[PHoynak]

I may want to get a Palm or Pocket PC to use for work. Which would be better? I have a Mac and a Pc at home. I am trying to spend less than $200 for the thing. I know nothing about the pocket PC's. Isn't Palm dropping their OS X support?

[Dimitri]

I believe Palm is dropping support in the future but right now there are 3rd party programs that will make either one work, so you should be able to use either. As of right now, a Palm brand handheld will still work out of box for synching with Palm Desktop. Other handhelds require 3rd party software to synch to a Mac, regardless if it's iSync, Entourage or Palm Desktop.

[art_director]

palm had announced they were dropping mac support but it appears they have rescinded that plan. regardless, as another poster stated, palm devices still sync out of the box with a mac.

i've used both platforms and prefer the pocket pc to the palm. it's more of a computer that you carry with you. palm are not the same and should not be compared aside from the pda functionality.

to sync a ppc and a mac you need either pocketmac ( www.pocketmac.net ) or the missing sync. i have not used missing sync but can vouch for the new pocketmac � it's great! there's a review of pocketmac in the new macworld if you're interested.

for ppcs i prefer the hp line. not cheap but they're great. i use the h5555.

good luck and post here if you have more questions.

[Landos Mustache]

A Palm would be much better if using it with a Mac. When Palm drops Mac support Apple will just pick it up with iSync.

Have a look at the new Palm Zire 72, it is great.

[art_director]

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
A Palm would be much better if using it with a Mac. When Palm drops Mac support Apple will just pick it up with iSync.

Have a look at the new Palm Zire 72, it is great.

as i said, palm has stated they will continue mac support.

still, look at the ppc devices on the market. they make palms look bad.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally posted by art_director:
as i said, palm has stated they will continue mac support.

still, look at the ppc devices on the market. they make palms look bad.

How so?

[wuzup101]

The new dell axium seems to be pretty nice. I also like the look/fit finish of the palm t3 titanium (I believe that's the name). For $314 you can get an Axium X30 w/ 64mb ram and 64mb rom the new intel 624mhz processor wireless 802.11b and bluetooth... I know it's a dell... but damn it seems perfect to sync w/ a mac (bluetooth and 802.11b).

[Thorin]

"Palm" do not exist as a company anymore. There are now two companies.

PalmSource=PalmOS
PalmOne=hardware

PalmSource said they will not be supporting the mac anymore. Shortly afterwards PalmOne said that they were still committed to supporting the mac with their devices.

[art_director]

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
How so?

i was a palm user for four years. i loved the os and the devices i owned. then i used a buddy's pocket pc and was blown away. i found it to be more like a computer than a palm. i preferred the gui to a palm. i ALWAYS hated the palm grafitti � we already have a language, thankyouverymuch, why should we learn a new one to use the device?

i'm now on my second ppc, an hp h5555. my first was a siemens sx56 ppc phone. (aka xda 1, t-mo ppc phone, himilaya, etc.) the siemens is a nifty little device but it has its quirks. the h5555 is by far the best mobile device i've owned.

i should add that i'm also a symbian owner, the sony ericsson p900 to be exact. that's a great unit but for web browsing, e-mail, data management, wifi, etc. the h5555 is tops in my book.

[Maflynn]

I have to chime here and put a vote in on palm.
I was a PPC owner for years. Both platforms have advantages that the others don't but I think the Palm is superior in a number of ways.

For me, the simplicty of the design caused me to switch from a PPC.
The desktop metaphor doesn't work in a PPC: It takes a number of taps to start an application or do some sort of action. The palm, I typically just needed one tap. (I know there a utilities to make the PPC more palm like in this way)

Better document compatability: Documents to Go blows pocket word/excel out of the water. In a sense its sad Microsoft's own product is less compatible the Docs-To-Go. I purchased a PPC just for the excel and it could not handle my spreadsheets.

Syncing (from a PC) Active sync was horrendous I had a heck of a time to make it work and keep it working. Others seem to have similar problems.


