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My Biggest Gripe with Mac
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Helmling
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Jul 26, 2005, 11:09 PM
 
I just had one hell of a frustrating day, and I'm hoping someone will know how to prevent it from ever happening again.

When you drag and drop an image from the web into PowerPoint, Mac automatically uses TIFF compression on that image, hence rendering the image unviewable on a PC. I just spent a long time FIXING two image-heavy powerpoints by taking the extra step of going Insert>Picture>From File.

Please, tell me there's a way to just disable this non-feature on the Mac so that creating PC-compatible PowerPoints is not as tedious.
     
Thinine
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Jul 26, 2005, 11:18 PM
 
Wouldn't that be a problem with Windows instead? Or at the least, PowerPoint?

To fix it, you could try saving the picture to the desktop and inserting it into the slideshow from there instead of dragging from the browser.
     
Dog Like Nature
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Jul 26, 2005, 11:23 PM
 
Wow, if that's your biggest gripe, you should be a very happy Mac owner!
The problem you describe is, of course, Microsoft's fault for not displaying a common image format when using the Windows version of Powerpoint.
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Helmling  (op)
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Jul 26, 2005, 11:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thinine
Wouldn't that be a problem with Windows instead? Or at the least, PowerPoint?
Nope, sorry, I consider this very much Mac's fault. They promise us crossplatform compatibility and they blow it big time here. Now, Microsoft is pretty stupid about it too, since Office 2004's compatibility checker doesn't even catch this problemo.

To fix it, you could try saving the picture to the desktop and inserting it into the slideshow from there instead of dragging from the browser.
Yes, as I said, I've already fixed the existing presentations. What I was hoping is that someone knew how to tweak Tiger so it won't automatically compress images as they're dragged into apps. That'd save a lot of steps when working with PowerPoint...or Keynote?
     
Helmling  (op)
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Jul 26, 2005, 11:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dog Like Nature
Wow, if that's your biggest gripe, you should be a very happy Mac owner!
The problem you describe is, of course, Microsoft's fault for not displaying a common image format when using the Windows version of Powerpoint.
Don't get me wrong, I am a happy Mac owner. This is just my least happy moment as a Mac owner.

I'll admit my technical knowledge is limited, but are you saying that it's PowerPoint that's compressing the files into a quicktime format that its sister-programs on the PC side can't read? That seems to stretch the limit of absurdity beyond all reason...hmmm, exactly what Microsoft is prone to.

Still, it's quicktime that's doing this, no? It's the Mac OS, not PowerPoint?
     
OogaBooga
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Jul 26, 2005, 11:31 PM
 
That's Microsoft's way of bullying you for using a Mac. If Office had perfect cross-platform compatibility, Microsoft would lose Windows sales.
     
smeger
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Jul 26, 2005, 11:53 PM
 
Probably what's happening is that PowerPoint is embedding the TIFF image as it gets it from the operating system, using Macintosh byte-ordering. PowerPoint on Windows then gawks, because it expects Windows byte-ordering.

If this is what's happening, it's very much Microsoft's fault - TIFF is an open specification and there's no reason that their software should choke on a TIFF file, especially if it reads it properly on a different platform.

There are open-source TIFF libraries available that get this right, so MS has no excuse for getting it wrong.
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Helmling  (op)
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Jul 26, 2005, 11:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by smeger
Probably what's happening is that PowerPoint is embedding the TIFF image as it gets it from the operating system, using Macintosh byte-ordering. PowerPoint on Windows then gawks, because it expects Windows byte-ordering.

If this is what's happening, it's very much Microsoft's fault - TIFF is an open specification and there's no reason that their software should choke on a TIFF file, especially if it reads it properly on a different platform.

There are open-source TIFF libraries available that get this right, so MS has no excuse for getting it wrong.
Ok, that makes sense. I mean, it's not like TIFF is some proprietary format or something. I take it then, that's the end and there's nothing that can be done? I tried an old version of Keynote that i've had lying around on the hard drive and I couldn't even drag and drop an image into it at all. I was hopeful because somewhere else I read that Keynote didn't manifest this problem.
     
Randman
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Jul 26, 2005, 11:59 PM
 
Does Keynote have the same issue?

