[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I guess you have a strict definition of "downloadable". If say a map is downloaded to your local storage, is that not downloadable content?

Well, from the description it sounds like you're just viewing a web site with the maps (and polls ) on it, not actually adding content to the movie, per se, and it's not even clear if the content is cached on the player or if you have to connect each time you want to view it.

Considering that the PS3 is very upgradable and there are very few standalone Blu-ray players, I would say that these differences actually affect very few people. It would kind of suck to be one of those early adopters, but I guess that's the way it goes. My early DVD player had trouble playing DVDs with seamless branching features and pop-up graphics, and I just saw a TV online that's equal or superior to the 50" DLP set I bought 3 years ago, going for 1/3 of what I paid for mine. That's part of the risk you take, I guess.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Well, from the description it sounds like you're just viewing a web site with the maps (and polls ) on it, not actually adding content to the movie, per se, and it's not even clear if the content is cached on the player or if you have to connect each time you want to view it.

Yeah, the polls idea seems kind of lame, but I do like the idea of the maps. You could be right to say that they aren't definitely added to local storage, but they could very well be, and all HD DVD players allow this (if the disc supports it).

Considering that the PS3 is very upgradable and there are very few standalone Blu-ray players, I would say that these differences actually affect very few people.

I guess there's an advantage for a format to have terrible standalone sales.

It would kind of suck to be one of those early adopters, but I guess that's the way it goes. My early DVD player had trouble playing DVDs with seamless branching features and pop-up graphics, and I just saw a TV online that's equal or superior to the 50" DLP set I bought 3 years ago, going for 1/3 of what I paid for mine. That's part of the risk you take, I guess.

Not with HD DVD, apparently.

However, if TL51 or even DL34 comes and isn't supported on Gen1 HD DVD players, I'll complain just as loudly about that too.

P.S. My first gen DVD player works fine with seamless branching. It's an RCA, which is a rebadged Panasonic.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

» plays "Region 1" DVDs and "Region A" Blu-ray Discs only[/i]

Bluray has region codes? Bleh.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Bluray has region codes? Bleh.

Yes it sucks.

Region 1: North America, South America, East Asia except for China (India, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia etc.)
Region 2: Europe and Africa
Region 3: China, Russia and other countries

OTOH, it's a major improvement over DVD regions, but it'd be preferable to have HD DVD's current situation, which is no regions at all.

P.S. I just received my Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire & La Haine HD DVDs last week from the UK. Harry Potter is a great disc. Haven't watched La Haine yet.

[icruise]

I agree that region coding isn't great, although the only time region coding on DVDs ever mattered to me personally was when I wanted to watch Japanese DVDs, so in that sense Blu-ray is a big improvement. It's kind of funny that it does have region codes, considering that the PS3 is the only region-free console.

[jokell82]

HD-A2 is back down to $240 at Amazon. Just ordered it. Canceled that, went to CostCo to get the HD-D2 (rebranded A2) for the same price, but now I have it today instead of later this week.

Had some gift cards for Best Buy, and picked up a few movies there. Looks like I just picked a side.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I agree that region coding isn't great, although the only time region coding on DVDs ever mattered to me personally was when I wanted to watch Japanese DVDs, so in that sense Blu-ray is a big improvement. It's kind of funny that it does have region codes, considering that the PS3 is the only region-free console.

PS3 is region free for DVDs? That's nice if true, but that surprises me.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

PS3 is region free for DVDs? That's nice if true, but that surprises me.

PS3 is region free for games, not DVD/BD.

[icruise]

It's region free for PS3 games, not DVDs or PS1/PS2 games. But the point is that Sony went out of their way to make it region free in that case, but left the regions in for Blu-ray. I imagine it was because the movie studios wanted it.

[Eug]

The A2 is now $243 from Amazon itself.
The A2 is now $199 from Conn's in Texas, in-store.
The A20 (with 1080p output) is now $309 from Electronics Expo through Amazon.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

$499 for the new sony BR player:
Sony cuts price on new Blu-ray player - Yahoo! News

[Dakarʒ]

Things are heating up. The holidays should be interesting.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The A2 is now $243 from Amazon itself.
The A2 is now $199 from Conn's in Texas, in-store.
The A20 (with 1080p output) is now $309 from Electronics Expo through Amazon.

