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DL3 Wish-list Time
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anyrandomthing
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May 28, 2008, 03:30 PM
 
I love delicious library, but I'm very disappointed in what I see in DL2. I really like having the panel on the right, and I like the pop-up information like in DL1. While there are some nice animations and general speed improvements, there seem to be few new features, and many just disappeared.

What I would like to see in 2.5 or 3:

+ Panel on right again, or at least a real quick-look.
+ Wishlist, amazon or not, doesn't matter.
+ Many, many more options in preferences. I mean it! An app that been around for a few years needs to have some customizability.
+ A whole buncha library stats
+ Fullscreen viewing
+ Harder to delete items

What would everyone else like to see?
     
Sinemacula
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May 28, 2008, 06:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by anyrandomthing View Post
What I would like to see in 2.5 or 3:

+ Panel on right again, or at least a real quick-look.
That's my #1 - or at least the option to place it on the side instead of the bottom.
MacBook Pro 2.4GHz; 4GB RAM; 23" Cinema Display
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If you don't know where you want to go, any road will take you there.
     
MDNZ
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May 29, 2008, 06:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by anyrandomthing View Post
+ Harder to delete items
There is an Undo delete under the Edit menu (uses Core Data)
     
illitrate
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May 30, 2008, 06:10 AM
 
can i add to the request for a wish list option too - a shelf that contains items that won't be included on the main Library shelves
i'd love to use DL to track pre-orders and remind me of dvds that i want to buy in a few months time when their price has come down to what i think the film is actually worth

i guess as an interim... if we mark the item as Private - that would stop it appearing when we export the Library? and then could create a Wish List shelf for all items that are Private and a Owned one for all that are not?
     
anyrandomthing  (op)
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May 30, 2008, 01:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by illitrate View Post
i guess as an interim... if we mark the item as Private - that would stop it appearing when we export the Library? and then could create a Wish List shelf for all items that are Private and a Owned one for all that are not?
that's a pretty good idea, if it'll work.
     
ignipotentis
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Jun 1, 2008, 11:41 AM
 
Look to TiVo! Implement a Swivel Search :-). I click on Indiana Jones. I don't feel like watching that, but Harrison Ford is in some good movies, so I click on him. The rest of my collection w/ him in it filters in. I now see The Fugitive. I remember I haven't seen a good movie w/ Tommy Lee Jones in a bit... so I click on him. MIB pops up. I figure I'm in the mood for a comedy so I grab that :-)
     
cchris
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Jun 1, 2008, 02:47 PM
 
Maybe by version 3 they'll have the Help done for version 2.
You can be honorable or you can make money.
--slogan of The Delicious Generation
     
Bastich
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Jun 1, 2008, 06:27 PM
 
2.1:
- Fix the missing actor search
- Put info panel back on the side (until my new tallscreen monitor arrives)

2.5-3.0:
- Option to change location of info panel (or make it a tearoff palette)
- Option to edit item info without having to click an edit button every time
- Option to set Movies (or whatever) to default library to be displayed

???
- Is the borrower silhouette gender taken from Address Book? Can it be changed? Never noticed that before.
- Some way to view hi-res cover art

NOW:
- Update system requirements on website so no more people with Tiger get screwed.

     
anyrandomthing  (op)
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Jun 1, 2008, 06:42 PM
 
another nice feature would be integrated cropping tools, for screwed up cover art... I hate cropping in PS and then moving it back over.
     
Bastich
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Jun 1, 2008, 07:09 PM
 
Oh yeah! Almost forgot: how about a different style DVD case template for box sets?
     
rodman109110
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Jun 1, 2008, 08:28 PM
 
for boxsets change the format field from DVD to unbordered
     
Kickaha
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Jun 1, 2008, 11:27 PM
 
View shelves by spine.

The cover image view is great, but good god it takes up screen space. I'd love to see shelves that look like my bookshelves - where the spine is visible, not the front face. You could show a *lot* more in the same pixelspace.

