[Starry Night]

I'm ready to buy Panther and MacSales offers two choices, the retail box for $74.99 or the OEM version for $49.99.

For Panther installation and all practical purposes, is the less expensive OEM version going to work the same? Is there any compelling reason to pay extra for the retail version?

Thanks.

[eggman]

Originally Posted by Starry Night

I'm ready to buy Panther and MacSales offers two choices, the retail box for $74.99 or the OEM version for $49.99.

For Panther installation and all practical purposes, is the less expensive OEM version going to work the same? Is there any compelling reason to pay extra for the retail version?

I don't have an answer to your question... except to make the observation that I can't imagine who OEMs Apple operating systems! It isn't like there are discount Apple Computer clones anymore - so who rebranded Panther?

[Starry Night]

Good question, I don't know. Here's the link to OWC and their OEM version:

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Apple/6036247/

[RevEvs]

The only difference i can think of is maybe one is a Upgrade CD?

[msuper69]

I don't see where this is an OEM version.

One is for the DVD version, the other is the CD version.

[OptimusG4]

One probably came from a computer with Panther preinstalled, and the other of course is the retail version.

[Peabo]

Why Panther, not Tiger?

[turtle777]

I don't know what an OEM version would be anyways.

I think it is very likely that these are illegal licenses, because they could be like from a school lab that doesn't need all the physical copies around, although they are using the licenses...

-t

[olePigeon]

There could be slight variations. The difference is that OEM is just the CD and often the CD that shipped with a computer (i.e. PowerMac G5 Install Disc.) The problem with that (and as I found out) is that not all OEM versions of OS X work with other Macs. For example, the 2nd generation eMac OEM OS X Disc disables the thernet port on 3rd generation eMacs (took me a LONG time to figure that one out.) And any OEM OS X disc for a G4 Mac won't work on a PowerMac or iMac with a G5 because of how it handles memory.

Your best bet is to stick with a Retail version. Or better yet, do what my bro and I did. We bought the Family Pack at the Tiger Rollout for US $198 after tax. Kept two copies for ourselves, then sold the other 3 to our friends for US $40 each. We gave them the Proof of Purchase card, 2 photocopies of the UPC, 2 photocopies of the receipt, a PDF of the manual, and a 2 burned copies of the DVD (one for backup.)

So we all got Tiger for $40.

[wunderkind]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

We bought the Family Pack at the Tiger Rollout for US $198 after tax. Kept two copies for ourselves, then sold the other 3 to our friends for US $40 each. We gave them the Proof of Purchase card, 2 photocopies of the UPC, 2 photocopies of the receipt, a PDF of the manual, and a 2 burned copies of the DVD (one for backup.)

So we all got Tiger for $40.

I thought that all five Family Pack Tiger licenses are supposed to be used on five Macs within the same household.

[Starry Night]

Aloha,

I think you guys are correct, they're not OEM. DealMac listed the versions as OEM or Retail Box, but MacSales (OWC) doesn't say anything about OEM.

The $49 one is "Apple Mac OSX 10.3.x 'Panther' Universal Installation Set on DVD with Apple Manual and License". That sounds official.

Old Pidgeon, in this case, the less expensive one is the DVD version. At MacSales, the CD version is the retail box.

A bit confusing!

I'm going with Panther because I'm not a power user (website and word processing), I don't need the latest technology. My approach is stay one step behind both in hardware and OS. I save money and am virtually assured that if any problem arises there will be a fix already worked out well in advance by you pioneers

[chabig]

Originally Posted by wunderkind

I thought that all five Family Pack Tiger licenses are supposed to be used on five Macs within the same household.

They are. We have an admitted criminal on the boards!

Chris

[CharlesS]

The difference is: The retail version will work on your Mac, while the OEM version probably won't unless you have the same Mac model that they took the OEM discs from.

I hate getting e-mails from people who bought an OEM version of OS X somewhere, and it refused to install on their Macs, and they want to know how to do it with Pacifist. No. Not for the whole OS. Just get the retail version.

[Angus_D]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

We bought the Family Pack at the Tiger Rollout for US $198 after tax. Kept two copies for ourselves, then sold the other 3 to our friends for US $40 each. We gave them the Proof of Purchase card, 2 photocopies of the UPC, 2 photocopies of the receipt, a PDF of the manual, and a 2 burned copies of the DVD (one for backup.)

I'm sorry, but that's an egregious violation of the license agreement. Not only are you pirating software, you're also admitting to PROFITING OFF PIRACY. That's just ridiculous.