This is the biggest reason I haven't bought HD-DVD yet. The prices are just plummeting right now. If I just wait, I figure it won't be long until I can get an A20 for $200 or something.

[ort888]

Yeah, a stand-alone for $200 or less is my breaking point. I wonder when Microsoft is going to drop the price of the 360 add-on.

$199 is not such a great price anymore. They should drop it to $99 if they really want to make a splash.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Yeah, a stand-alone for $200 or less is my breaking point.

As per my previous post, it's already at 1 cent under $200 at Conn's, for the A2 (but not the A20).

I wonder when Microsoft is going to drop the price of the 360 add-on. $199 is not such a great price anymore. They should drop it to $99 if they really want to make a splash.

I don't think they'll go that low. My guess is they may drop it to $149 though at Xmas.

I will note however that you can already get the bare drive (without the enclosure, etc) for $79.99 on eBhey.

EDIT:

It would appear that the $199.99 price at Conn's is a mistake. Several people have gotten it at that price, but it's supposed to be $299.99. It's gonna change to that very soon methinks.

[ort888]

I haven't read every page of this thread, so this may have been brought up...

Have you guys heard the conspiracy theory that the only reason Microsoft is so heavily backing HD-DVD is to drag the format war out as long as possible and spread confusion, making sure that neither format takes off enough to be a threat to some future movie downloading service that they plan on providing?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I haven't read every page of this thread, so this may have been brought up...

Have you guys heard the conspiracy theory that the only reason Microsoft is so heavily backing HD-DVD is to drag the format war out as long as possible and spread confusion, making sure that neither format takes off enough to be a threat to some future movie downloading service that they plan on providing?

That makes little sense. Microsoft has quite a large stake in ensuring HD DVD does well.

1) Microsoft wrote iHD - That's the interactive layer of HD DVD.
2) Microsoft wrote VC-1 - That's on both HD DVD and Blu-ray, but seems to be more popular on HD DVD.
3) Microsoft helped design the SoC solution for HD DVD - It's likely that a whole batch of new players from Asia coming in 2007 and 2008 will use this design... which is based off Windows CE.

So, the best result for Microsoft would NOT be to drag out this war. The best result for Microsoft would be to have HD DVD win asap. I don't see that happening though. It's gonna be quite some time before there is any winner.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

HD-DVD Buyers Beware

The Digital Bits presents... The Soapbox

[Adam Betts]

Nothing more than a typical FUD.

[icruise]

FUD on the part of whom? I'd say that saying (as the Harry Knowles apparently did) that Blu-ray players can't play normal DVDs or that there are 10 times as many HD-DVD titles as Blu-ray titles is some pretty major (and bizarrely inaccurate) FUD.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

FUD on the part of whom? I'd say that saying (as the Harry Knowles apparently did) that Blu-ray players can't play normal DVDs or that there are 10 times as many HD-DVD titles as Blu-ray titles is some pretty major (and bizarrely inaccurate) FUD.

I'd say The Digital Bits is spreading FUD, and Ain't It Cool News is spreading FUD and stupidity. So yeah, AICN is much worse, but they're both FUD articles.

In the meantime, Toshiba has added an interesting twist to the war:

Wired: All Toshiba laptops in 2008 will have HD-DVD drives

Toshiba sold 9.2 million laptops in 2006.

[Adam Betts]

Originally Posted by icruise 

FUD on the part of whom? I'd say that saying (as the Harry Knowles apparently did) that Blu-ray players can't play normal DVDs or that there are 10 times as many HD-DVD titles as Blu-ray titles is some pretty major (and bizarrely inaccurate) FUD.

AICN is just plain stupid but TDB is no different with this long winded knee-jerk article.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'd say The Digital Bits is spreading FUD, and Ain't It Cool News is spreading FUD and stupidity. So yeah, AICN is much worse, but they're both FUD articles.

In the meantime, Toshiba has added an interesting twist to the war:

Wired: All Toshiba laptops in 2008 will have HD-DVD drives

Toshiba sold 9.2 million laptops in 2006.