My needs are simple and the palm T3 fit those needs, it allows me to work the way I like to. At times the PPC made me conform to the way it thought I needed to work.

Mike

[art_director]

what ppc did you use?

multiple taps to open documents???? i need just one click to open any app unless i need to navigate to it first � that's rare.

document compatability??? huh??? i've never had any issue with the apps you list. especially excel � i keep heaps o' data in excel spreadsheets and use 'em daily but have never had problems.

can't speak to active sync, i'm a mac guy. at first pocketmac was lacking but the newest version appears to work better on my mac than active sync does on my buddy's pc. that's according to him.

i'm all for people using what best suits their needs. if palm floats your boat then have at it.

[veryniceguy2002]

Originally posted by PHoynak:
I may want to get a Palm or Pocket PC to use for work. Which would be better? I have a Mac and a Pc at home. I am trying to spend less than $200 for the thing. I know nothing about the pocket PC's. Isn't Palm dropping their OS X support?

What would you use your PDA for?

My advice to other people is, go to your nearest store where they have both Palm and PocketPC available, and try on both. You really need to get a feel for both, especially on had written recognisation.

If you don't get used to Palm's graffiti, then get PocketPC (I have to say PocketPC recogisation is better, even I'm a Palm user). Graffiti 2 on Tungsten has gone much better now, compare to what they had 203 years ago.

I heard the DataViz' Word and Excel application on Palm do a better job on reading and writing Word and Excel documents than M$ did on Pocket Word / Excel on PocketPC.

PalmOne will continue have OS X support, so don't worry about that.

[mbryda]

Depends what you want your PDA to do. Me, I use it as an addressbook and a scheduling device. I use a Tungsten T. Love it. Tried the various PPC devices and the Windows metaphor just sucks on a handheld.

Was at training the other week and played with PPC2003 and it is equally as bad. The UI is just a mess and way too complicated for something you need to glance at to look up a contact, run a program, etc. No thanks.

But, if you want a computer in your hand, then the PPC is the way to go. Although it's good at just about nothing it does. Word on the PPC appeared quirky. Excel looked OK, and why would you want Powerpoint? And using IE on any platform is pointless.

[art_director]

Originally posted by mbryda:
Depends what you want your PDA to do. Me, I use it as an addressbook and a scheduling device. I use a Tungsten T. Love it. Tried the various PPC devices and the Windows metaphor just sucks on a handheld.

Was at training the other week and played with PPC2003 and it is equally as bad. The UI is just a mess and way too complicated for something you need to glance at to look up a contact, run a program, etc. No thanks.

But, if you want a computer in your hand, then the PPC is the way to go. Although it's good at just about nothing it does. Word on the PPC appeared quirky. Excel looked OK, and why would you want Powerpoint? And using IE on any platform is pointless.

what exactly do you consider to be complicated about clicking "start" then "contacts"?

same with running an application, it's as easy as the palm if not more so given that you can put app icons on the desktop.

how do you feel word is "quirky"?

some users employ powerpoint via their ppcs and bluetooth to give presentations. that's a wise use.

bottom line: what will you use your handheld device for? if you just want an organizer the palm is your best bet. if you want more out of the device then ppc may be a better option.

[art_director]

i should add that the ppc makes for a smart war chalking unit, hehe...

[PHoynak]

The main use for the device would be to store all my work and personal contacts. I saw that the PPC has 802.11b available for it. Does PPC have that option? The more I look the more I cannot make up my mind. I may need to edit Excel spreadsheets for work also.

[art_director]

Originally posted by PHoynak:
The main use for the device would be to store all my work and personal contacts. I saw that the PPC has 802.11b available for it. Does PPC have that option? The more I look the more I cannot make up my mind. I may need to edit Excel spreadsheets for work also.

yep, there are a number of ppc devices that have 802.11b. i've found that my h5555 actually gets better reception than my al powerbook. much better. in fact, i can go approximately 180 feet from my base station and get a strong signal. that's nice.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally posted by art_director:
i was a palm user for four years. i loved the os and the devices i owned. then i used a buddy's pocket pc and was blown away.

