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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Obama Incapable of Acknowledging Hypocrisy

Obama Incapable of Acknowledging Hypocrisy (Page 2)
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Wiskedjak
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May 17, 2012, 09:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
Well, it would start with all the Big Gov sycophants weaning themselves off the government ...
So, like, 90% of the population? How exactly do you propose weaning 90% of the population off the government?
     
Shaddim
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May 17, 2012, 10:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
You say this as though government doesn't get bigger under conservatives as well ...
Wouldn't know, it's been too long since we've had one.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Chongo
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May 17, 2012, 11:31 PM
 
Ooopsy, some one has some splainin' to do. From a promotional booklet produced in 1991 by Barack Obama's then-literary agency, Acton & Dystel. Lets see if this makes it any further than Drudge.

45/47
     
Wiskedjak
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May 17, 2012, 11:47 PM
 
It's quite strange that he would allow a break in the conspiracy to get him into the White House that predates his birth.
     
lpkmckenna
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May 18, 2012, 12:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Ooopsy, some one has some splainin' to do. From a promotional booklet produced in 1991 by Barack Obama's then-literary agency, Acton & Dystel. Lets see if this makes it any further than Drudge.

You can't be serious. Only morons link to breitbart.
     
Big Mac  (op)
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May 18, 2012, 01:47 AM
 
That's right, shoot the messenger. In Breitbart's case you guys already literally did just that.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 01:59 AM
 
Big Mac: do you think Obama was born in this country?
     
Big Mac  (op)
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May 18, 2012, 02:10 AM
 
I wish he had been born in Greece or France, countries much more in line with his true political orientation.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 03:04 AM
 
So is that a yes?
     
Chongo
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May 18, 2012, 07:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
You can't be serious. Only morons link to breitbart.
No worse than; MSNBC, Move On, HuffPo, Media Matters, or any other Soros funded site.

BTW, Beitbart was not a birther.
45/47
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 07:21 AM
 
What is it with some conservatives and their weird Soros conspiracies?
     
BadKosh
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May 18, 2012, 07:44 AM
 
So, we are to believe that Miriam Goderich is incompetent, and big headed Owe-bama didn't catch the errors when he saw the prototype BEFORE going to press? LOL! With Owe-bamas track record as a liar already, this BS just doesn't hold water.
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 07:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
So, we are to believe that Miriam Goderich is incompetent, and big headed Owe-bama didn't catch the errors when he saw the prototype BEFORE going to press? LOL! With Owe-bamas track record as a liar already, this BS just doesn't hold water.
Do you believe Obama was born in this country?
     
BadKosh
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May 18, 2012, 07:51 AM
 
Do you?

I think I have more issues with the lies that this lowly editor stated. The general practice is to type up some bio material, send it to the subjects for their approval and corrections, and when they say its OK, you publish it. So she got it wrong, Barry didn't offer any corrections and the result is this pamphlet plugging his book, with incorrect info. Sorry, don't buy it. Hell we don't even know what classes he took in college. So much for transparency.
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 07:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Do you?
Yes.
     
andi*pandi
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May 18, 2012, 08:48 AM
 
I believe this is where someone mentions photoshop, and something about pixels.
     
Wiskedjak
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May 18, 2012, 09:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I believe this is where someone mentions photoshop, and something about pixels.
It looks as though the story is legit.
Originally Posted by Miriam Goderich
"This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me--an agency assistant at the time," Goderich wrote in an emailed statement to Yahoo News. "There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more."
'Born in Kenya': Obama's Literary Agent Misidentified His Birthplace in 1991 - ABC News
*This* is where someone mentions the Obama camp exerting influence over Miriam Goderich to say it was an error.
     
OAW
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May 18, 2012, 12:06 PM
 
^^^^

Exactly. This foolishness has gotten to the point where it's become pathological.

OAW
     
The Final Dakar
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May 18, 2012, 12:09 PM
 
Playing devil's advocate, wouldn't Obama have proofed it before they used it?
     
BadKosh
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May 18, 2012, 12:19 PM
 
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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May 18, 2012, 01:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
So, like, 90% of the population? How exactly do you propose weaning 90% of the population off the government?
Only in your wildest Big Govt fantasies are 90% of people addicted to government services that in any way require endless deficit spending.

An aside- why is it now some people constantly make up these impossibly large numbers like 90% to try and bolster their extreme minority views? It's gotten so ridiculous, yet you still think it's viable to try and say "99% of everyone agrees with my position! What say you, 1%r to my super-dooper made-up majority?!" It's sort of the ultimate appeal to authority fallacy, where the 'authority' isn't just falsely cited, but made up in the first place.

As for Obama being Kenyan born- I don't see the big conspiracy. I'm sure for a long time it was cool for him to -at the very least- not correct people that he was born in Kenya. It probably lent him some sort of 'exotic' credibility among whatever circles he was traveling in than his more boring real origins did. He or anyone else that got his birthplace wrong probably never figured it would matter a whole hill of beans as they had no idea he'd one day be president.
     