I thought that Apple not adding Bluray drives to the Macbook Pro's today was telling, given that the 8600 has native Bluray/HD-DVD decoding support. It seems to me Apple still doesn't see a winner in the format war.

[hmurchison2001]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I thought that Apple not adding Bluray drives to the Macbook Pro's today was telling, given that the 8600 has native Bluray/HD-DVD decoding support. It seems to me Apple still doesn't see a winner in the format war.

Good point. The product that piques Apple's interest will be a hybrid mechanism that is inexpensive enough to maintain the budget. As with the first Superdrive Apple's not afraid to add a zero cost item if they get a lot of hype for it. Offering a laptop that supports HD DVD and Blu-ray would benefit consumers and those who author with Apple applications. I'd love to see a slot loading HDDVD/Bluray/DVD-+R drive.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts 

AICN is just plain stupid but TDB is no different with this long winded knee-jerk article.

What part of the DB story was inaccurate?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

What part of the DB story was inaccurate?

The part where he says he actually knows what's gonna happen.

The amusing part is he feels the need to respond to a basically irrelevant AICN article, around the time when Toshiba players are seeing increased sales because of the rebate program. Interesting timing...

[Adam Betts]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

What part of the DB story was inaccurate?

Did I say inaccurate? FUD and inaccurate have very different definitions in case you didn't know:

FUD: FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering [Amdahl] products.

Inaccurate: Mistaken or incorrect

Reread the article and tell me with a straight face that there was zero FUD in TDB's article.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The amusing part is he feels the need to respond to a basically irrelevant AICN article, around the time when Toshiba players are seeing increased sales because of the rebate program. Interesting timing...

Ha ha I smell some more FUD

[hmurchison2001]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

What part of the DB story was inaccurate?

Originally Posted by TDB

free porn is EVERYWHERE on the Net. And that's what companies like Vivid see as the future - downloading high-def porn to your PC. Read my lips: Skin flicks WILL NOT decide this format war.

Free doesn't mean "good". Considering that historically porn has been shown to be a deciding factor I'd say Hunt's statement holds little water and is far too subjective.

Originally Posted by TBD

As of 5/27, Blu-ray leads HD-DVD in overall software sales, 58% to 42% since both formats launched. The more recent trends are more lopsided: Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 67% to 33% year-to-date for 2007. That's a 2 to 1 margin, DESPITE the fact that HD-DVD claims to have sold many more actual stand-alone players than Blu-ray Disc.

Means little. Appeal to authority fallacy. Neilsen/videoscan numbers do not incorporate the sales of large companies like Amazon and Wal-Mart IIRC. Their numbers are a guideline but not something to bank on. With a 4 studio advantage the fact that the two formats are seperated by a few percentage points is embarassing for blu-ray.

Originally Posted by TBD

According to Home Media: "The two “Pirates” films sold a combined total of nearly 47,000 units, while the higher-priced “Matrix” sets sold about 13,900 units." So more people purchased BOTH Pirates BDs than purchased any Matrix box set - even the cheaper one.

Hunt is officially a moron. Lets see what do I think will sell better a $24 title that is a couple years old or a $79-$99 title that is ten years old? Sure I admit that PotC sold better...however the mitigating factors area easy to see. There was roughly a $6k difference in total revenue so from another PoV the battle was a dead heat.

Originally Posted by TBD

But we CANNOT join him in recommending the HD-DVD format to ANYONE, no matter how cheap.

Why not?

Originally Posted by TBD

We've been involved with the home video industry for ten years now. Way back in 1997, when most people didn't even know what DVD was, we were telling people it was going to be the biggest thing since the CD. We were having conversations with the Hollywood studios that first year, where even the most senior studio executives were telling us we were crazy to think DVD was ever going to be anything more than a niche format. But we were right then. We gave the world it's first look at Circuit City's Divx format, and then said it was going to fail.

Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back. Anyone could have seen that Divx wasn't going to make it and that DVD was going to be a hit (after all it was the "CD" for video). Hunt's talking like he parted the Red Sea of knowledge for us poor peasants. Hunts past predictive capabilities have no bearing on what happens with HD DVD and Blu-ray. Another festering fallacy.

