max every graphical setting except for terrain distance and it runs pretty smoothly... would the X800 allow terrain distance to max out as well? What is your opinion?

I just logged back in, and now I do have to agree that WoW isn't as Snappy(TM) as on the AMD... maybe I do need the X800? It wouldn't hurt the pocketbook to purchase it, but I would feel foolish if it changed little in terms of graphical smoothness in World of Warcraft.

Couldn't hurt in Homeworld 2 & Doom 3 though... that is the biggest beast.

With the X800 XT card I get average about 50 FPS at 1600x1200 with all 'terrain distance' set to high and everything else set to high, including turning on all shaders. I was getting about 16 FPS with the 9650 and details set to medium across the board. It was enough of a difference to where I now play WoW exclusively on my mac.

[UnixMac]

Congrats on the new top dog system! As for games, as benchmarks of performance... don't forget guys, games are written on, coded for, and optimized for PC/Windows... don't let the crappy performance on your Mac of a game fool you into thinking a PC has more power... no, it's just that a PC has a much larger market to sell those $50 games to and as such all of the effort goes into the PC version, and a small (relative) budget goes into a Mac port!

[redoid]

congrats!

shame about the 23 though ... 30" is what you needed to pair up with a 2.7 ghz

[Andrew Ruess]

Originally Posted by riotge@r

With the X800 XT card I get average about 50 FPS at 1600x1200 with all 'terrain distance' set to high and everything else set to high, including turning on all shaders. I was getting about 16 FPS with the 9650 and details set to medium across the board. It was enough of a difference to where I now play WoW exclusively on my mac.

Thanks for the information riotge@r. I guess I'll press the button and order my X800 later today direct from ATI. They've got a nice 10% discount going right now and shipping is about $7, bringing the total to around $457. A lot better than our local chain of Macintosh stores called, appropriately enough, The Mac Store who are charging $550 in their eastside shop and $600 in their westside shop. Crooks.

Originally Posted by UnixMac

Congrats on the new top dog system! As for games, as benchmarks of performance... don't forget guys, games are written on, coded for, and optimized for PC/Windows... don't let the crappy performance on your Mac of a game fool you into thinking a PC has more power... no, it's just that a PC has a much larger market to sell those $50 games to and as such all of the effort goes into the PC version, and a small (relative) budget goes into a Mac port!

Indeed UnixMac! I have to completely agree. However, it is nice to be able to sit down and goof off in Rise of Nations or Dungeon Siege on my PowerBook during downtime, even if it isn't as silky smooth (well, scratch that: both of those *are* silky smooth) as the Windows game rig.

There are many notable companies doing great work on the Mac, like Epic, Blizzard, and id (although not so much on Doom 3). I hope to see a lot more investment in the Mac OS X platform from game developers in the near future because of Xcode 2 and OS X 10.4 Tiger.

Originally Posted by redoid

congrats!

shame about the 23 though ... 30" is what you needed to pair up with a 2.7 ghz

Thanks redoid! You know... always possible in the future. I think the only way I could get away with that though is by donating the 23" to my office (likely to be paired with an older G5 Dual 2.0).

Because, um... I need a 23" to administer the servers... yea, thats it!

[Skypat]

Hello Andrew,

could you please tell me about Bluetooth ... is BT 2.0 included as BTO or do they still install a 1.0 card ? If they do, is it possible to upgrade later (with a card, not a bluetooth key) ?

Thanks

[Andrew Ruess]

Originally Posted by Skypat

Hello Andrew,

could you please tell me about Bluetooth ... is BT 2.0 included as BTO or do they still install a 1.0 card ? If they do, is it possible to upgrade later (with a card, not a bluetooth key) ?

Thanks

Hi Skypat.

You know, I thought your name looked familiar. I actually responded to that other thread about Bluetooth over here.

Anywho, the Bluetooth BTO is 2.0+EDR. It is weird that Apple's Power Mac G5 Technical Specifications do not list Bluetooth 2.0+EDR, but you can easily find it listed in their online store. Odd, no?

Go to the Apple Store, click on the Power Macs, select any of the Dual 2.0s or above, and then under the Wireless Options click Learn More. The page that loads lists Bluetooth 2.0+EDR as the Bluetooth you would be installing in the BTO.

Originally Posted by Apple Online Store Power Mac G5 Configuration Page

Internal Bluetooth 2.0+EDR (Enhanced Data Rate) Module:

Apple's internal Bluetooth module fits completely inside the computer so there's nothing that sticks out or can break off and it's easy to secure. This module allows you to connect your Power Mac G5 with Bluetooth-enabled peripheral devices, such as the Apple Wireless Keyboard or Wireless Mouse, mobile phones and PDAs wirelessly. Synchronize data or send files without using an inch of cable.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the Single 1.8Ghz machine only supports Bluetooth 1.0. Probably because Apple didn't update the interior; it is the same model that was being sold two weeks ago.