Why? What is so much better about it?

[Maflynn]

Originally posted by art_director:
what ppc did you use?

Various iPaq models (36xx 38xx).

multiple taps to open documents???? i need just one click to open any app unless i need to navigate to it first � that's rare.

I'm going from memory here, I haven't used an iPaq in a while, but start/programs/"program" some go even further like the solitare game. I think that qualifies for multiple taps. Not everything required multiple taps

document compatability??? huh??? i've never had any issue with the apps you list. especially excel � i keep heaps o' data in excel spreadsheets and use 'em daily but have never had problems.

I wouldn't say I had problems per se, but issues with my spreadsheets losing formatting and formulas. What I see in excel vs what I see in pocket excel are two different things. there are less formulas and less functionality in PE. I'm disapointed in that MS has not updated pocket word/excel in years. The power that the current crop of PPCs have certainly can handle a bigger more robust version but MS seems to intent on adding bells and whistles instead of creating better apps.

can't speak to active sync, i'm a mac guy. at first pocketmac was lacking but the newest version appears to work better on my mac than active sync does on my buddy's pc. that's according to him.

myself and another buddy of mine both had a lot of trouble getting active sync to work on our PCs. deleting/recreating the partnerships having to go into the registry and mucking with that and uninstalling/installing active sync. I eventually got it to work but it was a pain. I realize saying this in mac forum is comparing apples and organges (pun intended) but a few people use both platforms. I have a pc for work and the mac is my main machine. Believe me, I'd rather use the mac 100% time.

i'm all for people using what best suits their needs. if palm floats your boat then have at it.

I'm with you on this. The PPC does have advantages over the palm, better battery life (if your comparing the T3), I hear that multimedia stuff is better but I never used it on either platform so I'm can't confirm this first hand. Its more flexible and the file system is superior. Palm OS is basically a database so a file system doesn't really fit.

Mike

[Maneki Neko]

For what it's worth, I have never been able to reliably sync a pocket PC with my mac. I have tried Missing Sync AND PocketMac and haven't had good luck with either.

The Palm (I have a Tungsten T) still seems to be (in my opinion) exactly what I need, an organizer, that holds all the data I need away from a computer.

The Pocket PC (Dell Axim, in this case) is a much better handheld computer than my Palm, but still falls short in the organizer department. I can play snazzier games and browse the web on it, but I still find myself going back to the Tungsten.

[art_director]

Originally posted by Maneki Neko:
For what it's worth, I have never been able to reliably sync a pocket PC with my mac. I have tried Missing Sync AND PocketMac and haven't had good luck with either.

The Palm (I have a Tungsten T) still seems to be (in my opinion) exactly what I need, an organizer, that holds all the data I need away from a computer.

The Pocket PC (Dell Axim, in this case) is a much better handheld computer than my Palm, but still falls short in the organizer department. I can play snazzier games and browse the web on it, but I still find myself going back to the Tungsten.

have you tried the new pocketmac? it makes the older versions look bad.

[art_director]

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
Why? What is so much better about it?

power
gui
fit and finish (both my siemens sx56 and hp h5555)
quality of apps
screen
also, for me, it's a tactile preference � palms feel slim, light and cheaply constructed.
palm os, again to me, is clunky and more akin to a calculator than a handheld computer.

[Casper Crane]

wow, i am amazed by the amount of loyalty to Pocket PC found in a Mac forum.

there is definitely more flexibility in the file system on the Pocket PC.

the Palm OS is more user friendsly, especially for a Mac user, but they are both good.

the discussion is sort of pointless, because unless you are looking at vertical markets, the PDA will be dead in a couple of years.

the smartphone is exploding! why carry 2 devices? or 3? or 4?

i've actually taken 3 devices to the car. if the Treo 600 had a hi-res screen, bluetooth, AND a hard drive the size of an iPod, it would be unstoppable.

i am sure, however, there are those of you who will argue against convergence.