Originally Posted by TBD

And all of that experience tells us this: HD-DVD is not going to win this format war. In fact, one of two things is possible right now: Either Blu-ray will win, or neither format will win. But the best HD-DVD can hope for is to just keep hanging in the game as long as possible.

No shat Sherlock. Did DVD-Audio beat SACD or vice versa? Did DVD-r defeat DVD+r? Some things are destined to co-exist.

Originally Posted by TBD

Our readers trust us to give it to them straight, and to help guide them through the confusing home video landscape in such a way that they don't end up wasting their money. HD-DVD is a great format technically, but its business model is an utter and complete disaster from which it will not recover.

Really? Have they given "anything" straight in this article. All I've heard is why HD DVD cannot be recommended at "any" price with no supporting narrative. Now Hunt denigrates HD DVD's business model and claims it cannot recover..again with no supporting narrative. That's not giving me the straight.

Originally Posted by TBD

Meanwhile, Blu-ray is just as good technically and quality-wise, it has the support of EVERY HOLLYWOOD STUDIO BUT UNIVERSAL, it has the support of the MAJORITY OF HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS, and nearly the ENTIRE computer industry.

Really then why is there a Profile 1.1 coming in October for Blu-ray? Why are mandatory features like persistent storage, lossless codecs, networking and secondary audio/video decoders missing. Consumers don't have to use these features but disc authors need to know the target market for supporting such features.

Wow he capitalizes the lies to make them appear more truthful. Blu-ray contains more MAJOR studio support but if you're talking about studios you have count Weinstein and the Porn studios who are mostly HD DVD right now. Plus the indies seem to be more keen on HD DVD

AIMMA Supports HD DVD

Let's see "nearly the entire computing industry"

HP is the #1 computer vendor- they are neutral
Apple has the most cachet- they are neutral
Dell- is falling off fast--they are Blu-ray
Samsung- Neutral
Toshiba- HD DVD
Fujitsu- HD DVD
Acer- HD DVD and perhaps Blu-ray
Asus- HD DVD
Sony- Blu-ray

I'll crush Hunt when it comes to computer stuff. I've sold computers longer than his site's been around. (appeal to authority)

Originally Posted by TBD

There are lots of great titles coming out, many more titles are on the way, there are more models of stand-alone players available and they're getting cheaper all the time. Blu-ray Disc is by FAR the smarter choice. If you want spend the safe money, there's your best bet.

blather...nothing substantive given other than "trust me..I know what's best"

Originally Posted by TBD

But it means that Toshiba is losing even MORE money on HD-DVD hardware than they were before, which can't have a positive impact on their overall business. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call this a fire sale, but it sure smacks of desperation on Toshiba's part. But there's another, bigger problem with this as well. What other major HD-DVD manufacturer wants to compete with that?

FUD...pure and simple. How can Hunt talk about Toshiba's losses based on an assumption when it's clear that the PS3 is killing Sony profits. He conveniently ignores the "billions" that Sony is losing

Taipei Times - archives

I'm done with the rest of the article. Bill Hunt makes me sick. So his site was popular back in the days. Nobody at AVS gives a rip about The Digital Bits anymore. He's a relic and a shitty writer.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts 

Did I say inaccurate? FUD and inaccurate have very different definitions in case you didn't know:

FUD: FUD is the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that IBM sales people instill in the minds of potential customers who might be considering [Amdahl] products.

Inaccurate: Mistaken or incorrect

Reread the article and tell me with a straight face that there was zero FUD in TDB's article.

When people say that something is FUD, they generally mean that the thing in question is filled with vague half-truths, faulty logic, omission of important details, or other kinds of disinformation intended to sow the seeds of doubts in people's minds. I'm not sure you can say that something that is 100% accurate is "FUD". That's not to say that the article in question is 100% accurate -- they make some assertions that are really just their opinion -- but for the most part, I think it's pretty well thought out. A well-reasoned article is not FUD just because it happens to take a side.

[Eug]

A well-reasoned article is not FUD just because it happens to take a side.

