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Koda · Jan 21, 2006, 04:50 AM

I'm hoping I can get some of your opinions.

I am a member of a union that is currently taking questionable actions, including the deduction of a full days pay off all members (minimum estimated value $4mil) in order to pay off a large debt. A lot of members are suspecting financial mismanagement on the Union's behalf.

In order to take the days pay. the Union has broken their constitution. They did have a vote on this issue but told only a tiny percentage of members and only ended up with a mere 1500 votes cast on the issue. That is from over 50 locals and 15-20,000 members. The vote only affects some and not all members as well. Some locals are fully exempt.

The break in the constitution was that there were insufficient total votes and insufficient yes votes to win. The constitution clearly spelled out the minimum requirements that were not met.

Questions:
a) what are the options the members have available?
b) is this legal?
c) how can we trust a union that has broken their own constitution?

wallinbl · Jan 21, 2006, 08:53 AM

Jimmy Hoffa

Railroader · Jan 21, 2006, 09:03 AM

Call some lawyers. It doesn't sound legal. But you're in Canada, so things might be different there.

I assure you, the union members of the union I am in would NOT accept this kind of behavior. But then my union has about 1 billion dollars in it's coffers.

turtle777 · Jan 21, 2006, 03:15 PM

Muahahahahaha. The union screws its own members

turtle777 · Jan 21, 2006, 07:52 PM

Can't you just leave the union ?
Sorry for my ignorance, I never was member of a union, nor will I ever be.

-t

DigitalEl · Jan 22, 2006, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I never was member of a union, nor will I ever be.

No matter your personal feelings on unions, many who are members aren't necessarily members by choice. In some professions and at some workplaces you simply HAVE to be a member to work there. This is even in some businesses you wouldn't think of as being unionized. Take your local TV anchors and reporters, for instance... Or Hollywood actors.

Eriamjh · Jan 22, 2006, 09:53 AM

You need to gether everyone and sue the union after talking to your lawyer(s). Did you report it to the media?

nerd · 03:11 PM

You should call your local labor board and see what they say. We used to be a union shop but it was run really bad. We got together and campaigned everyone to vote it out. All it took was calling the labor board so say we want a vote. They'll have you get a certain percentage of signatures to support your side. If you get those (11 in our case) then the date for the vote is set and your employer has to post sample ballots all over the shop.

If there is only 50 at your shop (not the whole union) then you can probably still vote it out from your shop. Our shop was 48 people out of about 800 locally. This was in New Mexico.

I'm not anti-union and believe they have their places but at our shop there was so much back stabbing it made me sick. I walked the picket lines 12 years a go when the union came into our shop, then when layoffs came (about 6 years later) the union tried to get others their jobs back and say I should have been laid off instead. So much for seniority and the simple fact that these guys didn't do near as good of a job as I did. I'm in TV and know every technical job in the building, the ones laid off only know editing. I would watch the old union guys treat the new employees like crap, like they were only interested in their retirement, not the union as a whole. Enough said. If they are corrupt get them out.

Check out this site for more information. http://www.nrtw.org/

festeringwounds · Jan 22, 2006, 02:29 PM

My advice would be to join GM's union. They pay you 50 grand to rivet pieces of metal together all day with full retirement and healthplans! You can even show up to work drunk!

thunderous_funker · Jan 22, 2006, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by festeringwounds

My advice would be to join GM's union. They pay you 50 grand to rivet pieces of metal together all day with full retirement and healthplans! You can even show up to work drunk!

And how much do GM execs make to run that company into the ground?

festeringwounds · Jan 22, 2006, 03:27 PM

That too.

thunderous_funker · Jan 22, 2006, 03:31 PM

Bottom line: all forms of human organization are susceptible to corruption and mismanagement. Hopefully your Union has mechanisms which allow its members to punish wrong-doing and restore confidence.