OAW
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May 18, 2012, 01:30 PM
 
So in addition to Hawaiian government and hospital officials ... we now have literary agents involved in a "conspiracy" spanning 5 decades? Wooowwwwwww!!!!! Common sense really isn't all that common it would seem.

Jeez even Breitbart did not subscribe to this "birther" foolishness ... as the disclaimer to this article on the site makes quite clear. Of course, even though he himself didn't believe the BS he certainly wasn't above using it to stir up the pot among those who were so inclined as long as it suited his political objectives. And that, my friends, speaks volumes on so many levels.

OAW
     
andi*pandi
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May 18, 2012, 02:15 PM
 
Arizona must be this close to seceding from the Union, when Jan Brewer is their voice of reason:

Arizona Secretary Of State Says It’s ‘Possible’ Obama Won’t Be On Ballot | TPMMuckraker
     
The Final Dakar
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May 18, 2012, 02:23 PM
 
I don't understand you, Arizona.

Also, "I'm not a birther, but I play one on TV."
     
subego
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May 18, 2012, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Arizona must be this close to seceding from the Union, when Jan Brewer is their voice of reason:

Arizona Secretary Of State Says It’s ‘Possible’ Obama Won’t Be On Ballot | TPMMuckraker
You're totally sensationalizing it. The article says Sherriff Joe is Arizona's voice of reason.
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 03:04 PM
 
I'd like to see the birth requirement rule dropped in my lifetime actually, it serves no purpose that I can pinpoint in today's world.
     
Athens
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May 18, 2012, 03:13 PM
 
I like this

In the weeks since then, Bennett said, Hawaii officials have forced him to provide proof that he is who he says he is. They asked him to send them copies of the Arizona laws that prove the secretary of state really is the person in charge of handling the ballots. Admittedly, Bennett said they told him they were “tired of all the requests.” But he is continuing anyway.
Like Besson I think its a stupid rule, A citizen of 30 + years should be the benchmark. But whatever, not my country. I just think its retarded this is still a subject, is he born American or not.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 03:17 PM
 
I'd be okay with permanent residents being eligible too.

In this age of information you don't need the experience of living in the country to absorb the history and politics of the country, and in this day and age there is no way a rogue president that is really a super agent spy would ever be elected either.

Except for Obama, of course.
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 03:22 PM
 
So BadKosh, do you think Obama was born in this country?
     
Chongo
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May 18, 2012, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What is it with some conservatives and their weird Soros conspiracies?
What is it with some liberals and their weird Koch brothers conspiracies?
45/47
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
What is it with some liberals and their weird Koch brothers conspiracies?

I haven't really heard any, but I hear many conservatives mumbling semi-incoherent stuff about Soros regularly.
     
Snow-i
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May 18, 2012, 06:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
So, like, 90% of the population? How exactly do you propose weaning 90% of the population off the government?
Cold Turkey. The withdrawal period will suck for a lot, but its for the best in the long run. Just like a crack addiction.
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Cold Turkey. The withdrawal period will suck for a lot, but its for the best in the long run. Just like a crack addiction.
Not with health care costs as they are now, this would be a disaster of epic proportions. It would be good business for funeral homes, but horrible for the economy, for crime rates, and it would put many hospitals out of business.
     
Wiskedjak
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May 18, 2012, 08:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
Only in your wildest Big Govt fantasies are 90% of people addicted to government services that in any way require endless deficit spending.

An aside- why is it now some people constantly make up these impossibly large numbers like 90% to try and bolster their extreme minority views? It's gotten so ridiculous, yet you still think it's viable to try and say "99% of everyone agrees with my position! What say you, 1%r to my super-dooper made-up majority?!" It's sort of the ultimate appeal to authority fallacy, where the 'authority' isn't just falsely cited, but made up in the first place.
Fine. What ratio of the population do *you* think is hooked on Big Government? If less than 50%, how do you explain the inability of Small Government fantasizers to achieve their Small Government dreams?

But, to give you less opportunity to dodge my earlier question, I'll reword:
How exactly do you propose weaning enough of the population off the government that you can achieve a Small Government reality?
     
Wiskedjak
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May 18, 2012, 08:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Cold Turkey. The withdrawal period will suck for a lot, but its for the best in the long run. Just like a crack addiction.
"Cold turkey" is a symptom, not a plan. How would you propose ever getting there, when no potential leader in either the Conservative or Liberal camps would ever even really consider it (as evidenced by CRASH's assertion that none of us has "seen a government that controls itself in any of our lifetimes").
     
besson3c
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May 18, 2012, 08:33 PM
 
Conservatives that are into this whole "small" vs. "big" government thing are really barking up the wrong tree.

It's not about small vs. big, it's about value vs. waste. If you are really interested in hacking away at the deficit, it would be madness to remove or disable programs that are actually benefiting our economy and allowing us to reduce our deficit in the interest of "smallness".