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Ganesha
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Jul 27, 2005, 01:01 AM
 
The Problem is with both Powerpoint and Safari. Mostly Powerpoint IMO.

When you drag and drop from your Safari, you are passing a graphical object. Safari offers the object to the target application as either as a bitmap (TIFF) or a file location.

Safari could be easily be programmed to offer images as the file location only (as temp location). And let the target application figure everything out. Which is what Finder does. However, this is not the way you want to do it, since in most cases you are moving fragments of a larger file. The nature of a web browser makes it possible to work this way, since a single image will always be associated with a single file. You have no option to sub-select part of an image as you do in a image processing application, in which case passing bitmaps would be the logical method of communication.

Powerpoint could easily be programmed to check all data types being offered and then figure out what the best one to use is. In which case Powerpoint will see, .gif or .jpg as file locations and should then decide it's better to use those, instead of the bitmap. This is the way all applications should be programmed, since a more specific data type may exist then the one offered.
     
Salty
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Jul 27, 2005, 01:05 AM
 
You problem is with PowerPoint. My solution would be to download the image to the desktop and convert it to a png file... and see if that fixed the problem with PPT. That said I personally don't use PowerPoint... much prefer Keynote.
     
Tsilou B.
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Jul 28, 2005, 02:11 AM
 
I have written a small converter application that converts all images in a PowerPoint presentation to PNG format, which is fully compatible with PowerPoint and PowerPoint Viewer on Windows. You can download it here:

http://www.savefile.com/files/4549919

The application must be installed in the "Office" folder inside your "Microsoft Office" folder, e.g. in "/Applications/Microsoft Office 2004/Office/", otherwise it won't work.

Open a presentation in PowerPoint, then open the converter and click the button. When the conversion is complete, save the presentation in PowerPoint and it should be fully compatible with PowerPoint on Windows.

By the way, it would be nice if someone could host the file on another server, because savefile.com will delete it in 14 days.
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 28, 2005, 02:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling
Nope, sorry, I consider this very much Mac's fault. They promise us crossplatform compatibility and they blow it big time here. Now, Microsoft is pretty stupid about it too, since Office 2004's compatibility checker doesn't even catch this problemo.

Yes, as I said, I've already fixed the existing presentations. What I was hoping is that someone knew how to tweak Tiger so it won't automatically compress images as they're dragged into apps. That'd save a lot of steps when working with PowerPoint...or Keynote?
Are you sure you installed the TIFF converter (in the options) on your Windows computer? They also deselect .png by default for instance.
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alphasubzero949
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Jul 28, 2005, 05:03 AM
 
I didn't know that Mac makes computers.
     
Tsilou B.
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Jul 28, 2005, 05:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
Are you sure you installed the TIFF converter (in the options) on your Windows computer? They also deselect .png by default for instance.
Current versions of PowerPoint for Windows will always read PNG files embedded in a presentation. Graphics inserted by dragging over pictures from Safari will never show up in Windows, even if the TIFF converter is installed. By the way, if you save the graphics as TIFF files in Photoshop and import these into PowerPoint, they show up just fine in PowerPoint for Windows, even if you had saved them as Mac TIFF files.

If you use the application I have posted (see above), you can still drag and drop (or copy and paste) pictures from Safari, and before you copy the presentation to your Windows computer, you can convert all pictures to a PC readable format with one click.
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 28, 2005, 06:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Tsilou B.
Current versions of PowerPoint for Windows will always read PNG files embedded in a presentation. Graphics inserted by dragging over pictures from Safari will never show up in Windows, even if the TIFF converter is installed. By the way, if you save the graphics as TIFF files in Photoshop and import these into PowerPoint, they show up just fine in PowerPoint for Windows, even if you had saved them as Mac TIFF files.

If you use the application I have posted (see above), you can still drag and drop (or copy and paste) pictures from Safari, and before you copy the presentation to your Windows computer, you can convert all pictures to a PC readable format with one click.
Ok, maybe you are right, at least the Office 2000 doesn't do that (installed it on a client's computer recently).
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Millennium
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Jul 28, 2005, 09:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling
Nope, sorry, I consider this very much Mac's fault. They promise us crossplatform compatibility and they blow it big time here.
How can this be Apple's fault? They don't write PowerPoint, or have any say at all in how PowerPoint is written. Microsoft has enough documentation to know that this happens, and they could certainly work with it.
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msuper69
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Jul 28, 2005, 09:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by alphasubzero949
I didn't know that Mac makes computers.
Yes. What is this Mac company? Perhaps the OP meant to say Apple?

