[P]

Originally Posted by Gamoe 

A netbook need not run a fully featured version of Mac OS X. It could operate with an OS like that of the iPod Touch. Of course, a full version would be great. Let's hope Snow Leopard delivers.

This is where it becomes a Palm foleo. Those things just don't sell in any volume - my personal guess is that you either bring a bag of some sort, in which case you can use a laptop, or you don't, in which case you don't want anything bigger than a phone. A slightly smaller laptop: OK, possible. Lenovo is making good business selling those undersized Thinkpads, and I can see a Macbook like that, once we have RI. That is a fully powered model though, with a Core duo and a regular HD.

[Big Mac]

People are predicting huge things for the Netbook market. It seems obvious that Apple will want to compete a growing market. I think SJ's comments are subterfuge.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Well welcome to the netbook. What do you expect for $400-$600? What do you think going to a single-core Atom with 512kB L2 cache on a 533 MHz bus would feel like? Even more so if you'd ever consider running the current version of Windows on it? Hello?

People, please wake up. Netbooks are cheap. And you get what you pay for. Netbooks are not the magic solution to "a Mac cheaper than the MB". They are cheap low-end disposable computers for a special type of use. If you want to do heavy-duty stuff on a notebook, then by all means don't get a cheap netbook. If you want to do lightweight stuff a cheap netbook might suffice as your mobile companion. In that sense an old 12" PB could be considered very suitable (apart from its weight maybe, and of course some would consider it still too big for a netbook).

If a 12" PB isn't fast enough to suit your needs, pretty much no netbook will be.
If a 12" PB isn't small enough to suit your needs, you should definitely take a look at a real netbook, i.e. not a Mac.

How much quality time have you spent with any of the current netbook offerings?

My Acer Aspire One is amazing. The keyboard is perfect, battery life is long (I can go for five to six hours with brightness down and wireless on), it's very lightweight (two pounds and a handful of ounces with the 6-cell battery), and it's plenty fast. I use Photoshop and lots of tabs in Firefox without a single problem. I can tell you right now the 1.6GHz Atom is noticeably faster than my 733MHz G4.

I don't even use my XPS M1330 at home anymore unless I need to remote into my work machine. My Aspire One works just that well.

If by "heavy duty stuff" you mean 3D image rendering or HD video editing, then yes - a netbook will probably show some decrease in performance. However, if you're like 90% of computer consumers and primarily use your machine to browse, chat, dump digital pictures and manipulate them, listen to music, and occasionally write in a word processor, any of the current netbook offerings will be more than adequate.

WRT the PBG4...it's definitely a smaller notebook than anything else Apple has ever offered. However, it weighs nearly twice as much as a netbook (4.6 pounds according to Apple) and is certainly slower.

It's pretty unlikely that Apple will release a competitive netbook. The Air, as many people have already pointed out, is far from the general definition of a netbook. If Apple releases a subcompact notebook, it will likely be completely overpriced for the market. It seems more realistic to look for an iPhone companion device from a third-party manufacturer.

[iomatic]

^That's nice for you, but it still doesn't escape the fact (do I sound like I'm repeating myself?) that it's still a low margin product. Companies live and die by margins: that can mean millions of dollars, sometimes hundreds of millions, for each percent lost or gained. MILLIONS.

[Xarthan]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

Also just because its a segment means apple will jump in. Remember a few years ago when PDAs were the rage and everyone was hoping expecting to see apple jump back in, especially given their experience with the newton.

Yes they came out with the iPhone and changed the PDA market.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Xarthan 

Yes they came out with the iPhone and changed the PDA market.

Yep indeed, 10 years later. How many people here want to wait 10 years for Apple to release a netbook?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Gamoe 

I suppose if you could turn off a core to preserve battery life, nothing. But, I imagine it could also potentially add cost to the device over that of a single-core CPU. Battery life and low cost trump power and features in the netbook category, as it see it.

I just quoted the power figures, showing its about a 10% change in system power consumption. Pricing is similar: $29 for a single core, less than $65 for the dual core, and $20 for the chipset. For a market that is stratified in ~$100 price jumps, a $30 CPU price difference doesn't seem unreasonable.