The wonderful thing about the Bluetooth modules, however, is that they are not soldered on the system board. It merely connects via an internal USB header and sits on two risers above the system board. You can buy after-market upgrade kits from retailers like Small Dog (for example, the antenna or the actual board) and simply install it yourself (as shown in this guide).

And this little snippet from the Official Apple Power Mac G5 Technical Specifications page gives me hope:

Originally Posted by Official Apple Power Mac G5 Technical Specifications

Wireless Options:

AirPort Extreme ready (based on 802.11g specification; IEEE 802.11b Wi-Fi certified); Bluetooth option (build-to-order option; also available as an Apple Authorized Service Provider upgrade kit on dual-processor systems)

Bold text is my emphasis. I hopety hope hope hope this means soon I will be able to buy the Bluetooth 2.0+EDR internal board & antenna from some random online parts purveyor like Small Dog or simply take it back to the Apple Store for upgrade.

The downside is that so far *no one* knows this is possible, or even realizes the part is orderable from Apple or AppleCare. Having called official Apple Stores in Portland, Seattle, San Franscisco, Chicago, and New York (what? I have Vonage!) some of the geniuses I get on the phone say, "Sorry, can't be done. You're smoking crack." I direct them to the page, they see it, and say, "Uh... might be a typo. Can't be done. You're smoking crack." The other half say, "You know, entirely possible. They released an upgrade kit for the Mac mini a month or so after it was released... call us back in a few weeks, we might know more."

I already have the Apple Bluetooth Keyboard and can't use it. My future phone and 12" PowerBook will both have Bluetooth 2.0+EDR, so it would be nice to have it on my desktop too. Since it is just an internal USB install, I'm almost willing to order one of the Bluetooth 1.0 boards and slap it in there... but I think I will give it a month or so for the Apple people to let their stores and Authorized Service Providers know upgrading a Power Mac G5 with an internal Bluetooth 2.0+EDR kit *is* something they can accomplish.

Anyone let me know if they get confirmation of this from an Apple representative.

[Skypat]

Hehe thank you Andrew I didn't see your previous post but this message was very complete anyway !! Have fun with your new G5

[Randman]

Congrats. Hope you got enough ram.

[G4ME]

thats the second apple store across from a victoria secrets, odd.

[riotge@r]

I have the D-Link bluetooth module and it works perfectly.

[Skypat]

By the way, the new iMac description states clearly "Built-in Bluetooth 2.0+EDR (Enhanced Data Rate) module". I wonder why it says nothing like that on the technical page of the PM G5 ... strange

[BZ]

Originally Posted by Skypat

By the way, the new iMac description states clearly "Built-in Bluetooth 2.0+EDR (Enhanced Data Rate) module". I wonder why it says nothing like that on the technical page of the PM G5 ... strange

Says it in the Store..

"Internal Bluetooth 2.0+EDR (Enhanced Data Rate) Module:
Apple's internal Bluetooth module fits completely inside the computer so there's nothing that sticks out or can break off and it's easy to secure. This module allows you to connect your Power Mac G5 with Bluetooth-enabled peripheral devices, such as the Apple Wireless Keyboard or Wireless Mouse, mobile phones and PDAs wirelessly. Synchronize data or send files without using an inch of cable. "

BZ

[Andrew Ruess]

Originally Posted by Skypat

Hehe thank you Andrew I didn't see your previous post but this message was very complete anyway !! Have fun with your new G5

You are quite welcome Skypat. My brain is a sponge for info such as this.

Originally Posted by Randman

Congrats. Hope you got enough ram.

Thanks Randman. Bumping the RAM from 512Mb to 2Gb; should be here the same time as the Altec Lansing FX6021 2.1 channel speaker system & ViewSonic VP201B I got from ZipZoomFly.com (the former for the Power Mac, the latter for the AMD, which incidentally used to be tethered to the 23" ACD). My fiance needs the larger screen and resolution for her academic pursuits... uh huh.

Originally Posted by G4ME

thats the second apple store across from a victoria secrets, odd.

Let me tell you, I wasn�t the only one to notice. A good percentage of the men behind us in line kept stealing glances or staring through its open doors... hoping for what I do not know.

Part of the deal I made with my fiance is that we had to stop there first. She really had to twist my arm on that too.

Originally Posted by riotge@r

I have the D-Link bluetooth module and it works perfectly.

I�ve been tempted to pick one up, but can�t bear the thought of losing a perfectly good USB port and possible future incompatibilities with any firmware updates released by Apple. Obviously we have USB replictors and hubs to combat the former, but if the former is just one more smaller thing I can avoid in the future for a more integrated product I have my credit card handy.

And Bluetooth 2.0+EDR. Future-proof... for a time.

[powertrippin]

Can I borrow some money? And by borrow I mean 'have'?

[AssassyN]

The fact that you're willing to just throw down for a graphics card that costs almost as much as a refurbished iBook in the Apple Sale section is astonishing...

Hopefully I'll be rich one day.

Congrats, too

[Andrew Ruess]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Can I borrow some money? And by borrow I mean 'have'?