Helmling, we are just giving you a little friendly grief over this very common way new Mac users often refer to the company Apple Computer. Apple makes Macs (thank God!).

     
Horsepoo!!!
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Jul 28, 2005, 09:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Millennium
How can this be Apple's fault? They don't write PowerPoint, or have any say at all in how PowerPoint is written. Microsoft has enough documentation to know that this happens, and they could certainly work with it.
This is an age old problem that will never end. An third-party app crashes but the blame lays squarely on the shoulders of the OS-maker, no matter what caused the crash. Such is the logic of someone that doesn't know how computers work or care about computers.
     
James41
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Jul 28, 2005, 09:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling
Nope, sorry, I consider this very much Mac's fault. They promise us crossplatform compatibility and they blow it big time here. Now, Microsoft is pretty stupid about it too, since Office 2004's compatibility checker doesn't even catch this problemo.
Actually i have used the .tif format for years under winders so it is not a format unfamiliar to M$. If the program you are using does not recgonize the .tif format, that is not the fault of the Mac or of OS X, but a fault of the program you are using. Which is really not all that suprising as it certainly would not be the first time M$ wrote programs specifically to break another systems workings.

As long as the .tif file that the Mac puts out is industry standard, then it can not be blamed because the M$ program does not read it. If it isn't, then that is a horse of a different color.
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Helmling  (op)
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Jul 28, 2005, 08:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Tsilou B.
I have written a small converter application that converts all images in a PowerPoint presentation to PNG format, which is fully compatible with PowerPoint and PowerPoint Viewer on Windows. You can download it here:

http://www.savefile.com/files/4549919

The application must be installed in the "Office" folder inside your "Microsoft Office" folder, e.g. in "/Applications/Microsoft Office 2004/Office/", otherwise it won't work.

Open a presentation in PowerPoint, then open the converter and click the button. When the conversion is complete, save the presentation in PowerPoint and it should be fully compatible with PowerPoint on Windows.

By the way, it would be nice if someone could host the file on another server, because savefile.com will delete it in 14 days.
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tgags
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Jul 28, 2005, 11:11 PM
 
Is this an OSX thing? Safari thing? Newer Office thing? And what about JPGs?

Last year (using OS9) I made several ppts, getting images off the web etc. then brought them to work and viewed on PCs, no problem. (I was using IE and Office 2000). I now have OSX, have not done a ppt yet though. This is a bit of a scary thought.
But when you drag images off the web to the desktop, aren't they JPGs? And aren't JPGs cross platform? I am curious as to where the TIF compression comes in. Tomorrow I'll get my PC laptop up and try a few trials.

TG
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 29, 2005, 02:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by tgags
Is this an OSX thing? Safari thing? Newer Office thing? And what about JPGs?

Last year (using OS9) I made several ppts, getting images off the web etc. then brought them to work and viewed on PCs, no problem. (I was using IE and Office 2000). I now have OSX, have not done a ppt yet though. This is a bit of a scary thought.
But when you drag images off the web to the desktop, aren't they JPGs? And aren't JPGs cross platform? I am curious as to where the TIF compression comes in. Tomorrow I'll get my PC laptop up and try a few trials.

TG
Office 2000 doesn't install the .tiff import filter by default (at least the small business version which I used), this could be one possible problem.
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CharlesS
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Jul 29, 2005, 03:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by tgags
Is this an OSX thing? Safari thing? Newer Office thing? And what about JPGs?

Last year (using OS9) I made several ppts, getting images off the web etc. then brought them to work and viewed on PCs, no problem. (I was using IE and Office 2000). I now have OSX, have not done a ppt yet though. This is a bit of a scary thought.
But when you drag images off the web to the desktop, aren't they JPGs? And aren't JPGs cross platform? I am curious as to where the TIF compression comes in. Tomorrow I'll get my PC laptop up and try a few trials.