[MartiNZ]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Yep indeed, 10 years later. How many people here want to wait 10 years for Apple to release a netbook?

Perhaps the Air will become the Newton of Netbooks and die out leaving a gap for those 10 years .

Yes I know (you say) it's not a Netbook, that wink smiley is acting on many levels!

[iREZ]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

How much quality time have you spent with any of the current netbook offerings?

My Acer Aspire One is amazing. The keyboard is perfect, battery life is long (I can go for five to six hours with brightness down and wireless on), it's very lightweight (two pounds and a handful of ounces with the 6-cell battery), and it's plenty fast. I use Photoshop and lots of tabs in Firefox without a single problem. I can tell you right now the 1.6GHz Atom is noticeably faster than my 733MHz G4.

I don't even use my XPS M1330 at home anymore unless I need to remote into my work machine. My Aspire One works just that well.

If by "heavy duty stuff" you mean 3D image rendering or HD video editing, then yes - a netbook will probably show some decrease in performance. However, if you're like 90% of computer consumers and primarily use your machine to browse, chat, dump digital pictures and manipulate them, listen to music, and occasionally write in a word processor, any of the current netbook offerings will be more than adequate.

WRT the PBG4...it's definitely a smaller notebook than anything else Apple has ever offered. However, it weighs nearly twice as much as a netbook (4.6 pounds according to Apple) and is certainly slower.

It's pretty unlikely that Apple will release a competitive netbook. The Air, as many people have already pointed out, is far from the general definition of a netbook. If Apple releases a subcompact notebook, it will likely be completely overpriced for the market. It seems more realistic to look for an iPhone companion device from a third-party manufacturer.

i'm sorry but i can't see how a 1.6ghz acer is "noticeably faster" than a 1.5ghz g4 in terms of anything. 1.5ghz g4 could handle photoshop, firefox with tabs and everything. you're incorrectly comparing a 1.5g4 powerbook (what simon was referring to in his post) to a 733mhzg4 and then saying that your 733mhz can't keep up with a 1.6 Atom (duh) not to mention the powerbook housing a real gpu (nothing integrated). netbooks aren't anything but underpowered notebooks, that's why i referenced the 12" powerbook.

[shifuimam]

After using my ex's 1.25GHz 12" PBG4 for awhile (before he gave it to his dad), I can pretty safely say that its performance for pretty much any task isn't really better than a netbook.

The fact is, netbooks are plenty useful, are getting better with every revision, and provide the kind of portability and full functionality we used to only dream of. People already have begun using their iPhones in lieu of a real computer to access the Internet; netbooks just extend that functionality to other everyday tasks (digital picture manipulation, word processing, etc).

I don't know how much of a "low margin product" you can really say these netbooks are. So far, they've been extremely popular. If Apple came out with one, it would undoubtedly be sexier than anything else on the market - that alone could be enough to draw consumers away from offerings from HP, Acer, Asus, and the like.

[dimmer]

From the comments made by Apple, a "netbook" would be an enhanced iPod Touch/iPhone, rather than a dumbed down MacBook. The Mac OS X interface is designed for big, high res displays: what use would a Mac netbook be if the dock took up 1/2 of the screen?

The custom OS X framework for small computers is highly redefined for those applications. Not "one size fits all".

Netbook sales, btw, are second worst only to tablets: Apple is not missing out on either space.

[collinong]

For those that think OS X of any flavor is too slow on a 1.6Ghz Atom-based netbook, you should just do a test drive on a hacked version. The reality is that performance is just fine for regular web, email, office, etc. tasks. I haven't tried any media-intensive apps but those aren't really the focus of such a device anyhow. My basis for comparison is a 2Ghz, 2GB Core Duo MacBook compared to a 1.6Ghz, 2GB Atom-based MSI Wind and there really isn't much of a noticeable difference in performance for everyday apps.