Apple Computer, Inc.
Mac OS X Family Pack

ADDENDUM to Software License Agreement for Mac OS X

The first and second sentences of Section 2A of the Software License Agreement for Mac OS X are revised as follows:

A. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on up to a maximum of five (5) Apple-labeled computers at a time as long as those computers are located in the same household and used by persons who occupy that same household. By "household" we mean a person or persons who share the same housing unit such as a home, apartment, mobile home or condominium, but shall also extend to student members who are primary residents of that household but residing at a separate on-campus location. This license does not extend to business or commercial users.

The remainder of this Section 2 and all other terms and conditions of this Agreement remain in full force and effect.

[Starry Night]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

The difference is: The retail version will work on your Mac, while the OEM version probably won't unless you have the same Mac model that they took the OEM discs from.

I hate getting e-mails from people who bought an OEM version of OS X somewhere, and it refused to install on their Macs, and they want to know how to do it with Pacifist. No. Not for the whole OS. Just get the retail version.

Here's what MacSales told me:

"Both disks are from Apple. The OEM disks were overruns from eMac or iMac production and Apple sold these to us at a very good price. These a full featured OS disks that in spite of their markings are universal installer disks. As long as your machine is capable of running OS 10.3 then the OEM disk will work fine."

This seems to imply that it's the same as the retail version. Is that untrue?

[bmedina]

Originally Posted by z0ne81

Why Panther, not Tiger?

That was my first thought too. It seems weird to spend money on Panther at this point.

[romeosc]

Originally Posted by bmedina

That was my first thought too. It seems weird to spend money on Panther at this point.

As noted in enlarged picture on site they came with an Ibook and restore only to them.
They bought extras that were produced to go with Ibooks and were replaced with Tiger, so the physical DVDs and manuals are for sale!

They are legal, just "grey market"

[Starry Night]

I'm using 10.2.6 which works great. I realize there are different ways to approach the OS thing, but to me, given that I have no need for the latest and greatest because my main uses are word processing and website creation, it makes more sense to stay a step behind. I exchange cutting edge for "been around, had all the kinks worked out of it".

For me, the absence of kinks is a much greater priority than cutting edge. Especially given that the Tiger new features don't really get me excited. And the kinks with Tiger appear to be extensive.

In a couple of years, when Tiger is mature, I'll switch to it.

I did the same thing for my Mac hardware purchase. I bought a new G4 PowerMac when the G5's came out. The G4 PM was not cutting edge, but it is tried and true, and MUCH less expensive.

It's just a different approach........

[TheIceMan]

Starry Night: Interesting approach. The more I think about it the more it makes sense. Unfortunately for me, I LOVE the latest and greatest and like you explained, sometimes that means dealing with the "kinks." Still, I think Tiger is a worthwhile upgrade and I cannot wait to get my hands on it.

[Millennium]

Usually, the OEM version of the Mac OS is the same one that you could get in stores at the time that the OEM version was installed. This was true even before OSX.

That said, there have been exceptions to this in the past. Usually this happens when a brand-new architecture comes out, and a special build of the OS has to be made to support it. The last time this happened was when the first Power Mac G5s came out; they had a special build of 10.2.7 called 'Smeagol' installed. The only added feature was the ability to run on the G5s; no significant attempts at optimizing it for the G5 were made, since Panther was about to be released, and 10.2.8 made the whole thing moot on the 10.2 line anyway.

[Starry Night]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Usually, the OEM version of the Mac OS is the same one that you could get in stores at the time that the OEM version was installed. This was true even before OSX.

That said, there have been exceptions to this in the past. Usually this happens when a brand-new architecture comes out, and a special build of the OS has to be made to support it. The last time this happened was when the first Power Mac G5s came out; they had a special build of 10.2.7 called 'Smeagol' installed. The only added feature was the ability to run on the G5s; no significant attempts at optimizing it for the G5 were made, since Panther was about to be released, and 10.2.8 made the whole thing moot on the 10.2 line anyway.

Thanks for the info. Here are a few questions:

1) The OEM version that OWC is selling is for emac and imacs. I'll be installing on a G4 (SP) PowerMac. I would guess the architecture is similiar. If there is a conflict, what would the resulting problem be? Would it simply be that the OS doesn't install? Or would it be that it might install but have demons always "looming in the halls" causing strange problems as I use the OS? Or is there no way to tell and I just need to stop being cheap and spend the extra $25 for the retail box

2) I have dialup and attempted to download the 10.3.9 Combo Update overnight. At 116MB it was going to take over 11 hours (yikes!) Apparently 6 hours into it the internet connection was dropped. If I ask a windows user with RoadRunner to download and burn it to disk for me, about how long will it take them? I don't want to overburden them, is it a matter of a few minutes on broadband?

And does it matter if it's a windows burned disk?

3) Does Apple sell an update CD?

Thanks!

