[chengjt]

Hi folks,

Need some help to troubleshoot. I upgraded 9.0.4 to 9.1 about 2 or 3 weeks ago. I'm getting one or two freezes a day. The only thing I could was to do a warm reset. Any suggestion on what is the possible cause?

I have a 400MHz pismo with 192MB. All firmware updates have been done. I have recently installed IOMega tools and FAXstf511 update. The latter gave me problems and I have disabled the extensions. As for IOmega tools, I disabled the extensions and the freezes still happen. So, I re-enabled them. I have also trashed some preferences and the PRAM. And it still freezes.

About the freeze, it seems to happen when I start using the mac after it is resting for a while. So, usually the disk sleeps and maybe the display dims. Even if I'm not using the network, it still occurs. Whether I'm using Airport or ethernet, it still occurs. So, I'm at a loss what is causing it. I didn't want to re-install every damn thing as it will take too much of time (compared with waiting for DFA to fisk the disk after restart).

Any help will be much appreciated.

- JT -

[MickS]

What are you using for email? I found that Outlook Express caused me lots of problems on 9.1. So much so that I dropped it in the trash

[chengjt]

Originally posted by MickS:
What are you using for email? I found that Outlook Express caused me lots of problems on 9.1. So much so that I dropped it in the trash

I used MS Entourage. Usually, I got the freezes in iCab, MS Internet Explorer, or MS Word. iCab seems to be the most frequent as it's the most frequent app I used.

PS: I also tried with VM on. It still freezes.

- JT _

[mark_r]

I'm also getting this (actually, just a minute ago). Same configuration for me, 400MHz , 192Mb PowerBook. I'm using Outlook for Exchange Server, but the crashes often happen during Explorer 5, and with Audion. It also happens after some time away from the machine.

Sometimes I have noticed that the USB mouse freezes, but the trackpad still works - but usually a few minutes later the whole thing crashes anyway.

Zapping the PRAM makes no difference.

This 9.1 seems a real pain.

[MickS]

The problem I had with MS Outlook was that if I was actively doing something with another app whilst it was picking up mail in the background it would hang the machine.

It could be that this is the same with Entourage.

[machappy]

do you need to have Iomegaware installed? if not, 86 it quick as possible. It brought my system to its knees several times.

[chengjt]

Originally posted by machappy:
do you need to have Iomegaware installed? if not, 86 it quick as possible. It brought my system to its knees several times.

The Iomegaware on my PB works fine. Even if I turn off the Iomega extensions, it still freezes ... So, it does not make a difference. Besides, there is mix opinion on whether the Iomegaware runs well.

- JT -

[Fyre4ce]

*chuckle*

I, three, have a Pismo 400 MHz with 192 MB RAM. And I, three, experienced the frequent crashing problem you described after upgrading to 9.1. I figured out the problem:

Cache Profiler v1.3

It's not compatible with Mac OS 9.1. I upgraded to v1.4b1. It's available at their website: http://www.powerlogix.com/

I hope this is the problem you describe. It's an easy fix!

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[Cipher13]

Is that a common thing between all three of you?
I've gotta say, ditch the MS apps and the MS libraries. Its probably one of those, not compatible with 9.1, bringing everything down...
Probably a MS Internet library...

Cipher13

[VRL]

This may sound a bit strange, but give your Extensions Manager control panel more memory. A good friend a mine and I were troubleshooting similar weird behavior, and it did the trick. In fact, I'm surfing the net on his powerbook G3 (running OS 9.1) right now :-)

BTW, we have found in the past that when there's a problem, one of the first things to do is to get rid of (or turn off) all things Microsoft. It has worked more than a few times. Interesting, huh?!

[chengjt]

I've installed the Cache Profiler. It seems ok for now. I'll update this page a few days later to see if it still freezes.

- JT -

[chengjt]

Originally posted by chengjt:
I've installed the Cache Profiler. It seems ok for now. I'll update this page a few days later to see if it still freezes.

Well, it's been a few days already and I have had total of 3 freezes (twice today). So I must declare that the cache profiler does not work fully, but it seems to help reduce the number of occurrences. I have tried tuning the cache ratio to 5:2, and it still freeze.

Any other suggestion than those from cipher13? I can't live without MS stuff as my customers use them ...

- JT -

[shalom777]

Do you have MOM (Microsoft Office Manager) installed? After I upgraded to 9.1 my PBG3 gave my fits until I found that it didn't like MOM for some reason.

I've got many, if not all, of the programs that you mentioned, so I'm sure we're running similar extension sets.

As far as ditching the MS libraries ... if any of your MS apps need them, they either won't work or it will reinstall what it needs on it's own. Got to *love* MicroSucks ...

Another thought ... Have you reinstalled any MS apps lately? I've noticed that a lot of them use the same extensions/libraries, but their not always the same versions. If you installed an app that uses an older version of an extension, then that might be a problem.

Clear as mud?

[chengjt]

Originally posted by shalom777:
Do you have MOM (Microsoft Office Manager) installed? After I upgraded to 9.1 my PBG3 gave my fits until I found that it didn't like MOM for some reason.

No, I don't use MOM.