[Maneki Neko]

Originally posted by art_director:
have you tried the new pocketmac? it makes the older versions look bad.

I was using version 3.something. This was earlier this year.

[Macola]

Originally posted by Casper Crane:

i am sure, however, there are those of you who will argue against convergence.

Yes. Have you ever tried carrying a Treo (or Smartphone) on your hip? There's just too much of a compromise at this point, and you end up with something that has neither the small size of a good cell phone, nor the functionality of a good PDA.

[Maflynn]

Originally posted by Casper Crane:
i've actually taken 3 devices to the car. if the Treo 600 had a hi-res screen, bluetooth, AND a hard drive the size of an iPod, it would be unstoppable.

i am sure, however, there are those of you who will argue against convergence.

I'm also one of those that would not want one of those all in one units.
I chose the T3 because of its size and weight, add a hard drive or a larger screen and it would be unwieldy and heavy. Clearly the PDA market is under going change but that does not mean that standalone pda's will disappear.

Mike

[art_director]

imo there will be a market who likes the smartphone devices. in fact i bought a p900 thinking hey, i can get all the pda biz on a smaller device than my sx56. now, seven months after buying that device for $750 i'm back with a ppc (in addition to my p900). there is no comparison for a heavy user like myself. they're both great and they both have their place. in my world they're both needed.


btw, my first handheld was a handspring visor deluxe. i loved it. then i gave it away. from there i bought palms. then i gave them away. i have yet to give away a ppc. they're still relevant in my world.

[art_director]

Originally posted by Casper Crane:
wow, i am amazed by the amount of loyalty to Pocket PC found in a Mac forum.

there is definitely more flexibility in the file system on the Pocket PC.

the Palm OS is more user friendsly, especially for a Mac user, but they are both good.

the discussion is sort of pointless, because unless you are looking at vertical markets, the PDA will be dead in a couple of years.

the smartphone is exploding! why carry 2 devices? or 3? or 4?

i've actually taken 3 devices to the car. if the Treo 600 had a hi-res screen, bluetooth, AND a hard drive the size of an iPod, it would be unstoppable.

i am sure, however, there are those of you who will argue against convergence.

i just don't get the treo lovers. sure, it's nifty but not my cup o' tea. you dig?

[art_director]

Originally posted by Macola:
Yes. Have you ever tried carrying a Treo (or Smartphone) on your hip? There's just too much of a compromise at this point, and you end up with something that has neither the small size of a good cell phone, nor the functionality of a good PDA.

i LOVE my siemens sx56. it's big but it's oh so powerful. in fact, i'd buy another one in a heartbeat if my wife weren't so sick of my gagetry...

[art_director]

since we're on the subject of handhelds and smartphones...


http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/sil...ws/9098922.htm

[Macola]

Originally posted by art_director:
since we're on the subject of handhelds and smartphones...


http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/sil...ws/9098922.htm

I always thought Symbian was an unfortunate choice for a name--brings to mind a certain mechanical device

[art_director]

Originally posted by Macola:
I always thought Symbian was an unfortunate choice for a name--brings to mind a certain mechanical device

you can always count on a person from the home city of the onion to have a good sense of humor.

viva la madtown!

[mbryda]

Originally posted by art_director:
what exactly do you consider to be complicated about clicking "start" then "contacts"?

Because it's easier to hit the contact button on my Tungsten. And the fact that when I quit applications they go away, unlike the PPC where they stay running and eat up RAM/CPU cycles.

same with running an application, it's as easy as the palm if not more so given that you can put app icons on the desktop.

So? Palms have had that simplicity for years. IMHO the desktop metaphor is extremely poor for a mobile device.

how do you feel word is "quirky"?

Well, I transferred a simple document (wordpad displayed it fine) and it was all out of whack on pocket word. Scrolling glitches and other artifacts were present on the screen. Not to mention the formatting translated HORRIBLY.

bottom line: what will you use your handheld device for? if you just want an organizer the palm is your best bet. if you want more out of the device then ppc may be a better option.