TG
An image in Safari can be copied to the pasteboard if you right-click on it, and then it can be pasted into any graphics program. The format that the OS uses internally for copying picture data is TIFF. In Cocoa apps (and possibly in Carbon as well; I don't have enough knowledge of Carbon's drag-and-drop system to say one way or the other), drag-and-drop is handled by another pasteboard called the dragging pasteboard, which works in a way very similar to the general pasteboard that is used for copy-and-paste. Thus, Safari is probably using the same the code for encoding an image when either copy-and-paste or drag-and-drop is used on an image. And anyway, since TIFF is indeed a standard format, PowerPoint really should be accepting it and displaying it properly, and it certainly not Apple's fault that it isn't, since PowerPoint is made by Microsoft.

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Helmling  (op)
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Jul 31, 2005, 12:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Tsilou B.
I have written a small converter application that converts all images in a PowerPoint presentation to PNG format, which is fully compatible with PowerPoint and PowerPoint Viewer on Windows. You can download it here:

http://www.savefile.com/files/4549919

The application must be installed in the "Office" folder inside your "Microsoft Office" folder, e.g. in "/Applications/Microsoft Office 2004/Office/", otherwise it won't work.

Open a presentation in PowerPoint, then open the converter and click the button. When the conversion is complete, save the presentation in PowerPoint and it should be fully compatible with PowerPoint on Windows.

By the way, it would be nice if someone could host the file on another server, because savefile.com will delete it in 14 days.
Hey, Tsilou, I can't pull that converter you made? Is it to big to e-mail? If not, send it to me and I'll find a host for it.

Thanks!

[email protected]
( Last edited by Helmling; Jul 31, 2005 at 12:23 PM. )
     
Helmling  (op)
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Jul 31, 2005, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by msuper69
Yes. What is this Mac company? Perhaps the OP meant to say Apple?

Helmling, we are just giving you a little friendly grief over this very common way new Mac users often refer to the company Apple Computer. Apple makes Macs (thank God!).

What qualifies as "new" in your book?

And I call it MAC for a very good reason, thanks. I was an APPLE user long, long ago. But MAC screwed me by rendering my IIgs obsolete. I was a teensey bit bitter about that one.

Let's not quibble, eh? Mac and Apple are the same thing now since the other Apple computer lines died off in the 80's. Besides, if you look back, grammatically I didn't describe the company as "Mac," I said "I consider it Mac's fault." One might argue that my intention was to address "Mac" as an entity encompassing the physical hardware and software. The "they" in the next line could simply be drawing upon "Apple" as the implied antecedent.
     
Randman
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Jul 31, 2005, 10:57 PM
 
MAC means something in computing terms so calling a Mac a MAC is confusing to others as well as being incorrect.

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Dog Like Nature
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Jul 31, 2005, 11:39 PM
 
Mac and Apple are the same thing now
I was under the impression that the xServe is not a Mac.
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Helmling  (op)
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Aug 1, 2005, 12:05 AM
 
Good lord, you people need to relax.
     
Tsilou B.
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Aug 3, 2005, 08:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling
Hey, Tsilou, I can't pull that converter you made? Is it to big to e-mail? If not, send it to me and I'll find a host for it.

Thanks!

[email protected]
I have sent you an e-mail with the converter attached - I think it should work, the file is < 1MB.
     
budster101
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Aug 3, 2005, 10:52 AM
 
Use "Keynote"

PowerPoint SUCKS.
     
Helmling  (op)
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Aug 3, 2005, 10:14 PM
 
Tsilou,

Sorry man, the converter didn't work.

Budster,

Now, that Apple's making a decent mouse, the minute iWork includes a spreadsheet, I'm going to buy it and forever purge my system of all things Microsoft...FOREVER!!!
     
dawho9
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Aug 3, 2005, 10:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Tsilou B.

By the way, it would be nice if someone could host the file on another server, because savefile.com will delete it in 14 days.
Tons o' Bandwidth on my server.

http://www.portalxp.org/files/ImageConverter.dmg

dw9
( Last edited by dawho9; Aug 3, 2005 at 10:40 PM. )
     
tooki
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Aug 3, 2005, 10:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling
Still, it's quicktime that's doing this, no? It's the Mac OS, not PowerPoint?
No, it's PowerPoint doing it. The ball lies squarely and solely in Microsoft's court.