Netbooks are the fastest growing segment of the portables market and, in certain market segments (like students and super casual users that just check web and email once a day then put it back in a drawer), is starting to eat into traditional notebook sales as well as becoming an additional machine. HP and Dell are joining the game because, if they don't, they risk ASUS, Acer, or MSI taking sales away from them. Apple will face the same choice soon. I'm as big an Apple fan as most here (stayed loyal at home through 7 years of working at Intel back when Apple was the hated enemy) and we should all stop rationalizing it and just admit that if they made a little MacBook nano in aluminum to the specs of the original poster, we'd all buy one.

[iDaver]

Originally Posted by Gee4orce 

Apple already offers a Netbook, it's called the iPod Touch

That's what I thought until I bought and tried to actually use one. Typing more than a few words on a touch is agonizing. The display is large enough only for mobile websites. It'll do in a pinch for net access if there's nothing else available, but a netbook it's not.

When first seeing several netbooks a few weeks ago at MicroCenter, I fell head over heels. Despite the fact that I've never owned a windoze computer and have used Macs since '89, I just ordered the new Samsung NC10. I can hardly wait for it to arrive!

It weighs less than any Apple portable including the MacBook Air. It has three USB ports, and a memory card reader unlike any Apple portable. It's smaller and more packable. It'll be much less ostentatious than the Air when I use it in public. It has a matte display, unlike any new Apple portable. And it costs less than $500! I thought about buying three, and giving two to friends, all for $300 less than Apple's "netbook," the Air.

If Apple ever makes a real netbook, it'll be guaranteed to cost over $1000. I doubt they'll bother, unless MacBook sales start to fall.

(These comments made by a dedicated Mac fan who's losing faith. I think it's the glass screens that have done it.)

[iomatic]

Right, I'm sure you'll have fun running Lightroom, some design applications, and the occasional games on your humbler netbook.

I'm only jabbing at you because you brought up the Air comparison.

[iDaver]

Originally Posted by iomatic 

Right, I'm sure you'll have fun running Lightroom, some design applications, and the occasional games on your humbler netbook.

I'm only jabbing at you because you brought up the Air comparison.

For the purposes of a netbook; surfing, email and other fairly light tasks, a 1.6Ghz Atom processor is more than enough...by a long shot. Frankly, I think it would run Photoshop and Illustrator just fine if I wanted to do that on a 10" screen.

I should have mentioned the Air is more powerful if you want to use it as your main machine. But I wasn't defending the Air.

[iomatic]

Originally Posted by iDaver 

For the purposes of a netbook; surfing, email and other fairly light tasks, a 1.6Ghz Atom processor is more than enough...by a long shot. Frankly, I think it would run Photoshop and Illustrator just fine if I wanted to do that on a 10" screen.

I should have mentioned the Air is more powerful if you want to use it as your main machine. But I wasn't defending the Air.

Meh, you could, but you wouldn't want to.

[43skidoo]

I sort of agree with the comment(s) about the air being the netbook, but that's not good enough, clearly. Hopefully, whatever they come out with, will be sub-$500. At least.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by 43skidoo 

I sort of agree with the comment(s) about the air being the netbook, but that's not good enough, clearly. Hopefully, whatever they come out with, will be sub-$500. At least.

As long as it has to be, it will either be a future version of the iPod touch/iPhone, or it won't come out.

[dimmer]

Netbooks are the fastest growing segment of the portables market

Netbooks make up less than 1% of the portable computer space: yes, they have climbed from 0.2% to 0.8% over the past year, and yes, statistically that is very fast growth: but it's still pissant. More iPhone/iPod touch units were sold in the last month than everything "Netbook", and the uptake level (people who'd buy another one) is borderline zero.

Apple isn't losing sleep over not being in this market.

[Hawkeye_a]

The new....MacBook Air......
-smaller form factor (smaller bezel, smaller trackpad), maybe 12.1" widescreen.
-1.5-2GHz, 80GB HDD, 2GB RAM. DVD drive(read only). USB, mini Display Port, Audio out.
-Wi-Fi/Wi-Max, BlueTooth, 3G (or internet access via iPhone 3G ?.... market the function to world travelers, executives, scientists and photo journalists in the field).
-Focus on net access anywhere, light, small, thin.
Price $999

The MacBook Air is akin to the Cube, in that it's highly desirable, but has limited market potential imo. it needs to evolve into a product that presents a solution rather than just selling bragging rights imo. this would be a good market segment to target imo.