The problem is, the whole debate is about stupid emotional ideological platitudes and not really about assessing value. If the Republicans were interested in improving value, they'd have a health care plan ready to place the one they want to take down.
     
hyteckit
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May 19, 2012, 02:00 AM
 
Isn't the biggest government service our national defense, which conservative Republicans love to expand.

Conservatives love big government, as long as it's not about helping the poor, the needy, and the weak.
Conservatives love big government If it is for national defense, for big corporation, for big oil, for abstinence education, against gay marriages, against women's choice, against marijuana, against pornagraphy, against oral or anal sex.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
besson3c
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May 19, 2012, 02:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Isn't the biggest government service our national defense, which conservative Republicans love to expand.

In terms of overall costs it's Medicare/Medicaid, by a great margin.
     
OAW
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May 19, 2012, 02:14 AM
 
^^^^

Indeed.

OAW
     
hyteckit
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May 19, 2012, 02:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
In terms of overall costs it's Medicare/Medicaid, by a great margin.
Thought we were talking about government 'services' and not 'entitlements'.

I thought government services are ... well services provided by government.

You know, stuff like national defense, border patrol, TSA, FEMA, DEA, and so forth. All those lovely government services.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
besson3c
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May 19, 2012, 02:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Thought we were talking about government 'services' and not 'entitlements'.

I thought government services are ... well services provided by government.

You know, stuff like national defense, border patrol, TSA, FEMA, DEA, and so forth. All those lovely government services.

Fair enough.

Regarding your second to last post, I don't think Conservatives even look for these kind of inconsistencies, I think they just know what their little narrow ideological wheelhouse is, and defend it no matter what. These days they seem to be more about emotions and faith rather than practicality.

The fact that it was even suggested that we should just disband these services and entitlements cold turkey without mentioning or addressing the specific consequences and wanting to have a discussion about value is indicative of that. After all, any person with a sense of practicality knows that it doesn't make any sense to cut things that help drive the deficit down in a measured way.

I'm not necessarily against the premise of cutting Medicare/Medicaid, but not until we have succeeded at getting these costs under control so that people can begin to be able to afford to pay for these costs out of their pocket (via an insurance policy or with their personal savings). As long as the vast majority of people eligible for Medicare/Medicaid cannot even begin to think about being able to afford their care (and since a discussion of the poor working class on Medicare is probably a non-starter with many conservatives, we could just confine this to senior citizens), the economic strain of people hitting bankruptcy or at the very least not being able to spend and contribute to the economy needs to be accounted for in a practical and non-ideological manner, but many conservatives don't do the whole practical manner thing all that well.
     
Wiskedjak
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May 19, 2012, 07:58 AM
 
I'd just like to see some real proposals around HOW these Small Government dreamers think it could be accomplished, especially when it's not been done before even by Conservatives, rather than the constant whining about Big Government.

@ CRASH and Snow-I
Your biggest challenge isn't going to be convincing liberals. Your biggest challenge is going to be convincing a conservative President to back Small Government proposals that could likely lose them votes. How do you plan to do THAT?
     
andi*pandi
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May 19, 2012, 10:28 AM
 
Ron Paul!
     
Chongo
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May 19, 2012, 11:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Isn't the biggest government service our national defense, which conservative Republicans love to expand.
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
In terms of overall costs it's Medicare/Medicaid, by a great margin.
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
^^^^

Indeed.

OAW
Hmm.
45/47
     
Wiskedjak
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May 19, 2012, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Hmm.
So, what you're saying is that Defence entitlements are only 4% lower than Medical entitlements?
     
OAW
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May 19, 2012, 01:31 PM
 
^^^

Yeah I was wondering the same thing. But then again, some of our good friends on the right can have such knee-jerk reactions that they can't take "Yes" for an answer. The fact of the matter is that Entitlement Spending is far and away the lion's share of the federal budget. Where's Big Mac when you need him?

OAW
     
Uncle Skeleton
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May 19, 2012, 02:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
So, what you're saying is that Defence entitlements are only 4% lower than Medical entitlements?
4 percentage points in this case would be 17% lower
     
Wiskedjak
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May 19, 2012, 03:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
4 percentage points in this case would be 17% lower
potAtoe, potatoe
     
hyteckit
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May 19, 2012, 11:20 PM
 
National defense paying for $800 toilets and $17,000 drip pans are going to keep us safe from those terrorist.

Talk about wasteful spending. Literally spending crazy amount on something to collect waste.

Yet Republicans in congress want to keep increasing national defense spending.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/us...mark.html?_r=1
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Chongo
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May 20, 2012, 06:25 PM
 
I'm waiting to see who Obama appoints to the 15 member panel to deal with the $600 billion cut in Medicare used to pay for PPACA. Talk about pushing Grandma over the cliff.
45/47
     
 
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