Originally Posted by Helmling
Mac and Apple are the same thing now since the other Apple computer lines died off in the 80's.
The xServe is not sold as a Mac (though I'd say that it is one in pretty much every way), but the iPod, iSight, Cinema Displays, Mighty Mouse, etc are indisputably not Macs.

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Gavin
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Aug 4, 2005, 02:45 PM
 
I'm curious, is it even possible to drag an image directly into powerpoint from IE on windows?

Anyway, I would use Apple not Mac when talking about the company, Mac is the product. It's like talking about Ford by calling them F150, or saying Vegetable Beef's hired a new CEO (for cambell's soup co.), it just confuses people. And sounds funny.
     
Helmling  (op)
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Aug 4, 2005, 07:44 PM
 
Oh please...if Ford only made the F-150, I'm sure people'd use them interchangeably, and besides, I didn't mean to do so. Geez...and you wonder why they call us geeks, people.
     
budster101
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Aug 4, 2005, 07:59 PM
 
But Apple doesn't just make Macs. They make

- Keyboards
- Mice
- Software
- Monitors
- Wireless Base Stations (Airport Extreme Base Stations)
- Wireless Cards (Airport Extreme Cards)
- Apple Ram
- iPods
     
Tsilou B.
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Aug 5, 2005, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling
Tsilou,

Sorry man, the converter didn't work.
It didn't work? That's really strange. What did it do? Have you installed it in the folder called "Office" which is inside your "Microsoft Office 2004" folder? It won't work if it's installed anywhere else, not even in a subfolder of the "Office" folder. I have tested it on several different Macs with Powerpoint 2004 and didn't have any problems.
     
Helmling  (op)
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Aug 5, 2005, 08:49 PM
 
Tsilou,

ah, it must be the version of powerpoint...I've got Office:X at home. Thanks anyway.

budster,

Fine, you nick-picking ninny..."if Ford only made F-150's and the parts for them..." and here's the important part, "I didn't mean to [use "mac" to mean "apple]." So, not only did I not intend to use "Mac" to mean "Apple," but I still don't admit to having done so, and what's more, this is the stupidest topic I've ever discussed online...

You people are goofballs of the first order.

P.S. Actually, this is nowhere near the stupidest topic I've discussed online, but you get my point.
     
budster101
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Aug 5, 2005, 11:15 PM
 
We are, aren't we.
     
Tsilou B.
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Aug 6, 2005, 03:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling
Tsilou,

ah, it must be the version of powerpoint...I've got Office:X at home. Thanks anyway.
Yep, that must be the problem. I had thought you were using 2004 because you talked about the compatibility checker in 2004 not catching the problem.
     
Helmling  (op)
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Aug 6, 2005, 05:57 PM
 
Yeah, I'd been trying to use another Mac at school to run it also, but at home I've only got X.
     
azdude
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Aug 6, 2005, 11:02 PM
 
I'd like to thank Tsilou for his utility... I've been bitten by this problem before, and this will be a lovely new utility to run.

Could it be installed into the Powerpoint menu system? A script menu perhaps?
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Gavin
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Aug 7, 2005, 01:32 AM
 
Helmling -
I didn't mean to sound like I was doggin on you with the ford thing, just trying to clarify why other people were.

It's just human nature to get pedantic when someone steps on your technobabble
     
kman42
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Sep 21, 2005, 11:21 AM
 
I'm just trying this out. How do you know if the file is a tiff when you drag it into PP? It doesn't seem to say anywhere in the Picture Format dialog.

thanks,
kman
     
Helmling  (op)
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Sep 21, 2005, 07:19 PM
 
Kman42,
It doesn't matter what kind of image it is, if you drag it into PowerPoint then the program will automatically use Quicktime's TIFF compresion routines. The PC PowerPoint--in another brilliant move by Microsoft--cannot deal with this compression format.

Go figure. Just always do "Insert>Picture>from file" if you're going to need to move the file to PC.
     
   
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