He makes plenty of liberal assumptions to support his contentions. ie. It's opinionated FUD, but he basically announces it as near fact, which is why so many people are dismissing him.

It really makes no sense that he came up with this article against AICN in the first place. It's interesting to note that on the home theatre forums, even the HD DVD supporters forums (including myself) were stating that the AICN blog was stupid and should be ignored. Given this, the fact that Hunt has thrown down a meaningless gauntlet in a battle against AICN is rather oddly amusing.

Do two FUDs cancel each other out?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

He makes plenty of liberal assumptions to support his contentions. ie. It's opinionated FUD, but he basically announces it as near fact.

"Our opinions as expressed here are simply our own logical, common sense conclusions, based on our own research and experience."

" Here at The Bits, we interact on a daily basis with studio personnel at all levels, with authoring/technical staffers, with DVD producers, with filmmakers and with hardware manufacturers. So we're pretty good at having our finger on the pulse of the home video industry, and knowing what the trends are. "

"We simply CANNOT and WILL NOT recommend to our readers that they adopt a format that only has the full support of just a HANDFUL of major hardware manufacturers and ONLY A HANDFUL of the Hollywood studios - no matter how cheap the price - when a format of EQUAL quality and FAR GREATER studio and manufacturer support exists."

[hmurchison2001]

They spend so much time trying to build up their own credibility that they do just the opposite. Many people easily perceived the blue tint in TDB posts months ago. All the blustering about "research" and "connections" is simply a plea for us to extend some credibility that truly isn't earned.

The Digital Bits has some of the worst writing I've ever seen. Look at his post with the annoying all caps emphasis and lack of any effort whatsoever to back up opinions with anything substantive.

Bill Hunt's your guy if you have only one lobe functioning. Anyone who hasn't been lobotimized could see the extreme tilt.

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time. Nobody links to TDB for reviews anyways. High Def Digest has more pull than TBD.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hmurchison2001 

They spend so much time trying to build up their own credibility that they do just the opposite. Many people easily perceived the blue tint in TDB posts months ago. All the blustering about "research" and "connections" is simply a plea for us to extend some credibility that truly isn't earned.

Fair enough but I still don't see anything he said in terms of sales numbers or studio support which is wrong.

Is BR selling better? YES
Does BR have way more studio support? YES

Those are the only 2 real things he is choosing a side for and neither is in dispute.

So other than him having an opinion on which he sides with based on studio support what is so wrong about it?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

It really makes no sense that he came up with this article against AICN in the first place.

I think the AICN article was just the thing that spurred them into writing their endorsement of Blu-ray. The main thrust of the article was that they wanted to make their position clear, not that they wanted to disprove the AICN article. At least that's how I took it.

[hmurchison2001]

Unbelievable

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857584

Guy named Greg Suarez posts a "Bill Hunt's a good guy" thread on AVS

...
oops you might want to tell us you write reviews for TDB

Hi-Def Review - D�j� Vu (Blu-ray Disc)

[Eug]

^^^ Heh, that's hi.lar.i.ous. Not only FUD, but viral marketed FUD.

---

BBC: Planet Earth has the highest sales revenue of any hi-def title ever released

"Planet Earth: The Complete Series," from BBC Video, has generated $3.2 million in consumer spending since its April 24 release on both the HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats, according to figures provided by Warner Home Video.

With an average sales price of about $70, that translates to about 42,000 units. Sales of "Departed" recently topped the 100,000-unit mark, but at an average street price of $25, the total amount of money generated was less than "Planet Earth." To date, "Departed" has sold 102,000 units and generated about $2.8 million in consumer spending.

[Oversoul]

Unbelievable that someone Bill Hunt works with, knows, and is probably friends with would come to his defense? Wow, imagine that.

[hmurchison2001]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Unbelievable that someone Bill Hunt works with, knows, and is probably friends with would come to his defense? Wow, imagine that.

If you don't understand the etiquette of "full disclosure" then you should buy a clue.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I think the AICN article was just the thing that spurred them into writing their endorsement of Blu-ray. The main thrust of the article was that they wanted to make their position clear, not that they wanted to disprove the AICN article. At least that's how I took it.