Exactly - PPC is for those that want a poor computer in their hands. If you want a great organizer that can do some computer-like things, the Palm is the best bet.

But, I wouldn't ever use a PPC with a Mac - it's like the baztard stepchild. Want to install apps? While you can install the app (for the most part), what about support? Few will support that method of installation. Or apps that sync with a desktop? Forget about that for the Mac too....

[art_director]

Originally posted by mbryda:
But, I wouldn't ever use a PPC with a Mac - it's like the baztard stepchild. Want to install apps? While you can install the app (for the most part), what about support? Few will support that method of installation. Or apps that sync with a desktop? Forget about that for the Mac too.... [/B]

sounds like we agree to disagree. you clearly hate the ppc. i believe the palm is a calulator with an address book.

btw, EVERY app i've ever wanted on my ppcs i've been able to install via a cab file. every one. there have been a few hassles but i have a tolerance for that. in fact, i like the challenge. then again, i enjoyed calculus in college.

as for support, well, i've never had a need.

i have no apps, aside from entourage, that i've wanted to sync with a desktop.

the desktop reference is relevant only it's called the "today screen" on a ppc.

sorry, try as you might, i still dislike the palm for my uses and needs.

[mbryda]

Originally posted by art_director:
sounds like we agree to disagree. you clearly hate the ppc. i believe the palm is a calulator with an address book.

That's fine, but the Palm is much more than that. We have multimedia (can play MP3's and such on my Tungsten) and useful apps that sync back to the computer.

btw, EVERY app i've ever wanted on my ppcs i've been able to install via a cab file. every one. there have been a few hassles but i have a tolerance for that. in fact, i like the challenge. then again, i enjoyed calculus in college.

i have no apps, aside from entourage, that i've wanted to sync with a desktop.

I do - this great app called PocketQuicken. Keeps my personal finances on my Palm. Works great and allows me to enter my data on the road (when it happens) rather than deal with entering it in my Mac when I get back. While they make PocketMoney and PocketQuicken for the PPC, I doubt you'll ever see such a beast for the Mac running PPC. Same goes with many other apps that sync with data on the desktop...

There are other apps that work like that on the Palm side that you'll probably never see work on PPC with a Mac.

the desktop reference is relevant only it's called the "today screen" on a ppc.

I shouldn't have to navigate a "Start Menu" on a handheld device to access my applications/files. Heck, there should be no start menu on a handheld. It should all be on the desktop for quick and easy access.

sorry, try as you might, i still dislike the palm for my uses and needs.

That's fine - different strokes for different folks. I've tried them all - started with a NEC MobilePro with keyboard back in CE 1.1 days, tried the LG phenom, Philips Nino, a couple iPaqs, a Handspring Visor and now the Tungsten T. The Palm is what I feel fills my needs for a PDA. I don't need/want a computer in my hand - that's what a laptop is for.

[Randman]

From Macminute:

palmOne today announced a resource center for Mac users who want to get the most out of their palmOne handhelds and smartphones. The new Web pages highlight multimedia applications, wireless technology, and tips & tricks. The Mac resource center, featuring "Web Resources" and "Support Resources" sections on its home page, also offers specific help under the categories "Photo Albums & iPhoto," "Syncing w/ iSync," "Go Wireless" and "Software."

[Casper Crane]

you won't be finding a Mac resource center on the Windows Mobile website.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/sitemap.mspx

and i think that says a lot.

[art_director]

mbryda:

i'm happy you have what you need.

as i stated, the palm is near useless to me. not to be debated, it's a fact. had 'em, used 'em, found something better for my needs. i was simply trying to tell my side not participate in a flame war.

re: the mac resource center --

that's great for newbies and folk who need help. in fact it's great. problem is i don't fall into that category. for people like me there's no value in that. just thought this side of the story should be told.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally posted by Thorin:

PalmSource said they will not be supporting the mac anymore. Shortly afterwards PalmOne said that they were still committed to supporting the mac with their devices.