The main problem, usually, is being able to distinguish the spines visually. While you don't have the images you can grab from Amazon, you *could* use the colors extracted from the cover, as with the 'color cascade' when the image fills in. You also have the media item height (and maybe width). Add text, and voila - visually distinguishable spines.
     
turtle777
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Jun 2, 2008, 01:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
View shelves by spine.

The cover image view is great, but good god it takes up screen space. I'd love to see shelves that look like my bookshelves - where the spine is visible, not the front face. You could show a *lot* more in the same pixelspace.

The main problem, usually, is being able to distinguish the spines visually. While you don't have the images you can grab from Amazon, you *could* use the colors extracted from the cover, as with the 'color cascade' when the image fills in. You also have the media item height (and maybe width). Add text, and voila - visually distinguishable spines.
I absolutely so no point in doing that. In order to distinguish books, I'd need to blow them up quite big. Plus, how exactly is DL supposed to guess the text font, color and location on the spine ? The result of your "idea" is a bunch of generic spine covers.

Sorry, but this idea fails.

-t
     
Bastich
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Jun 2, 2008, 03:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by rodman109110 View Post
for boxsets change the format field from DVD to unbordered
Cool. Had to experiment with the file type a bit (transparent 64-bit PNG = odd results), but it will have to do!

Thanks,
     
lankynibbs
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Jun 2, 2008, 04:44 PM
 
The "view by spine" option could be very useful if implemented properly (whatever "properly" means, LOL). Maybe a little black rectangle somewhere to click on.... Good idea, Kickaha.

Not enough room on the spine? Nah, books would have a "displayed width" minimum, just like there's a "displayed size maximum" in the current shelf view. With auto filling/blurring of the background (new image field, or taken from a strip of the main image), and about 20 characters or so (??) of readable vertical text, properly anti-aliased, and with hight and (if not exceeding minimum), width, matching the actual book dimentions, that could be VERY readable, and SERIOUSLY compact.

Maybe clicking on a single book would rotate the book, or quicklook it, to show the cover.

Zooming out would affect readability, but that already happens in the current model, so....

By the way, I LOVE DL, and I love the (less space-efficient but very beautiful and FUNCTIONAL) "display shelf" model that DL uses now. Love it. So don't flame me. Love it.

Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
View shelves by spine.

The cover image view is great, but good god it takes up screen space. I'd love to see shelves that look like my bookshelves - where the spine is visible, not the front face. You could show a *lot* more in the same pixelspace.

The main problem, usually, is being able to distinguish the spines visually. While you don't have the images you can grab from Amazon, you *could* use the colors extracted from the cover, as with the 'color cascade' when the image fills in. You also have the media item height (and maybe width). Add text, and voila - visually distinguishable spines.
( Last edited by lankynibbs; Jun 2, 2008 at 04:56 PM. )
     
CaptainHaddock
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Jun 3, 2008, 03:01 AM
 
It would be nice if DL was more robust at parsing and harmonizing the data taken from the various Amazons. I know a lot of items on Amazon have information filled in inconsistently, but some smarter parsing rules could solve that.

Additionally, DL needs a much better way of editing data. For example, I should be able to create a genre keyword and just drag it onto a pile of books (a la Aperture) instead of having to edit each book individually.

Thirdly, DL needs much smarter sorting. I haven't found a single useful sort method for my book collection, since all the options available have flaws or bugs. On top of that, you should be able to define sorting "equivalents" and hierarchical sort criteria. (e.g. if I sort by language, please let me sub-sort by author and sub-sub-sort by series).
     
turtle777
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Jun 3, 2008, 10:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock View Post
Thirdly, DL needs much smarter sorting. I haven't found a single useful sort method for my book collection, since all the options available have flaws or bugs. On top of that, you should be able to define sorting "equivalents" and hierarchical sort criteria. (e.g. if I sort by language, please let me sub-sort by author and sub-sub-sort by series).
The most useful for me is sorting by Library of Congress Call Numbers. This works only for US books though.

-t
     
Kickaha
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Jun 4, 2008, 10:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I absolutely so no point in doing that. In order to distinguish books, I'd need to blow them up quite big. Plus, how exactly is DL supposed to guess the text font, color and location on the spine ? The result of your "idea" is a bunch of generic spine covers.