If your Union reps broke the rules or did something untoward, fire them. That's how the system works.

t6hawk · Jan 22, 2006, 05:00 PM

That union sounds a lot like the one I'm part of. IF it is, a simple vote to get the union out would fail since it is spread between 2 provinces. The problem I have with my union is failure of communication.

turtle777 · Jan 22, 2006, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by DigitalEl

[/b]No matter your personal feelings on unions, many who are members aren't necessarily members by choice. In some professions and at some workplaces you simply HAVE to be a member to work there. This is even in some businesses you wouldn't think of as being unionized. Take your local TV anchors and reporters, for instance... Or Hollywood actors.

Ok, so is that by means of peer pressure or what ?
I can't imagine it being legal to make union membership mandatory for a job in the US ?

-t

turtle777 · Jan 22, 2006, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by festeringwounds

My advice would be to join GM's union. They pay you 50 grand to rivet pieces of metal together all day with full retirement and healthplans! You can even show up to work drunk!

Yeah, that's why GM is going down. And the stupid government is gonna bail them out.

-t

Chuckit · Jan 22, 2006, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Ok, so is that by means of peer pressure or what ?
I can't imagine it being legal to make union membership mandatory for a job in the US ?

-t

The places aren't allowed to hire non-union workers or the unions will get pissy.

nerd · Jan 22, 2006, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Ok, so is that by means of peer pressure or what ?
I can't imagine it being legal to make union membership mandatory for a job in the US ?

-t

This is what's called a right to work state. If your in a right to work state then your not required to join the union. I am not positive on this but I believe a union can still negotiate the mandatory membership in the contract in a right to work state. Isn't this what 'union card checks' is about?

Not ever state in the US is a right to work state so not everyone has a choice.

jjlannoo · 07:39 PM

LOL I see this turning into a pro/con thread. Unions are a volatile subject. IMO It doesn't sound right. I don't have all the facts though. There may be some exemption that allows this.

I am a member of the UFCW Local 876. Unions can be good and bad (corrupt) it depends. I think there are around 22 "right to work" states and I think I read that on average they make less money,benefits etc. then union shops with exceptions of course.

Doofy · Jan 22, 2006, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Ok, so is that by means of peer pressure or what ?
I can't imagine it being legal to make union membership mandatory for a job in the US ?

It certainly ain't legal over here in commie land. Which is a bit of a strange reversal if you think about it.

Railroader · Jan 23, 2006, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by festeringwounds

My advice would be to join GM's union. They pay you 50 grand to rivet pieces of metal together all day with full retirement and healthplans! You can even show up to work drunk!

Liar. Quit spreading FUD.

You show up drunk or with any amount of illegal drugs in your system and you are fired and the union will not fight to get your job back. The system is called "Zero Tolerance" and is posted in the enterance of every GM owned factory.

I'll bet you couldn't do a GM job for more than 3 hours Rob. You have no idea what it's like to work on an assembly line. You collapse on your first day and not return to work. I've seen it happen to bigger guys than you. It's both mentally and physically challenging.

Railroader · Jan 23, 2006, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Yeah, that's why GM is going down. And the stupid government is gonna bail them out.

-t

uh... no.

Railroader · Jan 23, 2006, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Ok, so is that by means of peer pressure or what ?
I can't imagine it being legal to make union membership mandatory for a job in the US ?

-t

You can opt out of paying union dues where I work if you want to. You will still have the benifits of being a union member, you just don't have to pay.

The dues aren't much for the protection you can get. I pay 2 hours of pay per month.

Though I can't imagine how strongly the union will defend a member who doesn't pay their union dues.

Railroader · Jan 23, 2006, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker

Bottom line: all forms of human organization are susceptible to corruption and mismanagement. Hopefully your Union has mechanisms which allow its members to punish wrong-doing and restore confidence.

If your Union reps broke the rules or did something untoward, fire them. That's how the system works.

Exactly.

Monique · Jan 23, 2006, 12:02 PM

Are you talking about the TWU? If so, employees voted for this deduction. If not write and include copies of your pay cheque to the central union office and if you have no result write to the headquarters of this union in the U.S. Not all unions are corrupt and have proof before you accuse someone of corruption.

And for those who are against unions, think do you like your sick days, your fair schedule, your raises, your fair wages, your vacation days, your paid visits to the doctor, your protection against abusive managers... if so you got those because of the unions not because your boss care about you.