[Angus_D]

Originally Posted by Starry Night

1) The OEM version that OWC is selling is for emac and imacs. I'll be installing on a G4 (SP) PowerMac. I would guess the architecture is similiar. If there is a conflict, what would the resulting problem be? Would it simply be that the OS doesn't install? Or would it be that it might install but have demons always "looming in the halls" causing strange problems as I use the OS? Or is there no way to tell and I just need to stop being cheap and spend the extra $25 for the retail box

I am pretty sure that it will just outright refuse to install. They deliberately check the model and refuse to install if it's wrong. It's not a case of "similar architecture".

2) I have dialup and attempted to download the 10.3.9 Combo Update overnight. At 116MB it was going to take over 11 hours (yikes!) Apparently 6 hours into it the internet connection was dropped. If I ask a windows user with RoadRunner to download and burn it to disk for me, about how long will it take them? I don't want to overburden them, is it a matter of a few minutes on broadband?

Depends on how fast their broadband is. Probably about half an hour tops, though.

And does it matter if it's a windows burned disk?

No, that should work fine.

3) Does Apple sell an update CD?

I don't think so, but if you ask the Genius Bar at an Apple Retail Store they might be able to burn it for you.

[romeosc]

If you are a member of local Mac Users group, they probably have a CD of the month with all of Apple updates for $5 or so. Memphis Applecore has a " Kitchen Sink" CD every Month!

[Starry Night]

Originally Posted by romeosc

If you are a member of local Mac Users group, they probably have a CD of the month with all of Apple updates for $5 or so. Memphis Applecore has a " Kitchen Sink" CD every Month!

I was able to get the local Apple store to burn a disk with the 10.3.8 & 10.3.9 combo updates plus the 2005-002 security update, all for $5! I told the genius about my laidback update scheme and he thought it was a good idea. He said that if the new Tiger features (Spotlight, Dashboard, etc) don't wow me, that there's no good reason to upgrade to Tiger as most of the under the hood improvements will effect a G5 (I have a G4).

[Angus_D]

Originally Posted by Starry Night

He said that if the new Tiger features (Spotlight, Dashboard, etc) don't wow me, that there's no good reason to upgrade to Tiger as most of the under the hood improvements will effect a G5 (I have a G4).

He doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the under the hood improvements will affect (not effect, go read a dictionary) G4s and G5s equally. The only one which won't is support for 64-bit address spaces, but most things won't take advantage of that even on G5s for a while.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Angus_D

I am pretty sure that it will just outright refuse to install. They deliberately check the model and refuse to install if it's wrong. It's not a case of "similar architecture".

Not for the OS install part. Just for the "software bundle" part.

I have a Titanium PowerBook G4 and a Dual 2.0 GHz Power Mac G5. I could take the disk that came with my G5 and install the operating system on my PowerBook just fine.

I have a friend who got an iMac G5, and he was able to use that disk to install the OS on his G4 cube.

Now, before you accuse us of piracy, you should know that we both have legal retail copies of Panther that we used on the second machines. We just preferred an installation DVD over 3 CDs.

The only case where something like that would NOT work, is where you take an older machine's disk, and try to install the OS on a newer machine. And it wouldn't work with the classic Mac OS disks.

[msuper69]

The next time you find yourself trying to remember where the heck (insert name of file here) is, you'll wish you had Tiger. Spotlight alone is worth the $129 retail.

[Chuckit]

If I need to find (insert name of file here), Spotlight is not particularly more useful than Find or Sherlock.

[msuper69]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

If I need to find (insert name of file here), Spotlight is not particularly more useful than Find or Sherlock.

I should have said ("insert text here") rather than "insert name of file here".

Big difference.

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by msuper69

The next time you find yourself trying to remember where the heck (insert name of file here) is, you'll wish you had Tiger. Spotlight alone is worth the $129 retail.

I disagree. All I want is a standard Find file dialog, I don't need a constantly updated metadata index, since I always put files in their proper place when I make them. Being forced to use Spotlight just so I can use Find is a real crapper. At least when Apple put Sherlock in the 8.x days, you could still get the old Find box. Not so anymore.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Starry Night

I was able to get the local Apple store to burn a disk with the 10.3.8 & 10.3.9 combo updates plus the 2005-002 security update, all for $5! I told the genius about my laidback update scheme and he thought it was a good idea. He said that if the new Tiger features (Spotlight, Dashboard, etc) don't wow me, that there's no good reason to upgrade to Tiger as most of the under the hood improvements will effect a G5 (I have a G4).

Actually, most of the under-the-hood improvements will affect your ability to run applications. As soon as apps start using the new frameworks like CoreData and CoreImage heavily, boom, you can't run them on Panther because you don't have CoreData or CoreImage. Same goes for the more minor and less publicized new classes and methods added to the Foundation and AppKit frameworks - if programs want to use them, and you don't have them, you're out of luck.