Cheers

[Simon]

So after Apple marketing has explained relentlessly to the whole world how the MBA does not need an optical and how they can't make it any cheaper, they should now all of a sudden add an DVD drive and lower the price to $1k? No way. Of all the things that just might happen, that surely never will.

The solution you're looking for (inexpensive, full-featured) is called MacBook. It's being sold right now. For $1k.

[Hawkeye_a]

They also told us how great FireWire is.

[iDaver]

In my mind the definition of a netbook is "small screen and no optical drive."

[iomatic]

I'll say it one more time, then I'll leave you all (I promise) to your never-ending spin cycle; you kiddies who have never had to run or work in a business need to understand why it won't happen:

LOW MARGIN

okthxby

[fhoubi]

iDaver, have you got your NC10 yet? Your opinion? Your post did me buy 2 of them (as presents), but I am using one now for 5 days and I think I keep/need one for myself.

The keyboard is great (93% regular size), also the screen, I think even better than my 2 years old Intel iMac. Advantages over the Air: stereo (although crappy) speakers, 2 USB more, mic-in (who need this?), a standard VGA out connector and a SD card reader. I like how the connectors are marked at the top.

Note I use Macs for the last 10 years at home, at my work I am forced to use a 1 year old Lenovo R61 (T7500 Core2Duo 2.2GHz). A self-written little recursive program to solve Peg/Sollitaire (7 milion iterations btw) is only 2x slower on the NC10 compared to the Lenovo compiled under VS2008 in C++, 3x when compiled/written in C# . Not bad at all!

Battery life is stunning, working wireless all the time and screen a little dimmed I get 6..7 hours easily. Hilarious: connected to a 20" 203B Samsung display at work the Lenovo does not give a bright, sharp screen, the NC10 however does.

[Scottological]

A few quick points...

Low margin isn't necessarily a deal killer. Many companies offer "entry-level" products - dumbed down versions of higher-end stuff - just to get legacy customers. That is, get addicted to the Mac OS and you'll want to upgrade to something more expensive (with greater margins) in the near future. In my view, this is why people stick with Windows; the learning curve of switching OS's is just too much for the casual user. Get them while they're young and poor and they may be a customer for life.

However, low margin comes at the expense of the brand. BMW could make a car that competes with the Honda Civic, but they have an exclusive, luxury brand to protect and so don't. In my view, Apple used to be in this category - expensive, pretty things - but are slowly edging down market with their phone and MP3 categories.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Scottological 

However, low margin comes at the expense of the brand. BMW could make a car that competes with the Honda Civic, but they have an exclusive, luxury brand to protect and so don't. In my view, Apple used to be in this category - expensive, pretty things - but are slowly edging down market with their phone and MP3 categories.

Those are completely different markets from the computer industry, and in both of those markets, Apple's offerings are placed *well* above the bottom-feeders' crapped-down budget products.

[Simon]

To Apple low margins are a deal killer. Even the iPod shuffle drives a very decent margin.

Apple does not want to water down its brand by undercutting what they consider "a decent computer". It appears things like a full-sized KB or a 1280x720 screen appear to elements of that limit.

Steve has gone on record saying that they simply don't know how to make a $500 Mac that doesn't suck. So if somebody here disagrees with that notion, I suggest they send in their $500 GreatMac ASAP to [email protected].

[Hawkeye_a]

I think netbooks are the new tablet PCs. It's a 'phase'/'fad'.

MacBook Airs, while having major 'cool points' fit the above category imo. sorta like the G4 Cube. Cool, but not a large enough niche to sustain it's development as a product category.

The question for Apple is..... does it need(marketable opportunity capable of turning profit) a product category between an iPhone and a MacBook, without cannibalizing either. My opinion. No.