Sorry, but this idea fails.
Until you try mocking it up, you might want to withhold that judgement.

Personally, when I look at my physical bookshelves, I don't read the titles to find a volume, I look at the color, height, and thickness of the book first. Those are the distinguishing features for homing in quickly... and except for book thickness, data I know DL has. Display title on rollover, if need be, but it's far from useless or impossible.

Stand back a few feet from your bookshelf, so that you can't make out text, and see if you can still find a book quickly. My bet is you can. That's about the same level of detail and resolution I'm envisioning.
     
turtle777
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Jun 4, 2008, 11:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
Display title on rollover, if need be, but it's far from useless or impossible.
That's the greatest non-sense if have heard this week.

How the hell is displaying just the spin in conjunction with showing the cover on rollover (of friggin' rollover - are you kidding me!!1!1) ANY BETTER than just showing the darn covers like DL already does ?

-t
     
Kickaha
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Jun 4, 2008, 11:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
That's the greatest non-sense if have heard this week.
*laugh* Whatever, man.

How the hell is displaying just the spin in conjunction with showing the cover on rollover (of friggin' rollover - are you kidding me!!1!1) ANY BETTER than just showing the darn covers like DL already does ?
Faster, for one thing. Many more items can be displayed on a screen for another. I'm sorry you're limited to having to read the titles individually to find a book on the shelf - that must be agonizingly slow. It explains your high levels of frustration coming through in your inability to communicate clearly. Might I recommend some soothing yoga or meditation?
     
turtle777
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Jun 4, 2008, 11:26 PM
 
How is a rollover over generically generated spins faster and better than looking at the actual front covers ?

Your idea fails. Accept it.

-t
     
Kickaha
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Jun 4, 2008, 11:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
How is a rollover over generically generated spins faster and better than looking at the actual front covers ?

Your idea fails. Accept it.
First off, they're called 'spines', not 'spins'. That's two posts in a row you've screwed that up in, so I'm assuming it's not just a simple typo.

Secondly, you're not listening - you can display many more spines on a screen than covers. The human eye is remarkably good at rapid visual (not textual, but shape/color) determination and identification. When you scan across a physical bookshelf to find a book, you're not reading titles, you're looking at essentially simple pictures: color blocks of a certain width and height.

Rendering color blocks of a correct height (and possibly width) is going to be quite a bit faster than rendering cover images. You can display many more such spine representations on a screen at a time than covers. The human recognition system is great at homing in those colored blocks. If it weren't, we'd all turn out books face out on the shelves. The end result is that you can scan 5-10 times as many items at once, and the rendering (ie scrolling) is faster to boot. And you think that can't possibly be faster?

I can only assume that you are neither a computer science researcher, nor have a background in visual and cognitive systems research. I am, and I do.

Sorry if it doesn't meet your criteria for ZOMG IT'S SEW KEWL, but it's solid cognitive and computer science. I don't believe the failure here is mine.
     
turtle777
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Jun 5, 2008, 02:21 AM
 
Thanks for playing.

NEXT.

-t
     
DeliciousTerry
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Jun 5, 2008, 06:00 AM
 
Actually we've thought a lot about the 'Spine View' idea. The eye is suprisingly proficient at locating familiar items based on color and shape--and we do already have the color and dimensions at our fingertips. Not to mention, it would just look cool in that sort of view.

In addition, we're thinking about adding a 'Back View', so you can flip the books over and read the synopsis--especially useful if you're browsing a friend's library via Bonjour or the web.

As far as wishlists go, we've had them on the list forever, but really needed to get some of the major features out of the way first--like sharing, web publishing, and re-writing the whole damn program so it runs much faster! Don't worry though, we haven't forgotten about them.

Once I get caught up with the 2300 emails I have to answer, maybe I'll make a quick mock-up of what a Spine-view would look like, and see if any of you think it would be useful.