[Chuckit]

On the other hand, most major developers aim for backward compatibility. The only company that generally requires the very latest OS for its apps is...Apple.

[CatOne]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

There could be slight variations. The difference is that OEM is just the CD and often the CD that shipped with a computer (i.e. PowerMac G5 Install Disc.) The problem with that (and as I found out) is that not all OEM versions of OS X work with other Macs. For example, the 2nd generation eMac OEM OS X Disc disables the thernet port on 3rd generation eMacs (took me a LONG time to figure that one out.) And any OEM OS X disc for a G4 Mac won't work on a PowerMac or iMac with a G5 because of how it handles memory.

Your best bet is to stick with a Retail version. Or better yet, do what my bro and I did. We bought the Family Pack at the Tiger Rollout for US $198 after tax. Kept two copies for ourselves, then sold the other 3 to our friends for US $40 each. We gave them the Proof of Purchase card, 2 photocopies of the UPC, 2 photocopies of the receipt, a PDF of the manual, and a 2 burned copies of the DVD (one for backup.)

So we all got Tiger for $40.

You could have done the same with the $129 version. It would be just as legal. That is, completely illegal, as you have apparently had issues reading the license agreement which specifically prohibits what you did.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

On the other hand, most major developers aim for backward compatibility. The only company that generally requires the very latest OS for its apps is...Apple.

... and hordes of shareware and freeware developers.

Let's face it, when Apple adds tons of nice functionality to the API set, it's going to tempt people to use it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CatOne

You could have done the same with the $129 version. It would be just as legal. That is, completely illegal, as you have apparently had issues reading the license agreement which specifically prohibits what you did.

Why even spending the $ 129 ?
Why not just leech it p2p and send Apple a chashier's check of how much it was worth to YOU....

-t

[Starry Night]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Usually, the OEM version of the Mac OS is the same one that you could get in stores at the time that the OEM version was installed. This was true even before OSX.

That said, there have been exceptions to this in the past. Usually this happens when a brand-new architecture comes out, and a special build of the OS has to be made to support it. The last time this happened was when the first Power Mac G5s came out; they had a special build of 10.2.7 called 'Smeagol' installed. The only added feature was the ability to run on the G5s; no significant attempts at optimizing it for the G5 were made, since Panther was about to be released, and 10.2.8 made the whole thing moot on the 10.2 line anyway.

I heard back from OWC, here's what they say in regards to whether or not the OEM version is model specific:

"This is true for G5, MacMini, and PowerBook disks.  The iBook, iMac, and eMac OEM disks are universal install disks and do not differ from the Retail Box versions except in the printing on the CD."

Would I be making a mistake going with the OEM version? I'm confused because some here feel so certain that OEM will cause problems, but I'm not clear how much of that opinion is based upon specific fact and first hand experience

[Chuckit]

I say order it and, if they lied to you, just return it and demand a replacement that works as promised.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Starry Night

I heard back from OWC, here's what they say in regards to whether or not the OEM version is model specific:

"This is true for G5, MacMini, and PowerBook disks. The iBook, iMac, and eMac OEM disks are universal install disks and do not differ from the Retail Box versions except in the printing on the CD."

Would I be making a mistake going with the OEM version? I'm confused because some here feel so certain that OEM will cause problems, but I'm not clear how much of that opinion is based upon specific fact and first hand experience

When I got an OEM disk from them, it was an iBook disk, and it worked fine on a G5 and a PowerBook G4 (the G5 was already properly licensed, but I had lost the system restore disks; the PBG4 got the new license). Is there a way you can make sure that you get such a disk from them?

[Starry Night]

OWC assures me that the disks come from iMac and eMac over production runs, I think that would be enough assurance. What do you think? If something is screwy, I'm very tenacious about standing up for myself.

It just seems, why pay $75 when I can supposedly get the exact same thing for $49?

[Starry Night]

Thanks again for everyone's help.

In reading replies here at Macnn as well as at other Mac discussion locations, the best I can figure is that everyone is at least partially correct. Once again, this is not my knowledge, just what I've read. In some cases an OEM version of OSX can be model specific and cause problems if you try and install it on a different model Mac. Yet these Universal Install versions do appear to be fine. OWC is a reputable dealer and has been selling these discounted versions for over 6 months, thus I think they would've heard if there were problems.

This is confirmed by replies from at least 2 seperate posters who have had personal experience with these OWC disks who have installed it on a different Mac model and all went well.

Thus I've ordered Panther for $49 and will report back with how it goes.

Thanks again!