Where? when?

[art_director]

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
Where? when?

they claimed they were our until they got a backlash from apple and consumers. then they changed their story.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally posted by art_director:
they claimed they were our until they got a backlash from apple and consumers. then they changed their story.

Where, everything I have seen still says OS6 will not support Mac.

[art_director]

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
Where, everything I have seen still says OS6 will not support Mac.

yeah, me too. a client who works on handheld software told me they have since rescinded that statement yet there's no mention to be found. my client is well connected within the handheld community and got his information from a source at palm. that's what i'm going off.

[art_director]

it occured to me that the user (didn't bother reading back for a name) who complained about the ppc being a pain for contacts (because he / she needed to hit 'start' then 'contacts') was missing one thing: there's a flippin' physical button on most, if not all, ppcs that takes you to the contacts. there's also one for calendar, e-mail, etc. if you don;t like the options as assigned you can reprogram them very easily.

[art_director]

ppc rules:

http://www.pocketpcmag.com/_archives/Sep04/40things.asp

[BZ]

A few things:

Palm might be dropping support but it does not look like it from this new area...

http://www.palmone.com/us/macintosh/

I use a T3 with OSX and my wife has the TE.

For your money, the Tungsten E is a great machine.

BZ

[mbryda]

Originally posted by art_director:
ppc rules:

http://www.pocketpcmag.com/_archives/Sep04/40things.asp

Palm can do all of those things...

[art_director]

Originally posted by mbryda:
Palm can do all of those things...

with all due respect, nobody ever said palm could not do those things.

[goMac]

I have a Tungsten T3.

The networking support far outdoes anything I have seen on PPC. Bluetooth rocks on this. I can send files back and forth to my mac without the Palm desktop software via Bluetooth. You can exchange data with Macs without any special sync software out of the box. Of course, there is a Palm Desktop for OS X. You can also network with other Palms via Bluetooth. The Tungsten C also has 802.11.

The screen is great, and the Tungsten supports Word and Excel files. It has a heads up screen which shows all your todos and events coming up. Overall this one has made my PPC friends all drool over it.

One app you really should try is Sailing Clicker for Palm. It lets you remote control your mac via bluetooth and even browse iPhoto and control the mouse.

The Tungsten is also very fast. It uses the same Intel processors PPC's use. The T3 has a 400 mhz XScale.

[art_director]

Originally posted by goMac:
I have a Tungsten T3.

The networking support far outdoes anything I have seen on PPC. Bluetooth rocks on this. I can send files back and forth to my mac without the Palm desktop software via Bluetooth. You can exchange data with Macs without any special sync software out of the box. Of course, there is a Palm Desktop for OS X. You can also network with other Palms via Bluetooth. The Tungsten C also has 802.11.

The screen is great, and the Tungsten supports Word and Excel files. It has a heads up screen which shows all your todos and events coming up. Overall this one has made my PPC friends all drool over it.

One app you really should try is Sailing Clicker for Palm. It lets you remote control your mac via bluetooth and even browse iPhoto and control the mouse.

The Tungsten is also very fast. It uses the same Intel processors PPC's use. The T3 has a 400 mhz XScale.

that's a nice device, no doubt. but fact is the ppc does most everything your palm does. the only exceptions being the palm desktop software (i personally never liked their desktop app) and controling a mac via the device (personally have no use for this since i'm a laptop user).

[goMac]

Originally posted by art_director:
that's a nice device, no doubt. but fact is the ppc does most everything your palm does. the only exceptions being the palm desktop software (i personally never liked their desktop app) and controling a mac via the device (personally have no use for this since i'm a laptop user).

In my experience Palm handles multimedia much better than PPC right now (for a change). The interface is much better, as is the handheld design. The Tungsten also supports both portrait and landscape mode. The interface is far cleaner, and there are far more apps for Palm. Strangely stability is about the same as PPC. Palm used to be rock solid, but Palm OS 5 has given me a few crashes.