Another thought ... Have you reinstalled any MS apps lately? I've noticed that a lot of them use the same extensions/libraries, but their not always the same versions. If you installed an app that uses an older version of an extension, then that might be a problem.

No, I installed the MS Apps before upgrading to 9.1.

- JT -

[chengjt]

Hi,

Now I'm wondering if my frequent freezes arise from overheating of the CPU? Any idea what it's like if the CPU overheat? Will the OS somehow lose itself?

I came to this conclusion after observing the way I used my PB. At home, I usually place my PB on a elevated coolpad. But in office, it's usually sitting on my PB case and the freezes never happen immediately when I boot up from cold.

PS: Is there a way to force the Powerbook fan turn on manually?

- Jang Thye -

[chengjt]

Hi,

I think the problem is kinda solved by turning off "allow processor cycling" in Energy Saver control panel advanced settings ....

Just make sure that if you have multiple locations, you need to turn all of them off ....

- JT -

I've had issues with 9.1 and these types of freezes, usually just after a HD spin down. I suspect Energy Saver problems. At first, I thought it was IE, since usually I was in IE typing, say, a post. . But later recognized that it was almost always related not to IE but the HD spin downs, or sometimesHD spin-ups after the drive had spun down. Someone on these boards pointed me to the energy saver idea.

My "fix" was to increase the amount of time before a HD spin-down.

Less energy-efficient, but the freezes stopped.

If you do not need it, Trash the USB Mass Storage extension immediately. I had a persistent crash until I found that this was causing the trouble.

If you have the freezes when running a PowerBook on its battery, you need to turn off the Processor Recycling in the energy saver. This is incompatible with USB cards and will crash the finder guaranteed.

I'm also having lockups with my 2 day old Pismo 400, 192MB.

It started out of the box on the first boot up "Apple Audio" bombed. After a reboot, all seemed fine - running a DVD locked the system.

I reinstalled off the System CD (OS9) and promptly upgraded to 9.1. I don't run with many extensions, and the only MS product I run is IE.

It will do a hard lock up where I have to pull the power and the battery in order to reboot. It will do this lockup just sitting there idiling or while I'm using Photoshop, Quicken, or SimTower - the only programs I have loaded on it.

I'm planning on running the diagnostic CD that came with the 'book and checking for Apple updates tonight. Just seeing if anyone else out there has had these freezes.

I will say that the "out of box experience" was poor and if I was a new Mac user, the thing would of been shipped back post haste.

-s'fit

i think we have a bona fide bug here.
I too have a pismo 400 with 192mb of ram
I too have experienced similar freezing for no apparent reason.
i too had the machine bomb on the first start-up at the audio extension. but has booted fine ever since.
I can't trace it to anything in particular, perhaps energy saver as it seems to happen when the screen is dimmed or on batter power. the trackpad just disappers and the machine locks. but the three finger salute will bring it back.
this is very odd behavior. glad to know i'm not the only one. unfortunately, i don't use cache profiler so that isn't my problem.
i wish i could get rid of ms junk, but i'm a word user user and have no choice.
i like 9.1 otherwise. it feels a bit snappier generally, and especially waking from sleep it's about 10 seconds faster, which makes a big difference.

Definitely try the Processor Cycling trick.

It was the only thing that worked for me.

Processor cycling for me is turned off.

I ran both sets of diagnostics last night and everything passes. So, one would assume that it isn't a hardware problem (if the Apple Diagnostics are to be believed).

My lockups don't happen when the screen dims - and I don't run on battery power - it just does it whenever it wants. Three finger salute doesn't work either.

I tried to use the laptop last night for an hour after the testing. Locked up 8 times within that hour.

I think I'll be wiping the drive (again) and stay with the original OS that shipped with the 'book and see if the problems continue.

-s'fit

[Toinou]

Maybe a defective RAM module ?
I've seen some weird things with 'cheap' PC133 in a Dual brained G4.
Check this, if it's still not working, install a clean OS on a disk warrior checked HD, and see what's happening
... just my 2 cents advice....

Toinou

[chengjt]

Hi,

My freeze problem didn't really go away totally. It still comes, but not that frequently. But if it hits me, it's when I need to show something to my boss' boss on the powerbook. Ugh !!!!

Anyway, I'm eagerly waiting for my OS X .... which should be on its way soon.

PS: Replying to andybarton, I don't use any USB device on my powerbook most of the time, so I don't think it's caused by USB device.

- JT -

[chengjt]

Hi,

The 'freeze' problem seems to go away after I've re-installed OS9.1 from the install CD over the same disk partition (without wiping out the disk) ....

PS: Though it seems to introduce other failures (which does not result in freeze up).

- JT -

Add me to the list.

Same Powerbook
Same Applications
Same Symptoms

No problems under 9.0.4. Upgraded to 9.1 - freezes.

I have made no other changes to the system besides the OS upgrade.

[VRL]

Give the Extensions Manager control panel more memory (Get Info window). If problems persist, temporarily disable all MS extensions/control panels. Worth a try, isn't it???

OS 9.1 is running on our Powerbook G3 (bronze) without a hitch.

Best regards ...