-Terry
     
MDNZ
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Jun 5, 2008, 06:44 AM
 
Great Terry... hopefully we can also keep this thread filled with new ideas for point releases prior to next major release.
     
turtle777
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Jun 5, 2008, 11:36 AM
 
Could you FIX the current issues first before implementing new eye candy ?
The vast majority of the users think that DL2 is not mature yet. (see poll in this forum).

E.g. having the Details pan on the side rather than the bottom is 1000 times more useful than any spine or back cover view.

Please don't keep adding stuff just to fill the feature list, w/o making the product what it promised to be in the first place.

-t
     
DeliciousTerry
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Jun 5, 2008, 06:15 PM
 
Turtle,

I can assure you we're aware of people's opinions of version 2 and we're working constantly on fixing the bugs. Between the release of version 1 and version 2 there were hundreds of bug fixes and feature implementations. No one noticed because we didn't charge for those updates--but that doesn't mean we didn't do anything for three years.

As far as the Details panel is concerned, we consulted with the Apple-team's lead UI designer--Mike Matas (sound familiar) and putting that panel on the bottom was his firm suggestion--modeled after the new Apple UI standard. I understand there's an overwhelming lack of support for this change, and who knows, we may change it back--but for now, that's where it is.

Off on a tangent, we'll be releasing a patch beta tonight in this forum with some fixes for v2.

-Terry
( Last edited by DeliciousTerry; Jun 5, 2008 at 06:15 PM. Reason: typo)
     
Protoplasm
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Jun 5, 2008, 06:40 PM
 
I've read snippets from Wil that alluded to Mike Matas being the one pimping the whole Details Pane Bottom™ but part of me is all "was it really Mike Matas' idea?!" and/or "was that really what he had in mind, though."

I, a simpleton, use the program and I want to change that Details pane so badly. I'd prefer a pop-up that I could locate wherever on my screen, but I'd compromise on a right-hand pane. But that doesn't mean there's something inherently wrong with having the details bar at the bottom, it's just a "I don't like it how it is."

I have already written about how the Details pane could be more intelligent, and I wonder if we're getting the full story here? Not to mention how you say it's the new Apple UI standard. Got any references for that standard? I can't see it reflected in any Apple apps I'm running, but my missing the obvious would not be newsworthy.

EDIT: And are you saying the whole source selection stuff is an Apple UI standard (I'm referring to how, in DL2, you can click "LIBRARY" in the source list to show the contents of its children)?
     
turtle777
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Jun 5, 2008, 07:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by DeliciousTerry View Post
Off on a tangent, we'll be releasing a patch beta tonight in this forum with some fixes for v2.

-Terry
Great

Think for listening to our whining

That's what you get for taking our money

-t
     
MDNZ
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Jun 5, 2008, 10:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Think for listening to our whining
That's what you get for taking our money

Please consider the rest of us, we didn't take your money.
     
turtle777
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Jun 6, 2008, 12:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by MDNZ View Post

Please consider the rest of us, we didn't take your money.
Oh shuddup already.

How much money do you want ?

-t
     
MDNZ
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Jun 6, 2008, 12:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Oh shuddup already.
How much money do you want ?
Can you take Larry with you?
     
Bastich
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Jun 6, 2008, 03:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Protoplasm View Post
I've read snippets from Wil that alluded to Mike Matas being the one pimping the whole Details Pane Bottom™ but part of me is all "was it really Mike Matas' idea?!" and/or "was that really what he had in mind, though."
I wonder about this too. On a 24" monitor, this creates a synopsis with lines of type well over a foot long. That's a big no-no in print and web design, as it's hard for the eye to keep its place during line jumps. I would expect better from even such a young interface designer.

Originally Posted by MDNZ View Post

Please consider the rest of us, we didn't take your money.
LOL!
     
CaptainHaddock
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Jun 7, 2008, 08:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Bastich View Post
I wonder about this too. On a 24" monitor, this creates a synopsis with lines of type well over a foot long.
Mine too. Impossible to read. Ah well, at a two-foot long line of small text is better than a book which refuses to download its synopsis from Amazon at all (which is the case for half my books, even though their Amazon pages have synopses if I go look manually).
     
 
   
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