The fact of the matter is the AICN story was full of flat out errors, nobody here has shown what was wrong with the DB story.

If anything the AICN was the pure fud.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Sony Offers "Third Disc Free" Blu-ray Promotion | High-Def Digest

[starman]

I think Bill is wrong on this one. Not that I have anything against BR, I own both, but I think that it's WAY too early to pick a winner, and the current state of the format war hasn't shown that either format has an advantage over the other. Sure BR has a higher capacity, but it doesn't have Universal. Also, HD-DVD is cheaper, and the PS3 isn't doing so well. For someone like Bill Hunt to tell people "Go Blu" really makes me wonder if he's 1) getting paid to say that or 2) something happened which made him not so much be pro-BR, but anti-HD-DVD.

The fact is, I have more than 2x as many HD-DVD discs as I do BR. Now that I have an Xbox 360 Elite I no longer need to pick BR over HD-DVD versions of the same titles because of HDMI (component output on the old 360 looked like ass. Elite HDMI output is on par with the PS3).

It's still way too early to tell which format is going to win. There's still no "killer app" for either format. HD is still a niche. Some players can upscale DVDs to 1080p and most people can't tell the difference (I can).

So I don't see an end to this war anytime soon. I'm disappointed in Bill's article. Very disappointed. That said, I'd be just as disappointed if he wrote the same type of article in defense of HD-DVD.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

I think Bill is wrong on this one. Not that I have anything against BR, I own both, but I think that it's WAY too early to pick a winner, and the current state of the format war hasn't shown that either format has an advantage over the other.

His whole bases is on one undeniable and important fact.

HD has ONE exclusive studio.
BR has SIX.

Which do you think will fold first and go neutral? The 6 studios on the format that is selling better on every title since Dec or the 1 studio that stubbornness is costing them a ton of sales?

[starman]

There's another important fact that people tend to forget:

EVERY SINGLE media format Sony has put out has FAILED.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

His whole bases is on one undeniable and important fact.

HD has ONE exclusive studio.
BR has SIX.

Half of which are owned by DIsney?

Honestly, I don't care very much about the studios. The studios can changes sides at any time. A year down the road everything could be reversed. The format specifications can't be changed a year down the road. I'd rather side with the superior format and wait for a few studios to go neutral, than deal with Sony changing the specs of the format mid rollout.

At least if I go HD-DVD I'll still be able to play any title completely that comes out a year from now. You can't say that with Bluray.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by hmurchison2001 

If you don't understand the etiquette of "full disclosure" then you should buy a clue.

If it were a material fact, then I'd call for full disclosure. But I see haven't seen The Digital Bits or Greg Suarez taking money from the BDA for Bill Hunt to write his column or Greg to write his defense. Is Greg acting in anything but a personal and non-pecuniary interest? The latter is certainly the feel of his defense as I read it.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

There's another important fact that people tend to forget:

EVERY SINGLE media format Sony has put out has FAILED.

MiniDisc did super well in Japan. Memory sticks are still doing well.

[starman]

This isn't Japan.
Memory sticks are only doing well because Sony forces people to buy them. I don' t know one camera manufacturer other than Sony that uses anything but CF or SD.

The only device manufacturers that allow the use of Memory Sticks do so in conjunction with support for all other formats.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by starman 

There's another important fact that people tend to forget:

EVERY SINGLE media format Sony has put out has FAILED.

Please. This is the red herring that everyone pulls out when they can't think of any other reason to criticize Blu-ray. The fact of the matter is that Betamax/VHS situation is the only one that is really comparable to the current one, and there are a still a lot of problems with that analogy, since the world is a very different place than it was when that format war was going on.

[starman]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Please. This is the red herring that everyone pulls out when they can't think of any other reason to criticize Blu-ray. The fact of the matter is that Betamax/VHS situation is the only one that is really comparable to the current one, and there are a still a lot of problems with that analogy, since the world is a very different place than it was when that format war was going on.

Beta
Minidisc
UMD
Memory Stick

All failed. This isn't JUST about Beta. Sony has a terrible way of marketing their proprietary stuff, and Blu is no different. So many titles are now cancelled/delayed that the future of BR is in serious doubt.