What you need is a boss who is willing to subsidize computing costs and who is not completely knowledgable in what is necessary versus what is desired. I make him a lot of money, he pays me well, and we're starting a new venture together. He understands the value of breaking out his checkbook.

Originally Posted by AssassyN

The fact that you're willing to just throw down for a graphics card that costs almost as much as a refurbished iBook in the Apple Sale section is astonishing...

Hopefully I'll be rich one day.

Congrats, too

Thank you AssassyN.

As I remember you bought a 17" PowerBook and a Power Mac (can't remember what model) for your dorm room last year or the year prior? I watched those threads along with your review of the 17" with great fascination; your insights were a great resource for a budding Mac head.

Much in your own vein I've just graduated from university myself, and after years of dealing with subpar integration and constant problems on the Windows/Intel platform I'm willing to make sure my primary source of income and hobby works properly. I mean, all I've got is my fiance, my job, my computer & technology geekery, and my golf. I try to excel at all of them.

It isn't exactly a drop in the bucket for me, but the G5/ACD/X800/RAM/HD/FX6021 upgrade combo will be lasting me for a couple of years. I've escaped under $5,500 with a good portion being paid by my employer.

The refurbished iBook sounds like a good deal though. I'm not sure about the comparison, however, because the X800 is capable of a helluva lot more calculations than a little G4. Its probably got like 2 or 3 times the number of transistors found in a little G4.

All in all I can't say enough good things about the Power Mac G5. Its powerful, expandable for my needs, and capable of running the best operating system developed by human hands thus far. And its residual value after three or four years will probably be pretty high...

[AssassyN]

^ Wow, that WAS awhile ago! Heh, yeah I saved up forever to get that 17" PB and quickly found out it was too large for classrooms, so I downgraded to a 12" PB that I still have. I used my dualie G4 for awhile before selling, as I got a job working in a lab of Dual G5s

And I understand now seeing as how it went through your employer...good deal. My only issue was that if you've got a swell gaming PC that runs WoW great, there's no need for an X800 unless you're doing Maya or something. Just my $0.02!

And even MORE congrats on the fiance!! That's wonderful! I actually just purchased a ring myself about a month ago that'll hopefully be slipping on my lady's hand within a year or so. We've been together years now, so things are looking great

Enjoy the new Mac!

[Andrew Ruess]

Originally Posted by AssassyN

^ Wow, that WAS awhile ago! Heh, yeah I saved up forever to get that 17" PB and quickly found out it was too large for classrooms, so I downgraded to a 12" PB that I still have. I used my dualie G4 for awhile before selling, as I got a job working in a lab of Dual G5s

And I understand now seeing as how it went through your employer...good deal. My only issue was that if you've got a swell gaming PC that runs WoW great, there's no need for an X800 unless you're doing Maya or something. Just my $0.02!

And even MORE congrats on the fiance!! That's wonderful! I actually just purchased a ring myself about a month ago that'll hopefully be slipping on my lady's hand within a year or so. We've been together years now, so things are looking great

Enjoy the new Mac!

The AMD is in fact *swanktastic* but unusable some of the time because my fiance hogs it for academic pursuits. Not much else to do when getting your Masters in Public Administration, I guess. We're both lucky to have found jobs in which we can work from home.

The X800 allows us to go spelunking together in World of Warcraft (Argent Dawn r0x0z!) without one of choking to death on a laptop. My PowerBook 15" 1.25Ghz with 5400RPM 100Gb drive can barely handle a raid party, and her Toshiba laptop barely gets the job done any better. Money well spent to play with the fiance.

I'll be posting some differences in framerate and responsiveness when my X800 gets here Friday.

I feel like such a sissy though... she a 45 (46?) Tauren Shaman, me a 42 Undead Warlock.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by Andrew Ruess

I feel like such a sissy though... she a 45 (46?) Tauren Shaman, me a 42 Undead Warlock.

Emasculated.�

I figure once I get my job at ~$200 a week, I can afford to get a nice G5. How much of a ripoff is paying in installments through Apple?
God you're lucky.

[AssassyN]

^ MASSIVE RIPOFF. You're better off getting a low-interest (or sometimes you can get a 0% intro rate, or balance transfer) rate from a credit card. The Apple loans are STUPID expensive...somewhere like 20%+ APR. It's crazy. Whatever you do, don't go through Apple. Check other avenues first (put on your parent's or friend's CC & pay them back?)

[CreepingDeth]

Um...my parents' credit isn't...good. I'll look into it.

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by AssassyN

I actually just purchased a ring myself about a month ago that'll hopefully be slipping on my lady's hand within a year or so.

Congrats. Hopefully it doesn't look anything like those godawful wheels.

[AssassyN]

^ Those "awful" wheels were during my "16 year old" days when it was fly to have huge rims. They've since been sold for a nice price actually, and I now drive a very clean 2002 35th Anniversary Cougar, black w/ black & silver leather and of course, a manual.

Thanks!